I just reacted, responded to the beating around the bush, the BS, the
hype, the not getting right to telling it like it is about particular
important details.
Well now it should be clear to those keeping up, keeping track that
it won't deliver 30-35 "good shots" or what knowledgable PCP guys
would consider "sweet spot" or really good shots. Nor will the .22
version/model deliver around 23 FPE each shot for a number of shots -
that was total nonsense or rubbish. Also it will take more than one
hand pump stroke per shot to refill/top off - not a crime but it kinda
stinks to say it's so when it ain't.
This new factory Cr 17/2260 PCP conversion gun may turn out to be ok
as is or may be ok to kinda nice after tweaks, tuning, aftermarket parts
and mods.
Damn a lot of airgunners get wild and crazy at times and let the child
ego state completely take over, control them.
Some guys have been so traumatised by springers that they are ever ready
to spring, jump in any direction seeking salvation, relief from suffering.
Looks like the Disco might be ok or so - especially after some pro or
knowlegable prep. So maybe a fella will have $300-$400 or so total spent
on the gun. That's not to bad. Still less than the price of most other low
end PCPs.
So do the dance, do the Disco and let us all know how it feels
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." Herb, thanks for keeping this alive. Now, I am really getting interested. It appears Shakespeare was right on the money!
Wouldn't matter whether I existed/posted anything....
January 22 2008, 11:47 AM
in the "airgun forums world" or not. Crosman will still sell a goo-gob
of Discos and I figure about 5,6 months from now a fella will be able
to buy one used for maybe $150-$200. Probably be all over the classifieds
like that IZH DROZD use to be.
The lower pressure and dual (CO2 and air) thang sure ain't new. Single
shot ain't new. Cheap ain't new. False claims, hype, etc. ain't new.
Knowledgable guys - guys that know better not speaking up in the "airgun
world" ain't new.
Man I'm going to keep quiet when Gamo introduces the Gamo Super Supreme
Extreme PCP! LOL
Talking Heads Lyrics - Life During Wartime Lyrics.
"This ain't no party, this ain't no disco,
this ain't no fooling around
No time for dancing, or lovey dovey,
I ain't got time for that now"
Hum! Herb you're killing me! Your comment "goo-gob
of Discos" is great! I'am going to send this to Crosman! Take the lyrics of the great Talings Heads song as a them to Crosmans new "Discovery"! Just change the lyrics a little.
This ain't no party, this is a new Disco
this ain't no fooling around
no time for dancin, or lovey dovey,
I ain't got time for that now.
Got to go shooting, got to go shooting
got to go shooting my Disco all around town
Herb! your a marketing genius! I love it! 'THE DISCO" GOT DISCO?
Who has a disco, when ya gonna get yours?
Dave@Vabch
Herb, do you realize that you may inadvertently coined a new phrase in America? Disco, pcp!
but the blueing looks horrible in those pics on the American airgun hunter. There seems to be blemishes and different shades black/blue/gray.. Look at the trigger guard up close too. Looks rough.. Unless it's the low rese pics.. don't know.
Well at least we know this is a 20FPE gun with CP's and JSB exacts, not a 23FPE one, which is clear from the 20-shot strings he did through the chrony. I don't know why in one sentence he says the gun achieves mid-800's with mid-weight pellets, when his chrony shows 14.3 CP's and 14.5 Superdomes averaging 800-805. There were only 3-4 shots in the 820's with CP's. Then in his final review he says this is at least a 17FPE gun.. (?) Go figure.
We also know you get around 20 shots at peak power, not 30 or 35. So at least we do know a few important things.
Holy, Moses Harry, the Blueing? The whole damn picture is grainy and terrible! The clothes the woods, the gun stock! Just curious Harry, What gun do you want do compare this rifle to? Seriously, I really am confused as what gun you two guys think this gun should stand next to. I guess if it does not shoot as the most powerful PCP in the world than it is a utter failure right? Another question Harry. If a 177.cal does not claim to be at least a 1000 fps rifle, then is it a failure? A bogus gun? I think you and Herb have let us all know that you two will not be buying this gun. Thats fine. Welcome to America the country where we can all make choices. I guess we are really taking these two reviews and putting them on the stand and scrutinizing every word and phrase that these guys make. Boy, they have a tough job. These guys also did a review on the 350 I believe. What did you find flawed about there reviews? How about we just wait and judge the "Bluing" when we actually see the rifle? That way we can make a honest judgment.
The reviews so far are with pre-production guns. Even with that, I find the numbers thus far encouraging. No, I wasn't expecting 900 fps for 35 shots. I was expecting a solid 800 for 25 or so throws with the same or slightly higher number of pumps. 800 fps with no recoil and an effort of one pump per shot. Hmmm. I think I could hit something with that.
I'm not expecting the gun to have the fit and finish of say an FX. But I'm not expecting a dog either. Realistic expectations generally don't dissappoint. But I'm a glass half-full guy.
"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."
people to buy the gun and say exactly what they think of the gun. how they mod it and peaks and valleys of performance from the owners that have paid $$ for their gun not reviews from people that got the prototype
lets wait and see, I wiil be looking for what you do to the Disco and following people like you. at the end of the trail of this gun some good things are going to happen and some not so good
but there is potential in this platform a whole lot of potential for @ $250.00 entry PCP that shoots mid 800 FPS in .22 with 25 shoots
warren
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
I never said I 'd never buy this gun. I 'm glad it's the grainy low res pics and not the gun itself. I will most likely purchase this gun once it's mass produced and people are happy with its reliability, very few QC problems, etc.
I never saw their 350 review on the airgun hunting site. Now you got me curious
I could have gone rws 350,300r or something like that for less money. I expect a gun im going to like alot and keep. You are very right there's no way one pump one shot i dont belive it maybe 2 pumps 1.5 but one lol im doing simple math in my head and cant be done. I may just keep open sights but if the gun is anything like other pcps then might be needed for long shooting. I personaly dislike co2 powered guns owned a few in my childhood and tossed them away, one daisy bb gun. One reason why rws 850 isnt on my list. Im pro discovery and expect .22cal value around $250 for the gun maybe go up if they sell out.
Ever tried walking up a steep rocky mountain slope rws34 scoped and ready. That ten pounds starts to feel real heavy. I do love my rws 34 the blueing,stock,action,pwr,accuracy so great. Was a love and hate relationship untill i received my gamo 440 i rated my gun a perfect 5 stars, gamo 4 stars. RWS had the gamo at every level. DISCO IS A KEEPER
This ain't no party, this is a new Disco
this ain't no fooling around
no time for dancin, or lovey dovey,
I ain't got time for that now.
Got to go shooting, got to go shooting
got to go shooting my Disco all around town
I've carried the 34 for a long ways in the woods. I have not even tried the 460. on a hike. It will remain as a long range sniper gun. The new 22.cal Disco would be a Hunters dream!
Herb, you did great with the "Disco" name, and I actually talked to the Crosman marketing team about your recommendations about the name for future commercials for this great new gun. But it appears you are running out of steam.
Flash! you need to be in the commercial! Geritol does nothing for ya, but someone hands you a new Disco, and you start doing break dancing! AND SINGING AIRBETHERE!
Randy Mitchell rates the Disco 8+ to 9 in sporter/hunter PCP
catagory - 10 being perfect. I guess Falcons, HWs, AAs, Theobens,
etc. surely rate 12 to 20 on a scale of 1 to 10! LOL
Jim Chapman says the hand pump is on par with a Hill hand pump.
Also says it takes 100 pumps to fill the Disco from empty to full
or 2000 psi and 50 pumps to top off after 35 shots. Heck ya only
get 20ish good shots or what most knowledgable PCP guys would
consider good shots for hunting and target shooting beyond 10 yds.
Also what happened to one pump per one shot? On par with a Hill
hand pump - ain't that sumthun! LOL
Hard keepin' up with the ever changing details! LOL
read it at Mitchell's Airgun Hunter Forum. I try to keep up
and put the pieces of the puzzle together. So far it's like
someone mixed up a bunch of different puzzles and put 'em
all in one box! LOL
Next time I need advice or opinions, I'll just pm you instead of lurking on these forums. Give it a rest - this is getting tiresome.
We all know how you feel about this particular gun. We get it OK? You don't much care for it and you think it's over hyped. Let it rest for Pete's sake.
You're looking to find any discrepancies in what was stated early on about this gun, before it was even in the hands of testers, much less the general public. Results are just now starting to trickle in and I'd hardly call what's there a consensus. You just seem to get your rocks off making stupid comments and looking for a reaction. That's the reason you were banned from certain forums (yes I know, the Crosman ban was self imposed. Blah, blah, blah, blah). I think what irritates folks most though, is your pompus attitude that you and only you are plugged into reality and know what's best for everyone.
Now I apologize for this rant. I am sorry I responded because I told myself long ago that the best way to deal with your antics was to ignore your comments. But I'm really tired of them. Go shoot your guns, for they are truly the best ever made or you wouldn't own them. Leve the rest of us alone to talk about inferior weapons. You must be a real peach to live with.
"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."
Crosman's advertisements/hype but when guys like Jim C., Tom G.
and Randy M. with the actual guns/pumps in their posession don't
come clean it kinda bugs me. A lot of guys pay attention to those
guys.
The gun is probably ok - maybe even fairly decent with some work,
mods, aftermarket parts. Maybe still a fairly good deal.
The gun isn't even in the public's hands yet. .177s are shipping as we speak. We'll soon have a wealth of info on which to pass judgement.
Sorry for the rant Herb. There's lots of guns I don't own or wouldn't think of owning but some folks do and like them. Got to be careful about poling fun about a person's purchase decisions.
"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."
my Crosman Forum self-imposed ban to respond to Steve's
"trigger post".
Wonder if I'll be allowed back into the Yellow Forum
since it appears I was pretty much right about Russ
Best a couple of years ago? Such a loooooong ban for
briefly stating facts on the BOI.
even though sooooo many guys trash talk Gamo. I'd never owned a
Gamo although I had shot/used one some back in the mid 70s. My
bro-in-law at the time ordered one from Beeman. That rifle seemed
pretty decent to me back then.
My Gamo is the Hunter Elite - looks like the "Baby Extreme". Shoots
CPLs at 900 fps MV and quite accurately when I do my part. Not bad
at all overall when I think back and compare it in my mind to the
Marksman 70 series .20 rifle I once owned. Marksman 70 is HW and
pretty much a R9/HW95 Deluxe.
Just read Randy M.'s Benji Disco .177 prototype...
February 4 2008, 8:27 AM
review over at the Crosman Forum. Dang a 150 fps spread over
20 shots, 12ish FPE and capable of just under an 1" at 20 yds.
That's with Crosman 7.9 gr. ammo. and 2000 psi fill. Ain't
that sumthun?! LOL
That scott dood has an agenda no doubt, there so pro chinese guns i cant belive it. Any story or evidence otherwise you get banned asap. Also i think all this hype about tunning is to make money, i surely didnt fall for it. Buy a b-26 $130 have it tunned $60 now your up to RWS na i will go deuchland thanks.g
The most knowing-all expert on airguns there ever was. For someone who wants nothing to do with one, you sure are watching intently Herb. Just looking for data to back you up so you can say, "told you so."
Time to get a new spoapbox - this one's getting old.
the Crosman Forum would have spoke up when I spoke up and
stated the truth a couple of weeks ago that would have
been the end of it. They knew I was right and I knew I was
right. They sure began to stink when I realised why they
were keeping quiet or more or less hinting to me to zip it.
They were as stinky as the first reviewers!
12fpe & 1" groups?
My 850 .22 shoots 12fpe (bone stock) and 0.25" CTS at 20yds!
I hope that guy can't shoot well or that his Disco might have something wrong with it. Otherwise a lot of people will be disappointed when theirs comes in..
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
Various Crosman CO2 & Pump
< Marksman 70 is HW and pretty much a R9/HW95 Deluxe.>
The Marksman model 70 (Model 72 in .20 cal. if you want to get picky) was produced by BSF for Marksman at least initially IIRC. It was a wise marketing move by Marksman at the time as the M-70 was arguably as good as the FWB-124/127 which was THE European sproinger of the day. If you paid attention to Rob't. Beeman.;^)
I had both and to my own mind the M-70 was a better gun from a practical standpoint though not in the same league as the FWB insofar as appearance was concerned. The BSF trigger was more tuneable than the FWB with less effort for one thing. Power was very nearly identical with a distinct edge going to my BSF .20 over the FWB .177 and, in the case of the 2 guns I had, the BSF was less pellet and hold sensitive with a superior let-off and therefore more accurate in MY hands.
After Weirauch picked up the remains of the bankrupt BSF they did incorporate major design elements of the BSF Model 55/70 into several guns including the R-9. In point of fact I have always suspected that the MAIN reason Weirauch bought the bones of BSF was to gain rights to the 55/70 which at the time was the most powerful production spoinger on the market. It put them into the magnum end of the market at a time when they had nothing competitive in their own line. That it would soon be supplanted at the top of the magnum class by the R-1 was hardly in their awareness since Rob't. Beeman fathered the R-1 insofar as the intellectual provenance is concerned.
Factual misstatements are Hell on credibility. Just ask me---I get caught all the time.;^) Tom
After returning for the bowells of hell,(the crosman forum). It appears Diso has thrown his pipe overboard and issued a gold doubloon to anyone that can bring down the Discovery!
"From hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. Ye damned Discovery."
"I'll follow him around the Horn, and around the Norway maelstrom, and around perdition's flames before I give him up."
"Blacksmith, I set ye a task. Take these harpoons and lances. Melt them down. Forge me new weapons that will strike deep and hold fast. But do not douse them in water; they must have a proper baptism. What say ye, all ye men? Will you give as much blood as shall be needed to temper the steel?"
Any body want to take a ride on the Piquod with Captain Disco?
Crosman execs. forum owners and other shills hiding on the grassy knoll, selling all of us dedicated airgunners a load of poop so they can line their pockets. Oooohhhh. Bet they made a fortune off us. Should have listed to Herb. Oh, but wait, we couldn't. He was kicked off the forum.
Time to get back to talking Diana's I expect.
"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."
you are stating facts of past guns with opinions about new guns
apples with apples and oranges with >>>>>>>
just wait until the Disco comes out people and then by it's merits judge it
advance failure does not translate to present success
Crosman has a WINNER in the Disco
just tell me which gun has the potential as the DISCO, name one and this is a first production gun and at this price. can you give ma a gun for $300.00 that does half of what the DISCO can do? NOT and again NOT
just wait until it it is dissected by the PRO's and see what the capabilities are
patience people and wait for the DISCO to fill the full fulfilment of its PROMISE
warren
PS: Don'T even think about a spring rifle doing what the Discovery does. It is a league of its own
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
that Airgun Express was having a final sale on. At the time a number
of old timer and in the know airgunners stated they were pretty much
R9/HW95s - some saying like a R9 Deluxe. Also that they had the HW
Rekord trigger and some BSF parts too. Power levels were pretty much
the same too. Also they look a lot alike. Even Russ Best stated such
things. Yes I know they were 70/71/72 depending on caliber .177-.22.
or Umarex ever visit this forum? I am just curious. I think it would be great to have a rep from Diana visit this forum from time to time to give their input.
My two cents
Martin, GREAT question! I too wonder if they pay ANY attn. to us!! Maybee "acros the pond" they sell the SUPER scope models & send rest to us " dumb Americans"! LOL.!! Seriously, Diana guns are THE BEST! If they would just redesign that scope mount!!!! Come on Diana,, do you ever visit our site? Jeeeeeezzzee! Tim. German quality is awsome,, WHY do you insist on keeping such a "China" scope base?? Come on Diana, You make the finest airguns!,,, You have the $$$$,, Re tool,(not that hard), STOP being SO hard headed! It does NOT WORK,!!! If you need help w/language translation others here can help!! WOW, I fell better! As if I dont have to worry about Warren enough, now the Germans are after me!!!! (Im a dead man!!) Tim.
Even it if it only shoots 20 shots at 17 FPE and takes two pumps per shot to refill,and maybe the bluing is not as good as a German gun/rifle at least it is made in AMERICA with American Pride.
In this day and age Crosman could have sent the job to China and had it done for less than half the cost and double the profit to have it built.
Come-on you guys at least the company is trying to keep some American jobs.To me that is more important than a dog gone air gun.Whether it flys or not I have to give Crosman and Company a big thank you for at least trying to compete with the Chinese invasion of our Made In America jobs.
So what if its not a HW or RWS it is made in good old USA and that is alot more important to me than how many shots it will get or the bluing on the action/barrel.There are many young workers at Crosman working overtime to bring this Discovery(not DISCO)to market,which means new shoes for the kids and a new dress for momma,maybe even catch up on some over due bills like there mortgage.
You have come to a new low on this forum when you can't see past your own pocket books.Its a shame to run a American Company/product and its workers in the ground when the product GOOD or BAD hasn't even hit the market in full.
Go buy another Toyota and a new RWS/HW see what it does for the hurting American Economy/Workers.(NOTHING!!)But they are #1 in all of your eyes.
So Sorry I had to vent my feelings
Robert Schlund Retired UAW
and proud to be American
Robert? I usually try and stick with airguns but this I need to clear up. Buy American whether good or bad? NO! I will buy the better product for my money; if the better product is labeled made in USA, great that's a plus, but if it's not, then oh well. Buy a Toyota you say? I bought one; a 2007 Toyota Tacoma TRD 4x4 and I love it! Since the age of 16 I have owned one AMC Jeep p/u and five Chevy trucks. I finally compared my Chevy Colorado Z71 with the Tacoma; no comparison. I hope to go back to Chevy one day, but for now I love my taco. You say Toyota is foreign. Robert my truck was produced in California, USA. There is another plant in Kentucky and my cousin who just bought a Tundra; well, his truck was made in San Antonio, Tx. And you know, I do believe that those three truck plants employ American Workers. Uh, and who is employed at Umarex, Pyramid Air, etc?
I am in no way knocking Crossman, I think its great what they are doing. I just can't stand when people give bad information. No offense Robert, but I will always put my money where it counts.
Marty. I feel the same way. I usually just walk away when people say buy American, and this usually comes up with cars but airguns should be no exception. Why should I buy a crappy product if I can get a better quality one built elsewhere?
I owned many American cars in the '80's and early '90s. Was in the shop all the time or worked on the cars myself because something would break on them every month or two. Then in the mid-90's I started buying Hondas. They were great. Never saw the inside of a dealer shop. Then in '01 my wife really liked the Ford Explorer so I gave in having heard how much better American cars are nowadays, blah blah.. I know others like the Explorer but ours was a piece of crap! All kinds of electrical problems. Then the valves started tapping & pinging, all kinds of problems. Brakes for some reason needed replacement every year or 12-15k mi., Moldings and weather stripping falling off the car, blown shock absorber, etc. One time we had the windshield wipers come on their own and we couldn't turn them off! I visited some forums and found out that was happening with the Expeditions and Excursions too. The car was haunted! Never again! Who wants to spend half their time in a repair shop?
I went to the NHTSA web site and found out there were a dozen recalls and 400 Technical Service Bulletins on the car! I 'll never buy an American car again. If I do it will probably be a Saturn. The car was a gas guzzler too. I got rid of the Explorer and got her a new '04 Honda CRV EX and she is very happy with it. Much more reliable and knock on wood 45k mi. later, it's on original brakes, orginal everything. Only has had oil & tranny (and Diff.) fluid changes. That's all it needs just like my Civics and Accords. It handles a lot better than the bigger Explorer and gets decent gas mileage - same acceleration too with less HP (less weight). And the best thing, Hondas are >90% made in the US and Canada. I am on my 6th Honda/Acura now. I put 40+k/yr. on my cars but I don't sell my Hondas until they have nearly 200k mi. on them. They run almost like new when I sell them and get 30-40% of what I paid for them with 190, 195k mi. on them! I will let others buy american cars. I gave it a try and it was a slap in the face. I don't buy them because they are cheaper. They are NOT. Japanese cars are no longer cheap and have not been for about 10yrs. They just don't compare to Honda & Toyota in reliability. A Cadillac maybe, but if you compare it to a comparably priced Japanese Acura RL or Lexus 450 (what's the latest model now?), Infiniti, etc. there is no contest.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
Various Crosman CO2 & Pump
I Gave them a call. The reason it is so cheap is it does not come with the pump. AOA says the pumps are made in China and are junk. AOA was able to get the guns without the pumps so you could buy a decent pump and not waste the cash. Anyway, made in USA is not totaly accurate.
AOA knows the pumps are cheap? Interesting. I wonder if they have someone inside crosman because no one has received a pump yet. They must be a super duper special dealer to get the scoop before anyone else. Give me a break.
I don't care if you don't carry a product or you stock something else, but when you bash something just because you don't or won't carry it, you suck. They have their own motives. Maybe they make more margin on a Hill pump?? Hmmmm.
"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."
How would they know about the quality of the pump if they don't even have them in? Noone has them. They just said that to make a sale.
When I called them a few weeks ago inquiring about a BKL 260 mount, they said "oh we just sold the last one an hour ago". I said: "oh really, because I called you a couple of weeks ago and you said you were waiting for a shipment from BKL. Everyone else I called said BKL has not shipped any 260's for over a month!". Then he goes.. "oh maybe it was yesterday or a few days ago, but I know we had one and it's gone". Not a very comfy feeling when I know the guy lied to me right from the start.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
Various Crosman CO2 & Pump
Crosman DICO gives no love (no login) 71.35.211.206
American pride stopped in 70's
February 11 2008, 11:53 PM
Seems everything made 20-60 was great! I just wish the american companys would keep using quality thick brass or bronze. Im all ready thinking of canceling my dico order dico lol,then i thought great im ordering BSA techstar but there no longer made arggg. Wonder if that was english made or similar to tech chinese guns. I gave up on american products except jeeps, forder and chiatrolet making some crap cars. Its like we are forced to buy honda,toyota or spend big bucks bmw.
Could you spend$25k on chev colorado yikes. Im not hating colorado or isuzu pickup infact right now im trying to trade 100k miles 2003 corolla Le for 2008 zero miles isuzu i290 which is the same except comes with alloys,air,extracab standard. I just like that new car smell lol $11k for isuzu im down even though i realise resale is non existent. Cheap and new im down america
