Ok, so I finally got my 460 back from Umarex today and threw it on the chrony.
Here are the numbers: 782/784/782/787/782
Whatever, I will just take it. The gunsmith at Umarex had sent it back saying it was firing in the 860s, ya whatever, maybe with RWS Hobbys.
Can someone recommend a tuner that will power tune a 460 (link and/or phone number)?
Martin,, Big diff. your #s. and Umarex. Your #s. are pretty darn consistant, kinda like a tuned gun. Ive missed some of this post so exuse me for that. Are you shooting at high altitude? At sea level my 54 shoots C.P. 14.3 @ 800-810 (give or take) on most days. I would expect higher fps. from 22/460. Are you shooting straight thru your chrony?? Ie. level w/ no side to side angle?? Fairly bright day?? Exreeme angles thru chrony will give false readings. Up or down angles change mine ALOT! No offense,, you probly know all this,Im just interested. I would expect 22/460 to come close to 350m. fps.,,at least better than my consistant 800-810 w/54.? As Dave asked,,what pells. are you shooting? You obviously know about hobbys,ect.. If my 460 was 22 & shot around 800, was smooth &accurate,I would be happy. Just seems to me 22/460 should be at least mid 800,s?? Closer to 900 would be great! Good luck Martin! Tim.
764ft above sea level. I shooting straight through the chrony with CPs, outside on a sunny day with the screens, about 1 foot from chrony. Always use the same pellet to test (CPs). I bet if I bought some Hobbys I could probably hit 860.
I will speak with the gunsmith next week if I have time. Doesn't matter, I am not sending it back to Umarex again unless they promise me a new gun.
Anyways, I have heard of people claiming that there is a power spring for the gun. Is this true? If it is, can someone give me a name of who might do it?
Thanks for the recommendation. I spoke with Paul this evening. He was very helpful and gave me some good advice and information. I purchased the kit that was recommended on this thread (thanks btw) and notified Paul that I would be sending it to him. I will feel much better and confident once Paul works on it.
Not trying to be a a smart a-double-s but are you sure your crony is correct.I just can't see Umarex lieing to you about there test numbers on your rifle.
Just something to look at besides the rifle.
Martin, Is it accurate?? Even 14.3 C.P @ 783 fps. is 19.47 ft. lbs.! Thats a THUMPPER!! Try your chrony w/ other well known guns w/ most known fps comparisons. may be your chrony. Sorry. Ive been acused of installing Kriptonite batterys in mine!!LOL.!Not trying to be a smart as$, Martin, just tryin to help! Power is GREAT,, Accuracy is better!!! Tim.
I think they just used a Hobby pellet. My chrony has a fresh battery and is very well taken care of, but I will check it against my friends Benji pump.
I think I will just stick with the fact that I just have one of those guns that fires in the 780s and be done with it. Other than that it fires very accurately and smooth. I really like the 460.
Martin.,, Shoot your 460 against your friends "Ben.Sher" (Dan),,You WILL win !! I love Benny Shers. (Dans),,But a Diana wins!! Make shure your friends "Dan" is 22 cal.,, YOU WIN!! LOL.! If you are heads up,, 460 will KILL a Dan. 392 EVERY time!! Your dev. is Soo close! Unless he pumps 20x? You win! Your dev. is the envy of many 460 owners,,, report your accuracy!! Such a miniscule dev. refers to GREAT accuracy!! Not being smart as$ Martin. Tim.
Why go with a power tune if it shoots great? A slow hit is better than a fast miss any day. Sounds like it has nice manners - why mess with it? 780's is nothing to sneeze at. I have a model 35 that is just over 700. Very nice shooting gun - I wouldn't change a thing.
"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."
Bill, Thanks for the "back up"! Numbers seem "light",, But maybee chrony is not syncronized w/ ours! I run mine on "Kryptonite" batts!! LOL.! Standard dev. as posted is the envy of most here! That kind of dev. shurly eqates to unmatched accuracy!! Im watching as Im shure you are too. Tim.
For all we know he lube tuned the thing and tarred the spring. Why rip it out and start over. Sounds like it's just fine to me. Problem is the advertised velocities of 1,200 fps on all the rifles now a days. Everyone wants the speed/power until they get the gun and it won't hold a scope or group worth snot. If you can hit with it, I say keep it.
"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."
Wow! a nice smooth gun like the 460. and one so powerful that his is shooting almost in the 800's! I wonder where it ends. My 460 shoots so smooth that I will not be tuning it for a while. I notice that Macarri has a mod. spring and hi-power spring kit for the 460. When it comes time to tune my 460. I will op to get the mod. The idea of getting this rifle to fire even more smooth than it does now is really exciting. I think if Martin would not worry so much about so much power, he could enjoy his gun and hench life.
Well Martin, like I said, Macarri makes a HI-power spring kit and I know that RICH FROM MICH has tuned them in the past so here is his link. However, I doubt you will be happy, and I think you 460. could very well make some other air gunner happy as a lark! Why not sell it, and just go ahead and invest in a very high power pcp?
but maybe hoping for mid 800s (with CPs)like straightshooters and various other review sites. That seems to be the norm. Heck I was even willing to accept steady 800. But remember before I sent it off to Umarex it began crawling down the chrony down to 740s before I sent it in. Heck, if what I wanted was a mid power springer (not saying this is)then that's what I would have bought. I am curious; how many of you would be happy to drop his money on a 350 and then find that it starts to crawl down the chrony to 740s? Would you just say, hmm it fires straight and that's all that matters? How low would you allow the fps on your gun to drop from the norm before you start to wonder? I have asked this question before but got no answer.
Everyone is getting a little side tracked here except maybe Dave.
Martin's initial post 2-3 weeks ago said his 460 .22 was shooting mid 840's or 850's with CP's through the chrony. He then noticed the velocity dropping to 800fps or below and sent the gun to Umarex. They said they replaced the breech AND piston seals. When he got the gun back it was shooting 780's and then dropped to 740's. 2nd time around they said they found a broken cocking lever. Let me know if got any of the story wrong Martin..
If this is all correct so far, then the only conclusion I can manage to come up with is that the gun is not shooting the way it's supposed to. It's certainly not like before things started going wrong. Now with supposedly new seals and fixed cocking lever it still shoots in the 780's. Why settle for less? Something is definitely wrong and has not been properly addressed by Umarex. It seems they are missing something. I want all my guns to be shooting at 99% or better. Maybe they installed a breech from another Diana model or the piston seal is not 100%. Something is fishy and it is obvious the problem was not corrected. Let not forget the initial problem was power loss. Could it be a bad piston top hat or just a bad piston? It sounds to me like this gun still has a leak somewhere. Even if Martin installs the Maccari 460 Power spring kit he may still get the same results.
Martin:
First thing you need to do is confirm the Chrony is in good working order and has not been mis-calibrated somehow. You have to chrony other guns, or find someone with a chrony to test your gun and see if the #'s match.
I personally would not settle for a 60-70fps drop in velocity. That's 3ft-lbs in a .22 with CP's. Lets not kid ourselves, most people that spend $500 on a 460 don't just buy it because it's a smoother springer but for the power as well. If all they wanted was a smoother Springer they could have bought a Beeman R7 or a 19fpe gas ram RX2, or the popular 17fpe under-lever AA TX200 for only $75 more. No, they chose the 460 for its 22+FPE capabilities as well as its other features.
2nd, once you have validated your chrony's accuracy, you have to decide whether to take this up further with Umarex or RWS, or just send the gun out to a tuner to diagnose it and fix it. Ed K, and Paul Watts can easily find out what is wrong with the gun, but be careful with Paul, he can also take an attitude with you because he 's not a big fan of people that watch the FPS closely or if you strike him as "power hungry". I hear Ed K. is booked for months but call them both and speak to them about it. PW does not respond to e-mail. If you decide to send your gun to one of them, it would not be a bad idea to buy the JM 460 full power kit and send it along with the gun. They won't charge really anything extra to install it because they 're going to have everything apart when they check your gun over anyway. This way you get an even smoother gun back that will help with accuracy and you will enjoy more than before. Here 's the link to Jim Maccari's web site - 460 GRT kit that also comes with custom guides. http://www.airguns.citymax.com/catalog/item/251488/5277553.htm
Good luck
Harry
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
Various Crosman CO2 & Pump
I'm beginning to wonder if the inner diameter of the tube is out of round. Or however you say that. What I'm getting at is, if the piston seal is tight and all the lubes are there, a tube that isn't concentric from one end to the other might be the reason for the slower (and decreasing) velocities. I'm just guessing here but I can't think of another reason a spring piston rifle would be losing velocities on a steady rate unless, as the piston seal were wearing in, it was also no longer riding inside the cylinder straight, thus wearing the piston seal unevenly. Or even forcing the piston to "kink" when it hits that out-of-round section of the inner diameter of the tube.
You're going to get higher velocities when a gun is new as the lubricants burn off (diesel). What you're seeing now is a gun that is shooting where it should. Remember, manufacturers (almost every one of them) tend to state velocities with very light weight pellets because as we all know, velocity numbers sell guns.
I'm aware of the chronology here - I just think the gun sounds just fine now. Obviously a drop in velocity would cause me to worry once a baseline has been established.
"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."
When I initially sent my 460 in it was because it was shooting in the 400s! That's when they replaced piston O ring and breech seal. The rest of the chain of events is correct.
Reading the RWS post, I sure hope this guy at RWS is for real because I just sent him a long email along with this link. If he can't help then I will just puchase that tuner kit and send it off. The only thing that sucks is that one of the tuners was talking about the possibility of waiting months for a completion. There is an airgun club about an hour from where I just moved ( http://www.yeguaairgunclub.com/yeguamain.htm)maybe I can find a reputable tuner there. I could order the kit and have him do it and talk to him face to face, which is what I like.
If this guy does not help, I will get my rifle tuned but I will not let Umarex off that easy. I am going to type up a letter and mail it to the President of Diana Germany (I hope he can read english). If he does nothing then this will be the last Diana product I will ever buy and will let everyone from Umarex, RWS, and Diana.
but once I settle in at my new place I will definately head to the rifle range to see if they have a chrony I could use. If not I could try and chrony my .223 custom ammunition. I had it custom loaded to fire 3200fps.
that 460 cannot shot 40 more FPS after it went to UMAREX, period when it was shooting 840 initially and dropped to 740 and now is 780. you drop from 840 to 780 after going to UMAREX 2 times? GIVE ME A BREAK
how in blazes can they fix a gun and come up with 40 more FPS's after fixed, which by the way is 60 FPS less than new, dieseling? Don't think so, detonation?, again NOT. If those were factors it should shot MORE FPS
HUMMM, something is definitly not right here, what could it be.
UMAREX is the answer, from start to finish
my opinion
warren
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
