I,ve been waiting to get a RWS 460 in 22cal ever since RWS stated talking about them over a year ago.I waited till others bought them and tested them out before ordering one.Most of you have been pretty happy with them except for one guy on the Diana forum who,s sent his back to Umarex a couple times already because of low fps numbers.I asked again last week for 460 owners to tell me what they think about there 460,s and to give there fps numbers in 22cal.Everyone was very happy with theres and most posted fps in the low to mid 800,s.
The Fedex man dropped mine off today and I was very careful unpacking it and inspected it carefully,great condition!Next I fired five Cros. Pre,s through the chrony to test that it cocked and fired properly.Five shots around 760 fps.Next I removed the stock,cleaned and oiled the metal,cleaned the stock and cleaned the barrel until no discolor on the patches.I fired a couple Crow Mags. thru it to help out on the deiseling and then changed back to CP,s.Still hanging in the 760fps area.I mounted my Leapers 6-24x50 scope on it and sighted it in at 25 yards.It grouped well right from the start and seemed to stay there.I continued to plink with it until I fired a little over one hundred rounds.Flawless!
After that I brought it back inside to the chrony,five shots now reveiled 750fps.I cleaned the barrel again because it had been deiseling quite a bit and that took it back up to 760fps.I also tried Beeman FTS,Trophy,s,Gamo Hunters and JSB exacts.No big change in the numbers.
Understand that I,m not depressed with it,s performance but I have a B-30 that does 765fps and a Pro sport that does 725fps.I also know that with further break in the numbers could go up some but,I,m not sure if they,ll climb into the 800 range that I exspected.It,s a great accurate rifle but I guess I wanted to have one great 800 + fps rifle when I paid my $489.00 for it.What do you guys think? Should I continue to work with it or send it back and try again?I have thirty days to decide.Thanks for your help,John
I don't know if they'll let you return it if you took it out of the stock though. I wouldn't worry about the numbers. What you have is a great rifle that's consistant. That's really more important than power if you ask me. Secondly, what's good about power if the rifle is hard to shoot well?
A hundred shots or so is hardly a break in period. If its shooting accurately and consistantly then Umarex USA is going to tell you to keep it even if you think the power is low.
A hard fact:
You already posted here that you took the rifle out of its stock and no matter what you or I or anyone else thinks about the simple, innocent act of cleaning a new rifle by removing it from its stock, they have their own rules about these sorts of things. Which you may or may not have read on the Umarex site.
Enjoy your new 460 I hear they are wonderful air rifles.
on your 460 purchase!!
It's a fine gun, but in your searches, did you read that one 460 can shoot 14.x pellets at 820-830fps, and another at 760-780? I realized the 460 can been incosistent out of the factory a few months ago after people started reporting varying velocities through the chrony. Just look at both 460's that Tom Gaylord tested in his review of a .177 & .22. Both of them were shooting low and barely making 20fpe with most pellets below that. I don't know what the deal is with the 460's.
Also another memeber here, Marty, was getting 840's, had a problem with his 460, returned it to Umarex for repair and now it's shoots like yours in the 700's. I don't know if they are using 2 different springs for the 460, or different seals or pistons or if something is misaligned or out of spec or what, but I do know I 'm seeing incosistent velocity #'s on other forums (and this one) all the time, for at least 3-4 months now.
BTW, dieseling is not caused by some lead in the bore so you don't have to clean it every 100 shots. It is caused by the lube in the compression chamber from the factory.
18.3fpe is pretty low though if you ask me.. and this is supposed to be the 'most powerful RWS model" (after the 350 of course..)? Something is not right. Someone out there must know what's going on.. maybe on the Yellow forum. I 'm sure a good tuner can figure out why some are 20+FPE guns and others whimpy 17-18fpe ones. If we had a way to take a strong 460 apart and compare it to the internals of a "weak" one, we would find out the dropped power.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
and send it to Phil. I spoke with him on the phone about my 460 and he has been seeing the same thing for a while. 860s-low 700s! I am tired of messing with RWS, so I purchased the power spring tuner set and I am sending it to Phil. He is also replacing the breech seal with a better one and will check out the rest of the rifle while he has it apart. No, I do not expect high 800s but anything consistent above 800 would make me a happy owner. Mine is currently firing in the 770s so I have my hopes that the tuner kit can add another 25-50 fps.
I ship it off on Tues and will let everyone know how it performs when I get it back.
BTW, Phil thinks there might be something out of spec on some of the 460s.
in at 940 with .22 RWS Hobbies, 860 with .22 JSB Exact Express and
805 with .22 JSB Exact. Quite 'tight' with variations of usually
4-5 fps. I've put at least 500 pellets through it since purchased
new a few months ago.
No doubt a 'healthy' or undamaged, tuned down 460M would be even
sweeter to shoot but if a fella bought one to be a "big hammer"
in his "toolbox" than he doesn't want to be delivered a "medium
sized hammer". He didn't purchase a Diana 400M - he ordered a
460M! He wants all that 'magnum'!
and was shocked to find only a slight trace of moly on the back edge of the seal where it should be.Not one other drop of lube inside the rifle.No lube on the trigger assembly ,no lube on the spring!The rear guide was still pure white because no moly grease had ever come into contact with it.The spring ends were so rough and chewed it was easy to see that no one ever ran a grinder or a file to them.I lubed it all up and did some polishing on it but it,s still firing between 750 and 760 fps.The piston seal was in good shape but seemed to be a bit undersized.
You've given your airgirl fair treatment . Mid to upper 7's sounds to be a Velvet Hammer to me ...how's she shoot ? May not be what you expected out of the Big460 - but as an owner of one of the few underpowered 350's I can testify that it is a sweet shooter "as-is" . Shoot it awhile now before laying out big power plans.
with the statement about the warranty being voided if you remove the stock.I simply find it hard to believe that they would be that tight about it.I did,nt read the warranty card and I,m glad you brought it to my attention but,it,s probably too late.Any resentment was directed toward Umarex!I apoligize if I offended you.
Another weak 460? Sheesh, and you're near sea level!
I FINALLY got Pyramyd to do something for me after the disasters of TWO RWS 46's in a row with damage INSIDE the foam case, plus barely 500 chrony numbers. They agreed to let me upgrade to a 460 for just a little more money, and this time I insisted that it be shipped in the original box.
If I don't get a good one this time, it's the end of my quest to get a really nice airgun, I'll just go back to a .22 or maybe .17 Mag. Maybe I'll just give up shooting altogether and buy a slingshot.
I never would have believed in my worst nightmare that it could be this difficult to get a relatively accurate and powerful airgun for $500.....now I think that $1500 is a better guess, and even then I have my doubts. That's completely out of my price range. I'm pretty disgusted with the state of affairs in this airgun world. Either the third time's the charm or it's three strikes and I'm out!
John, don't worry about it. I probably got a little fed up with things you had no control over. Like Umarex. I reread their assinine (meant to spell it that way) policy of not selling parts to dealers etc. What a bunch of BS. This distributor arbitrarily decides they're not going to sell parts to guys who've been rebuilding their parent company's wares for nigh on fifty years??? Are they really that stupid? I mean Glen and a few of the people who work there have been absolutely great, but the policy of the higher ups thinking they can soak up all the warrantee work, the repair work and the aftermarket parts network is naive at best. If they don't change their policy they're going to notice shadetree mechanics with simple solutions popping up like mushrooms after the rain. And guess what US distributor will be out of the loop? That's right, Umarex.
I'm pretty sure the people who run the shop down there are doing their utmost to keep things running. They would like to keep their jobs after all. But the fact is, the parent company, Umarex USA wants to control the market as closely as possible. Maybe they have visions of granduer, thinking that if they can control the aftermarket sales and repairs they can stay a little more than soluble. The people whose dip-ass assertion it was to deconstruct an excellent aftermarket network which brought trust to the name Diana are in fact ruining an excellent and established reputation.
If I could I would voice my concerns to Diana that the heads of Umarex are giving her a bad name stateside. You can take the greatest products and if you put them with a very bad distributor you're still going to be hurting from what a crappy middleman can do to your company and reputation. At least when we had RWS as the US arm of Diana, we knew we had a distributor who backed its repair centers and dealers in a real and preferable way.
to get a 460,and it was killing me all the time.I,ve had two 350,s in 22cal,48 in 22cal,54 in 22,46 in 22,24 in 177 and they were all great guns.I watched this forum and only saw one guy having serious issues with a 460.I thought maybe his was just a factory lemon.So today when mine arrived I was so excited!Then I fired it across the chrony and lower # then I exspected.It shoots great but thats not all I bargained for when I bought it.It,s been kind of a frustrating end to a long wait.I have also delt with the guys at Umarex and they,ve treated me great.I just don,t understand that this is the same power supply as the 350 mag but ,theres been so many low fps numbers.I think it,s just time to go to bed and worry about it tomorrow.Thanks for being understanding.I love this addiction and try to never offend anyone who enjoys it!
Paul Watts is believed to be #1 guy in the US as far as tuning business goes. That assumption is made because he is Jim Maccari's biggest customer. You can probably tell by his (high) prices. He doesn't need to be cheap to compete..
He 's been a tuner for a long time. I think Paul is making a pretty comfortable living right now. If he is doing 2 advance tunes per day which start @ $250 each and can go up to 350-400, or only 1 ADV + 1 basic for 5-6 days/wk, and lives in a relatively low cost or rural area, he 's living like a "king"
I hear they are wonderful air rifles.