I was checking to seal if the breech seal was leaking by placeing a tissue over the breech.I had the rear site removed for my scope and the rear site screw holes were open .When I fired the gun the air from the rear most mounting hole came out and tore a small hole through the tissue.I tore the gun down again and placsd a small shim under the breech seal.Now she chrony,s at 850fps with CP,s! I,m so happy now!
Truth is there are a lot of springers/rammers out there that have
breech seal leaks and no doubt more than a few gassers, pumpers
and PCPs. Even brand new guns!
John! You got the hammer Magnum you were hoping for now hey?
I hope you call Umarex and tell them about the breech seal. It looks like Diana is slacking off with QC lately. They must have hired a new person lately.. It 's a little scary knowing some newbie is building our guns or is the new QC guy and is lazy or has no clue how to check them over for leaks and other defects. It would be too easy I guess for them to shoot 1 pellet through a chrony before they box it up..
There is absolutely no excuse for this.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
my seal on my 460 just one month after I had it. Something is going wrong in the production, because my 460 is steadily climbing down again. I am firing in the low 750s.
That's great! I would sure appreciate a little more detail because I can't find a schematic of the 460 yet. Isn't the rear site hole a few inches forward of the breech seal? So the escaping air travels forward and if the holes are plugged, which is normal, it just isn't noticeable?
Details of shim material and thickness would also be great.
Wouldn't it be great if all the RWS problems were this easy to fix.
It has recently become obvious to me that I'm going to have to learn how to disassemble, lube, and maybe replace springs, guides, and seals in my Diana at some point (maybe right out of the box!). Living out in the sticks it's just too much of a hassle shipping the gun off to whomever for whatever. Right now, the only good disassembly/tune instructions I've seen are for a 48/52 by Scot Heath over on comcast.net. Any one willing to comment on whether these are good enough for a 460, which should be simpler for just piston/spring/seal disassembly...do you have to remove the cocking lever or linkage just to check seals and lube?
If the breech seal(which is the seal in the piston that comes foward and cover the pellet loading port)does,nt smash well enough between the piston and the loading port air will leak out into the chamber when fired.If it leaks into the chamber there is a small gap between the barrel shroud and the barrel and if the screws for the rear site are removed the air will burst out of there also.When I installed the site screw again it made more air push out around the chamber and was much more noticable.By taking the gun apart and installing a small(two thousands washer) under the breech seal it smashes the breech seal harder into the loading port and making a air tight seal.My rifle is now firing at a steady 850fps and feels completely different when fired.
I did call Umarex today and asked if they had any suggestions on how to fix these slow 460,s.After waiting ten minutes on hold while he talked to the gunsmith I was told to send it to them and they,d look at it.I was,nt ready to do that since I had already had it torn down last night and polished and properly lubed it.I Know they would have noticed the difference when they opened mine up ,and that would have voided the warranty for sure.I don,t blame the guys at Umarex for this it,s a matter of quality control and the depth that the factory is cutting the breech port.If the guys at Umarex install a new breech seal and it will fire strong for a few shots,but eventually the leak will become larger until it serves no purpose.Marty your 460 is giving you the same fps numbers mine gave me!Probably the same problem.
As far as a assembly breakdown goes I don,t now of one.I,ve been inside enough airguns to feel my way through.It,s not that difficult a rifle to disassemble if you know what not to touch.I hope this helps!
I am doing my Tx200 Mk3 with JM's Deluxe Survival kit. Its the BOMB worth every 0.01 and then some. The kit fixes the same type of problems you fixed on your 460 a la cocking shoe (proper fit and size) that does an important role in sealing the breach seal on the barrel on closing the gun.
It is amazing the damage that can come of a gun with sealing issues besides just the lower MV you saw. Like 1. Breaking Scopes and Mounts!!! Bad groups, low velocity, loosenes screws, lowers life of springs, and on and on. The nature of loosing seal and gas escape is this. Energy is not transferred to the pellet and therefore is left over to slam the piston in the bottom of the compression chamber turning the gun into a pneumatic hammer.
Bad sealing can come from many directions as in the piston seal, breach seal and with under or side levers you can see other areas as well.
If you are breaking scopes it doesn't mean that you only need to shoot the gun in to smooth it out if in fact the gun has a sealing issue. I went into the breach seal a day or so back but one could discuss piston seals in depth as well. Maybe another day.
Nice close #s on the chrony too, only a 9 FPS spred. Yep It looks like you fixed her. I have one of these junk 460s also. And my underlevers sloppy and breach closes completely with no seal seating feeling. Shoots wild and slow. I bet the same darn things wrong with mine. I am a little apprehesive about digging into her. Not quite sure where to start on getting her apart. I wish I knew where to get some clear direction on the task. How could RWS put out such a malajusted piece a crap and then not make a schematic available to fix it ?
I didn't do too well when I took my first aircraft engine apart 30 years ago, but I'm a quick learner....two or three ruined airguns and a couple of missing digits and I'll have it down pat!
There were this many bad 460,s out there before mine.I knew about Martys but that was it.If I had known I probably would,nt have bought one.
I hear you all wanting to get your guns up to par and I wish I could come to your houses and show you how to take her apart and fix it.I live in PA. If any of you guys with slow 460,s want to send them to me to look at I gladly would.It,ll probably cost you $20.00 shipping but thats the same it would cost to ship to Umarex.If I can,t get it work it won,t cost you anything.Email if your interested,Thanks john
I,ve tuned alot of Beemans,Air Arms,many Chinese(B-40,B-30,B-3)Baikil,Crosmans.Mostly for myself,friends and a few guys from my sportsmans club.Oh I almost forgot about the three RWS-350 mags,46 and two 48,s.I,ve added alot of JM kits and seals.My biggest hold back from getting to involved has been the lack of a lathe but my brother has one and is a machinest.I also have a fulltime job but I do all my airgun work at night.If you want to check my background go to the Yellow Forum BIO and do a search for John Thomas.I have about fifteen + posts.I could polish the internals,Hopefully fix the low FPS problem and lube tune everything properly.Email me and we,ll talk!
This is Great news! I see greqat things in your fuuuutuuuuuurrrreeeeeee.... lol. Like tag teaming the newbies with Rick et al when they need something you've already seen.
John and if there is somthing you need made you cant get let me no, im a tool maker with a full shop.
all i need is a hand drawing (id) (od) so on tool st and rookwell. would like to help get these guns fixed. also maint craftsman. new to air guns but learn quick.
How about instead of coming to my house I come to yours so you can show me?
The JM spring is sitting here staring at me and my 350 is itching to be opened up but I don't want to do anything stupid or break it since I 've never been inside a springer before.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
John if you can draw it i can make it. I have many kinds of wear resistant nylon, brass,oil impregnanted brass. Its hard to draw in 3D Give me end veiw side veiw so on. Or send me one like you want, say old one out of gun and add what you would like to add or take away. I can hold .0002TH depends on mat.
One thing doing this is, helps with any dif in what you are using to get your size. If it takes a time or two to get it right, so what. Small parts by mail is cheap. A little R&D right.
Hea John, Thanks for the offer. I will take you up on that. This thing has got me down right depressed. I live in FL. but am heading up to Ohio in the early spring.I could fashion the whole trip around making it convenient for you. What town do you live in in PA. ? I also would like to watch and/or help you do it. So I don't have to piss and moan about screwed up air guns. I will fix them myself. And maybe pass on the favor to other 460 owners with same junk. And again Thank You
work just the same as putting a washer behind it? I mean I just spent about 75 bucks to have my 460 serviced by Paul but I only got another 10 fps with the Maccari spring. It has to be something else. Paul even replaced the breech seal with one that he made and still 770-780. I am no expert so I would like to know if that would work or would that somehow eventually ruin my 460?
with two breech seals installed.I don,t know what to say about your 460.If Paul could,nt get the FPS up I,m not sure what I,d do next.The good news is that if he just installed a new piston seal from JM with the kit theres a chance that it will climb into the 800,s after break in.I,m not sure if you mentioned anything about a new piston seal.I,d gladly take a look at it for you but ,my god Paul Watts already looked at it and he,s a airgun artist compared to me.I say that with all due respect too him!On the other hamnd mine is still doing 865fps with CP,s and it is,nt deiseling anymore.
I live about 75 or less miles above you in Dunnellon,FL. . About 22 miles west of Ocala. What is your interest in airguns again ? Target,hunting or plinking
Warren is a cold blooded killer. He 'll shoot at anything that moves so don't turn your back on him!
Just kidding! Warren's 88yr old neighbor keeps him in line and doesn't let him shoot anything except for crows. I think you 'll be safe
Well then again you might want to ask for the old man to accompany Warren because he seems to behave around him
Warren:
"who loves ya baby?"
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
Im trying to get him to come up to Dunnellon to shoot some on my own private little range. I will go out and take a measure to tell you what the max. is. Sometmes a crow or a jay drops his gaurd and looses his life around here. I got two yesterday (Jays). We do jays because they wake everyone up way to early ,also will fly ahead of you warning squerrals of your presents in the woods. And last but not least I have been told they are in the crow family.
Ssshhhhhhhh.....Jay's are protected......(I believe, under the songbird law...not that anyone in his right mind would say the Jay's
call is a song) Big Brother..., etc.
As far as I know only these species are not federally protected.
CFR 21.43:
"A Federal permit shall not be required to control yellow-headed
red- winged, rusty, and Brewer's blackbirds, cowbirds,
all grackles, crows, and magpies, when found committing
or about to commit depredations upon ornamental or shade
trees, agricultural crops, livestock, or wildlife...."
This does vary by state, as well..... English sparrows and feral pidgeons are not listed in this section, but I'm pretty sure
they are not protected, at least in Idaho. I've had considerable
difficulty finding the real legal status of some species,
so "Don't ask, don't tell, if you are not already absolutely sure"
may be the watchword.
The only UNPROTECTED birds in US an Canada are the English Sparrow, the European Starling, and the Rock Dove (city pidgeon).
The corvids Duncan listed can be controlled as varmints, if and only if they're causing damage. Otherwise, they gotta be hunted in season, with a license in most jurisdictions. Same for squirrels!
Thanks, Jason, for the clarification on CFR 21.43.
Of course, in the end it depends on the interpretation by the
local fish and game warden...even if you are correct it's never fun
to have to deal with a citation and it's aftermath.
Thus I have decided never to post any actual kills, even if strictly
legal, on this or any other forum.
trigger happy, sorry just happy trigger, DAMM got it all wrong, just trigger
Harry talks about the Crows but when they are in season, Harry thinks the Cows are in season all year long but do not listen to him they are NOT. Squirrel's, yes they have a season, rabbits another big YES also season hunting in some States
Rats not in season and you do not need a permit
don't get caught by a Ranger without a permit or shooting out of season, better RUN a red light and have the judge impose a fine
paper J. Avery, shoot paper targets, nice safe and clean LOL
warren
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
