After reading your posts about .177 and .22 hollow points and wound channels I would like to know if any of you have tried the the JSB Predator pellets.I have some in both calibers but have yet to use them on small game.The .177 weigh 8.2 gr.and the .22 weigh in at 16.5 gr.It seems by design and added weight they would be a very nice pellet with little or no parachute or waver effect.
Just wondering if anyone has a small review they could give on these pellets.
I hear they 're pretty good for hunting but too expensive so I haven't bought any since the CP's, Crow Magnums and Kodiaks have worked very well for me so far at distances up to 45yds (except for Crows, haven't not used them past ~32yds). A lot of guys use them religiously for hunting on the GTA hunting forum.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
I have done a lot of shooting with those two pellets because for hunting the CMs and Pred are my favorite. All the dam problems I had with my fps on my 460 before made it hard to really get consistent results with the CMs, but when my velocities were within 750-850 the CMs opened up tremendously with little penetration. The predators penetrated deeper but did not expand as much as the Crows. My hunting experience has been that for some reason the CMs tend to fly right after 30yds and lose a lot of fpe. It makes a loud thump when hitting crows but anything past 30 yds forget it. Stupid crows just fly off time and time again even though there are black feather falling all over the place. Under 30 (give or take a few yards) and they drop hard. Now the Pred on the other hand are still accurate past 30yds. They don't hit with as hard of a thump but I have taken three squirels now and all have been one shot instant kills to the body. But because they are so expensive,I only use them for fur. Any feathers farther than 30 yards I bust out the RWS Hollow points (they take less energy to expand but don't expand as large as the CMs) or past 35 or so I always use the domed CPs. To date my Pred have a 100% hit-kill success rate. 3 squirels and two grackles.
the Crow Magnums make the loudest THUMP I have ever heard when hitting fur, but if you tried wadcutter or flat pellets you will hear the same "thump". It's because the flatter the nose of the pellet is, the louder the impact, and the CM's are definitely very wide in the front even though they are hollow, not like the CPHP's which are domed and hollow (little tiny hole, I don't consider them HP's really).
Yeah I was amazed I shot a squirrel at 30yds with the CM and the pellet didn't penetrate but he didn't even move. He was gone almost instaneously. Another one I got at ~25yds with the CM, went through and the exit would had probably the most damage I 've seen from a pellet. CM's are excellent within 30yds, no doubt about it, but the PCP guys use them out to 50yds and beyond because they have the power and apparently can get the CM's to be pretty accurate at longer ranges.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
I have read everyones response and #1 Mikes ballistic report concerning my question about the Predator pellets..
In first order I want to thank all of you for so much good information!
I asked this question because I plan to go to a nearby land fill thats loaded with sea gulls.I plan to get myself situated in a woods across the road with many tall trees.The gulls like to feed then roost in the tops of these trees(60 ft or so tall).
I will try both the CW and Predator pellets using a RWS 48 in .22 and the Power Tuned Quest I have built with a L/W .20 cal barrel.My placement in the woods will mean I will have only body shots because I will shooting almost straight up.I also know gulls are hard to kill instantly,so I will have to place my shoots at or near there heart/lungs.
I plan to do a little leaf shooting straight up to improve my shot placement before I even think about trying this.Once I'v mastered this shooting position and can hit my target 9 out of 10 times I'll take my little hunting trip.
It will probably be another month or so before I will be able to go because of Michigan weather.(12Deg.outside right now)
At any rate I will post my experence for you guys to read.If I remember I'll take my camera,and get some pictures from the ground up at some of my targets.There are thousands of gulls in this area and I noticed last year buzzards have moved into the area as well.I never thought I'd see buzzards in MI.
Thank you all
For the Information!!!
BBGub Bob
Bob Schlund
SE MI.
I have read everyones response and #1 Mikes ballistic report concerning my question about the Predator pellets..
In first order I want to thank all of you for so much good information!
I asked this question because I plan to go to a nearby land fill thats loaded with sea gulls.I plan to get myself situated in a woods across the road with many tall trees.The gulls like to feed then roost in the tops of these trees(60 ft or so tall).
I will try both the CM and Predator pellets using a RWS 48 in .22 and the Power Tuned Quest I have built with a L/W .20 cal barrel.My placement in the woods will mean I will have only body shots because I will shooting almost straight up.I also know gulls are hard to kill instantly,so I will have to place my shoots at or near there heart/lungs.
I plan to do a little leaf shooting straight up to improve my shot placement before I even think about trying this.Once I'v mastered this shooting position and can hit my target 9 out of 10 times I'll take my little hunting trip.
It will probably be another month or so before I will be able to go because of Michigan weather.(12Deg.outside right now)
At any rate I will post my experence for you guys to read.If I remember I'll take my camera,and get some pictures from the ground up at some of my targets.There are thousands of gulls in this area and I noticed last year buzzards have moved into the area as well.I never thought I'd see buzzards in MI.
Thank you all
For the Information!!!
BBGub Bob
Bob Schlund
SE MI.
Tom @ Buzzard Bluff (Login TheOldBuzzard) 208.54.200.117
Er----Bob
March 1 2008, 6:41 AM
You do realize that both gulls and buzzards are federally protected species don't you?
Not trying to be a PIA---just don't want to see you arrested and your guns confiscated. Tom
NO!!!! I did not know that either species were protected by law.
Geez,, Thanks a lot you probably saved me a big fine and loss of one of my best rifles.
---virtually all birds are protected these days except for invasive species such as English Sparrows and Starlings. IIRC even they are protected by local ordinances in some areas. The things we did as boys will get you in deep do-do these days if caught. In fact they would have then if federal law had been more widely recognized and enforced. The Federal Songbird Act of 1906 placed many species under federally protected status in response to market hunting excesses that were quickly depleting many species. In the wild game markets of big cities species such a Robins, Meadowlarks and Blackbirds could be legally bought by the bird or by the barrel. The finest restaurants served wild game of all sorts. Blackbird pie was a fact and popular. The Eastern Meadowlark was hunted as an upland gamebird just as Quail and Dove are today. Many species thought of as pests not worthy of protection at the time of the original act have been brought under the umbrella of its' protection in the intervening years until at this juncture almost nothing can be hunted legally unless deemed gamebirds, the hunting of which is rigidly controlled by state and federal law, and the few remaining pest species. Much the same is true of animals---either they are deemed to be game subject to hunting law or they are protected. Again few species are deemed pests subject to no protection.
The ONLY advice I can give of any value at all is to check with your state department of natural resources before pulling the trigger on ANYTHING these days.;o( Tom @ Buzzard Bluff
People seen with guns around roads will usually bring a cop or game warden. Stick with the leaves and be mindful of your backstop/fallout area and you'll be fine.
Hey Harry, I thought we agreed not to publish our latest hunt together? Well at least you "dubbed" in our talk in a differant language, so I guess we are ok! That was great fun Harry & I look forward to visiting you again soon! Seriously Harry, I may be somewhat demented,but that was some funny shi$!! Those guys got balls! Nice find my friend! Tim.
Here's his web site with pics of his custom PCP. Check out the first video (scroll down). He shows how he shoots from inside the car. Nice little compact gun. Easy to hanlde inside the car. Their English translation sucks but I think he 's trying to be philosphical about the whole thing. At one point towards the end of the video it seems like he 's calling himself a "murderer"? Make your own conclusions. They litterally tranlated the Russian words to English and it doesn't make much sense. They even talk about getting caught by the police because you know what they 're doing is illegal. Cool guns in his collection though.
Tim:
I enjoyed that video too. Nothing wrong with that. We are all a little demented in our own way
If you read most of his web site he 's asking to buy JSB's and Beeman Crow Magnums and other pellets from people overseas. I guess they can't buy those over there. Are they in Kazhakstan? The original video says Moscow crow hunting..?
I couldn't sit through that. It's one thing to go hunting but I didn't see much sport there. Particularly liked them stopping up a furnace vent. (Wonder how much that cost the homeowner?) Sorry, but no braggin' rights to those two. My advice to them, get a girlfriend.
Dear topguns: nice movie from the CCCP but in my opinion a total senseless way of air rifle shooting. Try to put the best out of yourself and shoot only on living birds when absolutely neccesary, I mentioned the American like to hunt but what these Russians do is a VERY bad example for the youngsters ! ( friends: I am not a moralist but like it more to see to improve the precision shooting, good for your breathing technics and on this way very good for your heart ). Best regards from Johannis.
I'm not tender hearted and am comfortable with people taking live game. What I find a total turn-off are the posts where people brag about how many such and such they've shot today. Sometimes the posts look like old pictures from an English driven hunt where the spoils are laid out in long rows. (Do remember that those were game animals which, eventually, ended up in the pot.) And I don't mind if airgunners want to reduce recognized, invasive species.
What I have issues with are the folks who, essentially, shoot legitamite game out of season. (I'll bet that a lot of shooters don't realize that hunting seasons are established for specific reasons. Right about now, most squirrels have litters in the nest.) I know I will get "flamed" for saying this, but a backyard doesn't make it "right" to shoot a couple dozen squirrels when the same feat in the woods will get you a ticket from the game warden. There's a limit to what constitures a nuisance, especially when shooters are intentionally baiting animals into the yard for the express purpose of shooting. Ditto potting them from bathroom/bedroom windows. Kind of puts the sport on the cheap side, if you follow my drift. Plus, it's a dangerous practice.
A lot of Native American tribes who depended upon wild game for their sustenance used to treat the animals they harvested with respect. Some even went so far as to perform a ceremony for the game's spirit. While I don't propose today's shooters don a head dress and send smoke to the four corners, they could have a little more respect for the things they kill than to post graphic closeups of their "conquests". And I will throw in the really long shot artists who tout "incredible" kills where the retained energy and accuracy of the shot is marginal, at best. I never see posts stating how many attempts were made or quarries wounded before a successful hit was made.
Sorry for the vent but sometimes I can't differentiate between this form of the shooting "sports" and Harp seal harvesting.
In most states the small game hunting season was over a couple of days ago on 2/29. If we see any posts about continuous hunting and killing of small game besides unprotected species, then it will be obvious that person is breaking the law and we will not condone it, never have in the past. I have asked people the simple question if they have a hunting license and there was no reply or we never heard from them again.
I have observed in other dedicated airgun hunting forums that over 80% of the taking of small game occurs in backyards of airgun hunters. Even the ones that do a lot of hunting in the field, always post a few stories or pics of a backyard kill. Why does that not sit right with you?
Why go to the woods when someone's back yard is full of game? If I had nothing in my backyard to shoot at during hunting season, then I 'd go out on the field. Just because you don't like it, it doesn't make it wrong. Post a question here about who has taken small game in their back yard, and probably 99% or more of the membership will say they did. That is the beauty of small game hunting. You don't have to go far to run into small game during the hunting season. Why pass up what frequently visits your backyard, and spend money, time and effort going somewhere far away?
The woods are not always safe. I had some hunters shooting deer at the top of the hill from the foot of the hill, as I was stalking and walking up to the deer from the other side of the hill. There was a lot of thick brush so I needed to get up close and find a clearing to take the buck that led the herd not more than 30yds out. There were 2 guys firing into this herd of deer. One of the bullets struck the tree above us as we were almost at the top of the hill on the other side ready to take our shot. My hunting partner almost wet his pants and quit for the day. Another time I was sitting by a deer trail between 2 trees in the woods with bushes all around me, when this hunter about 60yds away must have seem me move a little or noticed "organge" and raised his rifle to look at me through his scope. He made me very nervous as I was watching him point his gun at me for at least 5-6 secs that seemed like eternity. I raised my hands and waived in hopes he wouldn't shoot me. He then walked over to say hi. I asked him why he pointed his gun at me when I was wearing all orange clothing. He said he wasn't sure because I were hidden very well behind the bushes and he had to make sure it was another hunter. He said he had the safety on all the time so there was nothing to worry about. Yeah that gave me a lot of comfort.. I told him next time to do that with binoculars and not his rifle scope.
Since that day I have considerably cut back my field hunting. I came too close for comfort twice and I don't risk going to the woods when I have the game I need in my back yard. Everyone is different. If you like going to the woods and ignore game in your backyard, good for you.
Field hunting is not the only option or the only right one. If you have a sufficient back yard and can shoot safely with good backstop or without endangering the neighbors, there 's nothing wrong with going hunting on your property with an airgun. Some people buy a big enough property or with some seclusion, just for that reason. I had nothing in my back yard except woods up until last year when they build a house on top of the hill that belongs to me almost directly 50yds behind my house. My back yard is 90yds long so I 'm now confined to shooting west of that house and take a different approach shooting more into the 16-18ft hill at lower branches or at ground level. You just have to be careful and use common sense when shooting at creatures in your back yard.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
Like I have informed many in this forum, I can shoot all I want in my backyard and my neighbor does not mind just so I DO NOT shoot one of his squirrels, yes he calls them all his even feeds them (peanuts). he is retired and close to 88 years old and comes out to his yard every afternoon
squirrels have their young ones in april and last 2 - 3 years due to their methabolism (high)
when my father said "you eat what you hunt and you shoot when it is a pest" was not something that just comes out as a comment but religion for me. reminds me of stories in the west where they would shoot american buffaloes by the hundreds every day and let them root in the plains. native americans whould hunt the animals and use everything to sustain themselves, hide, bones, meat all of the animal was USED for the welfare of the community
unless you live in England where the grey squirrel is taking over the red one you have no right to post that you shoot 60, 70, 80 same animals. Or India where the monkey is reverend and there are thousands in Bombay and New Delhi (can't shoot them) or Key West where the iguanas are overpopulated and becoming a pest (you sure can shoot these)
it is the hunters responsibility to hunt the correct animal for the correct purpose anything else is totally irresponsible in my eyes', maybe not in yours
warren
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
Harry, I understand what you are saying. Had a friend years ago who was narrowly missed while out in the open on top of a ridge deer hunting. And I know some who have turned back after hearing liquored up hunter shooting the woods up until day break. My post was directed more at those who shoot all year long, not just during hunting season.
Yes, I consider the squirrels that nest in my own back yard as kind of mine. I actually feed the little beggars and have one who has followed me around since it was small. I don't consider them pests. My wife had a pet squirrel when she was a kid. Used to sit on the sink and wash it's face while her father shaved. Had better habits than some of her two legged friends. People who put out feeders are more than a little naive if they think only the species they prefer will come to them. On another forum there was a very recent post about loading up pine cones with peanut butter and nuts to draw squirrels. How,in that sense, can those be considered pests? That's no different than shooting over a salt lick, grain or any other bait.
If some folks want to do it in their own backyard, fine with me. Just please don't stick the pictures in my face and ask me to call it sport. There's a world of difference between shooting squirrels in the woods and half-tame critters in the back yard.
