It just got serviced by Paul Watts. It is firing in the 780s and just had a Maccari spring and breech seal installed by Paul. People on this forum know the problem I have had is that it will not climb above 780s. The good news about this is that it fires very smoothly and without twang now (per Paul Watts). Its just a thought. I might head down to the sporting goods store this weekend, buy a 460 and fire it all weekend. If I end up with one firing in the 850s or so I will sell my other one. I will see by this weekend.
Wow, you have a 460 mag. 22. cal. one of the greatest guns made, a Paul Watts custom job, with a Macarri spring? You are one lucky guy! Man, all that smoothness, and accuracy that comes with it and the gun is shooting velocities of 780 fps!! in 22. cal. no less!
Let me see if I understand you right Martin, You are thinking about trading that gun tuned by a Master in for a stock gun because it may fire 50 fps or so faster?
Martin, I think the God's of heaven have landed you a perfect Diana!
By the way, Martin. I have a 460 mag in 22. that shoots very high velocities. It is firing very smooth. However, I ordered and received a new "MOD" kit from Macarri as opposed to his new "power" kit as I want the gun to be even more smooth and accurate then it is now. If after the tune, is is shooting in the 750- 780 range and more smooth then it is now, I will be delighted. If I cannot kill a squirrel with that, I will just order a PCP or pull out my 22. cal.
If you read his past e-mail he said he spent $75 for Paul Watts to "look at it" and install the spring. I doubt for $75 Paul did anthing more than install the new spring and breach seal. I bet he didn't even do any debur/polish. That's part of the basic tune which $140/150 if I 'm not mistaken. The advance tune is $250+ usually..
This gun is not really "tuned" by Paul Watts. It just got a new spring and breach seal.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
I bet the issue was the breach seal which Paul fixed by replacing it. Paul then installed the "low power" 460 spring that JM offers. I assume you did not supply the spring, correct?
Remember we suggested you order the full-power JM kit from his web site? I now I did and several other people but maybe because his web site was unavailable for a few days you couldn't order it?
I bet that will bring some OEM power back to your 460. Paul W. will not install a "power" kit unless you specify that and insist that's why you are better off send him what you want installed. There is a "power kit" for your gun which also comes with custom guides, but first ask Paul which one he put in it. I bet he had some old stock laying around of the "soft kit", not the power kit". He orders a lot of springs and keeps spares. This is the 460 power kit you want: http://www.airguns.citymax.com/catalog/item/251488/5277553.htm
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
Harry, Martins gun is not only fine but great!. I e-mailed and got a return from Macari asking him about both kits and he said the mod kit was the kit for smoothness as well as Marcelo . If fact I checked with him before I even ordered the kit. Harry, there are definitely two sides to this issue. If you want a super duper charged power kit complete with dual action boosters, then that is ok. But don't tell him "that is the kit he should have got". Just a question Harry? You make a statement like the Power kit came after the Mod kit as if the power kit is replacing the mod kit. The last time I checked and ordered they were both listed. Martins gun came back fine and I suggest that Watts did a great job on his gun. I have a hard time believing that Watts returns guns not up to their full potential, and I do not just mean SPEED! By the way, Harry, when my 34 was tuned. couple of inches were taken off the new Macari spring. I doubt you would really appreciate my tuned 34, simple because it does not have some super speed after the tune. And I can promise you Harry, the gun is tuned to perfection!
Martin, your gun is perfect. You do not have to order another kit! I hope you just start shooting and have some fun. You have been through hell for a while now, and just this morning you were happy! Don't let this new kit thing bring you down. I have been around long enough to see that even placing ones Chrony numbers on this forum is dangerous to your health.
and sent it to Paul with the gun. The gun was firing in the 770s and now its 780s with the spring. Here is what Paul did/said:
He replaced the spring and replaced the seal with a better one (even though Umarex already replaced it once). He tried to explain to my why something was burning up the seal (sorry I cant remember). He also did some adjusting and put some locktight on the adjustment screw at the front of the underlever. When I sent it to him, I also said that while he was installing the spring if he ran into anything unusual to please let me know so that he could take care of it. He said it might break in eventually in the low 800s. He said that he shot it and took the twang out of it. It fires really smooth and that I would definately be able to tell the difference in smoothness when I got it back. He said he would like to shoot it a bit more though.
I just think that the money and time I spent on her, she is now worth keeping.
I would like to see some pics of that mod to the breech seal I keep reading about.
The seal is just a new seal nothing special . The shim just needs the hole enlarged to about 1/8" or slightly larger *if* the controlled velocity (small hole) F shim is installed . If Paul checked it over , shouldn't be an issue . Then again the shim/port thing may just be old news that didn't pan out .
Hey Martin, If your shootin 14.3 @ 780, Thats 19.32 ft. lbs.,,,Thats a thumper for shure! Dont get lost in big numbers like I was.Your gun was in the hands of someone that knows how to sweetin it up. Just shoot it and be thankfull you have a one of a kind gun. If you want,, you can borrow my chrony w/ my "kriptonite batterys".LOL.! A tuned gun from one of the few masters of the art is one to cherish. Hope you will give it a chance. If not E-Mail me, Im always looking to add to my collection,,Ill trade you for a 460 that I promise will post big fps.#,s. Ha Ha.( 177 1400+ w/ silver eagles)! (you cant hit a damed thing,& spring will blow) But big numbers for shure!! LOL.! Tuned 460/@ 780--- sweeeet! Just kidden Martin. Tim.
Good thing you wore your old jeans because I 'm rolling up my sleeves again, only for you Dave!
Nah, I was just responding to Marty's disappointment with the velocity after the new kit install. He didn't seem happy and said a couple of times he wanted his 460 to shoots 850fps like others'. So I suggested that maybe the power kit was not installed. Don't get all over my case for making suggestions when it's obvious the man wants a little more power. I suggested a JM kit anyway. You make it sound like I told him to go with OEM spring.. To me a power kit mean OEM power which in the 460 translates to 22fpe, maybe more, not 19fpe like Martin is getting out of his.
Dave: You cannot tell someone your gun is perfect, keep it, don't sell it, etc. especially when you haven't shot it yourself. You can make suggestions, or why you would keep it if it were you, etc. I 'm willing to bet money on it that for $75, this gun has not gotten the full attention of Paul Watts. I 'm not saying he did anything wrong, and I know you KNOW, that a good tune takes a lot of time and Paul usually lets you know about it with a bill reflecting his work. He 's not one of the cheaper tuners out there but one of the "high" priced ones.
I never said Paul didn't do a good job. If he didn't tell Martin he didn't do a complete debur & polish, etc. then he didn't do it, not for that price.. I probably wouldn't do it either. I 'm not saying that would have affected the velocity. It wouldn't, it would just make a smoother shooting gun. Maybe Paul cut a coil or 2 also like Marcelo. That could explain it to. I don't know.
Paul did indicate that there was an problem causing damage to the seal. I wonder what that was. He must have made an adjustment so it doesn't happen with the new breach seal. This tells me this gun was shipped with a defect from the factory. Not what I want to hear about guns coming out of the Diana factory.
I think once the spring is broken in and everything else that this gun could possibly get up to the low 800's like Paul indicated. JM kit or not, they all have a break-in period. Like the 34 .177 that was shooting 700's with JM GRT kit and then after a couple of hundred pellets it got up to the mid-800's.
Keeping it is a good decision and I never said it wasn't.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
I'll take your bet Harry and raise you! You win, I will gladly send over my gun vs yours!!!! Done deal. How do you want to set the game? You want the posters to set the rules? You name it!! Dammit it all to Harry, you got it! Tomorrow, I will package up my gun to send to you. I have your address and "correct zip code". It is yours, a great gun, that shoots 22.cal velocities at 915 in certain pellets. Iam serious Harry, put up or just shut up! If I loose then so be it. My gun will go to a good home. But at some point a man has to be a man. I will put my gun on the line for the tuner and for Martin.
I don't want your gun (humm, which one? hehe). I don't understand where this came from. I said I 'm willing to bet $ on the fact that for $75 that Paul charged Martin he did not even do the basic tune which is double that. Seems to me he just installed the spring, seal, and "inspected" things. Why would you send me one of your guns? What's that got to do with anything? Sorry you lost me..
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
Harry I just took it the wrong way. I really feel for Martin right now, as he has been through hell. I think is gun is ok now. I believe that he will probably increase to near what Straight Shooters listed for Velocities. When my 34 was tuned the velocity went down, which I requested. My 34 was firing way to fast. The gun is now extremely smooth and accurate.The gun is so much more fun to shoot. I had no idea how rough it was before the tune. Any way no hard felling.
I figure your 350 would be the best of the lot Harry. How about a shoot off for titles this summer? 25yards best, 50 and 75? Set it up, or I will set it up, lets do it. I think my 460 will beat your 350 on the target and willing to bet on it. I suggest you start shooting!
Hey Guys,, picture this,,airguns for titles,,Yeah thats right,, Airgun "Pinks"!! WOW what a great concept! Im calling Paul C. (he has vidio eqip.)& Speed chnl. as well. You guys have stumbled onto THE BIG one here!! We are going to be rich& be able to buy all the airguns we want!! Keep it on the "low" guys lest someone else beats us to the punch! Harry/Dave,,if you guys decide to refrain from stardom & decide to keep the great shootoff on a more low key personal level,,Can I watch?? Can I/Huh,Huh,Huh,?? Ha Ha! Tim.
you were a comlex-free guy Dave. Do I sense you are the type of "I have a better gun than you" guy? Do you have something to prove? Where is all this coming from?
You want to have a shooting match with your $490 gun against my $340 gun? Your gun retails for $150 more because it's smoother and probably a little more accurate. A more fair match would be if I came with a 54 or AA TX200.
How about we get our guns tuned by the same tuner and then have the match? I can't practice at 50 or 75yds so that wouldn't be fair. I 'll do 20 or 25yds though and no scope!
Tim: I 'm getting the copyrights to "Gun Pinks" right now! All we need is a film crew and the Outdoor channel to sponsor us.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
Warren, first of all I was joking Harry, but just dropped it.I was indeed angry earliar when Martin had just seem to finally get some happiness about his gun and then the bottom fall out again. I still disagree with Harry, but I am not about to keep this up. By the way Once I think it is over and dang if it is not back on top again. How about we just forget it and move on? Thanks Warren.
Tim, you really are a great guy, and I really appreciate all your support.
Thanks so much for the kind words guys! Giving me more credit than deserved for shure. Really its just that at 48 yrs., Im just like I was in high school, the "CLASS CLOWN"!! (Glad you guys accept me as such). I just got home from work & read posts here,, BEST DAY EVER!! I cant wait to get home anymore & check the latest at the "Werks"! At this point in time we have not grasped hands w/a handshake face to face,, But we are FRIENDS! Thanks guys for making my day!! And thanks ZVP for a site like this to bring serious aigunners together! Smilin old man,,Tim! P.S.,, Harry,, Hope your lawyer is wearing his "old jeans" & willing to "roll his sleaves up" to see if he even stands a chance at beating up my lawyers! Airgun Pinks is my puppy! Ill go Postal & shoot you square in the butt w/ my Red Ryder!! (Kidden about Postal Warren!!). Tim.
The show is all yours! I 'm out of the running. Too much startup costs $$. BTW, I said I was going to call mine "Gun Pinks" and not restrict it to airguns only. A lot of people would want to watch some firearm shooting too, than just airguns, but you had a great idea! If you think we can afford paying lawyers to battle it out, think again.. I can't, so I 'm not calling your bluff and just say make it happen! I think it would be a very popular show. Maybe we can use your back yard for it. Looks very nice and secluded
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
Guys, since the subject has changed away from Martin's original Post about his new 460, it might be time to start a new post. Thanks
By the way, Martin, how are you doing with your newly tuned gun. Hope things are working out , sounds like you finally have a winner.
Martin, all of us are looking forward to this gun standing up to the tradition of the
RWS Diana. Paut Watts knows what the hell he is doing and I feel very confident that your gun is in good hands. I bet it will fire great and be as smooth as silk.
Hea Harry, Do you think I should get one of these Product code 76450 kits ? Ofcourse after shimming my breach seal ,even though it passed JohnPAs tissue over rear sight mount hole test. I studied the gun and even if it is not leaking it wont effect anything if I shim the seal. But back to the question. Do you think one of these $80 kits might make my 460 a better gun ?
