I would like to know if there is a way to reduce the trigger pull on a 350 Magnum. It's set at3 pounds and a half at the factory but I would prefer something around 2 pounds and a half. The owner manuel does give instructions about the trigger pull screw, but nothing about the trigger pull, is there another screw somewhere for that ?
I wrote about the owner's manuel and instruction about the trigger pull screw but I meant the trigger travel screw. My post was not making any sense the way it was written . sorry about that
I'm not sure if the 350 trigger and the 460 Mag trigger are identical, but if yours only has one adjustment screw it's likely the same. I just backed mine out about 1/2 turn CCW and it's pretty close to 2 lbs. Since I doubt that the change per revolution of the screws is identical from gun to gun, I would suggest you start with 1/4 turn increments. When it gets close to where you want, use 1/8 to 1/16 turn or less. You should notice that the travel lengthens but the pull gets lighter. My travel is not exactly smooth, there is a slight increase, then some more movement with a slightly scratchy feel, then more increase in pull then the release. Someday I'll get in there and fix it, or it will just break in on it's own. It doesn't really bother me now that I'm used to it. Maybe I'll lighten it up some more and see if my groups get better. Doubt if I'd want to go lighter than 1.5 lbs for hunting.
All the new Dianas have the same T05 trigger with 1 screw and they are all 3.33 to 3.5lbs. You cannot reduce the force it takes to pull the trigger by just adjusting the trigger travel (or first stage as Diana calls it). You 'd have to do some work and tune the trigger assembly in order to get it down to 2lbs. The only adjustment our Dianas have is the travel before the pull-off point, if the gun is stock.
I have a hard time agreeing with this concept, because I have just come from the range, where I adjusted the 460 trigger another half turn out (CCW). I have not used a scale, but I'm SURE the trigger is lighter in pull than it was out of the box. It just isn't that difficult to feel the difference between 3 lbs and 1.5 lbs...Yes, I am getting a lot more travel, but the release is distinctly lighter too.
As I said before, it's the creep that bugs me...my 460 trigger is nowhere near as good as the 46 trigger, IMHO. Maybe I'll just screw it way out for fun, then all the way in, then out again....I wonder if there isn't a burr on the end of the screw making the creep funky.
It seems that there is confusion about the Diana T05 trigger and its adjustments. Here is a T05 tear down that I did on a 350 Magnum with a 11/06 manufacture date....these pictures are before I polished and jeweled the trigger housing (doesn't make the trigger work any better, just looks VERY cool, but then again, who ever sees it....the lube, deburr, and the burnishing of the internals is the CRITICAL part...sooooooo... Lets take a peak inside; the pics run in order as the parts come off.
Here is a complete T05 trigger just pulled out of a Diana 350 Magnum
Next is the reducing sleeve which it just a flexible plastic cover
Trigger blade ....trigger blade pin .... trigger spring : Pull on your trigger when your gun is NOT cocked; this spring returns the trigger to normal position forward position when pressure is released .... has nothing to do with pull weight or tension....
Top view of metal trigger housing .... sliding & locking plates .... safety engagement plate & spring .... plastic safety button unit
safety engagement plate & spring removed .... when the gun is cocked and the piston moves back it presses on this plate and pushes the plastic safety back....the spring pushes the plate back forward while the plastic safety button can still be pushed forward to fire or pulled back again to “safety ON” position…
Same as above but with spring stop removed….
Side view of trigger housing with the sliding and locking plates lifted up a bit…
Now you can see the sliding and locking plates....take note of the little nipple at the bottom of the locking plate….must be reassembled with THIS plate BEHIND the sliding plate and with the nipple down!!!!!!!!!! These lock and hold the piston back when the gun is cocked....more on these to come....keep reading to see how they work
Top back view of the trigger housing showing the upper lever (closet to the hole) .... lower lever (closet to the back)
Rear (back) view of trigger housing showing a better shot of the trigger spring .... this spring dictates 99% of the “pull weight” of the trigger…wanna change the “pull weight of the trigger”…this is where to start…I suggest buying a few of them before you start tweaking the “pull weight” of the trigger….if ya mess up, ya got spares!!
Underneath (bottom) view of trigger housing showing the lower lever where the trigger blade comes into contact to fire the gun (can see the upper lever too and its spring which is called the “leg spring”....
Here is the lower lever showing the trigger spring and the lower lever pin…see that notch DIRECTLY ABOVE the hole where the pin goes....that is what I will call the “mouth”….remember that word “mouth”....when the trigger is pulled, it comes into contact with the part of the lower lever that is below and in front of the pin’s hole thus pushing it up and at the same time pushing the back of the lower lever down and compressing the trigger spring; again, remember that it is the trigger spring that dictates 99% of the "pull weight" of the trigger blade that so many people talk about. Now the 2 stage trigger adjustment screw...when you turn the screw clockwise on the bottom of the trigger blade, it moves further up and comes into contact with this lower lever thus shortening the first stage (shorter first stage)…turning the screw on the bottom of the trigger blade counterclockwise moves the end of the screw moves further away from the bottom of this lower lever resulting in a longer first stage....turn the screw counterclockwise TOO FAR and you will not be able to feel when the trigger blade engages the lower lever .... you will have just eliminated all of the first stage; then you won’t be able to feel the release or “firing point"....anyway....keep reading and....remember the “mouth” of this lower leg; it’s important....OK, read on....
With the lower lever, its pin, and the trigger spring removed, you can now see the upper lever which has a bit of a hump angling up (looks like a shadow) below the big hole in the body of the trigger housing …the back end of the piston rod comes into contact with this “hump” and pushes the upper lever down so its back end edge comes into contact with the lower lever’s “mouth” and pushes the lower lever down.
When you squeeze the trigger, the trigger pushes up on the bottom of the lower lever…the lower lever pivots on its pin with the trigger spring keeping pressure pushing against this movement; this resistance is the trigger pull weight. At that certain point, the “mouth” of the lower lever releases the back edge of the upper lever and with the leg spring pushes up STRONGLY on the upper lever, it snaps up and comes into contact with the nipple of the locking plate (remember them? *LOL*) releasing the piston rod and BAMB, the piston spring starts to push the piston forward.... is everything starting to make more sense now?
Here is a bottom view of the trigger housing showing the bottom side of the upper leg and its spring called the “leg spring”
Maybe you have a "funky" or defective, not 100% trigger, don't know, but the T05 trigger is not pull-weight adjustable - that's just the way it was built.. UNLESS you tune the trigger and do all that work that Curtis describes in his post above. So telling someone turn it a 1/4 of an inch and see how much lighter it gets, is misinformation. If you have a 1.5-2lb T05 stock trigger it would be the first that I 've heard of, which means you may have a "unique" 460
However, I should mention that adjusting the screw too much and giving it a long (travel) 1st stage, or the other way around where you eliminate 1st stage by adjusting the screw, can give the impression of a lighter trigger pull.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
Harry: "However, I should mention that adjusting the screw too much and giving it a long (travel) 1st stage, or the other way around where you eliminate 1st stage by adjusting the screw, can give the impression of a lighter trigger pull."
I really need to get a fish scale and check it, I'm just SO sure it's lighter. But, yes, I do think it's "funky" and sooner or later I'll get brave enough to do something about it, especially when we are so lucky to have someone like Curtis who doesn't mind sharing his expertise along with really good pictures!
Now Curtis, it you would just give us a hint about which surfaces are critical to trigger feel.....
I am sorry to be rehashing this old post, but this subject seems pretty much of interest lately. I just didn't have any Diana when these were posted, so could not contribute anything at the time. Now I’ve remedied that!
Those who say their triggers get lighter when they back off the adjusting screw are right! The reason is pretty simple, Physics. When we pull the trigger we are pushing on the lower arm, which is nothing more than a lever. As all levers work, the furthest from the leverage point you apply the pressure, the lighter it will feel. The T-05 trigger blade has 2 pressure points that contact the lever, the first one at the cross pin in the blade (can't be seen unless you pull the trigger blade out of its housing), which replaces the front screw of the T-01 trigger, and the second at the adjusting screw. Since the cross pin touches the lower arm (lever) furthest from the leverage point, it has to move the most to move said arm, but with less force required. The screw being closer to the leverage point will require less movement of the trigger blade, but with a little more force required. The combined action of these two pressure points is what gives 2 distinct stages to the trigger pull. So, if you back the screw all the way off, it won't touch the lower arm any more, thus leaving only the cross-pin to do the lower arm pushing and leaving you with a one stage trigger pull. Therefore, you get a “looong” trigger pull, but a bit lighter in weight. How big a difference it will make, will depend on the physical state of the moving parts inside the trigger housing. The most broken in triggers will probably show the most difference, whereas the newer ones won't show so much.
It is all a matter of preference, so YMMV, but I just wasn't willing to have such a long and uneven trigger pull in order to lower the pull weight just a few ounces. Besides, I do prefer having a second stage, so that I can know with certainty when the trigger is about to break. So a full trigger job was in order for me.
I wish the T-05 trigger had the 2 adjusting screws the T-01 has; it would be easier to adjust each stage separately to obtain a better trigger pull. That been said, I can see why Diana would get rid of the forward screw; it just gives them a much more lawyer friendly trigger. Without the forward screw, it is virtually impossible to make an unsafe adjustment to the trigger. No matter how you adjust the second screw (the only one on the T-05); you just can’t reduce the sear engagement, which could very easily be done with the two screws trigger.
So, in short, the T-01 is an adjustable trigger, the T-05 is pretty much a gimmick, with a screw left in there just to have a sales pitch. It does change the feeling of the trigger, but only to make it worst in my opinion. In a real adjustable trigger, you’d be able to adjust the most important parts of a trigger pull: Sear engagement and pull weight (Do I hear Rekord anyone?). These just cannot be done on the T-05, which leaves you with only one choice if you really want to improve its pull: break it down and follow Curtis’ instructions (see links above). Also check: http://home.comcast.net/~scot_for_sale/guns/RWS48_tune/index.html
No I don’t think it’ll turn the T-05 into a Rekord, but it will make it immensely more pleasing and manageable. In fact, so much so that you’ll have a hard time believing it is still the same trigger your rifle came with. Just remember to go easy on all operations, you don’t want to overdo it, as I did! I did everything, including the spring cutting, and ended up with a very smooth 13oz trigger pull, which about 1/4 lb lighter than I wanted. Now I may have to order new springs to bring it up a bit.
And last, just as a side note, I did also put a sleeve over the cross pin in the trigger blade, made out of a pen’s brass ink tube, just to increase the pin’s diameter and bring the first stage closer to sear release. It gave me a very light 7oz trigger pull with an extemely short second stage, which made me feel a bit uneasy. So I pulled it out and put the bare pin back in. It gives me a better second stage feel, but I would still like to bring the pull weight up to a full 16 oz, just like on my Rekords.
I hope this helps clarify some things up. And Curtis, thanks a lot for all the info you share here, it is very well appreciated.
The point is to get a really nice release, right? Something without any drag or hindrance that forces the shooter to inadvertantly concentrate even briefly on the trigger pull.
Take the rifle out of the stock. Remove the pins which hold the plastic trigger blade in the rifle and look at the metal parts it contacts. See where the sear contact is? Put a tiny bit of moly on that point. If you want you can touch the other parts in there also if you like. Reassemble and try a few shots. Just a much smoother break ought to feel like a big improvement. And as you get used to it, I think it will be.
That's all I've done and people seem to like the crisp firing characteristic of my 46. They think more effort went into it and really that's all I did.
I just did a trigger mod on my 34 like Scott heath. I am still playing around with it to dial it in. I have the first stage almost gone but I may back it out to get a bit less second stage
I also was not able to get the pictures from Curtis. Would you please send them?? I tune these triggers myself but know some friends who would love to have them. Thanks a lot - Lee
Gunlover, I was going to say that, so you saved me the detailed physics part! I will try for the simple summation: The Trigger pull weight stays the same unless you fool with the spring. Because you are changing lever arms (you know, wasn't it Archimedes - "Give me a place whereon to stand and I can move the world" - I think what he wanted was really a fulcrum....). and therefore the length of the pull, the amount of effort at the point of release seems less. You have put your effort into moving additional distance to get to the point of release. This usually has a good effect as minimizes jerking the trigger.
...Simply remove the factory seer spring and install this one.
I have $75 in research finding this spring. So, it's like shareware. If you try it and like it, send me something.
Rob
and got lucky. but thats a crapshoot. what kind of trigger pull wt do you get out of it, Rob?. i have not measured mine but its pretty nice now. i also stoned the contact points and made it smoother and mollyed the appropriate places.
...for about a buck each. I don't know what the pull is but it's much better.
Make sure the gun is unloaded and uncocked. Remove the action from the stock. Remove the cover at the rear of the action tube. Pull back on the safety until it comes off. Don't move the flat bar that goes down the center of the trigger assembly. Pry out the factory spring with a small screwdriver by picking it out of the small pocket at the bottom of the housing. Use a small pair of needle nose pliers or tweezers to put the MSC spring on the tab that sticks down from the seer and drop the other end into the pocket at the bottom. Push the safety back in. Put the cover back on. Put the action back on the stock. Test the gun. Send me a tin of Beeman FTS pellets.
Easy.
Rob
request moderators to temporarily restore the pics in this content (T05 tear down).....Im new to this forum and regret having missed this...My RWS54 and Panther31 both have To5 triggers and im interested in knowing the internals...
or another online picture service. When you delete a picture from Photobucket, all threads which were linked to it will come up with the blank box. He will have to repost that thread, since there is no edit feature here.
Rob has provided me with the pictures...no sooner than I had mailed him my request, I got the pictures......I must say there are some fantastic people in this forum, ready to help...I consider myself fortunate to be here ......
Rob has helped me a few times. As with his Spring for the trigger it will forever be called the "Hawkens" spring when I refer to it! Thanks Rob. I have sold a few of them with my trigger kits. They are noted that it is the "Hawkens" spring in the kit.
