I heard some people saying that they don't use heavy (>9gr?) pellets in their (various) .177 gun because it makes the spring wear out faster and causes dieseling. The lightest lead .22 pellet is about the weight of the heaviest .177 (except for those 16gr Eu Jins) from what I have seen and I don't understand or believe how .22 guns are reliable pushing thousands of 14-16gr pellets on average but heavy pellets are bad for .177 guns. Does a .22 of the same model have a different powerplant than a .177?
I use crosman premier domes 10.5 in all my .177 because I have found that my groups are much tighter with the heaver pellets . I do not think it is worth missing shoots with light pellets just to make a spring last a little longer . Marvin
If I can get over 3000 consistent shots with heavies after break in from my future 48 then I will be happy. So based on that would anyone recommend I shoot heavies?
From what I've read, the tubes on many .177's and .22's are the same. In other words, same power plant and different barrels. The compressed volume of air takes longer to exit a .177 bore. If very heavy .177 pellets are used, the piston meets too much resistance at the forward end of the shot cycle, causing a lot of stress on the spring which, eventually, leads to premature failure. The .22 pellet, with the same inertia as the heavy .177, gets around this due to the larger capacity of the bore, allowing the air from the compression tube to exit more efficiently, cushioning the piston. At least, that is how I understand it.
Well, having tuned many different guns over the years (Webley, Dianas, Beemans, a few Theobens – all spring guns and a few gas rams) in everything from .177 to .25 cal, I will say that when I get a gun that diesels, I shoot 10-20 heavy pellets through the gun to stop the dieseling. It stops because the air stays in the compression tube longer and gets compressed….when you compress air it heats up and there is ignition – like a diesel engine in a car or truck, thus the term dieseling….this burns off the excess lube (or whatever is causing the ignition) and the dieseling stops.
In .177, a heavy pellet that I like is the Beeman Kodiak….actually, I shoot Kodiaks in all of my guns…all .22 cal…loved them in my Webley & Scott Patriot that I used to have in .25 cal…great pellets – excellent ballistic coefficient in all calibers.
ballistic coefficient (bə′lis•tik ′kō•ə′fish•ənt)
The numerical measure of the ability of a missile to overcome air resistance; dependent upon the mass, diameter, and form factor.
If you are concerned about the weight of heavy pellets, look at mid-weight pellets such as the JSB Diabolo Exact Jumbos or Air Arms Domes….the only other pellets that I will shoot in my guns in any caliber. (there is only 1 exception which I will list below).
As for the spring stress issue, if your gun in .177 shoots at 1000fps (factory over rated untruth by most manufacturers to increase sales) ….so really anything close to 900 FPS or better, then don’t worry bout the weight of the pellet.
I NEVER recommend…well...Personally, I refuse to shoot light or ultra light pellets in my guns that are bigger than .177….I never EVER shoot lights like RWS Super Points or Domes, but that is my personal feelings…in magnum and super magnum guns, light pellets don’t provide enough resistance to the air that is exiting the “air transfer port” and I swear to you that I have heard guns (even my own personally tuned guns) make noises that are like the end of the piston “bottoming out” in the air compression chamber. This is just my personal observation….BUT I do shoot them (RWS Super Points) in a 20 yr old Crosman 3100 break barrel that I have because it is a sub 600FPS gun (on my F1 Chrony)…it doesn’t make that horrid sound when pushing lighties….*laugh*
If you feel good in thinking that you will be happy with 3000 shots with heavy pellets, then you will be more than fine (((( IF )))) you are shooting a relatively new (modern) gun…your seal will be closer to needing to be replaced than the spring….and a good lube job with Maccari lubes (look to him for a seal too – heck, he may have kits for your gun as well if you are lucky *smile*).
A Diana 48 in .177 is a stout gun….VERY COOL…I DO think that Maccari (JM) has kits for the 48...almost positive.
Pyramyd Air has a deal (all of the time) that if you buy 3 tins of pellets, ya get the fourth tin free…good deal …
Here are my personal recommendations (in no particular order)
BEEMAN .177 Kodiak Match Extra Heavy 10.6g
CROSMAN .177 Premier Domed Light 7.9g
CROSMAN .177 Premier Domed Heavy 10.5g
JSB .177 DIABOLO EXACT HEAVY 10.2g
JSB .177 Predator 8.2g
Air Arms Diabolo Field .177 Cal (4.52mm), 8.44g
As for air compression tube size, there are guns that have interchangeable barrels that let you go from .177 to .22 to perhaps .25 (don’t think that John Whiscombe is making rifles anymore…think he is retiring (sad I didn’t get one of his guns before this time came…was afraid of it but never acted….I’m major dumm)….some guns only have a difference in the caliber of the barrel with the rest of the internals being the same in all calibers, others are different….depends on the gun manufacturer and the model.
I have a 54 in .177 on the way. What pellets would you recommend, the 10 grainers, above? I'm kind of leery of the 7.9 grain variety as that is supposed to be a "magnum".
You made a great decision in getting the Diana 54.....very sweet....anyway, considering that it is a big & stout gun (very capable), I would try these pellets in this order...
BEEMAN .177 Kodiak Match Extra Heavy 10.6g <---heavy but accurate and not real expensive
JSB .177 DIABOLO EXACT HEAVY 10.2g <---Possibly one of the best pellets available in any cal. but a tiny bit more expensive and because they have a light (thin) skirt, there are some damaged ones in the tins when they arrive...what I do is to take 1 of the pellets as a "sacrifice" and put it on my table and then sort the pellets and take the ones with irregularities (damaged)in the skirts and put the skirt over the rounded top end of the "sacrificed pellet" and push down on it...it instantly puts the damaged skirt back into form with no problems....sounds spooky but it really isn't....it's all good...
CROSMAN .177 Premier Domed Heavy 10.5g <--- Not MY personal favorites but many stand by them...not expensive
Air Arms Diabolo Field .177 Cal (4.52mm), 8.44g <-- An EXCELLENT pellet that is VERY much like the JSB Diabolo Exact - I like them very much for my 350 Magnum if I can't get the Kodiaks...
The heavier pellets will shoot slower...BUT.....HUGE BUT....they will carry MORE energy down field (they will hit MUCH harder)
Example is that with my Diana 350 Mags in .22cal, the .22 cal Kodiaks exit the barrel at about 670+ feet per sec....after traveling a measured 55+ yards, they are traveling in the mid 540's (fps) BUT they still are carrying 14+ ft lbs of energy which is more that an airgun can legally shoot AT THE MUZZEL in England (if the owner doesn't have an FAC [fire arms certificate) to shoot more powerful guns....at 55+ yards, my heavy 22 cal Kodiaks (21.1g)are hitting pigeons in the chest and exiting through the back....a straight through, over penetrated shot....
To return to the original question, there are three variables that determine how pellet weight affects spring life-
1) Bore size- larger bore means more surface area, which in turn means better efficiency, that translates to a spring that works less to push the pellet out. In addition, the most common heavies are in the 10-12 gr range, still a bit below the 14-16 gr weight range of most standard .22 pellets. Lighter weight means the spring transfers less energy to the pellet, causing a harsher firing cycle and shortening spring life. This can also lead to drastically short scope life (the unused spring energy has to go somewhere, and that somewhere usually ends up being the scope, causing the reticles to come apart), and the 48/52/54 are known as scope killers, especially in .177.
2) pellet fit- pellets that fit tight in the bore make the spring work harder, loose fitting pellets can simulate a dry fire, with piston slam and spring breakage being the end result, pellets that just fit are best.
3)- this is the important one- spring size. Not all guns have springs that are created equal. Wire diameter is the key here. It would seem that springs made of smaller diameter wire fail earlier with heavy pellets. The cut off is somewhere around .128. Diana factory springs are .128, marginal at best for .177 heavies. Many 48/52 guns have had the springs fail from a steady diet of heavies. The 48 is a stout gun to be sure, but the power level is best suited for .22 caliber. I have a 54 in .22 equipped with a JM Monolith kit. Its a fantastic shooter, dead accurate well past 60 yards, shooting a typical midweight .22 pellet in the 820-830 fps range.
Sorry to go off topic for a moment but I wanted to clarify something on the RWS pellets.
Superpoints and domes weigh 8.2 and 8.3 grains respectively.
Super-H-Points only weight 6.9 though. I always thought of the domes and points as a good pellet due to the larger diameter skirts and added weight. All of my guns shoot them well with no odd noises.
If you are talking about what I said about odd noises you will see that I said:
"....I never EVER shoot lights like RWS Super Points or Domes, but that is my personal feelings…in magnum and super magnum guns, light pellets don’t provide enough resistance to the air that is exiting the “air transfer port” and I swear to you that I have heard guns (even my own personally tuned guns) make noises that are like the end of the piston “bottoming out” in the air compression chamber. This is just my personal observation....."
Magnum and Super Magnum guns....I consider some of my 350 Magnums "Magnums" and some "Super Magnums" as they have custom tophats and Rear Guides that I turned which incorporate a bit of extra spacing over the OEM spec. for added power. But even in a stock 350 Mag., light RWS pellets do not fit tight enough in the breech and don't weigh enough to offer enough resistance to the air as it exits the air transfer port and this allows the piston head & seal to bottom out (hit the inner end of the air compression tube...I am not telling anybody "what to shoot" but rather giving a bit of food for thought based on my experience....it is just that when I even THINK of the noise of a piston bottoming out in a Magnum springer, Ooooooooo....makes me cringe...that is all.
My .177 cal Crosman 3100, it LOVES RWS Domes and Super Points...have never done anything but lube that gun and for being about 20 years old, well, it's a jewel...
I guess it is really about what the owner/shooter of the gun feels comfortable with that matters most...*smile*
Good shooting to all.....
-Curtis
PS...The skirts on RWS Super Points are a bit too thin in my opinion for a magnum or super magnum gun...but if you look at the RWS Domes, their skirts are thinker and reinforced....can post a comparison picture if needed...
Based on your earlier post I thought you were saying that you didn't like the two RWS pellets because they were too light, I hope you can understand my confusion. I just wanted to point out that they are over 8 grains which I thought placed them in a mid weight category.
I agree with your observations on the RWS dome and pointed skirts. Both are thin in my opinion but neither has given me any problems in my magnums so far. I imagine that something a bit hotter than anything in my collection may very well rip the skirts off of them.
Take care,
Russ S.
"I never EVER shoot lights like RWS Super Points or Domes, but that is my personal feelings…in magnum and super magnum guns, light pellets don’t provide enough resistance to the air"
Héctor J Medina G (Login HectorMedina) 189.182.30.110
One vital point that has been left out:
March 12 2008, 2:10 PM
CJ,
The "heavy" or "light" moniker is relative to the caliber. Except for the EunJin at 16 grains, or the Custom made Viper at 21, most pellets in 0.177" are in the 5 to 11 grains region.
Having said that, it is customary to label the 10.x grainers as heavy (partly because Crosman did so and, from there, JSB also did so). Pellets in 8-9.x grains are labelled medium and pellets lighter than 8 grains to 5-6 are light. Some call the light pellets "pistol" pellets or high velocity pellets.
What has to balance the pellet weight is the piston weight, NOT the spring.
If the pellet is light for the piston, the piston will slam before the pellet reaches max. velocity.
If the pellet is heavy for the piston, the piston will bounce before pellet reaches max. velocity.
If the pellet is heavy and the piston bounces, then the spring will push AGAIN the piston to the end of the stroke, but that implies ANOTHER duty cycle for the spring (compression-decompression-compression-decompression). So it follows that a heavy pellet with a light piston will work the spring TWICE as hard as a balanced system; expecting a HALF life would be normal.
IF you want to "tune" your gun, the first thing you need to do is to find out what is the "natural" pellet weight ideal for your gun. Dianas magnum rifles are designed around medium to heavy weight pellets and most will shoot well with the 8 to 11 grainers in 0.177" Try those first. Lightweight guns will usually shoot better with medium weight pellets, things in the 7 to 9 grains region. Once you find out what is the natural state, then you can decide if you want the gun to shoot heavier or lighter pellets. Tunes for heavier pellets usually need a heavier spring and some spacing, I would recommend looking at spacing the spring at the front of the piston with a "TopHat".
But first find out what is the natural pellet for your gun, try ALL the pellets available to you. Discard nothing outright, you need to find out what is the most precise and best performing pellet.
Springers are noble guns because they will usually yield close to Max ME with the most accurate pellet for that particular gun in that particular weight/category.
Try them all and if you think you want to "tune" the gun to a particular pellet, start putting weight on the moving mass of the piston (steel washers can do for starters/trials), you can then decide from there if you want to make a tophat or have one made specially. Only if you find out that spacing the spring in front and adding weight is not producing better speed nor accuracy can you think of spacing at the rear of the spring on the guide end.
Remember each gun is an individual, and that this is JMHO.
FIrst of all, There's some really great information in this string!
Yea, I KNOW that awfull sound and it feels as if the guts are doing some weird bounce behind those "heavies" too. The problem is that none of my .177 caliber rifles make a complaint when I use too light of a pellet or one with a thin skirt. (Once in a while I DO send a few down the spout just to experience their fast velocity though!)
I have read enough warnings around the net to shy away from going too light in order to avoid damages. Lacking the test and tear down facilitys of those in the know, I simply trust their judgements.
I do wish that there was one "Do All" pellet though because my Pellet Box is getting very heavy and owning several rifles, I chose to use and carry most of my Pellet array at each outing and it now rivals my shooting bench for heaviest thing! Each rifle has at least 3 "Possibles" and one absolute favorite which cannot be done without.
My .177 spreadis too numerious to list, but most of my rifles prefer a middleweight 7.9- to 8.6 gr. Domes seem to be most reliable. My HW barrels seem to be least pellet sensitive and the diana's the most. Each Diana seems to have one pellet it shoots accuratelly between 30 and 50 yards BUT, it may also choose another for 20 yard targets.
My .22.s are a little less choosey except for my latest (an RWS Model 36) which will definatelly not group with any RWS labeled Pellet. For G/Puses I can always count on the basic .22 Crosman Point to carry farthest with the most accuracy. The Crosman Premiere seems toedge it slightly. I still haven't tried the touted JSB Diabolo, but will soon!
It seems that we who choose to shoot more than one gun had better accept these varied pellet choices and can always write em on a strip of masking tape to be applied to each rifle.
I know that I will add and keep all these ideas in the back of my mind while swapping pellet tins at the range. What a great string this has been!
That bit about the too light pellet causing the piston to rebound and set up another, smaller spring cycle got me to wondering just what may be going on within the spring, itself, to contribute to failure? I a firearm, if you use too little powder in a large capacity cartridge to produce a gallery or "squib" load, you can set up a very bad pressure spike. So intense, in fact, that it can put a ring in the chamber wall. Basically, what happens is the primer sends out a shock wave that bounces off the bullet base, while the powder burns slower, sending forward another shock wave. When they meet, they produce a spike. (Think of making waves in the tub. Splash too virgorously and you end up with a tsunami.)
Could the same thing be happening within the metal of the spring, itself? There's a lot of vibration going on. If one end of the spring is oscillating from the initial rebound and you send a second, smaller wave through the metal, could it cause a break where the two meet? This may not be a silly concept as the dynamic spikes are truly out of proportion to the heights of the initiating waves.
I'm not sure if I am misunderstanding what you wrote Red but a light or loose fitting pellet would result in piston slam as I understand it. This would actually result in the lack of rebound against an air cushion as is expected to some degree in a normal shot cycle. The impact of the piston against the end of the chamber would send a shock wave through the spring and guide and given enough opportunities, something would eventually fail.
A tight fitting or heavier pellet would pose more resistance so the piston would double bounce of the cushion of air between the pellet and piston seal. The results in a completely different sound and sensation since the piston travels in both directions more often than it would in a normal cycle.
This also applies to transfer port size too which is the only reason I felt I had anything to offer on this subject. I recently purchased a Beeman RS2 Sportsman (Chinese) that would not shoot any pellet at a reasonable velocity unless it was either very heavy or very tight. Some measuring on my part indicated that the transfer port (combined with the piston weight) was too large in diameter (.128 inches if I recall correctly). CPL's in .177 would hit 740fps with some rather nasty noises coming from within the gun. Superdomes which are tighter and heavier would hit 850fps without any of this noise. I changed the port diameter to .115 inches diameter and the CPL's hit 880fps with no odd noises.
I guess my point is that simply stating that light or heavy pellets are bad is not entirely accurate. There are many factors that effect what weight and diameter pellet is best for what gun. My testing also proved one other point to me, as little as .005 larger or smaller on a transfer port can have a HUGE impact in a guns behavior. This helps to explain why two different guns which are the same model may prefer different pellets.
Sorry for being long winded. Lots of experience to draw from on this one lately LOL.
all my guns' have a preference for pellets' and weight and I think it is because breech size, transfer port, spring, tuned or OEM and other considerations
my 48 is pellet selective, the 460 will swallow any kind, 34 is 50/50 with pellet selection
EX., 48 in .22 needs the CP to be put into the breech at an angle and then pushed in by my distal finger, snug in the breech it just "spit's" them out. now; my 460 will take any pellet and some seen to little for the breech like "loose" those will make the piston slam and do not travel with authority
the 34 accepts all of them Beeman, JSB, CP, Gamo you name them and shoot's fine with them, accuracy is another issue but it does make them all work the barrel
all Dianas' and in .22 cal. but all different when it comes to pellets inserted in the breech, "silly me I thought they were the same" LOL
warren
PS: yes this has been a good (thread) one in terms of information
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
Cj, Alot has been posted here,Somehow I missed this thread.I just skimmed thru it. I am a newb here,but in the last 2 years I have owened many airguns my Diana 54 is my favorite by far! I recently set up a 54 for a friend of mine, his was like Red Feathers a 177. Ill tell you you better shoot only 10 gr. plus heavey pells from that gun. I will tell you from "hands on exp." you better get some Kodiaks or CP heavys for a 177 cal. 54 (same for a 48/52)) Just my 2 cents, but what do I know?? Tim.
How hard is it to tune a .22 48 to push 15.9 JSBs at close to 900FPS or maybe more?
Why? the gun shoots just fine at about 820, a 54 shooting at 900+ will not have a pleasant firing cycle. That few fps won't make that much of a difference to the squirrels, they'll be just as dead. If velocity is the only parameter for choosing your gun, buy a PCP.
Dave wrote:
<Why? the gun shoots just fine at about 820, a 54 shooting at 900+ will not have a pleasant firing cycle. That few fps won't make that much of a difference to the squirrels, they'll be just as dead.>
And that IS the bottom line! It makes absolutely NO difference how fast the pellet whistles past if it doesn't hit what is intended. The old car salemans term, "Money talks and BS walks" is the operative principle here people!. BS all you need to about velocity but it means diddly squat if you can't hit what you're shooting at. Accuracy IS the bottom line and everything else is only hot air.
[QUOTE]Why? the gun shoots just fine at about 820, a 54 shooting at 900+ will not have a pleasant firing cycle. That few fps won't make that much of a difference to the squirrels, they'll be just as dead. If velocity is the only parameter for choosing your gun, buy a PCP.[/QUOTE]
Getting the pellet to shoot flatter over longer distances with higher FPS is a plus for me. The higher ME is another. I would like to have as much USABLE POWER as I can easily cheaply obtain.
I just want a springer. I like the cock-load-shoot cycle vs. firing a few dozen shots with a PCP and having to refill by pumping over a hundred times or replacing tanks with the gun itself being useless and I like the minimum of just carrying around a gun, pocket of ammo, and a bag for hunting small game. A PCP is not for me.
Dave:
Can you show me a 48 .22 that shoots 15.9gr JSB Jumbos at 820fps? If a 350/460 shoot them around 800fps (810 max) how could a 48 shoot them faster when it's supposed to be less powerful than the other 2? My 350 .22 was shooting them consistently between 800-808fps (before I lost some power recently and went down to the high 780's).
C.Jackson:
What you are asking is not reasonable. It would probably cost you close to twice what you paid for the gun, should a tuner accept the job because it would require all new internals including a custom-built heavy duty piston, etc. You are asking for 7 more ft-lbs of energy. It's possible they might get you 5 more FPE assuming they can fit a strong and long enough spring for the job, but 7 is highly doubtful. Even with 5 more FPE the shot cycle would be brutal and would produce a lot more recoil. I doubt the gun would be accurate and it would have a short life span.
If you have a 48 .177, use the heavier pellets and you 'll be all set. Most Magnum springers prefer they "heavies". Just find which ones fit right and are more accurate for your 48. This has been discussed here before and in many other forums.
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
Now I am completely confused. "Use the heavy pellets" On the Yellow Forum I was told that the heavy pellets wrecked a .177 54. "Listen for that sound" What does it sound like? Seriously, I think I will look for the medium to higher weight pellets, as recommended. Right now I've only tried the Gamo Match, and a few, at that. No hurry. Think I will order some JSB's while I'm at it.
On the speed vs accuracy angle. I've mentioned, before, that it really depends upon the gun's intended use. Some high powered rifles aren't capable of sub-MOA accuracy but are plenty close enough to do what they need to. I see a lot of airgunners who seem to be obsessed with tiny groups to the point where they feel their gun is lacking because it can't stand shoulder-to-shoulder with a 10 meter gun. They justify this with the old "improving the accuracy will give me more of an edge" logic. Remember, the army had a specialist come train their troops in wing shooting during the late 60's. This was the guy who shot tossed aspirins offhand with a bb gun. Anyway, so long as I can get a decent (for me) group I will be a happy camper.
On a 18-19fpe gun like the 54, heavies work best so the piston doesn't slam into the chamber wall hard like it does with lighter pellets or too loosely-fit ones. 8.x -11gr pellets would be perfect but steer towards 10gr. Many 34 owners shoot CP heavies and the like or 8.x-10gr so why would it hurt the 54 that has 30% or more power? It's not smart to shoot 21gr Kodiaks in a 34 .22 or out of a 13-14fpe gun and you may want to avoid them in a 54 .22 as well (unless you have a strong one that shoots 20+FPE), but in a .177 that has the same powerplant 10 grainers are perfect for it.
I don't know what purpose the pellets serve in your gun: paper, hunting or both. If you 're not into hunting then disregard this. If your activities with the 54 include hunting, you would also want consider the 8.8gr Crow Magnum which is a med-weight pellet, and very good up to 30yds, but that's the lightest I would go on a 54. The CM's also produce average accuracy results but are not bad at all on paper 20-25yds out. It's when they cross 30yds that they start losing accuracy as the velocity drops more since they have an average ballistic coefficient (BC). (0.014 vs. CP in a 54 which is 0.031, vs. Kodiak 0.025 according to Straightshooter's testing of the 54). CM is a very effective potent pellet for hunting birds/crows, squirrel & rabbit at close range <30yds. I would not use them on the big 3 though (racoon, groundhog, possom) where maximum penetration is more important than expansion.
You should also know that the CP Heavy 10.5gr produces the highest BC (0.031) in your 54 .177, even more than the Kodiaks. This results in the CP having the greatest kinetic energy (ft-lbs) at 50yds than any other pellet shot from the 54 according to SS testing on their web site. Disregard the typo on their web site of 0.051, it's actually 0.031. JSB Exact Heavies (or Jumbos in .22) have similar BC to the CP's and/or Kodiaks. Look here: http://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/ottest54.html
All the SS test #'s are very realistic and have been validated by many others that placed a couple of chronies at distance and as far as I know, never disputed. This why I only use pellets with a high BC (especially for hunting, I may use others for paper depending on the distance).
Diana 350 Mag .22
Hammerli 850 .22
A few Crosman CO2 & Pump .177
Thanks for the great info. I try not to post my newb. "opinions" but stick to what I can based on real hands on exp. Ive had my 22 cal./54 for a while now,I know it very well. I recently set up a 177/54 for a friend of mine. I had it for 2 weeks & put about 750 shots thru it. As you have seen from my range "pics" I keep alot of differant pells. in stock. The only ones I found to be aceplable in Loyds 54,(177) were Kodiaks. Even my beloved Crow mags were WAY to fast! Ill have his gun back fri.,, he wants me to give it a "check up". I will once again have it for awhile,(he is going out of town). I cant wait to do some more testing,& do anything I can to help Red Feather out! Loyds 54 shot Super Points thru a spruce 2x4 every time! Harry I agree w/ you, heavy (10 gr.) pells. are fine for a 54/177. Just my 2 cents. Tim.
Chrony numbers, BC numbers and lots of "should bes and would bes" are fine for theory, but in reality the 54 is a bit of a catch-22 in .177. As Harry pointed out, standard midweight pellets (7-8 gr) are a bit light for the gun as they may cause piston slam. However, the factory spring is not heavy enough to support a steady diet of heavy pellets without early failure. At .128, the wire isn't really heavy enough for the .177 guns power level. Its fine for the .22 due to greater efficiency acheived from the larger bore size, but in .177 theres a lot more unused energy being redirected back into the gun. Spring fatigue is a direct result of low efficiency, as is scope failure.
Hey Dave/Arathol, Are you saying I should go back to 8gr. pells in my friends 177/54 even though they were shooting 1100 +/- fps.?? How can that be agood thing? My friend is 67 years "young" & did not consult me before he purchased his 54 in 177. Loyds 54 was a tack driver w/177 Kodiaks when I delivered it to him. Please give me some advice,I DONT WANT to break his gun! I hope Red Feather is following this as he has a 177/54 as well. Thanks in advance,Tim.
What I'm getting at is that the 54 is best when configured in .22. The .177 is I think a losing proposition either way. You'd have to choose what you consider the lesser of two evils- lighter pellets and possible piston slam or heavy pellets and possible short spring life. Its easier to fix a broken/bent spring than a bashed piston/tube.
Dave, Now I get it. thanks so much for the input. I would NEVER buy a 54 in 177,I know better. I would never buy a 460 in 177,(I made that mistake!!) I think Im gona start a new thread on this one. I owe it to my friends Loyd & Red Feather to find a way to make their guns viable. I NEVER give up when faced w/ adversity. I am shure Diana would not make a54/177 if it did not have the potential for a long happy life?? Thanks dave,Tim.
