Charlton Heston died today in his home at the age of 84.
What a great man this was. Well I 'm sure you all know had had won the highest civilian honor presented to him by pres. Bush, the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
Sad day for gun owners too. Hopefully the new NRA people in charge will continue to fight for our freedom to carry arms as Charton Heston did in his 5yr tenure as the NRA president. This is what an NRA official said today about it:
"America has lost a great patriot. The Second Amendment has lost a faithful friend," said Wayne LaPierre, of the National Rifle Association of America, in a statement. "So have I, and so have four million NRA members and eighty million gun owners. And so has every American who cares about the Bill of Rights, individual liberty, and Freedom."
What strikes me strange is that there are 80 million people with guns and only 4 million members (granted, 5-10 million of them are probably criminals w/guns). The cost of membership is only $10/yr (or $25 w/magazines), the price of a tin of pellets or a box of 100 .22 rimfire bullets. Yet people neglect or hesitate to support this fine organization that fights for the support of gun ownership and against legislative actions seeking to make guns or their use, or HUNTING illegal. Membership can easily be attained through their web site which is also very informative. Check out the NRA news to see what they are fighting for right now which includes "hunting rights"!
"What strikes me strange is that there are 80 million people with guns and only 4 million members "
James replies:
I am appalled that every legal gun ownwer in America doesn't belong to the NRA. Far too many people want others to see to it that their rights aren't taken away.
Now I know why Harry shoots so many crows. When he picks up his 350 mag. to go crow hunting, he becomes Army Col. Robert Neville going out to hunt down the "family" with his Smith & Wesson M76 submachine gun~ lol. Imagine Harry, the whole world to yourself and nothing to do but go out each day shoot down evil mutants!
When Harry (Col. Robert Neville) wakes us and see a flock of crows in his trees!
Col. Neville: "There's never a cop around when you need one."
Just kidding ya Harry, do me a favor and take out the crow leader "Mathais" for me today, I always wanted to shut him up.
I guess there is a little of Col. Neville in all of us and a little of "Bill Tyler" to boot!
It seems you haven't been reading some of my posts..
Crows are migratory birds and moved out of the area about a week and half ago. I haven't seen one in about 10days. But now it's open season on groundhogs - a perfectly nice large unprotected animal for me to shoot at Got one already but did not put it down fast enough, it made it to the hole a few feet away which got me very upset but I 'm sure it died quickly from what I can tell from the blood trail and shot placement. Those things are dang strong. I watched some videos on youtube where they got shot with a 30-06, passed out, woke up and ran away!
BTW, I have a nice pair of doves nesting in my spruce AND a pair of robins. Another pair of mocking birds in one of the maple trees as well. All the bird songs and birds that do not exhibit pest behavior are safe and welcomed on my property. I even had a couple of chickadees move in and the same old house wrens and finches have moved back in again under my (raised) porch as well. But.. I 'll put my colonel's uniform on when Starlings and Grackles invade!
So back to the topic at hand. Are you supporting the NRA Davie? If not, I 'm going to launch some intercontinental pellet missiles down to Virginia Beach from my tuned 350!
Harry, I guess the tidbit of calling me Davie, is to try and induce a argument or to insinuate that I am a pussy liberal. Sorta of like when people call liberals pussies even though many liberals have died fighting for America. Not to exclude Vietnam and Iraq. My father was a pussy liberal,(career Marine) even though he fought in both Korea and Vietnam He had me in the NRA when I was about 10 years old and started me in shooting matches with a 22.cal rimfire. I went to more matches than I can remember and carried that knowledge into the US Army. I now own both rimfire, centerfire guns as well as shotguns. Hate to disappoint you here Harry, but I am a Independent. (I really believe that there are many liberals in the NRA) I really like to look at both sides of the fence. I can see total bull**** on both sides and it makes me sick. Do I support the aspect of the NRA to promote safe shooting, protecting hunting rights, youth programs, etc. You betcha! But there is the other side that has an opinion also. For instance, I do not believe that any one HAS A RIGHT to own a gun. I believe it is a privilege and one should earn that privilege. Do I believe that a gun in the house is a great deterrent? Hell no! Millions of these people have no business even being near a gun. In the state of Virgina, any idiot can purchase a gun as easy as buying toothpaste over the counter. There is a gun trader here close by that sells more guns to New Yorkers than he does to Virginians. His shop is on the list as one of the top three in the nation that guns turn up in crime scenes. I will support the NRA BUT,I will be a voice in the things I disagree with. I have a 8 year old, and even before he picks up the HW30 provided to him by Marcelo Zapatero to learn to shoot, he will go through a NRA safe hunting course and become a member. I dread him going over to some of his friends house who how have loaded hand guns! And you can bet some of them do! These people DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO DO THIS!
I think it is totally arrogant to assume that all folks of one party believe only all the main issues of that party. The NRA would grow ten fold, if that narrow minded attitude was just dropped! Thank you for my OPINION, This is a right in America and a privilege just as much as that sob Glenn Beck has his rights.
I made a typo and next thing I know you went into politics!
If you type without looking at the keyboard, or have taken a typing course, you use your middle finger to type the letter "i" as you do with the letter "e" of other hand (and no, I 'm not giving you the finger). I type 55-60 words/min. and sometimes some dislexia kicks in or my hands are not coordinated well and I will hit the key with the same finger of the other hand..
That's ok, I 'm used to your unusual reactions Dave
BTW, I too don't like either party this year I 'm afraid. Being independent may be the best thing right now..
I also agree on all the points you make about some handgun ownership laws, but I do find the laws a little messed up here in NY. If you had a violation or some stupid misdemeanor when you were 17, or a few speeding tickets, they won't even give you hunting handgun permit (non-carry) 20 or 30yrs later after you 've been a model citizen. Some laws are way too strict and most local judges here do what they want when it comes to giving out handgun permits. If they don't like you or they are having a bad day you don't get it, as simple as that. Then you have to spend thousands $ on a lawyer when you appeal and 99% of the time you 'll get it because of the 2nd amendment. In other words they want to see who is really serious about it and who is willing to go the extra mile and clean up their bank account to get a handgun permit even if it's not a concealed permit. It's happend to a couple of my friends. One of them was my boss who had a tresspass conviction and bought beer with a fake ID when he was a teenager 25yrs prior to applying for a non-carry permit! He was a swimming coach and active in the church, etc. but they said sorry you had some priors when you were 16 and 18yrs of age (like how many people didn't get into some trouble when they were teenagers?) even though he had all the references they asked for with character letters and everything. He appealed and about 18mos later and $8K less in his pocket for lawyers he was granted the permit by the county supreme court. It could be the system is corrupt and all the judges and lawyers are in bed together, I don't know, but I do know some judges abuse the power of discretion and ignore the gun laws and the 2nd amendment completely because they themselves favor gun control or woke up on the wrong side of the bed or took something you said in court out of context. Of course there are people out there that should not own a gun even if they have a clean record, but that's why you first have an interview with the sheriff's dept. in this state, and answer a bunch of the judge's questions so they can determine if you 're stable and would handle a handgun responsibly. You are also required to take a handgun safety course before the permit is issued or approved. Most states (like PA I believe and many others) don't have that and it is wrong. In NY you must also complete a 10hr (might be 8hrs now) hunter safety course before you can be issued a hunting license and qualify with a .22 rifle at the range. The entire time even at the range, the instructor watches how you handle the gun, where you point it, etc. from the moment he hands it over to the time you hand it back to them, and can fail you on the spot. I approve of these laws 100%.
they are civil and I enjoy the clash of the heads between these two, good points between then, always Magnificent ideas from these two, let them duke it out and YOU will learn something as I have learned from them
Warren
PS: don't you THINK!!
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
Harry, you asked me a point blank question and I gave you an answer. I am sorry, but your question IS Politics! I wasn't going to respond, but what the heck. I took the bait. Weather or not you did a typo, it is the common voice of many members of the NRA. I hear it all the time and the NRA has become a political gambit and "wedge issue" om mainstream political discourse. I live in a very Red state and Virginia Beach is especially Red Meat. I actually feel almost sorry for any kid whose parents may be a democrat and has to endure some of the carp I have heard. I apologize to Russ and the forum for my off colored remarks. I personally wish the NRA would stay the heck out of politics and focus on the true values of gun ownership, meaning family values, gun safety, preserving hunting rights etc. Just logging on to their website you see so much political garbage. It is almost hard to wade through it to find the core of gun ownership that I grew up with. Young kids can now log on to many websites. Why can't they log on to something that interest them with the NRA. I could not wait for my Dad to take me to my first class in the NRA and wore their patch proudly on my Boy Scout uniform. For instance, I go through the roof when some clown trys to tell me about the constitution or the bill of rights. It is a totally one sided argument they slosh out to the American people. How about letting the kids learn about the constitution in school and from their own opinions. The last thing they need is more propaganda from either side.
As far as political parties now running. I can hear the song in the background! "STUCK IN THE MIDDLE WITH YOU--
Well I don't know why I came here tonight,
I got the feeling that something ain't right,
I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair,
And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs,
Clowns to the left of me,
Jokers to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you.
Yes I'm stuck in the middle with you,
And I'm wondering what it is I should do,
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face,
Losing control, yeah, I'm all over the place,
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right,
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.
If it was a privilege who would give us this privilege?
I learned to cary and handle a gun from my father, carried a gun for a full winter beside my father with no chells. He told me once, guns dont kill people, people kill people.
Ray
Hi Russ,Like myself, I would say that you were indeed privileged to have a good father that taught you the core values of human life. Actually I think that slogan was taken from the 1953 movie Shane.
Shane: 'Marion, a gun is just a tool, as good or as bad as the man who holds it'
Unfortunately a lot has changed since 1953. I would like you to submit your post of your father taking you out hunting, and carrying a gun without any shells. What great advice! I would much rather see something like that when I log on to the NRA, rather than 50 film clips of loud mouth political pundits filling up space.
Russ, it is people like you that made lead projectiles illeagle in certain parts of CA. because one condore died of lead piosoning in the past. Didn't you ever laern that nothing is ever really free. These here and there incidents you are running scared from is the price We must pay !! The anti gun folks love people like you. The anti gun machines best fuel is fear. If I,yes I and or my 17 year old son,Yes my Son gets shot by a criminal with a gun or a gun accident with mine or his friends,We are willing to pay that price. Just like the founders of this great country. Again any right worth having does't come without a cost ! Believe me when I say they won't differentiate who is a great genius and who is a clown when they come for your gun. Proven FACT!! Lets outlaw capenter hammers.Because a guy that had no business with a capenter hammer killed someone. LOL
Please dont take them from me! I have 3, Kinda like my Diana,s ,I have a fondness for Estwing hammers. I have 3 in differant Cals.,, 16 oz. 20. oz. &22 oz.. Like my airguns, they all have there place,depending on what I am "hunting". OOPS, I also am a member of the "dark side" I have many "PCP" nail guns! Not shure of ft. lbs., but, my De Walt nailgun can shoot thru 2 rock hard 2X4,s no prob. (must be pushing 100 ft. lbs.?) LOL! Tim.
I'm the one that talked about my father, and can't type (Shells
I have grand kids, one thing i do is keep guns in the gun case but all shells
are put away elseware, somthing else my father told me.
Ray
So John you really believe all the research and legislation on lead pellets is about one condor? I suggest you might want to do a little research here as well as some on US History. For starters you might want to log on to the Ducks Unlimited web site and find some info about the destruction of migratory waterfowl and the destruction of our wetlands. Oh, and by the way, they are hunting enthusiast as well as the fact that I truly promote the sport of hunting even though I do not hunt much anymore. Oh, I forgot you have your rights so we should just let the pellets fly. I always have to chuckle with I see you fella's throw in "OUR FOREFATHERS" in a debate, without any thing to back it up. Maybe we should start with the Revolutionary War, and what is different in society well over 200 years later. But I think it would be a waste of time. However, I really get burned up when the subject comes to destroying wildlife and its habitat. How about reading this for starters.
LEAD POISONING
Lead poisoning, which occurs when waterfowl ingest spent lead shot, is a unique disease because it is caused entirely by humans. Ingestion of just a few pellets can cause death, and in some cases, a single pellet may prove lethal. At one time, an estimated 3,000 tons of lead shot were being deposited by hunters in North American wetlands each year, and the number of spent pellets in some wetlands averaged nearly 70,000 per hectare. Within the United States alone, historic annual losses of waterfowl from lead poisoning were estimated at between 1.6 million and 2.4 million birds. Afflicted birds often take several weeks to die and are characterized by an unwillingness to fly, “roof-shaped” wings, severe emaciation, including a condition known as “hatchet breast,” and bright green staining around the vent. While some lead hot spots remain and periodic die-offs still occur, the introduction of nontoxic shot has curtailed lead shot deposition in North American wetlands and has become a viable long-term solution to lead poisoning.
While it is unclear how many North American waterfowl actually succumb to disease each year, it is clear that continued wetlands loss will force larger numbers of waterfowl into a smaller number of suitable areas, increasing their risk for exposure to pathogens and major disease outbreaks. Through habitat conservation programs, Ducks Unlimited is working to minimize waterfowl losses to disease and ensure a healthier future for North American ducks and geese.
By the way, Your comment "Yes my Son gets shot by a criminal with a gun or a gun accident with mine or his friends,We are willing to pay that price." gave me the chills. That is one price I AM NOT WILLING TO PAY!
First of all I would like to apolegize to Russ for mistakenly directing my anger at him.I will be darned if some buzzard in CA. will hamper my hunting. Only in a delusional perfect world will there be no casualties. The people in England thought like you about 50 years ago or so.NOW the average joe has nothing but a broom stick to defend himself. But guess what, The hoodlums still have guns."OOOH I feel safer already" What got done but disarm the people so if need be the government can stomp all over the people with no REAL resistence. Thats ok, "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it" But I will be able to sleep at night when we are all nothing but subjects of the ever over reaching government
The people that won't pay the price won't get the goods.BTW, do you believe everything you hear and read. I have been in the wild here in FL. for 35 years and have never seen a lead poisoned bird of any type. I did see a dying dove with non-manmade mites all over it.You go ahead and be afraid for your son and your safety and my son and I will go ahead and keep the mindset,death before absolute government tyrany. GUN CONTROL,ASK THE EXPERTS, STALIN,HITLER and the list goes on. But we are delusional,We can't learn from history. It's getting pretty obvious now.
I was just posting back to what I read above,"Lets outlaw carpenters hammers" Was just funnin for shure! I hate to see conflict among those here. Seems to me you have solid family values my friend. Maybe I should preview my posts, or check my spelling before I hit that "button",, I never do,I just type as fast as I can w/ one finger & post. Thus far, I am satisfyed w/85% of my posts,10% I am not so happy about,but, I can live with,5% of them, I wish I had the power Russ does,I wish I could make them go away! I always pay attn. to your posts Ray,Tim.
I react to things like that kind of strongly. Didn't mean to stir things up.That subject and things closely related kind of rial me up. I respect treditional Amarica. Tim was just telling e ho he saw it. I hae to respect that. "THIS IS AMERICA" right !
But I believe in the second admendment and will fight to defend the right to Bear Arms.
Now on to Tim's post about his hammers!!! We need to see a picture of your thumb nails.If either of them are purple from hammer strikes to them with your experence and years behind your weapons of wood building I say you should give up your hammers and move on to a new trade!! Maybe finger painting ,or titty inspections..That way you will not hurt yourself.. LOL
I hope you know this is a joke!!And not intened to offend you!
nothing in the 2nd amendment say's anything about the "Right to bear Hammers", they might be banned by the anti hammer group (so hard it, tacks) or it's short name (SHI*) don't want Russ locking this thread because of a mis-understanding about foul language or a fine from the FCC
I know Tim has the air gun brands in Makita, Delta, Craftman etc. and the do not have fps but GOOD MV's they can go through 2 x 4 like a hot knife over a stick of butter
warren
PS; your turn Tim
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
If you read the Federalist and Anti Federalist Papers, its more than just implied that the ability to form a state militia comes out of the right to own and carry arms.
Here's how a privelege works: Your dad takes you hunting with him before you're of age to buy your own guns. He may even give you ammunition.
Here's how a right works: Your dad's pride shows no matter how he tries to hide it, when you drop off the wife and kids with mom in order to go hunting with your father. Just as the kids are out the back door your wife screams there's a thief in the house. You take defensive measures and discover a man with a gun of his own, trying to rob your family. By a stroke of luck, the crackhead doesn't see you and you blast him into next week. When the police arrive, they do the details and the witness reports and eventually you get a paragraph on one of the front pages of one of those NRA magazines. Luckily, you live in a state who trusts its citizens enough to enforce Castle Doctrine. It sure was a lot different when you lived in New York.
Some of that was tongue in cheek but I think you get my drift. WE are the govt and to think anything else is lying to ourselves. It means we have to do a lot more than just vote. We are obligated to defend and protect our rights.
Anonymous, I must say, that I have to give you credit as you are the epitome of your side of the argument for gun control. Actually I think you are a shining embodiment and advocate for your side. Obviously anyone that thinks to the contrary must be in alignment with the views of Stalin and Hitler. Gee, I never thought of it that way. Thank you for so much for the history lesson. It would really be appreciative of you, if you could submit your data of Florida wildlife and your observations of lead poisoning of migratory wildlife to the biologist in your state. I am sure they will reverse all of their studies after your observations. I really have to tell ya, your comment of ",death before absolute government tyrany." IS ABSOLUTELY CLASSIC! Wow! sorta of like the quote from Patrick Henry "GIVE ME DEATH OR GIVE ME LIBERTY"! You know what Anonymous, I have just changed my views on this subject. How dare England or Stalin or Hitler tell me what to do! Give me lead! or give me death!!!! UH! just one question John, Whom is the tyrant that I should say this to?
Got one already but did not put it down fast enough, it made it to the hole a few feet away which got me very upset but I 'm sure it died quickly from what I can tell from the blood trail and shot placement. Those things are dang strong. I watched some videos on youtube where they got shot with a 30-06, passed out, woke up and ran away! 
