I recently picked up my tuned with a new Macari spring kit C1 carbine in 177. cal and really have fallen in love with this gun. Herb has really been on the mark about his love for carbines. Light weight, powerful, and easy to tote in the field and pull to the target. I am now getting my 460. detuned and have been thinking that if I ever want another powerfull mag. for a hunter, it may be the 350 carbine. and just detune it a little to smooth it out . It may be a little easier to tote to the field. Just a thought.
Question, what is the new RWS 350 Feuerkraft Pro? It is advertised as 1000 fps in 22.cal. I though the high velocity boys would be jumping on this gun. Is it a spanish version Diana?
I prefer a one quart canteen too :-)Nice not feeling like a pack
mule or jacka**!
My 460M .22 launched RWS Hobbies at 940ish fps MV so I don't
doubt there are some 350M .22s launching Hobbies at higher
900s or pretty close to 1000.
IMO Diana should have made the 350M carbines 42" OAL. It'd
still be less than arduous to cock for a fella in fairly good
condition. Gravy for a fella use to Patriot/Kodiaks, 1250/Extremes
and Theoben Eli/Crows.
A 350M .22 pro tuned 42" OAL and producing 20 FPE would IMO be
about as sweet as a Venom Tommy .22. 20 FPE in .22 is more than
enough much of the time for most smallbore airgunning chores.
Hi Dave....look at this link for the German Diana Site
April 8 2008, 8:37 AM
The Feuerkraft (translation=firepower) is NOT listed on the German Diana site. They DO show the carbine-length variation of the standard 350 Mag.
If you would do me a favor partner, click on the link below and go look at them....pay attention to the FPS rating (1250 FPS in .177 and 860 FPS in .22).
I have not gotten my hands on one of these "Feuerkraft" guns to take apart and inspect, but I have this SNEAKING SUSPECION that rotten ol’ RWS/Umarex has preformed one of two actions:
They have taken a 350 Mag and preformed a HOTROD tune (added spacing to the OEM spec).<--- I'm putting my money on Number 1
They have convinced Diana to configure a NEW 350 Mag JUST for the American Market.<--- I find this one HARD TO BELIEVE!!
Now I don't know what DIANA Mayer & Grammelspacher GmbH & Co. KG 's corporate policy is about rolling out a new model for 1 market place, but knowing the corporate mind-set in general as well as I do, I can't see Diana designing a whole new receiver/compression chamber assembly and all of the necessary parts to go with it just to claim another 80 FPS over the Umarex-claimed 920 FPS in .22 cal.
Think of what would be necessary to gain 80 FPS (claimed) as far as the air chamber and internals are concerned...think of the cost of "tooling up" the factory for a new gun...and for what - another 80 FPS !??!?!?!??
So my thought goes right back to overspacing an OEM 350 Mag. spring. Would the gun not then have harsher" firing characteristics? If other details were not addressed to make the internals function more efficiently (especially the air flow), the answer would be YES.
Harsher eh? Well, if a person who was just getting into adult airguns got one and shot it, might that person just think that the gun was "REALLY A BIG SHOOTER AND POWERFUL" and NOT think of it as being "harsh"? I'll bet a dollar to a dime that they would experience what I call the "WOW!!" factor since they might not have a basis of comparison (like to a gun with a more subtle firing characteristic).
I have no proof and all of this is just speculation, but to me, if the company that MANUFACTURERS the product doesn't show it off on their OWN site, and yet they DO have a gun JUST LIKE the one in question but shooting different specs....well....I know what that makes ME think!!!!
I tried calling Umarex to ask about this as I made these same comments on a post asking about the Feuerkraft a few weeks or so ago and I would like to know the FACTS of this matter so I don't talk out my rear-end if I am ever asked about these guns....Nobody answered and I WILL NOT leave a message with THAT company....shouldn't have called in the first place! They totally )(*)(^%*#(*$) bug the )&(*^*&^*#)$R(#(_ out of me...
DIANA Mayer & Grammelspacher GmbH & Co. should find a different US importer ASAP!!! I honestly don't think that they REALLY know just how bad Umarex REALLY IS!!!!!!!!!
Respectfully submitted for your contemplation,
-Curtis
PS...Sorry if I seem agitated, but I'm out of coffee this morning and only have 2 smokes left. That is not a good time to start thinking of Umarex - LOL
Curtis I agree with you on every single thing you posted. Except maybe that Diana does not know that Urmarex is selling out the name. I think it is a marketing strategy to come into alignment with Gamo, and Beeman withstanding the R series. I just wonder if this gun is really made in Germany or is it made in Spain like some of the other RWS guns. Either way, it is sleazy selling and you do not know who to trust any more. Did you see anywhere on PA where this gun is made? I contacted Umarax about another issue and they referred me to a guy I do not know from Umarax named Steve. I will e-mail him later this evening. I would hate to put money like that thinking I had a original Diana and find out is is nothing but a gamo. Sorry If I seem agitated, but I think I need a smoke. (and I do not even smoke.)
I just contacted PA about the new 350. First she told me the gun was faster than the standard model because it is has a shorter barrel. When I told her I was refering to the standard long barrel model she did not know why, but to say that it is made in Germany. And 100 fps is not that much faster and that it is the new model from RWS. hum? I told her that I thought that 100 fps was very much faster in the air gun world and she just said well everyone just wants more speed. I then asked her if all the 350's would now have that speed? Again she did not know. I then asked to speak to one of the technicians and she told me, that he would not know any more than she. I asked a second time and she refused again. Obviously she does not have a clue any more than the consumer.
I contacted Steve requesting info about the New "Feuerkraft" 34 and 350 guns. Hopefully he may actually know SOMETHING! Here is his e-mail if any one else would like to know also.
Ok, here I go again w/my big mouth. Ryan/Glenn. It pains me to lose my friends here @ Diana Werks because they have been unhappy w/ Umarex. As you have seen, we have lost a few. I hate that! I know you guys watch here. Instead of listing some "special deals" here every so often, have you ever considered posting here as an "airgunner"?? I for one would give you a warm welcome for shure. You guys both are in control of a big company that we all here rely on to provide us w/ the Diana guns we love. Seems to me like you guys must love airguns as well. Ryan/Glenn,,If you post a new tread here,(as Ryan/Glenn,personal) I will step out to welcome you. I hope you guys will consider my welcome. Regards, Tim.
The Beeman Box Tune is more likely whats been done to the 350 here. Add a few fancy cosmetic bits, a some flashy packaging and 100 fps to the labeling and presto, you have a "better, more powerful version" of the 350. Doc Beeman was a pro at this, and it sells lots of guns. Don't believe any of the hype until the gun is actually in hand and tested. Only then should you speculate as to whats been done to the gun by Umarex.
Dave as you say," The Beeman Box Tune is more likely whats been done to the 350 here. Add a few fancy cosmetic bits, a some flashy packaging and 100 fps to the labeling and presto, you have a "better, more powerful version" of the 350."
I believe that you are speculating this much too.
For my English not being good, it sounds to me you suggest through speculation that American Umarex is making the fraud of the consumer by wrong advertising. I am sure that such actions of business is not legal in your country as well. For my thinking I would be more able to believe that the gun is to be altered after arriving to the United States from Germany.
This man before that spoke before so well did say that if the manufacturer makes such a gallant gun that it must surly be on their own website even for the Mp/s specification not to be for the United States. Is it so that the importer would be the company to modify the gun to United States specification and not a distributor for that would make the warranty of the importer to be not valid any longer for a distributor’s customer who would buy the American gun if it was in need to be returned to the distributor for repairs.
Have YOU seen this box of a different couleur and the words of fraud of the Feuerkraft that you spoke of in the beginning, for if you have not then I will end my speaking with more of this same quote that you ended with.
Don't believe any of the hype until the gun is actually in hand and tested. Only then should you speculate as to what’s been done to the gun OR THE BOX by Umarex.
With all due respect Jean-Claude, I would think that both Diana and their Distributor would at least post some information about a NEW gun before it goes to the retailers to sell to the public. How come Ummarex does not post this information? Why is it that Diana RWS can't just take the time to place it on their website? Why do the retailers not have a clue what they are selling? Is this really so much to ask? RWS is a great gun, but their marketing is not even worth one American dollar in Germany currency. I guess it is just a very big secret and some poor guy is just take a wild guess and toss out hundreds of dollars on a gun that he does not even know where the heck it is made. Heck, is it a Ruger, a bam, was it made in Spain, was it made in China, is this the new standard in fps with these guns from now on? As they say in America SHOW ME THE MONEY!
I'm all over this one...gonna find out what's up if it kills me!
When Steph gets back from her Aunt's next week, I am gonna have her talk to the boys over at Diana of Germany (German/French are her 1st/2nd Languages and much better than my poor Euro-diction -lol-).
I agree with you though...why is all of this so seemingly mysterious? It's like a dang B&W Bogart movie...a real WHO DONE IT...lol
Oh, I think that Jean-Claud was addressing the "other Dave", but he DID make a good point; that being:
If Diana of Germany has these guns under a different name with different FPS specs, and IF Umarex-USA is the importer/warranty service, then if the distributors like PyramydAir modded the guns to sell to THEIR customers, and IF the gun EVER needed warranty work, wouldn't the warranty as offered by Umarex-USA be void as the gun was modded.
I am looking at a RWS Limited Lifetime Warranty card right now and they are very clear that if the gun is modded, the warranty is void.
I have seen where PA HAS offered modded guns that THEY had modded, but they stated in BIG LETTERS that the gun had been modded and the warranty was voided because of that.
Here is a link to one of those guns on the PA site...
My point is that PA has always been honest and forthright in my many experiences with them....even as a simple viewer of their website.
So again, if Diana of Germany is not making these 350 Mag version guns to match 1000FPS in .22 claims, and if PA is not claiming to have modded the gun as they did, much to their credit and honesty, with the Drozd as in the link above, then that still leads me back to YOU KNOW WHO in my self-professed "narrow-of-vision" way of thinking.
Your buddy,
-Curtis
Oh yeah...how is that Fine-A**ed Santa Rosa working for ya?
Hi Curtis, I called Umrarex today (what a nightmare) finally got someone on the line. He basically sounded like a repeat of the PA girl. He did not even know they were advertising different speeds. In all fairness to him, I just kept hitting extensions until I landed a human body. I could not even get the receptionist after 5 attempts. This has really become a challenge. I do not think anyone in America has the answer nor Germany. Maybe Jan in the Netherlands knows something.
By the way, the Santa Rosa in sitting warm in MZ's shop waiting to get tuned. I did however shoot the C1 today, and that gun is so fun to shoot! Thanks for asking/
Jean-Claude, if that were the case every airgun dealer in this country would be in jail. Its common practice to have advertised velocities unobtainable using available pellets. Maximum power is the main selling point for most airgun retailers. Beeman Airguns has always done it. A good example- the .177 Webley Hurricane pistol. The Beeman box it came in clearly states 500fps, reality says low 400s, maybe 450 if you are lucky. The Beeman Box Tune- if the labeling says 500 fps, it must be right , no? How is the consumer to know different. The majority don't have things like the chronograph to tell them differently.
Every Chinese gun sold here has or had amazing velocities in the advertising, usually 200-300 fps faster than reality. They must use plastic pellets to test them. Gamo is notorious for this also.
As to speculation, take a look at the numbers posted at Pyramidair- The regular 350 Magnum lists cocking effort as 36 lbs, barrel 19.25", 1150 fps in .177.
The 350 Feuerkraft lists cocking effort at 33 lbs, barrel 19.63", 1250 fps in .177.
How is it that with the same barrel and less cocking effort velocity is 100 fps more? The carbine with the 15" barrel is still shooting at 1250 fps with 4" lopped off the end of the barrel? Cocking effort is up a few pounds accordingly but thats to be expected from a shortened barrel. Somethings gotten a tune up, either the box or the gun. The difference in price is only about $25, hardly what you'd expect if PA had a gunsmith tuning these guns for them, even if it was in-house.
Well yesterday I sent a e-mail to Steve at Umarex as was given to me by Diana (Germany) telling me they would not answer my question and to contact him. Well, I should have posted in the e-mail to send it to "Blue Boy" the guy holding his breath. No reply at all.
there is a BIG disconnect between UMAREX (USA) and Diana (Germany), the right hand does not have a clue of what the left one is doing or going to do!!
the marketing "tricks" are well and alive in the "boxed tuned air gun" Dave (arathol) talks about, slap a one line that stated "1,250 fps" and PRESTO, instant selling point, I know because my 460 came in a box with "the most powerfull RWS" and that my friends' is just not TRUE
these new variations of the 350 are marketed specifically for the USA market, I will bet they will not sell as well in Europe. I lived in Europe for many years and they are of the traditional mind set. these new 350's are made to have a scope on them, the fps advertised, the flash carton box smells to me as something UMAREX is doing and not Diana
I will ask more questions to my friends across the BIG pond about this issue
warren
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
Ok, Lets review what we know... Dianawerk is a factory in Germany making Diana's. RWS/Dynamit Nobel is a distributor and possibly manufacturer (in spain and other places) of both airguns (such as the 850) and regular firearms and munitions. RWS/Dynamit Nobel owns/is partnered with Dianawerks. Umarex is THE single U.S. importer/distributor of all products under the RWS umbrella this includes Diana's. Umarex is also tied to Walther and Smith & Wesson and a few others (though I am not sure exactly how...)Pyramyd Air is a large airgun supply retailer that gets it's stock of anything RWS/Diana/Walther/Beretta etc... from Umarex.
So if the question is who makes the feurkraft? then the answer is Dianawerks.
if the question is why make a different model/version for the U.S. market? then that answer has to come from Umarex.
Regardless of who came up with the idea of " feuerkraft" this is a marketing ploy of grand proportions aimed at the U.S. market.Oddly enough Diana calls it
the Classic, I read their websight in German nowhere is " feurkraft" mentioned.
Pyramid mentions it. any other dealers mention it? a Pyramide SCHEME?
WE have no restrictions on power over here, unlike the English and most of Europe Canada. For this we are a lucky bunch.Feuerkraft" was made for us.
But who??? A marketing genius that's who. Got us all in a tizzy, having a good laugh thats what. keep our juices flowing, has improved our brain cell activity.
As a group many airgun shooters want more power in their airguns, if that were not the case we would not buy the superduper, we would be satisfied with the mid level power but noooo.Got to have more speed, more power, harder hitting,longer range what ever. that's just the way we are.Vicious cycle.
My experience with Umarex and the folks that I have talked to there is that something is afoot at the company level, The employees are edgy I got the impression that they were tired, unhappy and concerned about something. One senses these things.
So until we get our hands on Superduper and dissect its guts, knowing what the differences are between a Fuerkraft and a regular model. So who's gonna be the guinea pig?
