Most of you here at Dianawerks are old enough to know who Red Skelton was.A comedian by trade but a very thoughtful and kind man,with the wisdom to look ahead and see things as they might be someday.As we all know there are some on the left who are in a fight over church and state who want all Religious articles and words removed from all government, buildings,schools, money and even the Pledge of Allegiance.Also in my personal opinion our current administration has forgotton who the Government is,it is we the people not one figure head or administration.
It amazes me Red could forsee this in 1969.
Click here to hear What he had to say 39 years ago.
The Pilgrims came here to escape the persecution of a State with an 'official' of their 'sect'. They didn't want others to ever go through the same thing, so set things in motion for the eventual establishment of order as it basically is now (i.e., a substantial demarcation between State/Church).
'One nation, indivisible' - the original pledge. The 1954 addition 'under God' was prompted by the Catholic "Knights of Columbus" (ironic, as Catholics have seen their share of persecution). Given the 'godless Red-scare McCarthyism' oy the time, the political climate was ripe for something as safe as a politician affirming personal beleief in God (sound familiar?), and legislating it into the pledge.
To your (excellent) point - "Also in my personal opinion our current administration has forgotten who the Government is (AGREED!),it is we the people not one figure head or administration" - please remember that some of "We the people" are atheist. One does not have to accept their view to respect their right to see the world as they do, and to (at least intellectually) empathize with their view that one would as soon believe in the Easter Bunny as in God. Why would they (or anyone else) want a goverment that incorporates the Easter Bunny into the Pledge?
While it is fairly easy to get caught up in misty-eyed, nostalgic Nationalism, until we are ready to accept sanctioned Druid, Satanist, Santa Ria, Animist, etc. and <GASP!> Muslim religious presence in government - and not just 'my' religion, 'my' commandments, 'my' conception of God's existence (or non-existence) - then perhaps its best to accept that keeping church and state separated may be the best way to go about it? To those that argue against it, the introduction of religious concepts to government contitutes a slippery slope.
It is well to bear in mind that what 'the People' were guaranteed by the foundational documents was freedom OF religion. Some highly vocal elements in current society seem to have chosen to believe that they were guaranteed freedom FROM religion. Nothing could be further from the truth. Those who wrote those founding documents upon which this nation was built were to a great extent Deists rather than any specific sect. Even so the principles and morality that they brought to the table in Philidelphia were derived from the teachings of Christian sects in which they were reared. They reserved the right of religious freedom and seperation of church and state to 'the People'. They in no fashion, by rule of law nor intent, made any promises of freedom FROM religion despite all of the spurious protestations of the ACLU and some militant athiests with a fervor that would shame a tent Evangelist. It is instructional that they are the ones who are attempting to impose their standards and not the other way round. It is past interesting that their clamor to remove all traces of a Supreme Being from American society is a major part of Lenins' instructions to HIS followers for deconstructing a free society and form of government. Mere happenstance or something more? That is for each thinking individual to decide to his own satisfaction.
Perhaps it would be revelatory to consider what one of the leading authors of our Constitution had to say concerning the place of the Christian religion in American society and governance:
"We have staked the whole future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."----James Madison
The other principle author had this to say on the subject:
"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?" --Thomas Jefferson
While John Adams, another of the Founders said:
"You have the rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe."
It is also enlightening to consider the words of the Congress of 'the People' in an act seminal to the establishment of public schools in newly acquired territories:
“Religion, morality and knowledge being necessary to government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall be forever encouraged,”---Congress, Northwest Ordinance of 1787
The order of importance I find of paricular interest. Tom
While the thoughts of the framers can provide an interesting constitutional backdrop, please note that neither the word 'God' nor the concept of 'God' made the final cut. James Madison may have been keen on the Ten Commandments, but he was also smart enough to not introduce them to The Constitution. http://www.constitutioncenter.org/explore/TheU.S.Constitution/index.shtml
This wasn't an accident.
"Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances".
This is pretty explicit: "Stay out of it", the not-so-subtle message. It is a Protection from interference, certainly not an invitation for governmental participation and/or endorsement. It does in fact guarantee freedom From religion for those that care to be free from it, as it prohibits the government from adopting one, or forcing one upon us.
What does this have to do w/ airguns? Absolutely nada, unless you worship them, so I is stoppin' here.
That my religion should not limit even the perception of liberty of those who do not believe in a God. That no free man or woman look upon my faith and think that anything but the internal contest of one's own conscience overstep their bounds, save the constitution of this nation.
The laws of the individual states, counties and districts are our first calling and I fear that we have seperated ourselves too cleanly from remembering that we are our govt, not some foreign or abstractly elevated entity on our soil. That somehow the government is divided from each adult individual. Our government is our personal responsibility.
Harvey is right in my book maybe not in others and that is what makes this country great
as I recall in the history of the USA there has been many conflicts and the son's of liberty have answered all of them, let them be from whatever religion they are they have more that stood to the adversities of this country
Harvey writes "Our Government is our personal responsibility" and I will add Make it your priority. The laws of the land are nothing without the beliefs in your heart, which ever they might be
Many, many of our members here, including ocassional posters, don't see the
Stars and Stripes waving in the breeze when they look out of their windows. It's easy to assume that we are all Americans here. I guess this point and counter-point must be amusing to them.
"You can always tell a German,
You can always tell the Dutch,
You can always tell a Yankee,
But you can't tell him much."
Stepar, it's nice to see someone up on their history. I wish history could be made more accurate with post like yours rather than a lot of the usual rhetoric. Your comment "While it is fairly easy to get caught up in misty-eyed, nostalgic Nationalism, until we are ready to accept sanctioned Druid, Satanist, Santa Ria, Animist, etc. and <GASP!> Muslim religious presence in government" was right on the mark! The beginning of the Iraq, we witnessed Patriotism exploited to justify a bogus war. The results speak for themselves. Religious organizations in America have become more than just a religion. They are a political machines that are very influential in us government with strong influence in foreign policy. A perfect example is The main Zionist lobbying group is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee known by its acronym (AIPAC). AIPAC works in conjunction with many other Zionist organizations like the American Jewish Committee, the original 100 year old, Zionist group with a chapter in every Jewish community throughout the world. Money has poured into both the repulican party as well as the democratic party to sway foreign policy. Check out their website, the actually boost how they have bought policy.
Three of the worlds greatest bigots Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell,and John Hagee preach more hatred then any men I have ever heard yet these man welded great influence on government policy. The ties to Zionism with these groups is staggering and there hatred for all Muslims is no secret. Let's not leave out the gay's in America. Down here in Virginia Beach where CBN is located, Pat Robertson made the news when he refused to allow gays to worship in HIS CHURCH! Funny, I always thought any church was "GODS HOUSE"! While we have religious fredom in America, one wonders for how much longer.
