I´m considering to get a good English airgun. A person have offered me an almost new Patriot (made in England), but he said that the spring system was replaced by a gas ram kit. The work have done by Steve Pope.
I do have a HW 90 gas ram rifle, and I like both systems, spring and gas ram.
Does anybody own a Patriot gas ram ?.
My question is how is the performance and behavior of the gas ram Patriots compared with the regular spring Patriots: power, recoil,shooting cycle, accuracy, etc.
.........if it was an ENGLISH Patriot!!!! Heck, if you don't want it, I'll take it!
I have not seen Mr. Pope's work, but I hear that he does great work with the gas ram conversions on a variety of guns!
Once upon a time, I had 2 Patriots and 1 Kodiak in .22 and a .25 barrel for both of the Patriots to share. I loved them after I tuned them as it made the cocking action smoother which made the guns feel easier to cock, although it didn't change the pull weight at all, it just made them FEEL that way and the trigger was much much better!
I had a gas ram in one of the Patriots and I liked it MUCH more than the springs!!!!!!!
The only real benefit that I noticed was that there was no torquing when the gun fired which is a SUPER big deal with a Patriot or Kodiak and improved lock time. Springs rotate when compressing and when uncoiling (durring firing) and that causes the gun to torque (twist) when fired.
I am sure that you already know this as you have a GREAT gas ram gun in the HW90!! Just don't expect the trigger of the Patriot to be as good as the Rekord trigger in the HW90...once you get used to the Rekord trigger it is hard to like anything else....ya just have to accept each gun as being different. A trigger tune on the Patriot is WELL worth the money!!
As for the power, recoil,shooting cycle, accuracy, etc.
Power = Excellent.
Recoil = Same as with factory spring.
Shot cycle = Improved lock time.
Accuracy = Very Excellent as the gun didn't torque (twist) when firing.
Again, if it IS an English Patriot, I would get it in a heart beat as fast as I could!!!!!!!!
This is really no big deal, but when I was talking about the trigger on YOUR HW90 I called it the "REKORD" trigger....actually, if I remember correctly, the gas ram HW90 has the "Elite" trigger, which is still a great adjustable trigger, but I just had to make this correction as I hate to say the wrong thing or give inaccurate informaiton.
I was in bed last night thinking about the Patriot that you talked about and that is when I realized my error, but I was too tired to come back and make the update to correct my mistake.
I apologize for the inaccurate reference...
-Curtis
PS....Did ya get the Patriot yet?!?!?!? Cause if ya didn't (((( I )))) want it if it IS English!!!! (laugh)
I have been looking for an English Patriot for a long time now, but can't find a one that is in good shape...very sad.
Thanks a lot for your very valuable information.Your point of view is very interesting because you owned both guns !.
Yes, the Elite trigger is wonderful; I find it as good as the Rekord of the HW 80.
The Patriot for sell is a .22.
It´s interesting that you also have owned a Theoben Eliminator, and a Magnum 350. I also have a 350 and I love it. Why did you sold your Patriots and the Theobens ???
I hope that you don´t mind if I ask you:
-Which specific details are of less quality in the Turkish Patriots ?.
-What would be a fair price for an almost new English Patriot ( or Beeman Kodiak ) ?
- How do you compare the Theoben Eliminator with the gas ram Patriot and with the 350 ?
- Which scope brand do you prefer for use in all these high recoil guns, that consistently maintain the zero ?
Teo, like Curtus tells you in his ( like always ! ) superb and informative answer: be sure it's an ENGLISH Webley and you will buy something good and genuine. Perhaps the AA TX200 MK 3 is a nice alternative ( 100% British ) or the Theoben Eli. ( gas ram and 100% British ). Best regards from Johannis.
You hit the (x)...good call on the advice to alternative guns.
I just sold my 2 Eliminators that shot like champs....they were just too nice to take out in the desert hunting....I never put them down on the rocks or dirt as they were just TOO nice to do that to, so I had to hold them in my lap when I stopped to rest.....major pain in the rear end. I kind of miss them, but I DO love my good ol trusty .22 350s that I can lean up against rocks and not feel guilty.
Again, great call on the alternative guns!
PS....I almost have enough info to email to you about the long distance shooting and the info to make the 48 a good long distance shooter.
Sincerely,
-Curtis
Again, if it IS an English Patriot in .22 or .25, GET IT as FAST as you can!!!!!!!
I was looking feverishly in Nov & Dec. for a Webley Patriot or Beeman Kodiak. Had a great opportunity to purchase a Kodiak for $425 but the information on the gun was very shaky. The guy did not know (or didn't want to say) how old the SantaRosa stamped gun was, and thought he was the 3d owner but wasn't sure. I also could not tell what condition it was in from the pics but it definitely did not look like it was in great condition like he had explained. He said it was in "average" condition. I offered $400 and he declined. I then got a little annoyed by the lack of information and the fact that I would have to spend good $ to get it properly tuned, etc. which made this a much more expensive gun. A week later I changed my mind and offered to purchase it for the asking price but was told the gun was spoken for. Since then I did find a couple of more used English made Patriots/Kodiaks but all were in the $600 range and with the cost of tuning they presented an expensive proposition, and kind of gave up on them. But that's ok I 'm happy with what I got or "will have"
Harry, I wished I had known about the Kodiak with the Santa Rosa stamp on it at that price. Going with the adage that "OLDER IS BETTER" in the air gun world is something to think about. The "Santa Rosa" stamp alone would have make the rifle something of value. I have three vintage guns now. The Beeman C1 and a HW30 Mk11, and a R7 with a Santa Rosa stamp. The C1 and the HW 30 may have had 1 owner or 4, really does not make a difference to me. And I had them tuned as I would with any purchase so that is not of real concern. They now shoot wonderfully. They are now treasures of mine and would not trade them for any new gun. I hope someday to get a Vintage R8. These are just my opinions and something to think about in the future. Good luck with you quest for another nice gun.
Thanks for your input. I have to confess that I´m rather confused with the real quality of these Turkish Webleys, because according with Tom Gaylord review, they are fine,and a USA airgun dealer also told me that they are as good as the English.
On the other hand, several persons told me that the English Webleys are far superior......
grab it. Steve Pope is for those that aren't aware one of the top airgun builders across the pond in the UK, the man formerly behind the Webley Venom custom shop. Since Webleys demise he has formed a new company, V-Mach Airguns. If Steve Pope actually did the work, you can bet it is top notch.
Yes, I know the quality level of Steve Pope work. I did not see the gun yet, but, just in case, I´ll have to confirm that S. Pope really did the work !
