I cant believe I had the guts to do this to one of my Diana Ladys! Results are overwealmingly positive. The cut was very smooth & true. The recrown came out real nice. With my new muzzle break from Gene at Air Gun Toys, it is even easyer to cock than before, most important after about 50 shots (newly cleaned barrel) its grouping GREAT! It handles well & is more fun than ever to shoot! Thanks BB Gun Bob for pushing me into doing this mod. ( I still say my old "Evil Chrony" has turned you into the Devil! LOL! A great day for me indeed! Tim.
I'm thinking of doing the same thing to my RWS 48 and fitting a shroud (for quietness)
Why did you choose 14 inch ? How did you re crown the barrel ?
Did accuracy improve and did you pick up any fps.
I'm thinking of doing the same thing to my RWS 48 and fitting a shroud (for quietness)
Why did you choose 14 inch ? How did you re crown the barrel ?
Did accuracy improve and did you pick up any fps.
Was a HUGE succsess! I honestly could not be happyer with the outcome of what I deemed a huge gamble! Stewart,,I recrowned it from advice from my friend Howie at GTA forum. James,Accuracy is GREAT, I feel I can group better than before! Harry,, Oh my Buddy Harry! I swear it is easyer to cock now with that nice big easily graspable muzzle break! Shorter faster stroke too! (promise!) Got to cut this short guys, my son John just got his first crow!! (it was in our garden) Man is he proud!! Harry check "hunting" at GTA in a few min.! Russ/ZVP,, can we get a hunting section here?? Back soon guys! Tim.
did you cut 4" out of 19.5" that leaves you with 15.5" plus the muzzel break CORRECT!!
just talked to Howie from the GTA forum, lives in St. Pete, FL good advice from him and I am 57 years old, he is 70, clear as a glass on air guns and an inspiration for me and others that want some good old guidance
warren
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
Nice job Tim,I knew you could do it all it takes is the guts to hack the 1st barrel.I can see it now ! No more long barreled guns at Tim's house.It makes a real sharp looking rifle ya got there Tim,and I do believe a one of a kind.Being a 350M with a 14" barrel.
The first one I did I read all sorts of info and all the pros and cons,then I asked Rich in Mich(the Chop-Master).His opinion.He gave me correct information I could never find in a forum.
You chose the perfect length according to everyone I ever talked to who were in the know for a springer.I can't wait to see a few of your numbers off the EVIL CHRONY te he he.
NICE JOB ! ! !
BBGun Bob
PS I just finshed a 1962-1968 CR 140 Semi Steriod and the dang trigger does not want to cooperate?? Tomorrow is another day.
I'll get it !
Hey Devil Bob! Its not 14", I went with specs. from the new Feuerkraft Pro Compact from Diana. 15 3/4". I gotta figure they know more than me. Man it works!! I could not be happyer with the results! Looking now for links from my friends here to back posts I have seen regarding a fine "polish" on the crown. I remember seeing them. Man Im on fire!! One "chopped" brl.,, one dead rat,,one dead a$$ crow,,& I have work again this week!! Life is GOOD!! Talk at ya soon my Frinds,Tim.
Dear Diana friends, after sitting a while and having a look to Tim's amputation of his 350 Magnum barrel the question: "does size really matter ??" Is it important how long the barrel is or can we cut it to what we find visual acceptable ? I am very curious to this unusual actions and I am wondering what's the right barrel length for my 48, my Stutzen and what is the best length for the 460 Magnum barrel ? I GUESS TIME HAVE COME TO START A NEW TREND: CONVERT THE DIANA'S TO CARBINE'S ?? Kind regards from Johannis. ( Tim, perhaps you're the trensetter of a new genaration Diana carbine's !! )
that there isn't enough "scientific" information or testing done on the shortening of barrels and its effects. If there is, I haven't read it on line or run into it.
I 'd be curious what it does to velocity. Although I think the difference is very miminal if any, I 'm still curious to see what the before & after velocity #'s are on a Chrony. I also keep hearing that it makes the shot cycle quicker, which is good for accuracy, BUT are there any adverse effects inside the gun that we don't know about, especially on a factory stock setup? ie: a gun that has not been tuned for efficiency?
PS.
Chopper-Tim was chopping way before he cut his 350's barrel. He was chopping heads off turtles and other creatures with his 54 and 350
the barrel has grooves 1/14, 1/16, 1/18 or 1/20 twists in the air guns because of pellet weight and velocity the 1/14 through 1/16 twists are predominant
that leaves you with a barrel between 14" and 19.5" in lenght depending on your pellets and grain weight
the barrel that is 1/16 twists with a 16 inch lengh when cut will give you 1/12 because you cut 4" and 1/4 of the twist, that means 16-4=12
warren
PS: physics, math and my opinion, correct me and we advance
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
My Friend Johannis & All my other Diana Werks Friends,, I did not take the desision to "chop" the brl. on my newest favorite Diana lightly!! I did more than you can see in my lousy pics. I practiced on some old brls. before hand. I was confident I could achieve a very nice smooth/true cut & keep the temp. cool with water. The lenth of 15.75" I chose was no wild guess on my part,, The new Feuerkraft Pro Compact 350 has that lenth,,I gotta figure they know what they are doing!! The recrown came out great as well. I could not be happyer with the results,I can hit with it better than before, groups are better! Maybe Im just trying harder?LOL! Tim.
Cutting a barrel does in no way affect the rate of twist. Think about it. If it made one turn in 16 in before the cut, and you took off 4 in, now it makes 3/4 of a turn in 12 in. - equals one turn in 16 in, same as before. Cutting metal off the end of a barrel does not move the existing rifling to a faster or slower pitch, come on. Once the grooves are cut, I don't think they move...
A 10 foot brl. will result in more "turns",,A 15.75 will result in less "turns",,, the rate, of course stays the same. Man Im glad Im just a simple minded Red Neck!! LOL! Tim.
Changing the barrel length won't change the twist rate any more than cutting a bolt will change the thread pitch. The twist rate is merely a number that tells you how many revolutions the rifling makes, usually expressed as how many inches it takes to make on complete revolution. It doesn't matter how many times the pellet goes around before it exits, what matters is what its doing when it does exit. Whether 1/12 or 1/16, that is the rate of revolution when the pellet leaves the rifling no matter how long the barrel is.
Hi, Jan, I thought I would just throw my two cents in about Your comment "Does Size really matter". Well, unfortunately in modern American culture, it does matter and is more like an obsession. (not referring to Tim's gun).America is a country programed to "SUPER SIZED". Big Mac's, Whoopers, Super size fries, Big Gulps, All you can eat resturants, Tub of Popcorn,gas guzzling Suv's, It is really most evident on the Dianawerk forum. Many of the discussions center on the 350. mag. and the high velocities, heavy kodiak pellets,POWER SPRINGS,POWER KITS etc. I have had a few of my guns tuned by a true craftsman. Unfortunately he gave up tuning guns for most folks, because they could not appreciate the fine precise tunes he performed, because the main interest was how fast it performed on a "chrony" after the tune.
I own one carbine, a C1 specifically designed by Dr. Beeman to be a carbine. I own two RWS rifles (mdl. 34 and 460) and one of the main things I love about the guns, is the classic looks. I could never "chop" my 34. It is a German crafted gun and a classic. I can't imagine taking a German made clock and modding the looks any more than I could enter a All you can eat restaurant. What a shame American's do not enjoy 10 meter rifles. The poster "Missy's Dad and ZVP are about the only one's I can think of that have posted about the great Diana model 75. With all due respect Jan, you now seem to post more about 100 meter shoots with high power guns than you do 10 meters
All that said, I totally respect Tims decision to chop his Diana. It is a demonstration of "American Ingenuity". His gun looks great and it seems to shoot very good. He is obviously very proud and happy and this is what is really important. The same with the guys that do every thing they can to gain each foot per second.
IMO
Dave@vabch
ps having Blanquette de veau for Sunday's dinner, can't wait
But, if the firing cycle and accuracy are good, you got away with it. So, if you ever try to use looser or lighter pellets, it may kick you a bit--and beat up your scope, too. Just be aware of it.
Ed, thanks for the heads up on chopping a barrel and what could happen. 350. mags are becoming cheaper and cheaper on todays market and if I ever pick up used one at a low price, I will just send it off to a pro to be choked and lathed for the low cost of $45.00. The peace of mind alone is worth that.
Some people understand me wrong: I like the shortening of ( actually ) to long air rifles and what Tim did here can become a very good / nice trend in the way to "Diana Carbines". Well Tim: congratulations and one of these days your carbine will be complete with a super mount ! Best regards from Johannis.
Hi Johannis. Thank you for the ever so kind words. What I did to my 350 may seem barberic to some,, what about the methods used by some to get rid of barrel droop?? My calculated shortining of my barrel pales in comparison to some of those methods.Much more of an accepted modification IMO. I have now put almost 500 CPHP,s thru it & all is very well!! Yes Jan,, I call the wife every day,, have you checked the mail?? The Dampa scope mount will shurly be here soon!! Its on a long journey! LOL! Thank you my Friend, I cant wait! Was on the phone with Warren last night, again he was telling me how awesome that mount is! I cant wait! I will be at my local gun shop this weekend,, shoot me an E-Mail before then if you need anything my Friend. Tim.
Hey Dave Va Bch, Im so sorry I did not answer your post. Thank you for your kind words & how you backed me up on my Diana 350 "chop job". What does M.Z. think of what I did?? Have you told him, or has he seen my posts?? Bill S thank you as well for the post. 500 rounds later, Im loving "Ole Chopper" even more!! I just LOVE shooting this tuned 350 the way I have modded it, it,s AWSOME!! Tim.
I once took about 3.5 inches off a Chinese rifle. It really screwed it up. I suspect that it now is expelling the pellet before the piston has finished its travel. Power is down--sound is not good.
Well Tim...first I want to thank ya for the call...was GREAT to escape the family conversations (arguing - LOL) and have some good ol airgun talk - what was it? 2hrs and 18 min.!!
I think ya did a great job...good call on using the hose for running water to keep the heat build-up under control durring the cutting process - that is thinking ahead AND thinking correctly!!!
I love the muzzle break, and since I can't see ya taking it off to shoot (LOL), the crowning job for "clean up and refinement" purposes that you did is just fine....no need to recess or bevel as muzzle breaks and shrouds protect the muzzle end anyway.
So then it comes down to choke - well, call me dumb or crazy, but I can't see ya (for knowing you as I do) buying 20 different types of pellets consistently, so if the pellets that you have selected as your "go to" favorites are not too loose and they shoot well (per your definition, not other peoples), then I think that you have hit a winner in every possible way! I will send ya an email later about "choking a barrel at home"...it will take a longer to pull the barrel off and put it back on that it will to apply the choke...IF ya ever decide that you want to do that...no special tools required beyond what you already have. I incorporate a choke on all barrels that I deal with (if none exists), but I have my choking blocks and the press that I told ya about so there is no reason for me not to do it; you'll see when I get the email out to ya.
ANYWAY...
The gun looks great
The gun shoots great (tight enough to give ol' Bugs a pierced ear - ROTFLMAO - just kidding buddy)
The results are pleasing to you as the owner and shooter
The results are pleasing, incredibly pleasing, to look at!!
I wish that I had better data on carbine length vs. longer barrels on airguns so that I could offer some intelligent input to the conversation, but my knowledge of barrel length factors is confined to large cal. powder burners (.308 and up) so I'm gonna sit this one out!!
What matters the most is that you formulated a plan, ya did research, ya took a deep breath, ya did it, and most important, the job looks great and the results (shooting AND looks) back up your plan and process!!
No Way Man!! Seemed like 15 Min. to me, thats my story& Im sticking to it! Lord I hope Harry does not see this! Harry I promise Curtis is way exaderating! Curtis,, Thank you so much for all the info you gave me,, I cant believe all the secrets you shared with me!! Sincerly I owe you Buddy. ( I will keep it between us) This coming weekend Im gonna try some "stuff"!! Look out Harry,, Curtis has tought me well!! Battle of the 350,s?? I think not,,, "Chopper" gladly takes second place to your one of a kind 350,, You are VERY lucky my Friend!! You have no idea as to what you are in for!! Tim. P.S ,,,, Call me Harry??
Why do you feel you have to defend your carbine conversion? I think that, so long as the gun works and it's not too hard to cock, it's perfectly fine. Seen a lot of Chinese guns with barrels cropped as short, if not shorter, than what you ended up with.
I don't think there should be much loss of fps, if any, from trimming a barrel. The main thing is having enough barrel length to stabilize the pellet. Once the air is expelled through the port, it's not expanding in the same manner as a slow burning powder which continues to combust in the barrel. Maybe a bit will be underutilized in a gun with a big compression chamber. Yes, it will be louder. Same as a snub nosed revolver. The closer the muzzle, the louder the perceived report. And, since you are using a scope, sight radius isn't a factor.
Dave, what's with ragging on the hundred meter posts and no tens? I have a 75 but I'm also interested in the long range shooting that Johannis is doing. They're two different disciplines.
Anyway, as I joked about in my chop post, a gun does belong to the owner. He or she is pretty much free to modify it to their liking. I would not encourage anyone to take a rare gun and butcher it. But something like a 34, which is a fairly common, more or less base-line gun (there, I've said it), shouldn't raise any cries of Nay, Nay! Restocking, barrel-lopping, and such are very much a part of the shooting sports and have been since Ogg first tossed a big old rock at Zugg, who picked it up, rounded off the rough edges to make it more aerodynamic and threw it back.
Now let's start seeing some embellishment. Engraving 101? Maybe a bit of stock work with inlays?
