hspyropoulos posted: "A tune for your gun is a..."
May 8 2008 at 11:05 AM
Lenny (no login) from IP address 206.74.149.106
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"MUST!"
Anybody owns a tuned one, and can describe all differences?
Who tunes RWS 34 best, and why you think so?
Seems lots of money. Enough to get a new RWS, so tune is that much better?
If only because that name looks to be about as hard to spell and pronounce as mine.
Tunes are for a couple of different reasons.
First off, these guns are mass-produced. The cheaper they are, the worse the finish quality. If you search on basic tunes, you will find that one of the things recommended for a new gun is to remove the spring and smooth out the inner surface of the compression tube. The holes in the tube are made by punches working from the outside in. These leave sharp edges that can nick or score piston seals, resulting in loss of power and harsher cycling since the compressed air is escaping faster than it should, allowing the piston to bounce harder. Polishing also helps reduce any friction between the spring coils and tube.
Second, any other defects can be identified and corrected. Maybe the gun has a bad piston seal from the factory. If a break barrel, is the lockup tight? Things like this can come to light with the pre-tune testing. Also, some guns come from the factory loaded up with a ton of unknown lubes while others (Slavia's, for one) are bone dry. When you get to the really cheap Chinese guns, some even come with grit from the manufacturing process. (Remember, these guns retail for about $40.) In these cases, tuning can save money since you are preventing further, expensive damage.
Third, a properly tuned gun that has had everything set to specs and lubed will handle better than a stock one. The shot cycle should be smoother, more predictable and the power level where it should be.
Of course, the more you pay, the less you will have to do. I guess some guns are so well made they don't need a tune out of the box. These would be target rifles, primarily, but you are paying for about the same thing from the factory.
Or, as John Ruskin once said,
"It is unwise to pay too much, but it is unwise to pay too little.
When you pay too much, you loose a little money; that is all.
When you pay too little you sometimes lose everything.
Because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do.
The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot.
It cannot be done.
If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run and if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."
Sometimes a tune can make a gun you would be a bit disappointed in into one you really enjoy. What's that worth?
For those of us that are lucky enough to have a gun that Jim offers a kit for it is a no brainer. Anyone can make a spring compressor and do the work themselves. The total kit with spring, guide, tophat, lubes is typically close to a 100 bucks. Considering that the gun will last you a lifetime it is money well spent and you will be glad you did it.
Now if I had to pay a couple/few hundred between work, parts, and shipping I wouldn't do it for a RWS 34/36. But I might do it for a TX200. In short I guess I am saying it would depend on the % of cost compared to the guns oringinal cost and the overall quality of the gun. It's one thing to spring for a $500 super tune on your Ferrari but kinda stupid to get one for your Yugo:)
Russ
P.S. I have a RWS 36 with Jim's kit (which I installed).
There a couple of forms of tuning. Your gun needs to at least be lubed or a "lube tune" after 1,000 shots or so because Dianas have very little lube if any from the factory. Continued shooting without the proper lubrication will only degrade the performance of your gun and lead to damage of internal parts including heavy gauling which you don't want. My 350 after 2,700 shots with no lubes whatsoever since bought new, had just started to cause some gauling but we caught it early enough.
You must remember. Springers need frequent maintenance, and so do many firearms, and even CO2 airguns needs seals, etc. Periodic internal lubes is part of a springer's maintenance. The other is spring replacement every few thousand pellets. Tuning your gun also makes it go much longer before it needs maintenance.
As far as the 34 goes, you are right, it doesn't cost much to begin with and getting even a basic tune (lube, debur, polish, etc.) with the cost of a JM spring kit will amount to the price of the 34 that it cost you originally. It's up to you how much you want to spend to keep your 34 performing optimally. It is definitly "worth it" on more expensive guns >$300 like the 48/52 and 350/460, etc. but if you are a true airgun ethousiast, you might see that spending $150 (to a tuner) to make the gun shoot at its best and make you happy, may be worth it. I was really surprised with the accuracy of my tuned 36 and how little recoil it had with 900fps velocities so that alone I think is worth it for most people.
Like everyone else said, these are mass produced guns. They are not perfect but can be so much more with a proper tune, like shoot better with no torquing or vibrations and be more accurate as well as last longer as I said earlier without as much maintenance because there will be less friction and stress on the internal parts.
Your question is a valid one and one that I 'm sure everyone has contemplated over and over before their first tune. I know I did.
go with Ed K. - the 4th one down, but get the Ultimate Tune, not the $85 one. That's just debur, polish and lubes. Your spring may need replacement and the plastic Diana guides are not up to par and cause torquing, vibrations, and your spring to fatigue faster.
CDT would do a comparable job as well. I hear good things about both.
Ed K. gets a lot of Diana business from what I hear and several people here have had their guns tuned by him. Not sure how many here had their Dianas worked on by CDT but hopefully you 'll get some more responses from people that had their guns tuned by some of the vendors you listed.
You should purchase the GRT kit ($69+ship.) from Jim Maccari's site that comes with custom guides, and have it shipped directly to Ed K. or let him buy it and put it in.
Ed can tailor the tune to your likes or depending what you use the gun for (hunting, target shooting, etc.). Power tune, OEM power, or less velocity/smoother, or both smooth with OEM power, etc. Ed can accomodate, unlike a couple of other tuners that only tune for smoothness with loss of power. Just ask him to add a custom made metal top hat which should be included in his ultimate tune, and possibly a heavy washer/spacer to bring the velocity up some if it drops off with the JM spring which definitely will a little. Ed will also mount and sight in a scope with any tune service, so you could take advantage of that as well.
E-mail him or call him and ask questions, get a price quote, etc. on the Ultimate Tune. Also get a commitment on turn-around time as some tuners have been known to hold on to your gun for a while in order to do more expensive tunes first or instead of first-come first-serve.. or they go on vacation without telling their customers. Get it done once and done right the first time.
You can chose to ask them to e-mail you a list of the tuning tasks (mods) they will perform on your gun including any and all custom parts, and copy it here for comments. Better have it in writing than a verbal agreement.
Remember, not to shoot heavy pellets with your 34, now or after it gets tuned, and it should last for many years with only some lubes now and then. Leave the heavy pellets for the 20+fpe Magnums. My tuned 36 (same powerplan as 34) sounds a little different shooting 8.9grain Beeman FTS although they are very accurate, the shot cycle is a bit different and slightly more harsh. It does seem to like 7.9 and 8.2-8.3gr pellets a lot better so I 'll stick with those. Discuss this with the tuner as well. Write down a list of questions when you call so you don't forget them.
Lenny, one of the tuners that you posted had to say this
"My #1 goal when tuning a gun is to have a pleasant shooting gun that will stay that way for a long time. If your primary goal is to have a gun that will shoot peak velocity right after the tune there are several tuners that will do this for you. I could do the same but the end result is a gun that will shoot harshly and develop spring noise after 1500-2000rnds."
I am not going to comment of my knowledge about any of the tuners that I have not had experience with. Nor give you any advice about fps etc. I have a tuner that is very highly respected and no longer tunes gun for money, but only for the love of tuning. I have the utmost respect for him and his knowledge. When he has tuned any of my guns, I do not tell him what speed I want the gun. But rather I ask him to TUNE THE GUN AS IF IT WERE YOUR OWN. I now have a tuned 34 that I would put up against any in the world. I am very fortunate.
I wish you all the luck in your tuning and believe any of the tuners you select will do a fine job for you.