Would anybody have any idea how something like this is made. http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/30/212230.html
It appears to be made from plastic so I can't see
how one would make it look so factory finished.
Jay, they are .25 models, some of those guys there that post their cool work, they are actually gunsmiths and have access to tools and know how needed for this, they actually sell these moded guns for some serious cash, and kits like that, they make 850 pcp conversions using fx, and hw tanks, even custom reservoirs for 850 . These are .25 cal conversion 850s doing 900-1000fps on a custom tank, that gets like 15-20 shots or so.
That dude KWP I hear is a real wiz, he is asking 50,000 RU = $2,131 US, and he says he is backed up with orders for seven months ahead. That 850 I tell you on HPA can do miracles if done right. I am amazed with the gun, just today I shot quarter size groups with my .22 at 50 yrds. I didn't think it would do it on 9 oz paintball tank, I am so pleased.
Bullpups are popular because people praise Edgun Matador so much but most can't put out 1500$ for it , so I have no idea how he did it he doesn't explain at all....
sigh, supply and demand......you just ruined my day. I do wonder though what it
would cost approximately to make a PCP from the ground up. If it costs any where close
to $1500-2000 it seems more reasonable to make one exactly as you would like it. Of
course some work like the machining would have to be done by others. Is this just a dream
without actually being a gunsmith with all the machines/tools or can this be done?
How to make? Sure, no prob! You just продолжение темы отправившись на поиски более стильного внешнего вида, внёс некоторые изменения в форму ложи и по просьбе заказчика покрасил в чёрный цвет...
фотки на сошках повесил на 4-ой странице...чтобы не тратить своё время на пустые разговоры, которые только тратят моё время, ещё раз скажу, что - подобный буллпап стоит 50000 рублей, 100% предоплата, готовый не раньше, чем через 6-7 месяцев, т.к. я завален заказами...
Hey if I knew it was that easy I would just have got some toilet paper rolls, chewing
gum and a funnel and made it a long time ago. I hate to read through all that Russian.
Thanks Stepar for simplifying it for me. One thing though when you said которые только,
did you mean буллпап стоит?
guys, if are interested in these guns I can talk with KWP or Valent, I am in good chating terms with these dudes, both of these guys do amazing custom work, but I have no idea about customs and what the shipping fees would be to US. But honestly they want way, way, to much cash for it. At that price I would buy a Styer and be happy for life
I think here we are all better off just getting a Korean .25 or 9mm, .50 cal guns, and have them tuned by Mac1 guy or BigEd. Some of the cool things that are available in Russia like the Edgun, and T4 carbines we can't get them here, but there they have tough times getting AF Condors.
I think the idea of a .25 cal 850 on HPA is great and has been overlooked by airgun fabricators in US, my brother and I have pulled a bunch of info from that forum regarding the 850, send it all to B&A guy, new valve ideas, how and what to do, and everything, never have heard from Ron since, so I guess he won't make us valves for FX tanks This is simple solution valve that fits FX bottles, that;s the most common mod done there. And they get like 30-40 good shots on 200 bar fill, at about 850-900 fps in .22 and higher in .177.
Yeah, I guess the condor seems the way to go.
I've had my eyes on it for a while and was
thinking that would be my first PCP. Then I
came across these bullpups and they looked a
little nicer and different. I think the Airforce
line could do with a makeover. I like the function
over form look but, they could do with some added
curves or some tweaking.
I am thinking of either the Condor, Evanix AR6, or Sumatra in .25 cal, or even a 9mm one for my next PCP. Condor from what I hear is a better quality gun then these, but AR6 and other Korean guns are repeaters. Logun S16 is sweet, but way too much money, I am not sure if I will be able to shoot a single shot gun after liking 850 multi shot so much, and for hunting it is always better to have a back up shot. Career III, I hear is a nice gun in .25 cal. I seen quarter size groups done at 45 yards with it, easily I might add.
And then again I like springers too. I was looking at that Hatsan Falcon in .25 cal, but after a bit of research on this gun, decided not to go for it. Bad quality, worse then BAM, that is what I hear. So I bought a Diana 34 panther in .22, first gun was damaged by FedEx, then the replacement i received has stock blemishes, and the breech hole was not exactly centered and roughly machined, made me upset to see this in kind of qc in RWS gun. But I fired that springer anyway before sending it back just to get a feel for it, very accurate gun but felt under powered to me. So I ma looking at the 350 magnum, heck I may even get one of the refurbished ones. I like springers very much even thought PCP is the way to go, but that recoil feels nice for a change of pace to me. So I am still debating what to get with my airgun dollars
Converting 850's to HPA is nothing new. It was done a few months after the 850 hit the shelves and is still done by many in the US. They are nothing fancy and not as powerful as those "foreign" 850's but they do shoot 150-200fps faster than on CO2. Several guys on the 850 forum (American one) have posted velocities of 750-800fps with 14.Xgr in .22 and they did it all spending about $150 using the stock 850 valve. There are instructions on the 850 forum on how to do it or you can send it out and have it done and you can have an 18-20fpe very accurate HPA gun. I get 0.25-0.30" CTC groups at 22yds with just a pillow as a bench and not trying hard, and that's on CO2 88gr.
As far as Condor vs. AR6, the Condor wins hands down. They cost the same but you get much more with the Condor (LW barrel, etc.) and can be very easily modified for power, taken apart and put back together. The new Condor comes from the factory with a high-flow valve and is more powerful than the ones with the older version valve. Just a heavier spring and hammer can add almost 10fpe to its power. I recently got one and the only issue I see with it is that it's a little too much gun for backyard shooting. It requires a lot backstop and a suppressor or shroud if you have neighbors. Luckily mine came with one and it's just slightly more 'noisy' than opening a can of soda! That's at the lowest setting of course which is 46-51fpe depending what pellet I use and the report goes up the higher the setting, but mine was modified with standard simple mods (no valve work) so it's supposed to put out 70fpe maybe more with heavier pellets. I got some 28.4 & 32gr Eun Jins coming.. This is definitely a 100yds gun and very accurate. Guys on the Talon/Condor forum report groups of 1.25" CTS at 100yds!
Harry,
If I understand you correctly you are saying that your Condor only goes roughly from 46 to 70 FPE? Is it possible
to turn the power down even more than the 46 FPE like 25-30 easily? Like changing a part or two quickly
as I see yours on the lowest setting is still pretty high. I was under the impression that at the lowest
setting that Condors would be in that 25-30 FPE range. Did your guns previous owner just add a heavier hammer
and spring? Also approximately how many shots do you get with the setting on low and high. I was looking at
the Condor because 100 FPE is a possibility for the future if I decide to take it up that much. For right now I
hoped it could used on a setting low enough not to rip through too much for backyard fun. Maybe I'm asking
for too much or maybe it would be easier to just switch the tank to a CO2 for backyard plinking? I see that in .22
with CO2 they are in the 23 FPE range which is more neighborhood friendly. Now that I think of it would getting the CO2
equipped tank and later getting the air tank and mods be most cost effective?
Jay, Unfortunately Condors do not shoot 23fpe with CO2. If they did I would be ordering a CO2 tank as we speak. They actually only average about 14-15fpe. See an extensive Condor review with CO2 here from Airgun Reporter that's sponsored by Pyramyd Air. http://www.pyramydair.com/video/?video=condor-co2-agr-episode-6.flv
My Condor has been powered tuned by Airhog (they sell Condors to the military) and you can only get the Airhog shroud if you buy the Condor from them. Among things they do is they replace some of the internals like spring, hammer and weight/spacer. If you have the "new" AirForce hi-flow valve simple mods like this increases the power by a lot, and it harder to bring it down to 25-30fpe like you say. A stock Condor I think can be reduced down to 30-35fpe and at max. power shoot at 60fpe. Because mine has the hi-flow valve and with the heavier hammer, spring, etc., it will not go down below 46fpe (w/21gr Kodiaks). It shoots 28.4gr Eun Jins at 900fps which is 51fpe at the lowest possible setting. This is just my gun. A stock Condor should be able to go down to the 30's.
Yes, there are a few Condors out there that get 90+fpe but they are .25cal and use the heaviest 42gr .25cal pellets to keep them from going supersonic. Once they pellets are supersonic the accuracy goes down a lot, especially with .22 because they are so much "lighter". Accuracy literally goes out the window with .22's. Kodiaks are only accurate up to 1,000-1,050fps. That's only about 50fpe. They shoot the best around 900-990fps (In a Condor anyway). So why would you want 100fpe and with what pellet and velocity would you achieve that? That's not what most Condor owners do when they set out to modify their Condors for more power. Most everyone's goal is to shoot for around 80fpe at the most so they can have an accurate gun and keep the heaviest pellets sub-sonic. If you visit the Talon/Condor forum you will see many people trying to bring down the power of their Condors after they have modified them.
In .22cal 70fpe is the most you can go up to, if you want to maintain acceptable accuracy and that's using the 28.4 and 32gr Eun Jin Korean pellets. .22 Kodiaks will go supersonic if you try and get 60fpe out of them, and accuracy is comprimised. You have to understand how the pellets shoot and what their maximum effective velocity is before they begin losing accuracy.
BTW, in my gun the previous owner said that Kodiaks start going supersonic after setting 4 (power settings are 2 to 12). I only got the gun a few days ago, and although it's less than a year old, I 'm the 3d owner. I have not tested it at anything but the lowest setting 2. Kodiaks fly at 970-990 at the lowest setting (~46fpe). I only run the first 12 shots through the chrony. Next weekend I 'll do some extensive shooting with it and see how many powershots I get and at different fill (PSI) levels. It's supposed to get about 25-30shots at the lowest level, and 15 shots at the highest but I 'm not even going to test the highest setting because the gun will become increasingly noisy (which I don't want) even with the shroud, unless I take it to the shooting range which I plan on doing sometime later this month.
You need to visit Talon/Condor forums and learn about these guns. With every mod you do, the gun changes, so many people's Condors out there are VERY different. You just have to read and read and absorb as much as you can, and then things start making sense Bottom line is you just have to put your own Condor through the Chrony and see what pressure fill (usually 2500-2700psi) gives the most consistent "power shots".
Just curious: Why do you want 100fpe? What do you plan on hunting? People take out Coyotes at 70yds with their almost stock .22 Condors and other small game at 100-150. The best thing about the Condor that I see, is that you can easily convert them to .25cal. That's my goal later this year or next. That and their superb accuracy makes them one hek of a gun.
Harry
I just put my Condor through the Chrony for 2 shots (21.1gr Kodiaks) with the lowest setting (2). I had shot it 28 times since I filled the bottle and was waiting for that groundhog I saw in the afteroon to make another appearance before I refilled it. I knew it was still shooting strong because it was going through 1.75" of pine when I was zeroing the scope earlier today at 30yds.
So here are shots 29 & 30: 898.7fps & 889.8fps (~38fpe).
That's about what I expected because my "power shots" are the first 25 and not 30. I 'd like to see it go down to about 42fpe (starts at 46fpe w/Kodiaks) after 25 shots if possible. It looks like I may be down to around 40fpe, maybe 41 after 25shots. I 'm not far from my goal I don't think..
So to answer your question, it looks like I 'm getting about 23-25 "power shots" (40-46fpe) at the lowest setting but it's all subjective and depends what you call power shots. Condors/Talons do not work like any other PCP. They always lose power as you continue shooting. The way I see it I can get 40+ "good" shots out of it and still have plenty of power to take out a 10+lb ground dwelling critter at 50yds. I just have to practice with it to see what the hold over/under is after 20, 30 & 40 shots. It's all about practice, practice, practice and shooting thousands of pellets to really know your gun. I also have to play around adjusting the top hat until I can get around a 3fps drop with every shot. That's usually considered pretty good with a Talon/Condor. It looks like I 'm losing about 4.5fps after every shot now and from the initial test I did the first day I got it when I shot 12 Kodiaks through the Chrony.
BTW, I was getting 1 shot holes repeatedly at 30yds today. I shot about 25 pellets at the same target so I 'm not sure what CTC 5-shot groups I managed to get. I was just trying to zero in the scope it came with and it's ability to hold zero, but once I had it zeroed in after about 8 shots, the rest seemed to stay within 1/3". The majority actually went into the same hole. There just a 1/2" hole in the center when I stopped because the wife said we had to go out. And I haven't even got started yet I 'm only on the 2nd fill.
Really good info there, thanks Harry. The 100 FPE I was thinking was supposed to be 90 like you say.
What I didn't realize is that only 70 FPE was needed to take a coyote out so far.
The .22 and not .25 is what I'm aiming for to keep the pellet easier to get & cheaper. If it's possible
to reach 70 FPE with a few mods using the heavier pellets I'm happy with that.
I think I'm going with the CO2 adapter and tank with this purchase also. I like what you said about the CO2
better too. At that power there is no worry about going through a 2X4 and through the fence behind it in my
yard(33 yds). I was thinking of getting the airpump as I don't plan on using it for as much hunting as
plinking. There is a paintball store about 1 minute walking distance from my house also, so getting air or
CO2 is no problem at all.
This gun in this arrangement seems to fit the bill as the best all around gun with 15 FPE for backyard fun
and 70 FPE for game. You made my decision on which PCP will be my first much easier. Now I'm going to
absorb as much as I can on the Airforce forums like you say to learn this beast before I get it.
I have heard of POI shifting on the Airforce guns. Have you noticed that or is it too soon to comment? I read the
shroud keeps the barrel tighter in place also. You also said even with the shroud it is loud on the higher settings.
I watched a video of a Condor with a custom shroud and all you can hear was the hammer. Of course I don't know
what power level it was on but it was about half as loud as my 350 and I have quieted that sucker down a lot since new.
I am not sure about the POI shifting. Do you mean after some use? The bore probably needs to be cleaned. I couldn't tell you but it seems very accurate so far.
The shrouds definitely make the barrel sturdier and everyone says accuracy improves after they install one.
I wonder if POI **** has anything to do with the stock bushings. I do not have the regular AF factory LW barrel in mine. My Condor has the heavier contour Lothar Walther barrel (as opposed to the thinner LW barrels that AF puts in their guns). It comes with heavy duty bushings that don't fit on the regular AF .22 barrels. So again, my gun is not stock. I looked for 2-3 mos for this gun.. I got it off a guy who is building 2 big bore Talons (9mm and .45!). He was going to do it on Condors but decided the Talon was a better platform for what he wants, more compact, lighter, etc. Of course he 's using Condor bottles/valves for his project Most parts are interchangeable between Talon and Condor.
I have a 350 too, I think.. haven't seen it in a long time What have you done to quiet the report?
The POI shift I was referring to was on bumping the barrel. I
went to AIRHOG and didn't see any other Condor than the stock one.
Do they offer the modded guns as a call in only service?
Quieting down the 350 was just lubing, deburring, and time I guess.
When I first got it I was thinking the neighbors would be getting
nervous but, now I doubt it's even noticed outside the yard any more.
It's more solid thunk kind of sound and not high pitched meatal sound.
I believe I will replace the spring soon as it has close to 10,000
shots on it.
