Hey John! Have you had a chance to shoot and chrony that new B28 yet?? Interested in the results of this gun.

I got my new B28 today. For those that don,t know this is the new Chinese copy of the RWS 350 mag. Its been out for awhile in .177cal but just in the last two weeks has been released in 22cal. I figured I,d buy one just to see how good a job they did. They already have the B30 which is a copy of the RWS 48 which they did a pretty close copy of except for the trigger.No where near the T05! I also have owned the B40 which was the Chinese copy of the Air Arms TX-200. They did alot better on this one right down to the what I consider the best trigger in the business. Out of the box they are somewhat rough compared to the rifle they copy but , with a good tune they can have you believe your shooting the real thing.
I was a little disappointed right away when I opened the box because Best Airguns only single boxes their rifles for shipping and my stock took a good hit some where along its journey from Texas to PA. Its a shame too because it actually would have been a nice light colored stock. I,ll email them later and see if I can get a replacement stock.
Well once I fired a few shots through it I was ready to tear in to it but my wife said we had to do a chrony report on it first. I wanted to get right into it but I knew she was right. I used Gamo Hunter 15.8gr pellets because mainly they're cheap and heavy enough to help work out the excess oil in the chamber. The chrony showed a average 835fps but the ten shot string was all over the place. About six of the shots were in the 830.s,one was 750 and another went 1895fps. Major Deisel! The trigger pull test showed a average of 4lb 4.5ozs.
Now it was time to open it up. I,ve worked on alot of 350's and honestly if you did,nt know better you,d swear thats what this gun was when you opened it up.I measured eveything inside and the main spring is the same dimensions as are the piston,piston seal and breech seal.The rear guide is the same size but a much cheaper version of plastic. I had a old Diana rear guide laying around so I used that.The trigger is a rough copy of the T-05. The peices are the exact same shape and configuration,they just need more finishing before you polish the metal. I did,nt do any of my special work on the trigger group yet ,just a simple polish and lube.
The piston,spring sheild and cocking slot need alot of attention to smooth the rough edges and I did alot of honing on the chamber. I used a Diana piston seal because I,m currently out of the Maccari Large Apex seals. I also slapped a set of Old school buttons on the piston while it was on the table.

I put it back together and it did,nt deisel anymore which was nice. It was also easier to cock after properly adjusting the hinge screw and polishing the cocking slot. I mounted a scope on it to do some testing across the shop and started with CP,s. It does'nt like CP,s! Gamo Hunters were'nt bad but for now Beeman FTS seem to all be going in the same hole.If the wind stays below 20 mph tomorrow I,ll do some testing outside.
I wanted to do a quick chrony check on it after about fifty shots. I tried CP,s and the first one went 820 fps but the next couple went around 500fps. I tried a few Gamo Hunters and they were going 830-840 fps. I concluded that the CP,s skirt does not properly fit the barrel and is letting the pressure escape around it. Next I tried the FTS because they have a bigger skirt than the CP,s and are lighter than the Hunters. The FTS show a average of 866fps and are accurate so far.

So far what I think of it? Its a very rough copy of the 350mag.Does it have alot of potential? Yes! If I was going to buy a rifle and not have it tuned which one would I choose? The 350 mag. The B28 is going to take a good tune for it to shine and the 350 shines right out of the box but,most are bone dry of lubes from the factory and can really benefit from a tune. The B28 sells for about $180.00 less than the 350 mag. Thats about what I,d charge to tune it with a Maccari spring and the works. For now I,m impressed with the power but I still need to test the accuracy before I get excited. I,ll let you know, John

.....the average used price of a barely shot RWS seems to be about $275. Is the additional $100 that big a break considering all the parts you had to swap plus the metal work? And the RWS stocks sure look a might more purty than the standard Chinese woods. Heck, I STILL think about Chopper Tim's 350. In that respect, East definitely doesn't meet West.

And theres no comparison in quality right out of the box. The one thing I will give them credit for though is that theres no barrel droop on the B28. As a tuner I,m just trying to stay on top of whats going on in the hobby. For the price its not a bad starter magnum.I love working on Diana's but I have to stay on top of the rest also.

Heres this mornings crony report.
Beeman FTS 14.8gr pellets.

Low = 860.4
High = 886.9
Average = 874.6
ES = 26.54
Sd = 07.54

Not too shabby !

Know you have to keep current with what's coming into your shop. Just getting tired of seeing the Chinese knock-off every decent airgun made. It's getting so there are, literally, copies of the copies. Makes me appreciate the originals more and more.

yes RF, I understand what you are saying, BUT everything gets copied and to the best

traditionalist?? or experimentioalist??

Kodak is out of busness, Sony overtook them, HOW?? by copy's first and by quality later. did you know North Star is making some parts for Diana's?? North Star is CHINESE

welcome to the NEW World, you cannot deny the economy of forces. it is time for the new world (China) to overcome the old world (Germany and Austria, Italy included) and WHY? because we let them overcome US

FPS rules and in the USA, only FPS counts for ALL customers, THANK you Mr. Beeman

would you buy an RWS 350 for $390.00 and tune it for $300.00 0r a B28 for $170.00 and tune it for $100, and you still get a 800 FPS air gun, do the math

will I sell my RWS 34, 40 or my Panther. NO way but vill I buy the Proven air guns even if made in China (YES) because my wallet and my pellets do not know the difference

850 FPS in . 22 cal with 15 gr. is vanilla and with a 35 yards 3/4 CTC then it is GRAVY

step UP to the Plate RWS because the East is comming

warren







and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

I just came from a gun show where there were some one-offs and custom best guns that were on the tables for $5000 and up. Do they hunt just as well as a Savage 100? Yep. So, why pay more? Quality, for one. I don't need to fund the Chinese military/industrial complex and teach them how to gradually improve their copy technology. I've got two kids who just might have to face what else North Star Industries makes some day and it won't be in an FT competition. But that's the political side. Yes, I would rather pay $300 for a Diana 350 and then another $150 for a tune rather than $175 for a B28 and the same for the tune. The difference (less than $150) boils down to, what? Twenty-five cents a day over the several years I might own that gun and enjoy it. There is such a thing as pride of ownership. You can buy something cheaper and make it better. You can also buy the best and make it better. It's subjective, for sure. Otherwise we would all be driving econo-boxes.

And I'm familiar with global economics. Yes, the Chinese are getting better at what they make depending upon product line. They aren't always as critical (witness lead in baby toys, melamine in powdered milk products, etc) about QC in all of their manufacturing. Right now cheap airguns are a good source of imported dollars for them so they are perking up their ears and cranking out better and better guns. As I've said before, I'm no brand loyalist but there are some mighty fine little companies (smaller than state-supported and labor/materials funded North Star) that are hurting from the Chinese copying. Take Cometa, for instance, a well-established family run Spanish company that makes some very fine intermediate priced airguns. They certainly will be impacted by the global recession and any sales siphoned off by cheap knock-offs are going to hurt doubly. And when the smaller companies are gone, what then? Limited product pool equals higher prices. Supply and demand.

Not saying you shouldn't buy a Chinese or Turkish copy. Be my guest. It's a free market. Just don't think it's the natural progression of things or survival of he fittest. There are certain niches that the Chinese will never fill.

I'm done now. (Pant...Pant...pan.gto;=0 ) Dang, my fingers hurt!

Because I felt so guilty for spending so much time with that Chinese rifle last night. Yeah, If they shoot great I love them, If they don,t I try to fix them.

Hi John,
After reading your review about the Communist made B-28 I might just have to get me one of dem-dare-critters in.22.The second .177 Quest I have been building for froggin and turtle hunting out of a boat can go and be replaced by the more powerful B-28.Hope it don't fall in the lake!!
I won't get into the made in USA-Germany,China stuff because I like a variety of brands in my air guns.
Its kinda funny though being a retired UAW worker I got into an argument last year about buying and driving foreign cars right here on Dianawerks.I got a pretty good AX-Chewing for speaking my peace about buying American made cars,and supporting the American worker.
Some here say it's OK to buy a Toyota,Nissan,or Honda just to name a few but you better not buy a Chinese air gun!! Go Figure?? He he he!

But I guess I'm no better now!! I have a Smart Car for Two coming in a couple of weeks.My plan is to drive it until Fo.Mo.Co brings there little Ford KA over from Europe.Then I'll sell the Smart and buy the Ford.Check out e-bay there's money to be made here!Most are buying and selling for a really nice profit because of the long wait to get one.Waiting a year or better in most cases.

BBGun Bob
SE Mich.

I may contact you when I get one for a few tuning tips.If thats OK with you?

Springers Are Neat! One shot One Bullseye!

Hi John,
After reading your review about the Communist made B-28 I might just have to get me one of dem-dare-critters in.22.The second .177 Quest I have been building for froggin and turtle hunting out of a boat can go and be replaced by the more powerful B-28.Hope it don't fall in the lake!!
I won't get into the made in USA-Germany,China stuff because I like a variety of brands in my air guns.
Its kinda funny though being a retired UAW worker I got into an argument last year about buying and driving foreign cars right here on Dianawerks.I got a pretty good AX-Chewing for speaking my peace about buying American made cars,and supporting the American worker.
Some here say it's OK to buy a Toyota,Nissan,or Honda just to name a few but you better not buy a Chinese air gun!! Go Figure?? He he he!

But I guess I'm no better now!! I have a Smart Car for Two coming in a couple of weeks.My plan is to drive it until Fo.Mo.Co brings there little Ford KA over from Europe.Then I'll sell the Smart and buy the Ford.Check out e-bay there's money to be made here!Most are buying and selling for a really nice profit because of the long wait to get one.Waiting a year or better in most cases.

BBGun Bob
SE Mich.

I may contact you when I get one(B-28) for a few tuning tips.If thats OK with you?

Springers Are Neat! One shot One Bullseye!

See what those Chicom springers do to you, Bob?

You're posting double.
You're posting double.

But you're into doubles now, aren't you? Me, I'll take a double, straight up.

Hey John! I also went out and shot my 460 this weekend too! I've been busy sighting in my Marlin 336 30-30 and Remington 700 300 short mag for hunting season, so I haven't been able to shoot my air rifles like I want to! Gun day opened up this past Friday and I've yet to harvest a whitetail. Hopefully, next week will yield better results. I am still amazed by the tune you did on my 460! A couple of my hunting buddies were really impressed by my 460. They could get better groups with my 460 than they could with their high-powered centerfire rifles!! I don't really care if an air rifle if made in USA, Germany, or China, I know that after a John in PA tune, it will shoot like nobody's business! If I hear positive feedback on the post-tune on your B28, I must just buy one and get you to tune and chop it also! Thanks again John in PA!!

These captions were copied from: http://www.pyramydair.com/shot-show-2007.shtml

I'm gonna get sick.There is a picture of Ye standing in front of his 'COPY' of a RWS 350 Mag.This is the caption below the pic: "John Ye from Xisico proudly displays his company's latest creation, the XS B28."
-Insert vomit here-
His company's latest creation..LOL..
Shouldn't it say, His company's latest forgery.And the JA writing the article doesn't know better, he writes: "Over at the Xisico booth, we encountered a spring rifle that is entirely new. It has magnum power and velocities over 1,100 f.p.s. in .177, but it's relatively lightweight and even easy to cock! Despite the light weight, though, this is a very large air rifle - entirely suited to adult shooters. I can't wait to test one!"

I did not realize the 350 was entirely new.

The Xisico Kid scores another ripoff. What Diana ought to do is cobble together a really horrendous piece of junk and then leak it to him.



Won't be long until they're popping up like mosquitoes on a July morning. Does Diana get ANY royalties for this? The 34 has been out for a long enough time that the international patent may have expired (witness the plethora of Colt .45 semi-auto clones), but the 350 is a fairly new design, well within the 17 (?) year period.

Anywho, y'all can do what you like. Me, I'm staying with originals and mostly older AG's, at that.

Here's the SKS/AK47, ooops!, I mean Xisico AIR gun factory:

http://olympia.fortunecity.com/kickbox/377/factory971.html

And here's where Diana's come from:

http://www.diana-airguns.de/index.php?id=26&L=1&width=1024&height=768

Notice the similarities (1100 Chinese workers and 90, count 'em, 90 German employees) and their rich common histories.

A little Ying and Yang (rhymes with Twang).

Olde




Newe



( I must admit, that particular model doesn't appear to need much tuning. )

RD F:

you can deny the copy of the B28, it is a RWS350 in shape and form, complete copy of the original 350 to the "T"

does it shoot like the 350?? is it accuratte as the 350??

I will let you know, bacause I just got it today, have to scope it and find the pellet for it since it is not a true 350, just a copy

give me time and we will see if it is accurate to 50 yards as the 350, if not it fails

BUT give it a chance to prove itself, it does not hace the barrel droop which is a PLUS and the air chamber is 14 inches which means POWER

Warren

I would never deny anyone their right to buy whatever air gun they wish. Personally, I would rather have an original over a copy, particularly if the finish and workmanship is higher. If the increase in cost is a problem then I am inclined to have fewer, more expensive air guns than many cheaper ones. Or sell one or two to try another. (You can only shoot one at a time, anyway.) When companies like Xisico come up with their own designs (and, surely, they have made enough money to afford a little R&D), I will consider purchasing one of their original products. Sadly, the only "original" Chinese air guns I have seen are the lowly B-1, B-2, B-3 series from Shanghai.

Compasseco has B28 on sale for $156.00 right now. Flying Dragoon has them for $180.00 shipped. So its not German, but then how German are the German guns now. Spain, China, Mexico all making guns & parts for them. Is the German stamp still worth an extra $200 these days?

I had an extra mount and placed a Barska 3-12 X 40 AO on that 350 Imposter, I added Mac1 cup srews to the side and washers to the trigger screws, everything tight and ready to GO

1st shoot without scope adjustements were left BUT centered, meaning; NO barrel droop. clicked to my right again and again and after 5 shoots; "bulls eye"

the TEST was 5 cans of soda filled with water one after another at 25 yards. SLICED all 5, then 6 cans' again went thru 5 and # 6 stoped the pellet. my Model 34 will stop with the 4th can and my 48/460 with 5

this is a copy of a $400 air gun and may I say a very good copy but for $200 from Mike Melick, (Tuned) Mike left the original spring but added a Top hat and rear guide, lubed and polished everything inside

pellets used; Beeman FTS, CP's and RWS anywhere from 14.3 to 16 grains, max FPS are 860 FPS with CP's, 820 with Beeman and 800 with RWS. It really likes Beeman FTS pellets

cocking took 40-45 pounds, it is not for the faint of hearts, not hold sensitive TO ME, still it is a BRUTE in force in 19.5" barrel and 14" air chamber. It is what it is a "copy of the RWS 350" but a real good one including the TO5 trigger (adjustable) and the wood stock is worth $120.00 by itself. Heck the Panther synthetic stock is worth $90 from UMAREX and it is a Plastic stock

same breech seal as the 350, same wood checkering and rubber pad at the end, same lenght as the 350 and IF you do not believe me then; $200 + shipping to you. I can get another one from Mike. Money back guaranteed

have we under estimated the Chinese production (in this area) or has Diana made done it

put the B28 along the RWS 350 and LOOK at them, they are the same but with one difference, ONE of them is improved

warren

PS: would I sell my 34's,48 or my 460, hell NO but I will keep this BASTARD also





and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

The RWS 350 is the darker stock.

Well said Red feather

Rayburn11

What about the economy? Redfeather asks is "#100.00 more than a USED 350 mag. really worth it?" I would say hell yes! I could see how some guy in America might want to get a nice powerful hunter and save that $100.00 for something more important than a German Pellet gun. Not everyone is a "pellet gun Enthusiast". There actually maybe a guy that is not overly concerned about the difference of the wood stock, the great quality of the RWS trigger etc. Who knows this guy might even shoot the hell out of some guy with a $1000.00 super tuned super duper German classic. A hundred dollars is a LOT of money to some folks. Think about some Dad scraping to buy a nice gun for his son at Christmas but has 5 other kids to think about. The son could take this gun, learn to hunt (which has nothing to do with the gun) learn to shoot, learn safely, and learn to shoot accurately etc. and later he could buy his own spring for a complete tuning down the road.

Warren always ends his post with the caption "30% the gun 70% the shooter". I have to agree with him. Nowit is Time to get real, Bam has made a great gun for a lot less money. BRAVO TO BAM!

Good shooting!
Dave@vabch

the MOST popular pellets are not made in the USA

Beeman pellets are made in Spain, Germany and the USA

Air Arms are made in the UK

Daisy's are mostly made in China

Eun Jin are made in Korea

Gamo mostly made in Spain and other countries including China

JSB's are from the Czech Republic

Mendoza's are made in Mexico

RWS are from Germany

should I continue?

I am surprised there are NO pellets from India but with time they will overtake the OLD world

and WHY? should the next generation of break barrels not come from overseas, if they perform as the old ones and at a cheaper price, regardless of country of origin

think about this

Hatsan in Turkey and North Star in China have already started coping the best of the best in the air rifles for pennies to the dollar

warren



and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

Many of the pellets referred to are made outside of the USA because they are imported brands like JSB, a Czech company and Mendoza, Mexico's leading air gun manufacturer. These companies aren't copying anything. And Crosman CP's are probably among the most popular brands in the USA. Aside from Crosman's, pellet guns are not a big industry in the USA, so it's natural to see the guns and ammo imported from areas of the world where they are. That's what Doc Beeman was all about - importing quality, adult-level air guns and accessories. Manufacture outside of the USA is not the natural progression of things. It's just that's how this particular product industry is structured.

I don't discount the Chinese air gun industry. Just would like to see them become more innovative. They seem to be selling enough guns to justify a little creativity.

If you look hard enough on the 'net, you will see that there are some interesting guns over in India, seeing as you mentioned that country. Hopefully, some of these may become available in the USA.

RF:

you have returned to to the thread which in 27 Nov you said was your last post on this issue

and

you have acknowledged that other countries have overcome the USA in Pellets and Air guns

but lets go back to the German air guns; RWS 92 is really a COMETA made in Spain(only made in .177 cal.) and they made the RWS 93 in .22 cal (another Spanish air gun) by again Cometa

and again and again, RWS current production. some parts are made in China, yes China and assembled (Guess) in Romania

German?? not 100%

Soo, what is wrong with a copy made in MAR's or Jupiter that shoots the same as the World we know and live in (a bad analogy)

if it shoots right and straight what is the problem? country of origin makes NO difference. it is the air gun we love to shoot

warren

PS: no flame intended I respect your knowledge about air guns and you are one upstand GUY in this forum





and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

Hi!

I'm from Portugal. Congratulations, you've a very good forum! Learn a lot about technical stuff from it.

I own two rifles: An old diana 27 from the seventies, and the spannish norica West (your's Beeman GS950).

Please, note that RWS is not a air-gun manufacturer, but a distributer. They, indeed, make produts like ammunitions and other things, but not air-rifles.
Cometa is a small manufacturer company in Spain, and they also design their produts. This company make all their produts indors, none of them is manufacturer in China. RWS just ask them to stamp their brand on the rifles. Exactly like Beeman does.
Dianawerk company (Germany) is, also, the creator and manufacturer of all diana rifles. None of them (till now) is made in China, or other place.

All the best!
Rgds,
Alberto.

My arch nemesis Warren has made a great point which in all reluctance, I have to agree.
Good Point Warren!

Good Shooting!

Dave@vabch

And this, I promise, is it.

My main objection is not so much in copying something which someone else put a lot of time and money into designing, developing and marketing (one reason, in itself, that the copies cost so much less), as it has been pointed out this copying business has been going on in the AG community for some time. It is just, in this instance, the copy appears to be almost totally identical. Cheaper? Sure. Factor in state support and low labor overheads and it's bound to be cheaper. Broadens the number of guns available for the sport, thus introducing more shooters who may be economically on the fence? Without a doubt. Same with making a bit more sophisticated magnum affordable. Ethical? Well, there's the sticking point, at least, with myself. At that level, it's more like counterfeiting or pirating videos.

As to the USA is no longer competitive in the world of air guns, when was it ever? Aside from pneumatics like the Benjamin/Sheridan Blue Streak (still a superior old horse), we never amounted to much. Doesn't mean the other countries are superior. It has always been a world market - at least a Western world market, as the Asian countries produced some pretty cheap knockoffs of BSA's and pumpers before getting into the springer/CO2 guns. So, there's no new revelation in that regard.


Now, that said, I will not respond to this thread any longer. I'm limiting my posts to Diana or other "original" guns, but mostly Diana, considering this is the Dianawerke. And, of course, to include germane topics such as pellets, sights, barrel lengths, etc.

Till then, Ciao! And have a safe and happy holiday season! I've got to put up the Christmas tree (German) which was probably made in China along with 90% of the decorations.

your tree might be from the USA, your decorations are either from Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target or Sears

BUT

I GUARANTEE your extention cord is Chinese. LOL

HAPPY HOLYDAYS

warren

not trying to tempt you to extend this debate any further.. LOL!!
I'm with you on what you said in your last post, its mostly an ethical thing for me too.
If I'm not in any way comfortable/confident with an airgun, chances are that my shooting will also suffer.
Well done to those who can shoot well with less costly airguns, whatever their guns' origin or pedigree.
Each to his own opinion and thanks for all your views.
David

America is great. The choice is yours. American gun (not many made in America). Or English, Turkish, German, Slave or Russian. I just wonder if it is really "infringement rights", Or rather the Chinese have purchased the rights from the Brits and Germans to copy the guns? Surly these corporations have attorneys that could have stopped the coping. Or could the RWS, Air Arms etc. license holders actually be making money off of the Bam sales?

Dave@vabch

I noticed Webley Scott Stingray Carbine 25.cal. is for sale but made in Turkey. I wonder how the quality might have changed if any? Ps. I also saw a nice vulcan for sale (made IN England) 22.cal. for $400.00

Dave@vabch

So John, has that B28 chrony numbers gone up yet?? Did you ever get that trigger group smooth as butter? I'm just curious, because if it is a good shooter, I might just have to get one for myself to mess around with as a "not care if I ding it up in the woods" gun!