I got over the weekend? Sorry he looked pretty big and decided to use one of my Condors (.22), heheh. No Diana used here. He was actually big.. check the pics. I thought he might be near 30lbs but ended up being only 24lbs, and 33" long - still a good size one I think.
Single shot with a 28.4gr Eun Jin at 22-23yds to the top of the head between the ears where the brain is, as it had its head down eating the cat food. Power wheel was set all the way down producing "only" 51-52fpe. It has some very interesting brown colors on its back and I was told by many I should mount it or the skin for decoration. I have the skin in the freezer. Called 5 taxidermists in the area - they all wanted $265 to $300 to tan the skin. Too much $ for me right now with all the Holiday shopping. I could get another gun with that $ hehe. They wanted $650-700 for a life size mount(!) so I decided to skin it instead.
Actually 2 of them showed up but the other one heard me putting the window up and took off although I didn't make much noise at all. This one, the bigger one, almost followed his buddy, but then decided to continue feeding so I got lucky. It was the first critter I got that doesn't make the Condor look like a broomstick
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RWS Diana 350 .22
RWS Diana 36 .177
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
AF Condor .25
AF Condor .22
Crosman custom 2300XT .22
Various other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177
Thats outrageous. You can do it yourself for a couple bucks. Lots of info available on do-it-yourself tanning. Tanning chemicals are easily obtainable in kit form or you can do a brain tan using natural ingredients. The latter gives better results generally, but the former is a bit easier.
I know I 've been looking at some taxidermy sites right now and learning. It looks like I may have to scrape the skin a little better to remove all the fat, etc. and re-apply salt again..
A couple of the taxidermists said that includes shipping, etc. I said why? do you send the skin out to someone else? and they said yes! So they are the middle man and don't do any of the tanning or work themselves. Unbelievable.. no wonder they 're so expensive. They have to pay someone else to do it and then add their profit on top. One of them said he treats the skin with chemicals. Yeah well not $265 worth I 'm sure.. I think maybe they are having a tough time with the economy and everything, and they figure whoever calls to have work done must be rich, so they take you for a ride, but I must admit, they were all about the same price. I guess I 'll start learning how to tan.. if I can find the time.
RWS Diana 350 .22
RWS Diana 36 .177
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
AF Condor .25
AF Condor .22
Crosman custom 2300XT .22
Various other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177
The shroud makes the gun VERY quiet. It's basically a silen..r. You must buy the gun from Airhog in order to get their shroud (it might be for legal reasons), unless they have changed their policy and you can order it seperately now. These shrouds are amazingly effective, except if I use lighter pellets which go supersonic (>1,130fps), then it gets a little louder, like an RWS 850 CO2 gun at the most, which is still not bad. At under <1,000fps all you hear pretty much is the mechanical noise of the hammer hitting the valve. Between 1,000-1,100fps it sounds like a stock C2240 CO2 pistol, maybe less quiet, which is not saying much. In the beginning I was wondering if the gun is working properly and kept running to the chrony to check, hehe. So I use heavy pellets 28.4, 30gr & 32gr to keep the velocity & report down. 21gr Kodiaks is the lightest I use which start off at just over >1,000fps at the lowest PW setting. It's more accurate that way anyway and get more kinetic energy with the heavies.
RWS Diana 350 .22
RWS Diana 36 .177
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
AF Condor .25
AF Condor .22
Crosman custom 2300XT .22
Various other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177
Can you still recover the corpse from the garbage?
December 11 2008, 10:24 AM
If you still can, then brain tanning is really simple: just put the brain in a little water and liquefy, either by hand or by machine. As you go along, put more water till you have enough volume of the solution to fully immerse the skin.
Make sure you DO scrape all flesh, fat, tissue from the skin, and I mean ALL!!!!, spray some Hydrogen peroxide on the skin side. DO NOT GET ANY ON THE HAIR SIDE!!!! Let it sit for an hour, then wash abundantly and dunk in the brain "solution". Allow it to rest for 4 hours and then take out the skin, stretch and squeeze it, and then immerse again. You can allow it to overnight now. Next morning, again, stretch it and squeeze it. Repeat for a week. It does not take more than 15 minutes to do this.
In cold weather, you can leave the whole smelly stuff outside as long as it does not freeze, in warm weather it is recommended to put all the bucket in the fridge (get a lid and get your wife's/mamma's permission before!!), but since we are in winter, I guess it would be alright to leave outside.
Once a week of stretching and squeezing has passed, throw out the brain solution, wash the skin THOROUGHLY and dry the skin stretched on a board. You MIGHT want to get some alum and make a saturated solution. When the skin begins to dry (MAKE SURE IT DOES NOT FREEZE!), you can "paint" it with the alum solution, you will need very little, so do not make a lot. 1/4 pint will do for a raccoon.
If you cannot recover the brain, then make a lot more of alum solution and implement the same process.
When the skin has dried, get some neatsfoot oil (if you want to make it supple) put some oil on the skin side and stretch it over a straight edge. The skin-leather part will fluff out and will start looking like leather and not like parchment, continue with the stretching and the rasping till you get what you want.
If you do not want it supple, then get it wet again and stretch it over a mould of the shape you want it to be. Allow to dry and that's it!
A lot of work, but very few dollars.
Our iguanas are about the size of your raccoons, but much skinnier! LOL!!!!
Harry, you have really gotten me thinking. You know how much I like the carbines (just bought another C1) Have been doing research of the Talon SS. Man, this would be the perfect gun to carry into the woods. Light weight, powerful and Quiet. You can attach a nice bipod,flashlight,etc. I have seriously been thinking about night hunting. (hard to find time in the day). I have been reading many articles on it. This gun would make the perfect gun for that job. Pick a nice spot near a creek or cornfield, dig yourself in, set out a call and snipe away!
Looking at the price tag and accessories and it is obviously I should start saving now for spring.
Thanks alot Harry. I think I will change your name to Dark Side Harry!
I threw the head out it's gone. I didn't want to mess with it. I 'm not working from home anymore like I used to (which is why I did so much backyard hunting), and don't have a lot of time when I get home at 9pm every night (long commute sucks). The skin is in the freezer after I got (I think) most of the fat & meat off of it. Your is like the 4th or 5th version about what to do with a skin. It seems there are many different methods out there. The info is much appreciated!! I 'll get around to it probably in a week or two, when I 'm off for a few days.
Holdover: The SS does NOT have a shroud. It's just that the barrel is inside the frame which makes it a little more quiet. There are a couple of guys/machinists/tuners that make small very effective shrouds for the SS. My Condor is much less quiet than an SS. Go to www.airhog.com and contact them about shroud options. If you order the gun (Talon or Condor, etc.) from them, they can ship you a .25cal gun if you want! They just replace the barrel with another Lothar Walther .25. They can also install a heavier spring & hammer if you ask them. Their Condors cost about $800-850 with the shroud + hammer/spring upgrade. That's what my "Airhog Condor" has and it gets 10 more FPE than a regular Condor. Make sure your Condor has the new "hi-flow" valve tank.
Dave:
You a PCP? Com'on? you 're joking right? Just kidding buddy. I remember you saying you felt sorry shooting a 1.5lb squirrel last year. How are you going to shoot something 10X bigger? Just don't shoot a skunk like I did a couple of weeks ago!! at least not in your backyard, hehe.. the stink lingers around for several weeks unless it rains a lot like it's been doing lately so it's all gone now I 'll never do that again. I cannot believe I was holding a skunk in my hands and bagging it!! The stink is unbearable and it stays in your nostrils for 3-4 days! But you know me.. I 'll shoot anything - ONCE! hehehe
An SS is a great idea for night hunting. It's small and easy to handle and conceal. Just make sure you get a strong lamp or flashlight. If you have a corn field near you or any other crops you should be able to spot a few night critters, but the crops don't grow until the Spring/Summer at which time there is no hunting season. I hunt them in the Fall & Winter when it's legal and always have my hunting license in my wallet. I would hate to shoot a female racoon in the Spring that might have newborns in the nest.
If you want to get one now while possum/raccon/fox, etc. are in season, you can do it behind your townhouse complex. Just put some bait down (dry/wet cat food, but dry last a lot longer in case cats come & eat it), and they 'll come. Make sure you have enough "fire power" though. I would not shoot them from a distance with anything less than a 20fpe gun. They come late though, usually after 1am, so you can put an infra-red heat sensor out there (driveway wireless alert-system - $16.99 only from Harbor Freight!) that sends a signal to your receiver inside your home when any critter approaches the bait area. Then you wake up and pick them out from your window if you have enough lighting. Then in the morning you sneak out there and bring the sensor inside so the neighbors don't know what you 're up to I leave the outside rear spot light on and it lights up my entire backyard up to 25-30yds out. I had 3 racoons show up at once a couple of weeks ago btw. Even possoms get used to the light after a couple of days. They 're apprehensive at first and very cautious and only take a bite and leave, but after a few days they settle down and start eating.. Racoons don't care as much about the light but they 're very skiddish and jumpy if they hear a noise, like me putting the window up. They have much better hearing than possum or skunk. The last 2 did not hear me at all. The coons picked up the slightest noise right away from 23yds out, so out of 4 sightings/visits so far I 've only been able to take 1 shot, which is ok.. I don't plan on wiping them out.. but I 'm sure they won't be trying to knock over and open my garbage cans anymore after the other night
RWS Diana 350 .22
RWS Diana 36 .177
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
AF Condor .25
AF Condor .22
Crosman custom 2300XT .22
Various other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177
Thanks for the heads upon that .So long as the shroud works im kool with that. Im waiting for the ol incometax return. because I cannot justify buying it.(but I need it) lol.
I could get a decent 308 for that price , but what fun is that ? cant pick off the rats in the city with that . Wellllllllllll, you could but its kinda frowned on .SO I like to opt for a specifly deigned rat asasination weapon
Harry, I never had a problem with hunting. Just wish I had the time for a great Deer hunt.What makes a great hunt around this area are the Nutria. Completely destroying the wetlands that are so beautiful around this area. The frigging nutria are everywhere. This area also has a over population of Raccoons and Fox. Rabies is very common ins this area. Private land is in many cases allowable to hunt with certain restrictions. They use to pay a bounty on Nutria. For sure no one cares if you take all you want.Just walk along any creek bet or natural waterway and you will see these pest.This summer I am planning on buying a canoe and do some real shooting and enjoy the scenario to boot. I will send you all the Nutria pelts and meat.You will probably enjoy them as some folks say they taste like tree rats, or just maybe rats.
Be prepared to spend some substantial time tuning and tweaking it; and, you will need a good Chrono to get it to where you really want it.
My Talon SS is perfectly capable of delivering 50 shots from a fresh tank at 28 ft-lbs with whisper-quiet efficiency, sending JSB Exacts Jumbos (16 grains) @ 890 fps.
It's my son's favourite hunting gun.
If you are prepared to dedicate some time to it, then go get yourself one.
Dave, Nutria are a big animal aren't they? Get a Condor!
Holdover:
PCP's and chrony's go hand in hand if you are not a perfectionist or crazy enthusiast like us
You actually don't have to do a lot right out of the box though. Only after you find out that there is a lot you can with your gun, hehehe. BTW, they sell shrouds ($130) for Talons. They only stick out 1" out the front and look pretty good.. most of the shroud is inside the frame over the barrel and make it almost whisper quiet, unless you have a very heavy hammer, then it will just be more mechanical noise.
What you have to do is find the right pressure fill where the gun shoots consistently and you get a lot of shots. I don't claim to know a hek of a lot about Talons but they are not much different than Condors.. From what I read on the talonairgun.com forum, most guys charge their Talons up to 2800-3,000psi. Once you have found the pressure the gun likes and the Power Wheel (PW) setting, you just leave it there and practice.
I think what Hector is also talking about is tuning it further by adjusting the tophat on the valve. That you 'll have to spend a lot of time on, and probably use close to your entire scuba tank to get everything right. Not everyone does this but it's not hard to do, just time consuming. The gun is pretty good right out of the box so don't let Hector scare you
For Hector or his son to get almost 28fpe out of an SS they must have adjusted the tophat like crazy(!) and played with the PW and chrony a lot, AND have probably installed a heavier hammer (and maybe spring). An SS does not get 28fpe out of the box. It's about 25fpe with heavier pellets like the Kodiak and about 23fpe with JSB jumbos or Predators. So I suspect their Talon has a heavier striker to get ~28fpe with the "lighter" 15.8gr JSB's. The 18" barrel Talon (non-SS and very loud) gets 900fps with JSB's and 30+fpe with Kodiaks.
Anyway sometimes it's good to buy used too. Both my .22 and .25 Condors were used when I bought them from their 1st owner, and were tuned pretty well. I looked for used tuned guns so I didn't have to spend many hours & money$ getting them just right.. but that's just me. I like all my guns to be tuned and be the best the can be.
My 3d Condor, another .25 I have on the way (3 fricking Condors!! there's something wrong with me you think?), is tuned to the max 100% by the best tuner in the US.. and I will be its 2nd owner. There are no more mods left to be made to this gun. It's cheaper to buy a used tuned gun. To fully tune a Condor or Talon yourself you need to be a machinist and know a lot of things. For example this tuner made custom vented bushings for this .25 Condor I 'm getting, vented frame, polished and worked the valve, the breach slide, trigger work, etc. It's not just bolt-on parts that this gun has which most people can do.. They were custom fabricated and a lot of polishing and other work went into it to also get the best match between the barrel-end, breach, and tophat where everything matches up and works best. It also has an o-ring mod in the valve to make it more quiet when the hammer hits it.
I wouldn't say PCP's are like Springers that need a lot of work or tuning, but they are massed produced guns, and can always use some improvements.
Most people don't mess around with their AF guns much though because it can get costly when you start buying stuff for it. Besides, both Talon & Condor are great & accurate out of the box. Did you watch Paul Cappelo's latest SS & Condor video/review (link on P/A)?
Adjusting the tophat can also provide some more power, but can also mess up your consistency, which is why you have to spend a lot of time on the chrony to figure out the PW and tophat settings that work well together, ie: more consistent shots. Good consistency is when you get 2-4fps variation between shots. The most I get is 5fps but many times if I fill to the same exact pressure, it's only 2-3fps and sometimes the velocity# on the chrony is the same or within tenth's of an fps for 2 consecutive shots. I easily get 50 consistent shots out of my Condor on the lowest setting starting at 1,000fps with Kodiaks. So consistency and shot count is usually what people are looking for or trying to accomplish by tinkering with their Talon/Condor.
Don't worry about all that now. Just get the gun - it 'll shoot great out of the box. You may also look for a used one. Sometimes I see them for $400 with a little bit of extras like scuba adapter or bipod, tri-rail, etc. BTW, you 'll need the tri-rail plus high-mount rings or you 'll be uncomfortable looking through the scope. You want the scope as high as possible because there is no "raised-cheek" piece on the gun's butt which is the tank itself. Or you get an adjustable butt piece like I have.. A high mount or tall rings are a must though in conjuction with a tri-rail or a good adj. shoulder piece.
RWS Diana 350 .22
RWS Diana 36 .177
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
AF Condor .25
AF Condor .22
Crosman custom 2300XT .22
Various other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177
I got into springers last year , I learned how to tear mine all apart , and do basic general work to it . Ive had fun with it . and as far as springers go, I cant justify spending the same on a springer as I would on a PCP. So the next step is a PCP if I go into the 500 800 range.
For me, (target and rats)precision and quietness superceed power. I know the Condor has room to spare for power when just ratting, I most likely would keep it on a low setting (range dependent)
The thing that turns me on most is the accuracy and quietness.and of course adaptability
I would definately consider buying a used one , So if your thinking about dumping one later on , let me know.You made a lot of sense when you said to buy one already tuned too. Shammmart!
Dont get me wrong I love my 350, I got her shooting like my 34 verrrrry nice.I dont know if I ever would part with her now.
Im going to try the peepsights this spring on her too.
I dont mean to be ignorant , but what is the tophat ? and whatdoes it do where is it located?
Dave: Don't be scared of what I wrote.. These guns are fricking AWESOME out of the box and the SS is indeed pretty quiet like a medium-powered Springer, which is saying a lot as PCP's traditionally are VERY loud. All I 'm saying is make sure you get high rings - and they are cheap. Remember it's not a Springer so you don't need a 1-piece mount that built like a tank. Also have you heard of "used"? There are some great deals out there lately because these are tough times or people have trouble paying their bills and selling their guns. The last 1/2 dozen Talons & Condors I 've seen for sale did not sell for what the seller was asking. The prices were negotiated down a good amount. It's not much different than the realestate market. The guy I 'm buying the new fully-tuned .25 from sent me of the bill from the tuner. He just had the "works" done on it this past April. It was $520 for the work plus he paid $800 for the gun from Airhog (came with a shroud). Do you think I paid $1,300 for it? I 'm getting the entire tune job (with all the parts) for "free".. and he is sending me the gun for me to try out first without paying! He said try it out and if it's not everything you wish for or what he says it is, then send it back. Anyone looking for a gun should really monitor the Yellow Classfieds daily as well as the talonairgun.com forum where many Talons & Condors get posted first. It is the #1 Air Force forum and it is hosted by the best AF tuner - Tony from TalonTunes. He 's the Paul Watts for AF guns. He 's always booked 3-4 months ahead so there is a long waiting period to get your gun back. Every couple of months one of his guns goes up for sale.. but those are more $ of course. There are always lightly tuned or stock Talons & Condors 4sale like every other week or so. Some of these guys that sell them just upgrade to the more expensive European multi-shot PCP's.
Holdover: There is not much difference at all between Talon & Condor - only power - because the tank is a little smaller (and different valve) in the Talon as well as a ligher hammer & spring. That's about it. You can easily upgrade the Talon to a "Condor" by putting in a Condor tank and upgrading the hammer & spring. Of course to get the full Condor power you 'll have to get a 24" barrel. The longer the barrel, the more power you get with gas guns, just like with CO2 guns. With a 24" barrel on a Talon and nothing else (no Condor tank or hammer), you get 40fpe.
The "top-hat" is like a large "pin" at the front of the valve which gets striked by the hammer and pushes the valve stem inwards, allowing air to be released. If you have already taken apart Springers, then you won't have any problems at all replacing simple things like the hammer, spring, barrel, etc. They all slide right out after you take the barrel off and loosen up 1 screw. The barrel can be replaced (after cleaning, etc.) in <2min. Talon/Condors are very easy to take apart. It only gets a little tricky when you remove or replace the breach slide (cylinder) or its o-ring (to like a heavier durometer o-ring as a modification) but it's not that bad.. NOTHING like working on a springer. These guns are really easy to work on, if you are just installing some better/heavy-duty aftermarket parts. It's another thing when working on the valve and polishing it, or the trigger, etc. That's usually when tuners come in to play or you have a lot of talent and the right tools.
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But trust me, most people don't have to tune these guns and after good tuning & all those parts, the gains are not like night & day like you experience with Springers. These guns are really really great out of the box. The performance gains (and accuracy) from mods and tuning are minimal unless you are looking for 10-15 more FPE, then it will be noticeable or worth the $ you pay for someone to tune your valve well, or for a .25cal barrel which slides right in without mods. Sometimes to get the most power out of the .25 barrel, tuners work the end of the barrel (where the pellet goes in) to match up the breach slide and tophat of the valve perfectly and so that no air is wasted and that the spacing is perfect, etc. but again the gains are minimal, not like "wow, this is different gun".. So get yourselves a Talon or whatever and shoot it out of the box. You won't be disappointed and you 'll say "you were right Harry" (as usual). The only negative side with PCP's is driving to the Scuba shop every couple of months or sooner depending how much you shoot. This is why I 'm getting a 2nd Scuba. My Scuba shop charges $5 to fill a 3K psi tank and they fill it to ~3200psi so I can get more fills.
Any more questions you should probably do it via e-mail because I think we are way off topic and afterall, this is a Diana Springer forum, hehehe.
RWS Diana 350 .22
RWS Diana 36 .177
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
AF Condor .25
AF Condor .22
Crosman custom 2300XT .22
Various other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177
Harry, thanks for the info. Just got home and am trying to digest this. I will most definitely be e-mailing you soon. (Still bleeding for the cost of the new C1) here at Christmas. (A gift to my selfish addiction).
Harry, I am very interested in this gun, the SS. I will spend the next 6 months trying to put together a package together. Thanks for the info on how to buy "used". Sounds like this gun is worth the effort. Please keep us informed.
Thanks Dave
Ps Going on line now to look for a "canoe". Here in tidewater Virginia we have plenty of waterways leading into beautiful forest, where I can take a few pellet guns and shoot pest all day..
Canoeing and looking for critters to shoot sounds like a lot of fun! Of course you would need some calm waters for that, no white water rafting! heheh wouldn't want to get the guns wet!
If I had canals like that here I 'd be doing the same thing. How big do the Nutria get? I have seen pics of central american (Mexico) Nutria taken by Condor & Talon airgunners, and they looked as big as a racoon and fat all around, like twice the size of a groundhog. I think they said they were like 25lbs! Wouldn't you worry about them getting in the water after you shoot them or if they are shot by the river bank and do a death dance and fall in?
I got a 2nd racoon last night and they do a highly acrobatic death dance like a squirrel, except they are so large and do big flips (like summersalts) & jumps and can end up 20ft away in just 4-5 secs or less before expiring.
RWS Diana 350 .22
RWS Diana 36 .177
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
AF Condor .25
AF Condor .22
Crosman custom 2300XT .22
Various other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177
Not intended to scare, but just to get people to be objective
December 16 2008, 7:17 PM
I spent considerable time with the AF guys and I spent a lot of time on the early Talon fora.
The Talon was, for some time, my preferred plarform due to several things: compactness, power and accuracy.
But, as you said, I am a machinist, and many many persons, especially in Chile, Colombia and Argentina, bought Talons because of my articles.
After some not so good experiences, I came to the conclusion that it was better to keep everyone's expectations to a reasonable and sensible level.
Dunno if the Talon forum is still up, but if you go there and look for the articles that started a lot of the interest in the Talon way back about 6-7 years ago, you will find a lot of articles by yours truly.
I ended up diverging from the mainstream and making my own valves. The Talon we are talking about has Mid-Flo valve of my creation. There are other 9 Talons just like it in México and AF people never cared for the real fix to the Hi-Flo valve tendency to break or the problems with the TopHat moving, or the weakest point in the Talon frame: the scope rail. It is a good gun, but it is far from perfect and the syndrome of "if it is not invented here, we will not use it" is not furthering the airgunners best interest.
I know what a simple Talon SS can do, and it could do it AT THE SAME COST of the current production, problem is that that is not what AF is interested in building.
Anyway, that is one of the reasons why I am currently much more devoted to Diana Spring guns.
The other (main) reason is that at sea level, I can get all the performance I need from a spring gun (23 ft-lbs with pin-point accuracy will kill any reasonable airgun quarry), I do not need a PCP. Have not used mine in almost 2 years.
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