Someone (Chris, C.A.P) on the yellow is claiming to get over 28 foot ponds out of his gun with 14.3 grain pellets, with no dieseling and a smooth shot cycle. Is this even possible? He claims to be using some proprietary method to tune the gun to this power, which makes me think this is a little fishy.
925 fps? Conceivable, but on the outer edge of it. I had my 350 spitting .22 FTS @ 875fps. Let me tell you, it was not accurate in that configuration. Detuned to around 800fps resulted in a much more enjoyable, predictable gun.
Now the 1,000 fps the fellow speaks of, that seems like a detonation fueled dream. Ain't no way, at least not with any resonably weighted pellet.
I dunno , Im no expert at it but straight shooters lists the 350 as a 24 FP gun, So picking up four footpounds doesnt sound out of line. But I agree it most likely wont shoot well at those speeds
Tunened around 800 fps is nice. 900 + may be not so "user friendly"?? Just my 2 cents. "Old Tim". (Just a guess on my part,,, as Im just a newbie to this)
Theres no way a D350 can reach the 900s as it is from stock,and the best piston timeing to acheive the highest velocity is usually found by the manufacturers.But by useing tighter seals,thicker wired main-springs,the gun can climb into the 900s.And certainly to acheive accurracy the muzzle-weight must grow,as Gamo has done on the 1250.Only that a +900fps D350 would be a much better gun then the 1250 because of its trigger.
to have a 350 shoot >900fps with 14.3gr pellets because that's the pellet weight I think we are talking about here.
Not a stock 350 of course, but a modified one. My stock 350 used to shoot 865-870fps when it was cold for the first ~2-3shots. It would then settle down to 850 with CP's, and 860 with 14.5gr Beeman FTS.
So yes you can make a 350 shoot >900fps, but I cannot see it being very accurate, but it is conceivable.. If and only if you could remove all twang & torqueing, by using every high quality parts (and lubes) such as naval brass custom guide, top hat, (or even a heavier piston), seal, real good trigger tune, a lot of polishing, etc. with very tight tolerances.
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Diana 350 .22 aka "Old Tim" (J.W. tuned)
Diana 36 .177 CDT tuned
Lemak custom AF Condor .25
Talon Tunes AF Condor .25
Airhog tuned AF Condor .22
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
Crosman 2300XT Custom .22
Other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177
is not the word, in either Models' the RWS 350 and B28 it is more than able to shoot 900 fps
my B28 cold tuned by MM does 864 FPS with Gamo Hunters 15.6 grain pellets
now imagine what it would do with in the FPS department with 14.3 gr. CP's but it dances around the bullseye compared to my 34 shooting 640 fps
the 350 and B28 has RAW power and more than capable to shoot 900 fps, you can get a 1" ctc at 40 yards but the 600-700 fps air guns can do that with a 3/4" or closer ctc at the same yardage
warren
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
Elevation! Someone ran my 54 through a chrony at 500' of elevation. It chronied at 800fps. When I chronied at 2500' it was 38fps slower because of elevation. Everyone on the blogs told me this was quite possible. So to test the theory out I went to 8000' above sea level and it chronied below 700fps. Thinner air slower performance. We all live in different parts of the country and we could pass around the same air gun and get different results. So this guy went to death valley to test for fps on his 350. HaHa So if anyone has a TX200 send it to my house and I'll test it.
So that's why all my guns seem to shoot decent! AND if I move down off this HUGE Eastern Seaboard "Mountain" I live on, I could save 600ft of elevation and be at sea level......
Please sirs, don't try to fool yourselves about this. I'm a very big Diana fan, but a 350 model (stock) is NOT capable to even reach the 26fpe mark.
A more realistic number will be 24-25fpe.
He used a B28 with a 350 piston, some kind of after market spring and machined everything to tight tolerances. He also talked about a Gamo 1250 chugging out 28FPE and another a certain tuner was supposed to be making in .25 to do 30FPE. When asked kind of how this was being achieved, he said it could be done if you knew how and used certain parts to achieve a synergy. When asked later where was the 30FPE gun? Was it done yet? He got insulted and left that forum, saying elsewhere that he had been banned (which was not so according to the forum moderators). Oh, and the gun is very accurate at the higher fps, as well. Who the heck knows?
The G1250 does 28ft/lbs in .22,I own this gun and the D350,mine is a stock gun,and does 28 ft/lbs with 14to16 grain pellets that I tested in mine,with my chroney.Its drawbacks compared to the D350 are its bad trigger,much harder to cock,and its bulky stock.Its accuracy isnt bad,the muzzle weignt it wears,manages to control the barrel flip quit well.And Im convinced that if its trigger was better it would be more accurate then my D350.I bought the G1250 after reading in the gamo forum that it was as powerful as the Patriot,before I thought that the gun couldnt do better then the D350 and that it was just advertising numbers.So I bought it just months after I had bought D350 from curiosity and nothing else,once the d350 had the power I wanted anyway.As for my D350 it does 23ft/lbs with middle weight pellets,and my opinion is that at this power these guns should be bought in .22
As always,,,,,,,,,, Red, your there to throw doubt.!!!!!!!
April 2 2009, 3:30 PM
OK, I have been away form the sites due to a career blow. I was limited to posting. I do have a 350 /28 doing 28 ft lbs and have video to prove it. I have done extensive work on this gun and its a fine shooting weapon. Its well over 900fps with 14.2 grain RWS Super H. I haven't tried it with the Predators as I have none but think it may be even better in the ft lbs dept.. I am trying to get You Tube to load the vid but its having issues. I will get it on here somehow. The gun is extensively tuned by me and has much tighter tolerances. The piston is indeed a RWS 90's version slightly modded. The spring is STOCK and the seal is RWS factory blue. The cylinder was worked on a bit also. I have a few tweaks that work as a WHOLE to make the package work. I am having a stock B28 done right now with a semi tune to see if I can get close to it with a drop in tune . I expect it to do at least 885 to 895. This will be a simple drop in parts and a few other tweaks. It has been sized by me also. This goes to show you what can be done with a fine tuned rifle with some out of the box thinking. I do not know of many .22 350 that come close to 900 let alone break it by a 15 fps. I am no expert tuner but rather a thinker with wisdom to think out side the box. The 28mm chamber is at its limit, However I may have a few fps left for it. I have a few more small tweaks that I did not do as the outcome was so good this time. I want to play with it for a while before I break her down.
For those who said it could not be done, Its true Its as hard as a hitter as there is,. It "Explodes" Grackles and sounds like a Nolan Ryan fast ball hitting a catchers mitt.
As for hard to shoot? Nope its as easy as any magnum springer I have shot. Its not hold sensitive at all. You use a fine grip and fire it. There is not a huge recoil. Its a great hunting gun.
As for the 1250 build. Yes! I am playing with a potential .25 cal to do 30ft lbs. But hey Red, You said it cant be done! That in it self is reason to do it!
If any of you have questions E mail me!
Time for the sarcasm to stop as well as the lip puckering !
First off, Chris was banned just as I was. We were both perceived as threats to some incompetent tuners. My last thread there had over 1800 hits and was going strong when I got the boot.
Chris has a B28 with an older 350 piston and a stock RWS seal and with a lot of work into it. I know what he has done but it's his baby and he'll disclose what info he chooses. He is in MI so I suspect he's not much above sea level whereas I'm at 3500ft.
He is averaging around 910-920fps consistently and grouping less than an inch offhand at 25 yards on a good day. His gun is not dieseling at all because he uses the bare minimum amount of lube possible...far less than what you see in threads about lube tunes. His gun has a stock spring in it and the B28 has no choke or droop. He did tweak the RWS seal which has been posted on other forums. The rest of his tweaks are his to disclose. I'm waiting on some parts and will attempt to match his B28 with mine but without the 350 piston as mine are in use elsewhere. We both want to see if his mods can be reproduced. If I get close with my B28, then I'll use the same tweaks on my 350's.
Regarding the 1250 .25 project.....it's a work in progress. As a .177 it's already breaking the sound barrier with some heavy pellets. In it's current form it seems to be totally pellet agnostic as in everything he shoots from a RWS 6.9gr Super-H-Point to a Beeman Silver Arrow 11.5gr groups about an inch at 25 yards which shouldn't happen as the lighter pellets are definitely supersonic and they should be flying all over the place. He and I cannot explain it. I told him to keep it at .177 but he's going .25 supermag. That's all I will disclose about that project. It probably already smokes my 1250 which is a .20 which I had a respected tuner work on. Mine was not tuned for max power and I farmed out the work after I was made an offer too good to turn down compared to what the machining would have cost me locally. Chris has more resources and wants to build a .25 cannon. I have a front row seat as we swap ideas daily.
Red, you've posted as some kind of expert regarding me after I was banned and much more so about Chris (C.A.P.) but you have no credibility. Why don't you post a list of all the guns YOU have tuned and the results? What's that? How many? -0- 'Nuff said. Red, how many guns can you lube with Maccari's lubes? I visit that other place almost daily....unseen and undetected.
Chris is having trouble posting his video to facebook and I never saved it from several weeks ago. It is totally unedited and the results speak for themselves. He has the strongest shooting B28 hybrid .22 with excellent accuracy, easy cocking, and negligible recoil. The file has been transferred from the camera to his new Vista based laptop and it plays just fine but he's having some problem uploading from there. Hopefully he'll get it sorted out and post the link shortly. I can't wait to see a number of people eat crow.
OK I have a quick vid of me showing the b28/350 doing 913 with Super H 14.2 grain pellets. This was not the first shot but rather one of a few with about 2 min intervals . Real world hunting situations. Notice the barrel as it barley recoils. I am only holding it with my hands and no shoulder. This gun is a smooth magnum. Its been anywhere around 910 to 920 average. I did see a tiny drop after 500 rounds as the gun broke in and burnt any residue out. I use very little lube of my own design. Its molly based and has very little potential detonation. I do not believe in tar as its a crutch to fix a poorly tuned gun.
Believe me its as fun to shoot as it appears. Imagine what it looks like when hitting a animal.
I don't want to spill over from one forum into another
April 2 2009, 8:25 PM
But I did talk with the moderators and forum owner, CAP, and was told you were NOT kicked out. Maybe part of your post was deleted. You did immediately go on the Yellow forum and vent about how you were banished. You also called the one forum owner a thief there, even though you enjoyed posting about you metal triggers and sold more than a few on his.
No, I don't tune guns, just shoot them. I guess I'm still in the box.
I'm super6 who you posted about in the yellow forum after I was banned. Your remarks were less than flattering and not very accurate as you assume too much. But considering the company you keep, I was not surprised then or now.
You know NOTHING about what transpired at another forum, other than what you where allowed to see. What I did was a direct response to what was done to me. Please refrain from trying to disrupt this thread with your lack of truth and innuendos. That is their pit and this is a real forum.
Your lack of knowledge on air rifles is evident by whom you keep company with !
Barry the transfer port is a big part of the equation. I would be willing to share some of my findings. E mail me
"I do have a 350 /28 doing 28 ft lbs and have video to prove it."
OK, then. 913 fps with 14.2 grain pellets (as per your 'Video Proof post', below)is 26.3 ft lbs. Not 28.
This is actually good, as its much more believable. I don't question for a moment that you have a gun that will do this. Totally credible.
My 350 was briefly set up to produce 25.2 ft lbs. The 'tune' wasn't real exotic - stock spring, light oil on spring, moly on piston and guide, stock seal.
It grouped much better at lower power levels, so that's what it went back to.
If you have 'tuned' a 350 to a believable 26 ft lbs, and retained the accuracy of one shooting in the 350's accuracy 'sweet spot' of 20-22 ft lbs, you will have actually accomplished something worthwhile. Find a way to consistently repeat that performance, and that will be the real proof. You will then be a better tuner than Ed K, Jan Kramer, David Slade, Paul Watts, Russ Best, etc, etc., who all seem to agree that high power in springers erodes their accuracy.
Nope ! I am not a tuner . People like Paul Watts , David Slade and , Rich in Mi can and do know MUCH more than I. I just push the limits. As for accuracy I guess its up to the shooter and how the gun responds. I have taken grackles at 40 yards. As you see the recoil and such is minimum. I will get some other pellets to seee how it responds . I have not had a chance or have any yet !
I have nothing to prove but that things can be done and done right. As for repeat ability . I am working with Ray on his 28 to see if we can get a drop in version with out all the fine tuning . Anyways inst that what tuning is making something custom !
I am a bit surprised at the gun my self as I did this tune and saved a few tweaks to test farther. It shot so good I left it for know.
Hi Chris, I have been reading your posts with interest, can I ask you if a 460 might be a better gun to experiment with as it has about the same dimensions as the 350 but a shorter transfer port?
Barry.
What's this shorter transfer thing? I would have thought that was a wash between the 460 and 350, with the advantage to the 350 as the 460 has the width of the seal where the 350 seal is sort of in parallel with the barrel (i.e. the width of metal you need at the end of the piston's travel being about equal)???
The shorter the transfer port the more efficient the gun,lost volume and all that,the port is shorter on the 460 than the 350 less lost volume.
The old Webley Eclipse was a big gun but it lost power because of the long flip up transfer port.
Barry.
Chris's gun is a XS-B28 with a RWS/Diana piston with a slightly chopped barrel with no choke. If my B28 with the original piston can come close to his numbers then we're onto something. Even if results are repeatable with the B28, it does not guarantee the same for a RWS350. While accuracy is good with the modded B28, it may not be the case with a 350 and its choked barrel, as is posted above. Chris has a very hard shooting 34 with a chopped barrel, excellent accuracy, a very basic tune, and no choke.
If I can repeat Chris's success with my B28, it will be up to me if I want sacrifice a 350 to the same set of mods. We shall see.
The transfer port is one piece of the puzzle. By its very nature, it is a compromise on the part of the manufacturer. One easy example is one gun available in multiple calibers. I'll leave it at that for now.
Chris builds for power for hunting. If he fires a 10-shot string, one right after another, he averages in the teens. The video is one shot in the middle of a string. But for a hunting gun, that doesn't mean much. If you're out hunting it's the first shot out of a cold gun that counts and is almost always the highest pellet speed. So when he shoots a 10-shot string with 5-10 minutes between shots, he's averaging right at 925fps. That simply is a more accurate way to measure a hunting gun as it more closely mimics hunting. So I can honestly say that he is not trying to mislead anyone...you just need to understand his logic.
It looks though that when people hear a springer doing over 25FPE,something happens to them.Chris didnt say that he pulled the gun out of the box and shot it over 900fps,he said that work has been done on the gun.My expierience from differant forums and numbers given from people on velocities has convienced me that they didnt lie.And saw with my own eyes velocities acheived by airguns that I had doubts before through the years.The G1250 in .22 does 28 ft/lbs with all middle weight pellets,but out of the Gamo forum many people continue to doubt this ability.Guys simply be more open minded,if you want people to continue to give information because people that know the sport of airgunning have no problem of remaining silent.
