Just thought I'd ask the question as to what you'd like to see from a Diana airgun, these can be mods to existing rifles, or completely new ideas.

For me the list would start:

1. Fix barrel droop problem so a scope is mounted near it's optical centre without having to fit special mounts.
2. Produce the rifles more geared towards a 12 ftlbs setup - or aim for a similar set-up to AirArms / Weihrauch.
3. Ditch the plastic parts and replace with metal.
4. Improve the triger - this may be sorted with T06 trigger.
5. Improve quality control.
6. Look at the option of running the rifles on nylon/ptfe bearings.
7. Get a stock designed by Paul Wilson or Gary Cane.

Some of these options are impossible to implement due to cost considerations but others aren't.

What would you ask for?

regards,

Matt

Innovation for Diana: let them make the stocks by father and son Gentilini ! Very nice craftmanship ( there are forummembers who have the skills to do the same "Old Tim" and better looking than what tjey sell now except the Stutzen. Second: let them go back to the old craftmanship in fabrication and quality control, bad situation that rifles are leaving the factory without some grease on it ! Third: let them make a PCP from the quality of the AA brand, a lot of the "old world" Diana fans switch to AA's because their quality is for more better for the same money. Best regards from Johannis.

Good question Matt. I especially like your comment " Produce the rifles more geared towards a 12 ftlbs setup - or aim for a similar set-up to AirArms / Weihrauch"!
I think that is a cornerstone to why those guns have a great reputation. Instead of caving into the magnatitis crowd, they have maintained dignity with quality. Start with the model 34. Seems they are cheapening that gun everyday and raising the prices to boot. Start a new marketing program that focuses on "Quality" not FPS. Start by having just two models of the 34. A standard model and a carbine and redo the qun with a great trigger, butt stock, etc.Make it a great gun, instead of a "better than average gun". Design a gun that will kick butt on the TX 200 in quality and accuracy. Use great wood, great triggers, and make them a true classic that only improves in quality, and the public can rest assured that the guns will not be cheapened in the future.

It appears to me that Diana is continuing to market their guns to compete with Gamo etc. rather than go the route of AA. That is the decision they will have to make. It appears that it has already taken place.

And finally, as Jan suggested develop a PCP. Not JUST a PCP, but one that will start off as a classic! A TRUE QUALITY GUN FROM THE BEGINNING!

DAVE

Dave, you're right ! They must have the skills, the engineers and the workshop to make a PCP as good as the Steyr's ( 110 ) in a nice stock to create a new "classic Diana" for the coming 50 years. Good point of you: seems also to me that they move to "the Gamo way", perhaps not bad for sales for not good for quality. We can see this in the new BSA spring rifles, to mucht Gamo influence unfortunately ! What we see is that AA is maintain a very high standard, no electronic gadgets like Daystate but air rifles with a high %-tage knowledge from the people who use them ! One of the factory's who has attention for what their customers ask ! Best regards from Jan.

Precharged is the wave of the future, Something along the lines of the Benji discovery .

Ditch the plastic,

prelubed, so the rifle is smooth and doesnt squeek when you cock it

ajustable trigger .

shrouded like the Gamo whisper, but leaveing room for people to "make ajustments" with simple tools .

After market stocks from Diana, I think thats an untapped market for Diana here in the US . walnut , checkering, thumhole, synthetic, tactical ect...

after market barrels with improved performance, that can be changed easily

Ive never seen a checkerd 34, except on the panther, and I liked it

The ability to upgrade and customize the rifle, drop in parts which may be to expensive for production models but still made avilible .Trying to please everyone's taste and budget, with one rifle, is next to impossible,

It seems it would be cheaper to upgrade some rifles then a complete new design , Look at the sucsess of the Panther, a simple stock change and the pro models with the muzzle brake. Its the same gun as the 34,.......But its not.

Look to Benjamin and Air force for sucsessfull models,Benjamin slammed the market with the discovery, an affordable precharged, which was nice looking good shooting and very affordable.And there is a waiting list for the new marauder.

Airforce is built on adaptbility to different preferences , The naked Condor is around 500, with all the bells and whistles its 1,500, Not every body is going to drop 1,500 on thier airguns at one time, but overtime,they,ll aquire more add ons to thier rifle.

Buying the whole finished product all at once isnt always nessasary,Selling differt grades of the same rifle will keep people coming back. Capture the customer once,not 50 times , always leave room for improved parts and performence

Just tossing out some ideas,

Some good points were made in this post.
Quality will always sell and If I was calling the manufacturing shots, I would put that on top of my priority list.
However, producing a quality gun that can be modified and up-specced as the owner becomes more savvy about airgunning... well, I doubt if it would succeed in practice because some basic parameters like cylinder volume and stroke are not easily changed even by a knowledgeable user.
The present cost of such drop-in parts and fettling, would make purchasing an alternative model in the required spec, probably more feasible.
Stuff like stocks, sights and barrel add ons, are more straight forward in this respect.
As far as triggers go, they should be made properly from the word go. No cost cutting is justified here, except perhaps on the most basic of plinkers.

HW built their reputation on their triggers and solid engineering.They provide for all segments, plinkers to powerhouses.
They've not gone bust have they?



Making a full power spring gun is relatively easy and there are plenty about.
Making one that is pleasant to use and lasts a long time because it is well made, is a totally different story.It will inevitably cost more. Full Stop.

Diana know how to and can make quality, but comparing like with like, HW and AA seem to have this segment of the market pretty well sewn up between them at the moment.

Well thanks for correcting my opinion Dave,

"1. Fix barrel droop problem so a scope is mounted near it's optical centre without having to fit special mounts.

5. Improve quality control."



Regards,
Alberto

Being in the US, I want FAC power, not 12 ft lb (but since I already have a collection of 46's, I already have 12 ft lb...). Since I'm an underlever fan, I would like them to improve the 460 to something like a 16 fpe gun in .177 and 18fpe in .22. Go for smooth and accurate, not max power. Do something about the paper thin anti bear trap release mechanism/stock issues, and keep it as light as possible (i.e. a sporter, not a FT gun). I like their FT concept, but it is lipstick on a pig until they detune it a little. They could then move this concept to the FT gun (and of course the trigger to the sporter). They could probably fix the breech lock spring with a heavier spring. That and the lighter mainspring would fix the breech seal problem. Of course, most of this is within the reach of anybody with a 460, but you don't get the stock fix easily of all of Matt's other items.

PS keep the blowout pricing on the Refurbs.....

in the U.S. I looked at the Diana catalog and they have some pretty cool bling. Got a couple of nice FT targets, some nice shirts, caps, etc. Right now, I'd really like to actually SEE one of the new pistols.

fixed shorter barrel with built in silencer
side lever
22 ft/lbs in .22
compression cylinder sleeve and 25mm piston in various stroke lengths and weights to tune
stainless steel
full cylinder length weaver rail
safe quick loading (popup martini type)???
target stocks
butt hook
trigger measured in grams
oh and a multi pump pneumatic with at least some of the above of the above since Sheridan do not seem to want the business any more

I think he answers 90% of your questions.

Me - Bring back the Models 27 and 50.

I went to the Diana web site a few days back,alot of what your asking for they are making already,some really beautiful stuff.I think the perception of lower and lower quality is because thats what the importers want to sell.

Thanx for the replies guy's they are informative.

Have read Hector's thread and it does provide interesting reading, the barrel side of things is very interesting as I must admit if I could source a number of Diana barrels I would have them fitted to all my pcp's.

The diana pcp is an interesting one, would certainly like to help or be involved with that one. Wonder if they would go with all their own design or involve or licence an existing design off of say one of the existing independant designers.


regards,


Matt

for me the 48/52 is just so close to airgun perfection that the only gun i would consider changing to would be an upgraded 48/52 and to be fair they do seem to be getting there bit by bit

Screw and lock in barrels, so caliber and length changes are an easy swap. Also recoil butt pads standard.

Hay, what are you trying to do, burst our bubble! We got a fantasy thread going Hector is reporting reality (and doing a really good job positioning why that is the reality!). I worry about economic drivers and how it impacts actions all the time at work, escape is much sought after.

No need to correct 'barrel droop' Matt, I like to see down my open sights with ease thanks, and comp mounts work great

More attention to internal lube-like putting some in-essential

They need an underlever with direct barrel load, like the 460 for 12ftlb market, so a 'shrunken' 460, much in the dsame way it looks as though the new 280 is a 'shrunken' 34

If going pcp, don't follow the crowd, make it possible for fac option uk (26 ftlb is ample -a la hw), make it simple, robust, the attributes the brand is known for

Finishing needs attention to, but on the whole the worst thing in the UK is 'brand awareness', most people in shops think of Diana's as big cumbersome rifles, they've never seen the new gen stuff.

Anyone want to sponsor me to drive around showing them off ?

And to the poster re the TX, the newer 31/34 with a basic tune, beat a factory TX for shootability even with a T0-5, TXs too heavy for most shooters who are not 'into' air rifles.

The scope the Diana's have for post factory tuning is excellent, people need to be more aware that this level of spring gun is like blank race boat waiting to be 'fettled' to owners requirements. These are up there at the top of the makers, not mid market.

Dianafan wrote:

"No need to correct 'barrel droop' Matt, I like to see down my open sights with ease thanks, and comp mounts work great"

"And to the poster re the TX, the newer 31/34 with a basic tune, beat a factory TX for shootability even with a T0-5, TXs too heavy for most shooters who are not 'into' air rifles."


As a mater of fact I think they do need. At least when the drooping is severe, as we can see in some rifles, sometimes.

Please, don't compare the AA TX200 with a Diana 34. They are two different types of airguns:

- The TX200 has been designed for the Field Target competition.
- The D34 is a barrel-cocker rifle designed for leisure and free time.

Until now the TX still is the spring-piston Rolls-Royce, in a relation of power/acuracy (14.5 foot-pounds, in .177) and firing-behavior.



I'm, also, a Diana fan. But, the truth must be said.

I!!!

and I!! alone would like M/G, DIANA, RWS to survive

warren

PS: of course so would you

and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

"I!!!

and I!! alone would like M/G, DIANA, RWS to survive

warren

PS: of course so would you"


LOL

WARREN,

YOU'RE A REAL FUNNY GUY... LOL!

The huuuuuuuuge plastic front sight on the 460 , How did that ever even make it on the rifle to begin with? I always thought the globe sight with pointed front sight was excellet.Why change a winner? at least thin the thing out,it is as wide as my pellet at the barrel,

The older 34 was a different rifle, the 'new' 34s with bigger cylinder, longer sweep are a different beast

The TX are very good, and have a good out of the box performance.

However as we are sub 12 ftlb here in the UK, I can tell you that one of the new 34s with a V Mach tune will have a much quicker lock time than a factory TX, which are a little slow

AA actually now use what would behere fac pistons in their rifles, in effect making 12 ftlb performance a little sluggish

The new 34s can also perform at at least 14 ftlb if required

The US is kinda alone as World Wide ft gets standardised to sub 12ftlb.

TX's here in the UK are often improved by enthusiasts, especially since the MK III which exhibits the slower lock than previous versions (but easier cocking effort)

With all respect, you really need to shoot a well tuned new Diana, many shooters over here have been gobsmacked.

Can't wait for the new T0-6 triggers.

I don't know the costs of AA in US , but even though Diana are not 'cheap' here, you could easily buy one and have the best tune money could buy for less than a factory TX.
I think a side by side shoot would surprise a few people...............................

I'm not sure about that, I have a old 34s with the 38 firebird stock and it has a 28mm bore and 85mm stroke and can go to 16 ft/lbs if fitted with a pow-lok spring, but I dont have a new type to compare so just a opinion, I am sure someone hear knows though.
Barry.

Here is what I would like to see as an integral feature in all future Diana airguns:




When the needle hits the red on your gun, sell it and buy something else you can live with.

To Dianafan:

- I've never shot a recent D34. And, yes, according to Tom Gaylord, and some other airgun experts, this new one(Panther & the wooden stock version) is MORE acurate and has a more more firing behavior.

- Here in Portugal, and also in Spain, the FT power limit allowed is up to 17.7ft-lbs (24 joules).

- Can you reach the same shot groupings with the new D34, comparing these with the ones from the TX? Saying, at 40-50 yards? Yes, 50 yards, because we can only check the inherent acuracy of an airgun, performing at those distances.
One thing I know for sure: Light as the mod.34 is, to maintain pin-point impacts at those distances (and also with the full power stock version) is not an easy task to do.

- A lot of spanish athlete reach very good results with the Cometa Fénix, in the carbine version. For the full-power Fénix they use the .22 caliber, for the detunned 12 ft-lbs the .177.
But, even so, the TX is a gun from a superior platform, whenever FT sport is concerned.

* mild firing behavior

Mild can have many readings.

If you want a 12 ft-lbs springer, then there are a lot of good guns. Few outstanding ones.

Get a D-54 in 4.5 mm's, shortstroke it to 12 ft-lbs using the strong spring, and you will see what is truly Match-like behaviour.

The TX-200 is a traditional gun and therefore there are many out there that can tune one, but if we really want to take the "next step", we need to go to recoil-less platforms, like the D-54.

JMHO



Un Abrazo!




H�ctor

I have one in .177. Maybe when the spring goes and it is time for a rebuild, that would be a good option. They are such a nice gun, I'm puzzled that Diana doesn't run with that platform in a milder version.

you simply use a long stem inside that piston!



It is truly a simple thing (of course there are other changes, but this is the basic one).

I am tooling up, still, but in a few weeks I will be able to do this kind of things.

If and/or when you decide that you want something like this done, drop me a line.



Un Abrazo!




H�ctor

Hector , You mentioned short stroking the Diana 54.
Is it available now and can you explain a bit more
on why this makes a more pleasent shooter??

Hector,

when I said "mild", meant a soft firing behavior.

I know the D54 very well. It's a GREAT gun (in full power the .22 is the best choice), and for this reason I had quotted it as my favorite Diana rifle.

My previous posts were referring to the Field Target competition. And the comparation between the D34 and the AA TX200, this done by our mate Dianafan.

Something in between the 24/240 & the 34. Carbine size,,full shroud/moderator,, honest 750 fps.Nice Walnut Monte Carlo Ambi stock. And of course,, a world class PCP!! "Old Tim"

Yes, it's time to put to rest all the tension and worrying about just what the folks at M&G are going to come up with in the air gun future.









I'll just set the old Time Machine for, say, seventy years into the future and push this lever, so!









Woops! He, he, er, wrong way. Let's try again! Forward, ho!









"Wilkommen to M und G! Let me show you vhat vee haf been up to in der last seven decades!"









"Here ist der Diana Model P5 T134"












"Und don't forget der P5 magnum!"












"Das iss der Model 34 T217. Und notice, mit out der droopen in der barrel! (Ve finally said 'Oh, der heck mit it!', but maybe fifty years after you died. Hey, better late than never, yah?)"











"Here ist der latest 54000 Field Target mit range finder, magnetic levitation (no schpring) und direct brain/trigger implant. Knock dem schvirrels down!"















"Herr Tim, sorry, but schtill verking on der PCP. Almost there! Any century now!"















"Der fraulines in R und D are working on Der Big Bore Projekt, too!"











"Und not to forgetting der snazzy new schtocks!"















"I would show you more but ve are schtill having problems mit You Know Who..."














"Und their clones."
















Well, I hope that has satisfied your curiosity for the present,..er...future...whatever!











Now, everyone write down

how can i upgrade or improve the power of my diana 34 classic air rifle

built-in power plant in carbine and pistol. Also SSP and MSP airguns. Price ranges
from $300-$1200. Decent adult airguns.

it does exist and it is called the M94 which is really a

COMETA 400 with a 16" barrel (carbine)

it shoots 700 FPS in .22 cal STOCK and accurate also, NO M34 does this out of the box

get one, shoot one, and you will find out the secret

AND the wood on the M94 is like NO M34

how do I know all of this???

because I have the M34 and the M94

now Imagine this one!! a Cometa de-tuned to 600 fps??? and your CTC would shrink

the Webly Xocet with a 14" barrel is another contender to the power of the RWS M34

Diana has some of the older air rifles but there are other brands you have to consider

just tune a Crosman Quest 800 ($150.00) air rifles with a LW barrel and you have a diamond that out matches the M34

there are many other brands out there, you just have to shoot them to find out

keep sleeping M&G (Diana) while the rest of the world passes by you and you will be a RELIC of the past

like Dave say's "the older the better" or does the new ones try to copy the old ONES

your $$$$ to spend, your JOY to shoot, or your brand to select

warren

and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

With synthetic seals, the three ball trigger and better scope rail. And a couple of $100 bills inserted into the barrel for all those who think it's still inferior and want to improve it themselves.

STOCKS AND BARRELS!!!!!

People love to customize thier rifles,I dont know why Diana is bypassing a great market

short barrels, medium barrels, Lothar walter barrels,match grade barrels,heavy barrels, parkerized barrels, black tactial barrels thumbhole stocks, synthetic stocks, walnut stocks ,tactical stocks, fancy pantsy stocks .and even one with a compass in the stock differnt types of open sights


One thing I think Diana has over most over springers is thier beauty. I know they can come up with some gorgous stocks.

I think haveing the ability to change your rifle configuration around is a great selling point

oh and use better spring guides , or at least have a custom upgrade availibale for thier internal parts ,IE: A TWO STAGE TRIGGER!!!

One rifle doest have to cost the same.you can order a basic model or an advanced model with a compass in the stock. same gun different configureations

Look at the sucsess of the panther! Its the same as a 34, but now, for a little more, you have the panther,and the panther pro.

which guys rushed out to buy. same idea across the board, only expanded to include more expensive but nicer parts.

Just my opinion.

Might want to repost it as a separate question.

"Look at the sucsess of the panther! Its the same as a 34, but now, for a little more, you have the panther,and the panther pro."

exactly my point

great post

some one looking into the M34???

"look at the panther! Its the same as a 34, but now, for a little more, you have the panther, and the panther pro.

which guys rushed out to buy. "

NOT

to ME

I mean your post


you left something out


did you find anything wrong with the M34

what cal.


what 34 are you talking about


are you improving the RWS 34??

NO DICE

still friends???

ok

warren





and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

nothing wrong with the 34, its a classic!

What I was trying to say is, haveing the ability to personalize, customize your own gun.

Wouldnt you love to have a nice walnut checkered stock for your 34? or 350?

or maybe have a match grade barrel ?

The 34 is great , but there is always room to personalize or improve

Want a walnut stock? Order one from a stock maker or convince Boyds that there is another market besides Ruger 10/22's. Lothar match barrel? Some tuners offer these, installed.

Automakers offer many options to their standard line of cars, within a reasonable limit. Beyond that, you have to go custom. The older Luxus models may have had walnut stocks at one time, but no longer. Guess there just isn't a market for such. Remember, the US market, especially the small sector which represents owners who frequent these forums, is only 10% of Diana's world-wide sales.

In short, options for improving/customizing Diana's already exist.

Send the rifle out internally lubed without rough finished chopped off springs and damaged piston seals

Blue the full barrel rather than hide an unfinished barrel under a barrel weight.

Use screws or better hex bolts that aren't so soft the heads turn to must if you have to take your rifle out of the stock

The use of a better running piston/trigger would help as would a reduction in transfer port sizes for UK rifles.

The plastic end caps that wobble about-cummon ......................

Don't fob off customers when they point these things out to them.


And I like them !


They COULD be the market leaders, but do they really want to change ????????????????????????????????

Just buy a 460 all that has been done.

Spend some time and get rid of the Twang,,,don't know about the rest of you but if they would run me out of business with a twangless rifle that shoots good it would be just fine with me. I heard all the good about the German rifles, accurate and easy to shoot then got my first one....TWANG, thought that was only for Chinese stuff. I would pay an extra $50 to $100 for an out of the box rifle that was a smooth shooter....

mailto:flyingdragonairrifles@hotmail.comhttp://www.airgunartisans.com/flyingdragon/

And the more power they try to wring out of them, the greater the twang. Eliminating all twang can be done - has been done, but you would be paying more than $50 - $100 for the pleasure. I think Whiscombes are about the only "hunting" level springers built to those specs.

Hi Barry, if you'd seen the state of my last new rifle, and the response from Diana via RUAG you'd see why I'm a little unhappy.

Improvements take time, but you expect a bit of after care, not a fob off.

They should have asked for the rifle back to be finished properly, and resprung at their cost, or made amends. It was shoddy, very shoddy.

If they upset people who buy their products, and openly give them support, it does kinda rock your confidence somewhat.

Do they really use good quality screws in the 460 ? The ones in my 34 are as soft or softer than the ones in my Original 45.


I like Diana's, but don't like the old brush off when things aren't right. If I wanted that sort of back up I could buy some other well known 'brand leaders' mentioning no names ............................

Well, well

"What would you guy's like to see from a Diana in the future"

M&G is struggling in this economy and the USA market for them is only 10% of their market, the rest of the world is 90% of their market

will they listen to the USA??, get real!!!

a M34 in the USA SELLS FOR $200.00 BUT IN Spain and Germany it is twice that much and in India it is 3 X as much

are you people talking about semantic's or economic's??

just HOPE that Diana survives this ecomony CRISIS, Webly and Scott are no longer with us, they were sold to Turkey and they had a 200 year run for the money

GAMO is making their Pellets in Spain, Diana is assembling their air fifles' in Romania and Crosman is the only company left in the USA that assembles everything in American soil

Diana went from 2,000 people at the plant in Rasttat, Germany in 2004 to 600 in 2009, because they are selling 60% less of their production capacity

the #'s are hard for Diana but also for other factories, even for the Chinese

warren





and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

Hi, The main criticism of my 460 is a weak lock up spring and trigger wanting a bit of attention,two very easy things for Diana to put right. I have had had my 460 dismantled more than 10 times and the screws are still like new,and I found the internal quality excellent, but I dont know if all 460s are the same as I have read hear in old posts that some can be lemons, but if they are all like my one it would be hard to complain.
I bought my 460 in march with the intention of tuning it myself so I knew that I would have no guarantee but RUAG was still helpful and replaced my trigger sent separate so that was OK but the problem is the time you have to wait for spares. So I can only tell you about my experiences.
Barry.

Warren: last info I heard on the Midland Game and Country Sports Fair in the UK this month is that Daystate is in hands of Italians Perhaps they put the name Beretta on their products in the future Best regards from Joahnnis.

They are, after all, a Spanish company. Gibe them some credit - at least they aren't made in China.

I think Diana will be around for a long time to come. If only as the Chinese R&D division, LOL!

This thread EVER going to die????

with the world economy changing every 5 day's, not every 5 months' we all have to be with the ear "close to the ground"

GM stopped the production of the Pontiac and the Saturn brand was sold to Penske, this is a BIG company that sell 25,000 vehicles a year and they have folded

M&G sells about 6,000 M34's a year, do the math??

is outsourcing the solution or the real problem!!!

Crosman is the ONLY USA company producung air rifles in the USA and may I ask WHY??

warren

PS: lot's of thinking short on space to type the reasons we are under

2010 will reveal itself for everyone






and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

US wages (including pension plans).