Dave (Login Atelang) from IP address 68.98.243.152
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It does not take much work to do a search on the forums to see that the new Marauder is the most talked about and enthusiastic air gun on the market.When Crosman hired new engineers to develop a new PCP they went to work and launched the Discovery, which became a instant winner. Rather than rest on their laurels, they went right away to improve the design. hence, the Marauder. This is a company that is listening to their people, their customers, and to the American Airguner. They also have a keen sense of the market place. The Marauder is what every one had on their wish list for a good gun. High velocity, light weight, accurate, Quiet, affordable. After decades of manufacturing fine air guns, Diana seems to be asleep at the wheel. They only now say that they are looking into a PCP gun. Quality control seems to be going down, and they really seem to have no marketing strategy than to just survive.While the to5 trigger was a fine trigger, no less it is not what the market place wanted. They didn't get it.
Crosman will only improve on the Marauder. Perhaps they will have a gun in the future that will be challenge to the great seller the "Talon and the Condor", something smaller and more of carbine version. Crosman also understands marketing. Log onto their website and your will see that they are very active in promoting this great sport.
If springer s do not phase out, and the pcp market takes over you can bet that Crosman will develope a quality Spring barrel well before Diana builds a quality PCP. JMO
If Diana is becoming extinct, THEN I NEED TO BUY ANOTHER 34. I love mine and it's quality. Crosman might be doing good, but they have YET to produce a quality springer.
PCP's and springers are as different as chalk and cheese.
If other companies want to develop PCP's its their business, but its not fair to bemoan Diana just because they not specialize in PCP's.
PCP's are good if one is ready to put up with a lot of scuba gear and keep a mental tally of hoew many shots were fired etc etc.
Springers are less demanding and infinitely more fun.
One thing that gets me is how Diana failed to capitalize on scores of years producing good springers, yet other more recent newcomers such as Air Arms have managed to produce both quality and technically competent airguns for reasonable money.
I strongly believe it is not beyond Diana's capability to turn things around in their favour and produce quality springers.
Two different guns, your reading the advertising hype.
IT was surprising to see that Benjamin/Crossman entered the multishot PCP market and offering a rifle to compete against the Euro brands with a much more affordable price... Materials are materials and machining is machining and quality costs more to have both.
I think some of you may be missing the point. Of course there are differences in a PCP vs springer. Which one you like is strictly a matter of preference. Hey I own about 7 or 8 springers. The point I was trying to make is the fact that Crosman is listening to the market place. And it is my opinion that the PCP is fast becoming more popular than a springer.The discovery was a tremondous success and the Marauder will most likely out surpass it.It also seems to me that a guy that goes over to the dark side, is more likely to stay with PCP's than vice versa.For power and accuracy I don't see how you can beat it. One poster made a comment that he like Springers, because he did not want to take HPA equipment into the woods" How many shots do you need in the woods in the first place would be my question. And the fact that you CAN use a pump is a tremendous bonus.
I personally do not like high velocity springers. 30 yards max is the greatest distance I will go with one. But for high velocity, no kick, and greater accuracy the PCP seems like the logical choice.
For quality, I have not heard many that did not praise the Discovery. For the price tag, it is one hell of a buy. I would certainly go with a Marauder over something that cost so much more. If the Marauder is as sound as the Discovery I just wonder how much quality control you really need to justify the price? Knowing what I know now, I would have bought a Marauder over my Diana 460. which seems to keep dropping in price every day. Before it was detuned, it was a major project to Cock! If you can get 30 pellets fired in the woods on a single charge with a Maurder, it sure beats having to cock a rifle that feels like you are jacking up a house for 30 times!
for sure, PCP's are less demanding to shoot accurately, but personally I find they are more demanding to own in the long term.
As for cocking some springers being akin to jacking up houses... why should they ever be? Unless one is unfortunate and suffers from some physical ailment, most springers are designed to be cocked by just about anyone of average strength, provided no mega springs are used in the quest for power or barrels shortened too much.
I remember an airgun made by Browning in Belgium that had a battery driven electric motor to cock back its piston. Do you you call this luxury, indulgence or what?
I remember thinking what a waste of energy and resources to produce such a thing when at the end of the day, it was no more powerful, quicker or accurate than most conventional springers available at the time. It was unusual, but that was all it was.
Essentially PCPs are no more demanding to produce than a good springer.
What you have is a cylinder with HP air, a valve and a striker for bleeding consistent amounts of the HP air into the barrel to push the pellet out of the barrel. Its very simple really and this design goes back to the 16th century.
I would go as far to say that non regulated PCPs, are actually far less complicated to produce well, since they have less moving parts than a springer.
In springers, getting the right balance of the moving masses and producing consistent tolerances in pistons and cylinders calls for added manufacturing expense that is not always appreciated by uninformed folk who judge an airgun by its velocity rather than its manners and mechanical integrity.
Its no wonder that reasonably priced PCPs with their velocity potential are in such demand.
They are also introducing a Vortek (licensed copy?) gas ram that is built in the US. Now, if they can upgrade the rest of the gun to go with it, they may really have something. But, yes, Crosman does have its ear to the ground.
David, I have to agree with you to a point. All my springer s are easy to cock. Personally I prefer light to medium guns. In fact, I personally do not even believe that Springers were ever designed to shoot long yardages in the first place. I am about 6ft tall, and weight abut 180 lbs. I have always been athletic and continue to work out. But try cocking a 460 for about 20 rounds and yes it begins to feel like you are raising a house. It was a pain in the Ass! I had my 460 de-tuned for better accuracy,smoother shooting and yes easier cocking. I still think you and Warren are missing the point. I have nothing against sprinters, I love mine. I probably will not even buy a PCP. But if I ever want to hunt and shoot long distance's I will buy a PCP. By the way, if you have ever read many of my post, you will see that I am one the most strongest advocates against High Velocity in Air Guns.
The point I was trying to make, is not what you, Warren or myself want, it is what the public wants.It is marketing!
I would love for Crosman to start making a great respectable springer in the 7-12 lb line. Not just any Spring gun, but a fine, great spring gun. If they could design one, like my R7, or tuned 34, and start to market the benefits of a gun like that, they could have great success.
Words from the Master.
"Forget massive power as that equates solely into massive problems. Accept a nice 11-12 ft lbs and you could have a real nice gun"!
According to the marketing guys the general public seems to be heading the PCP way, then its only natural and perfectly understandable for some airgun manufacturers to satisfy that demand.
In just about any manufacturing concern, the production manager and the quality control manager are the two guys who are always at loggerheads.
Successful companies always seem to strike a happy medium between the two.
Now if you combine this with a company that has its ears to the ground and delivers what the public wants, selling what you produce becomes a lot easier, be it a springer or a PCP.
Word of mouth and a healthy economy does the rest.
Personally I am quite happy with the current capabilities of a modern well-sorted springer because I've been around on the airgun scene for ages and handled from pressed steel airguns to double-piston recoiless marvels.
I know what a good springer can deliver, without any strings attached.
So if any of the marketing guys are looking...
here is what I would like them to produce in a springer....
Pistons that run on synthetic bearings in well fitting cylinders,
well fitting spring guides,
well sorted triggers,
good metal fit and finish,
Adjustable stock,
peep sights(not open sights) as standard.
The big question is, how much will it cost to produce this and is the public informed enough to appreciate what these differences can make in a springer?
It is no wonder that PCPs are in such demand when compared to run of the mill springers.
It took them almost 8 years to turn the company around, but they did it.
Now they need to keep the quality up, especially in the pellet department.
There is saying in Spanish that goes "En gustos, se rompen géneros", meaning that as far as tastes are concerned, you can break up all the cloth ells and you will never get everyone to agree. Point is that there is a LARGE market for some things and not so large markets for other things.
Their Nitro is a good experiment, and as far as Gas Rams go, you can now buy gas springs (tunable) from several sources, notably one Italian company called Pela Spring.
Because of the way, Diana pistons are built, they do not take easy to gas rams; Webleys and other Beeman's are easier to GasRam.
And then there is the eternal discussion of whether the Gas Ram is really better, starting from the point of view that Gas Rams are at least 20% less efficient than steel springs (measuring the energy put in and the energy obtained back). But, to each his own.
I do hope that Crosman keeps on the good path, it is always good to have good companies in the market and Crosman has come a LONG way.
i have a 460 i really like after i got it back from umerax but i got a marauder to try the pcp shooting.i may expect to much for 550 dollars but i think there could have been some better quality in the new crossman.
