and even a little to a lot jacked up right out of the box right from the manufacturer
and not from damages during shipping nor someone messing with it before the new gun
is sold. Then there's the ones that it's hard to find parts and service/repair. Also
there are more than a few that look great but can't handle some serious regular usage.
I could go on and on!
I do like airguns but IMO many airguns suck including some expensive ones. Heck a lot
of expensive airguns aren't really put to serious regular use out in the field yet
more than a few owners of them slam Chinese, Gamo, Crosman, etc.
A few good solid low hassle airguns is all I want. I'm not into collecting, pack ratting,
just looking at them and showing them off with an occassional few shots before putting
back in the safe for months at a time.
If I had to fiddle, tinker with my car, truck, mowers, etc. every other day I would
soon be POed! Truth is IMO a lot of airguns suck!
Those are the ones I shoot the most! Trying to get them right. My experience with most of the RWS guns is pretty good, but I struggled with the 460 to get it right and the 46 .22 is still giving me problems, but I am now at 10 go to guns....
Quality smality! It appears that quality is not related to "prestige" or "heritage" any longer! My 34 was a twangy mess before I had it tuned. It really appeared Diana was trying to milk the most out of the spring as far as fps is concerned. My 460 had to be sent back to Umarex for a new trigger by my friend that was doing the tune on the gun. Umarex stated that they were having a lot of problems with that trigger. Hell, I paid over $600 for that gun at that time. I hear that a lot of HW quality has gone down as well. The only guns I have not had a problem with are the "Oldies". My R7, two C1's. and my vintage HW 30.
you need to experience a 1972 FWB 300s. they exhude quality. people are not willing to pay what that kind of quality would cost today in a spring powered air rifle. the only way to get it is to buy an old one. some of that may hold true for other makes as well. however, having said that there are many pcp and ssp air rifles of exceptional quality and people are willing to pay $3000.00 for them. do they suck? no more so than the cars we drive, the appliances we use and the houses we live in.
The trouble with today's airguns is that most manufacturers are caught in the power race and the hype makes us want to believe that they should behave like powder burners, which they can never be.
That's to say nothing of the many manufacturing compromises that abound in many makers' models. All in the name of economics of course.
It is no wonder that many discerning airgunners buying new guns can become disillusioned.
I dare say that there are really very few high powered airguns still in production, that just about make the mark quality wise.These survive because their basic design was so good, but with production control plummeting and costs rising, their days are numbered. Springers are made up of a lot of really simple components each one of which is inextricably connected to something just as simple.
Considering their mechanical simplicity, it should not be taken for granted that they will always perform, because its is the collection of many small parts working in perfect harmony that makes a good shooter.
As soon as the quality of just one of these small parts is broken,that's when trouble starts.
Further more, quality is not only about how good a part looks, its also about dimensions, hardness and fit.
These things cost a lot more money than making the finished product LOOK good and shoot FAST.
If you want quality that works right each time, buy an older quality airgun for nearly the same money a new one costs today.
It might not shoot as hard as today's airguns, but those oldies are all about accuracy and good workmanship, made by people who knew what metal work is all about, mostly without undue hassle by the production manager.
It makes you proud owning one.They do not last 30/40 odd years, and still counting, by chance.
Finally, perhaps we should put hand on our hearts and stop wanting our airguns to behave like powder burners, accept them for what they are and give them more credit considering their subtle (and challenging) complexities and today's manufacturing pressures.
D
I agree but newer guns like the 460 there is no older alternative, I have a 10 year old HW80 that is quality but it still needed a new guide and spring and a washer to protect the teeth on the piston sleeve from new.
The 460s faults where not so expensive to put right and is still basic high quality.
I am glad I am not the only one who has come to see that quality is suffering in airguns. All of my older airguns are of better quality, the older HW guns reflect this as well as my Diana airguns. The answer is not in keeping price down, loosing quality as those of us who demand the quality we have come to expect do not accept this. If you look through the years fine quality cost money, however in those days it was worth saving up for one single item and then enjoying it and not worrying about the next gun or item to come along. You can see that you can buy some things for the same price or less than years ago but you are not getting anything at all. I do not mind paying for quality and will do so, however I am not tempted by low price and poor merchandise it just does not make sense to me.
I have just come to the point that I will not buy any NEW Diana's or HW's.Way too expensive for guns that are loosing quality and will require a tune anyway. Crosman has started to get aggressive in their production and I think they will only get better. The way I see it for a newbie, is too find a old quality gun that has been tuned or buy a cheaper gun and get a good tune.Pcp's are coming on strong, and I can see a change coming into the air gun world.You see devoted "Springer" guys going to the Marauder all day. The Chinese are getting better each day, while the old guard is losing quality. Interesting to see how things are playing out.
about the Crosman MoreRotter bolts, triggers, etc. breakin', leaks, shroud/barrel
out of alignment, loose and yet dudes are still sayin' it's a great deal, sweet
package, etc.
Masochism!
Tinkerism!
Looney Tunes!!!
Come on down to Uncle Billy's Used Cars we got a heck of a deal for you! LOL
If you treat every situation as a life and death matter, you'll die a lot of times. ~Dean
July 28 2009, 4:30 AM
Air, for a long time now, you have held a great animosity toward Crosman, especially the Discovery and now the Marauder. The fact is, the gun is loved by those guys that have them. Please do me a favor and tell us what "Good" qualities these guns have.Surely there must be a few.I bet if you someone gave you one, you might change your mind.
It really is not worth getting upset about. These guns have brought a lot of fun shooting to these folks.My first gun was a Crosman quest. I had a lot of fun with that gun. It was my first and maybe the most fun I have had since with a Air gun. My first car was a VW Bug! What a blast I had in that old worn out car. No gas gauge, had to push start it most of the time, but looking back it is the best time I ever had! It is all relative.
My Marauder is a great deal, really a sweet package.
The issues reported are part of the production start up. They suck for the owners but are being dealt with quickly and fairly by Crosman. For what it's worth, I haven't had any of them with my .22, yet. Neither have most of the other guys.
A great value from another manufacturer causes the others to re-examine their pricing and their features. That's how things get better, and/or cheaper. Even if you don't buy a new Crosman you can be happy they're helping to keep the price down on Euro imports.
I like my Dianas, too. Some are older (not the great classics) and some are newer. The only one I have been less than enthused about was the P5, which is just compromised in too many ways for me. Even it is still fun to shoot.
The "extras" of extreme craftsmanship probably are going away, at least for production guns, as with so many other finely machined products. You just can't afford to pay a Euro for the finishing touches that might have been common 30+ years ago, and still have a marketable gun.
The illuminati of AGs will always be here to fork over the big bucks for the classics, but the rest of the market is plinking cans and zapping vermin. The 34 Panther is high end for them, and they will enjoy them. Y'all are supposed to know the difference and not expect classic performance out of $250 rifles. I think that's fair.
we should 'die' to yesterday, to each past moment so we are 'born' anew, again
to the new, the now, the actual "living moment". Also these same men of wisdom
have said each moment is special, is very important, is a matter of life and
death.
I've owned a number of Crosman airguns and did like, did enjoy some of them.
Like I stated earlier - in my opinion more than a few airguns suck and I'm
talkin' Chinese to FX, Theoben, etc.
I had some fun jokin' about the Disco because I was "jump squaded" at the
Crosman Forum for pointing out some made up facts, some ridiculous claims
made by a few pro/popular airgun writers. So many AGers are soooo easily
Pied Pipered!
Air, I have figured it out, your frightened! Your being led into the dark side.Don't fight it Air, don't fight it! Release yourself! Listen to the words Ma rau der, Ma rau der, Ma rauder! Release yourself now. You cannot control it any longer.
had to tinker with 460 to get it right.now im on a maruader that has problems .i think ill go cheap next time maybe ill have better luck.barrel band problems on the mrod.broken sring and breech seal on 460.am i buying cheap guns? maybe i should try walmart,
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