Check out this video. The wind is 10mph and you can see the target moving at the end when he shows the pellets strike in slo-mo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THV48F-uJvo&feature=related

Look at how far 100yds is.. You will see a big white round (cement) boulder out there, but that's not the target.. still see how small it looks? It's like 5-6x the size of the target. Pay attention when he zooms in way past it to show the target down range. His target is at least the same size or bigger than what Parallax posted the other day, but it looks smaller out there and farther out. This is a (true) 100yd range.

Para: I still say test another range finder, or walk 100 good size steps to get an idea.. Your pics did not convince me of the range, sorry. The size of your target out there plus its relation to other objects did not indicate that was 100yds to me.

You can also see the 30fpe Air Arms 410Xtra-FAC recoil when it shoots, but it's pretty dang quiet with the stock shrouded barrel. I 've always wanted to get one but now I 'm convinced I 'll have to sell one of my Condors to fund this new AA410 project. The guy still got a decent group considering the 10mph wind. I have seen others that got 1.25" on a calm day with PCP's, but I would not hunt at that distance. Too risky to wound the critter and lose it.


----
Diana 350 .22 aka "Old Tim" (J.W. tuned)
Diana 36 .177 CDT tuned
Lemak custom AF Condor .25
Talon Tunes AF Condor .25
Airhog tuned AF Condor .22
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
Crosman 2300XT Custom .22
Other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177

Dont do that Harry.You'll make me jealous! he he.


I was shooting my Condor last week ,I was hitting 2 inch (not 4 inch)clay pigons at 115 yards!
The guy next to me jaw dropped, he he , he couldnt belive what he was seeing. I popped 4 in row ,He had to look through his bino's to see them .He asked me if I shot competiotion, lol,
then my pressure changed on me . I think the key is to get a jds regulator on it, for more consistant shots. Its on my list.

The s 410 is a real sweet heart if ya got the jing.

Harry:

No fps info, No cal. info neither

Yes to Air Arms 410 and it looks' like 100 yd range

WHY?? is it that a self contained air rifle cannot do this with a 8-10" ctc?? vs. a 6" with the PCP

off course it is easier to do with a PCP, but is it impossible to reach 100 yards with a self contained air rifle

easy for the shooter or difficult for the air rifle

warren

PS: nice music



and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

that's impressive shooting Holdover!

If you read all the comments on this video and his replies, he said his best group was 1.58" CTC on a calm day but he wasn't filming then. He said he averages 2". Another guy with a 410 ERB then responded that his friend that was a sniper, used to get 1-1.1" CTC at 100yds (with the same gun).

He said it was a .22 Warren and I believe he was using JSB 18gr. It's the same guy that has posted a few fox kills, and I believe he was using a Diana 54 .22 for those at 20-25yds.
Remember the Pyramyd video 2yrs ago in the summer of '07 (they had it on their home page), of 2 guys hitting a coffee can at 101yds with a 350 .22 on open sights? It was a video someone had submitted to P/A and it showed you a big guy sitting in a chair shooting off-hand and then you heard "ding". He did that 2-3x in a row. It might have been before you joined and they only kept that video up for a couple of months. Springers are easily capable of reaching out to 100yds. J. Woodcock shot about 200-300 pellets to break-in the 350 .22 I got, after he finished the tune. He said he was hitting soda cans at 80yds with JSB Jumbos on open sights.

The ethical question is, for me as a hunter, would you hunt at that range if you could average 2" CTC? I wouldn't. Not unless I can consistently do better than 1" groups, I will not hunt small game at those ranges.


----
Diana 350 .22 aka "Old Tim" (J.W. tuned)
Diana 36 .177 CDT tuned
Lemak custom AF Condor .25
Talon Tunes AF Condor .25
Airhog tuned AF Condor .22
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
Crosman 2300XT Custom .22
Other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177

I can't wait to get this rifle out on the range and see just how well it (I) can shoot. But in terms of hunting, I am with Harry. I will have to see how far back I can consistently group 1" to find my maximum hunting range. I'm hoping to be able to make clean ethical shots at 75yds right out of the box.

I ordered JSB exacts and heavies, along with some Kodiaks so we'll see which of them shoots best. I have my money on the 18gr. JSBs.

you Devin! hehehe. Most PCP's like Kodiaks and JSB heavies. The Kodiak is a very well made pellet with great aerodynamics. The only thing is they tend to go through an animal so fast, and retain their original shape (don't expand), that sometimes the critter doesn't know he 's been shot. The JSB's expand a little more being softer and are great hunting pellets. I took about 4 Groundhogs with the 350 using the JSB Jumbo 15.9 (all head shots) and they expired faster than all the other G-hogs I shot with a PCP and Kodiaks. The only other Groundhog that expired very fast was when I used a 28.4gr EunJin with the Condor even though they don't expand hardly at all either. They are even harder than the Kodiaks.

I say 2 out of those 3 pellets you selected, if not all 3, will be very accurate in your 410, but 1 will probably be slightly better than the others. I believe it will come down to the JSB 18gr or the Kodiak being the best.


----
Diana 350 .22 aka "Old Tim" (J.W. tuned)
Diana 36 .177 CDT tuned
Lemak custom AF Condor .25
Talon Tunes AF Condor .25
Airhog tuned AF Condor .22
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
Crosman 2300XT Custom .22
Other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177

Harry:

ethics and good manners will win over anything else and you have these qualities in SPADES either with a PCP or a spring air

it is not the right brand but the right shooter that uses it's brains with the right brand

warren




and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

said Warren!


----
Diana 350 .22 aka "Old Tim" (J.W. tuned)
Diana 36 .177 CDT tuned
Lemak custom AF Condor .25
Talon Tunes AF Condor .25
Airhog tuned AF Condor .22
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
Crosman 2300XT Custom .22
Other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177

Harry, I have to tell you. In my life I have run around a football track (440 yards) more times than you have ever shot pellets through a airgun. From the time I was about 9 years old. I trained, sweated, and actually urinated blood after many workouts around that f'ing track! I did this for years. I know every single step and crack at many local tracks.Many years of this.I know how the wind effects every turn of the track on a given day. I knew how much rain, and how much heat effects the track and my speed on any given workout.I ran hundreds of 880's,or 800 m, 440 or 400 meters, or some times many Miles or 1600 meters around the damn thing and many other damn circles. I trained raced, had good times and bad times.
I posted the other day about how Paralax was great at shooting 100 yards. The target looked right on the money to me. I later posted how I measured 100 yds. at a pine tree looking out my office window. Today, I took the time to get a very precise measurement of what I guessed and marked off to be 100 yards. Ok, the wheel I used is a $60.00 wheel bought from Home Depot that I have used in business at Honeywell for years to measure security cameras,Perimeters, fence lines etc. It may be off by a few feet. My guess at 100 yards was off by 1-3' given the hedgerow that I could not cross.Forget the camera lens, forget the videos, forget every thing you see. I believe the target that Parallax gave to you is correct. I believe that the modern day range finder is more than correct.
Paralax has presented a great post on shooting with a finely tuned, medium powered gun at 100 yards.I believe this to be true and show of what marksmanship is all about.You do not have to have a high powered gun to shoot well.
I hope you do not take offense at this post, it is only my opinion.

Regards
Dave@vabch

Dave:

don't start with Harry again like you did in the old times or he will play the "Casper" the ghost again and will not post here for another 12 months

if?? Harry say's it is not 100 yards then it is not to him

if?? you say it is close to 100 yards then you are right

if?? Para say's it's 100 yards then he is also right

what about this ONE!!!

I SAY, to me; it is 99.99999 yards or close to that distance

or maybe we should all go to his place and measure IT!!!!!

warren

PS: Para, will you accept us down to your place LOL

hehe, hey guys, actually you can come down anytime I got it set up again this morning because I'm going to get the Diana 54 out, clean the barrel real good and see what she can do officially at 100 yrds. I know it will do well, i've killed so many starlings past 100 yrds with that rifle that it's not even funny.

I wish I had a scale so I could weigh and sort my pellets. My 54 favors Crosman Premieres, but everyone that's ever weighed and sorted pellets have said that the Crosman's have the worst consistency and I notice when I've done long range groups in the past, I could shoot 10 shots and 4 of them would produce a beautiful 1/2" group in one spot, but then I would have 6 group a beautiful 1/2" group just slightly above or below it in a verticle string, definitely because of weight inconsistency!! The JSB Expresses that I use in my HW barrels have been reported to have amazing consistency straight out of the tin, so that definitely helps when I shoot groups with those pellets.

And Warren, I walked off the distance(my shoes are exactly 12" long) both to and from my target trap just now and it added up to 100 yrds. The $300.00 rangefinder(one of the best hunting laser rangefinders money can buy) said it was 101 yrds, again, for the 50th time. Remember, as I said, from my shooting spot on that concrete patio next to my barn to the wooden fence in the front of my property that you seen in that pic, near where my driveway starts is actually 138 yrds, and 120 yrds to the closest point to the far left, that you can't even see in the pic. To give you another angle to show you the distance, the last pic here shows just how far my wooden fence is behind the pellet trap. The trap itself is exactly 7 yrds away from that bush(which by the way is over 8' tall), then, you can see the amount of distance that is left to the fence, behind the pellet trap. The picture from my rifle to the trap can be very deceiving when taken straight on(the trap looks like it is right beside the bush, but it is 7 yrds behind it, and the fence looks like it's 10 yrds behind the trap, when in reality, it is over 3 times that distance behind it).










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Para:

I need to go up there and verify it with my own EYES but I need independent witnesses

this is what I propose to settle the issue;

I go to your range but will also bring with me RF, Dave, JC, Xristos, D, John, Harry, Tim, ME, Barry, Mike, Obama

warren

PS: this is part I, am still working on part II answer with more names to add, just have breakfast, lunch and dinner ready for 100 people

HEY: that is 1 yard per each warm body, OK!!!

and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

Para, I can't wait for the great Meet of Dianwerks shooters. Harry you bring the beer! (German). I'll bring oysters, and Warren you bring the steaks. Question is Horse back riding included in the amenities?

Regards
Dave@vabch

Absolutely guys Here's few more pics of where we would be hanging around, eating, drinking and shooting at: The revovations are coming along slowly, but surely. Maybe you guys could give me a hand with a few more projects while you are here?? LoL









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I stay on for about 6 months. I really need a great rest.

dave@vabch

Dave:

to stay in this place for 6 months you will be working 5 months just to mantain your stay there

warren

and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

LoL, no problem guys, there's plenty of work to do, eheh.

wow September 12 2009, 11:57 AM


that's impressive shooting Holdover!

The ethical question is, for me as a hunter, would you hunt at that range if you could average 2" CTC? I wouldn't. Not unless I can consistently do better than 1" groups, I will not hunt small game at those ranges.



Thanks Harry, no wind, and a few shots to dial it in.

I would like to have a better scope personaly,So I can dial in my range accurately before I shoot. I think it shifts a little. and definately a regulator so I can keep popping those pigons in a row.

You know,Its not all me , That rifle is stupid accurate. and like all you guys said before , get your teqnique down with the the springers first.and the pcp's wont even seem fair.

the regulator is the key with the condor, I think. if the shots dont deviate as the air is used , I think it would improve the consistancy of the shots .

You should have seen the look on that guy , lol, he just kept shakeing his head , he couldnt belive what he was witnessing, priceless.

I said , you cant even go home and tell your friends, they arnt going to belive you. lol

I did consistantly hit a one gallon plastic milk jug at 70 yards with open sights on with my 350 , which I thought was pretty good . but I think my 350 is going to need a little more work to get smaller groups at that range . John did a great job , but I think I need to change the spring , and get something to dampen the barrel vibration a bit. Im good out to about 30 yards but then I start loseing it. she starts to open up .

As far as hunting go's , No I wouldnt hunt at those ranges unless I was damm sure I could hit where I want. except maybe a rat. thats kind of a personel war between me and them, and the genevea convention isnt applicable. Theyre somewhere in that enemy non combatent range . professional curtosy does not apply .No quater is asked, and none given .But I have never waterboarded one......Yet.

But really, Im more of a target guy myself , I like the challange of the long range air rifle. and I know I can do even better still with my 350 mag.

The thing is , this crap gets expensive real quick ,

it's been fun. See you next year
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hehehehehe


----
Diana 350 .22 aka "Old Tim" (J.W. tuned)
Diana 36 .177 CDT tuned
Lemak custom AF Condor .25
Talon Tunes AF Condor .25
Airhog tuned AF Condor .22
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
Crosman 2300XT Custom .22
Other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177