Ok 3rd question-- According to all the experts in England a 12 ftlb gun
is all that is ever needed for FT/HFT and even well under 12 ftlb,
10.5 for example is enough for airgun shooting.Close range small game at
30-35 yards, and paper punching at most any range. Mild recoil being a
key to accuracy and pleasent cocking and shooting
Also, most of the latest thinking in AGW is a mild shooter without all
heavy grease is the way to go. Their "Tunes" seem to be a very different
sort then ours. Is this the reason Diana uses oil on the factory spring
rather than a heavy tar. Do the tars thicken at 30 degrees, or are they
still shootable in cold weather.
Magnumitis to the detriment of our springers accuracy???
My 46's in .177 sure are sweet and zip the pellet pretty good. Not so much zip with the 46's in .22. Re the winter thing. I don't see any problem with the lightly tarred vs oil in the 30's (F), but then I have gone to all lightly tared, so I no longer have the oiled ones to compare at the same time. The JM springs do offer more smoothness than just tarring the RWS springs.
12 ft lb guns to me are milder firing and easier to shoot accurately. If I need super dooper power, I'll go for a powder burner. For me, a nice smooth 12 ft lb gun will do anything I need an airgun to do. On the subject of tar, I use the tar to lubricate the spring, not dampen vibration. Having good, tight fitting guides and a spring that fits the piston well will take care of vibration. The tar is just to provide lubrication to the spring.
tar type lubes were first used around the late Sixties. Prior to that it was oil. Diana may still be using oil because of the "ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality that seems to go with some of their old soldiers (i.e. - the 34 types). Then again, it could be that their oiling of the spring is not to smooth out the shot cycle of the gun but to protect the metal. Everyone assumes that lubes are exclusively about firing behavior, but you are pulling a good bit of humidity into a springer with each cocking. Are the newer Diana springs actually dry or just seem to be that way in comparison to a lightly tarred spring? If Diana is concerned more about rust inhibiting, they may even have gone to a newer, less oily coating or one of the new molecular bonding formulas such as found in preservatives like Sheath, etc. I guess that, at the lower velocities, tarring (in and of itself) may not play as great a factor in smoothing the shot cycle. As mentioned, it may be more a case of better parts fit/harmonics.
if you goop it on it will reduce vibration but thats for someone who doesn't have the tools needed to fit the spring to the guide and top hat. Fitted guides and hats will give you a smooth shooter even without any tar. I am working on a reduced power B-28 (clone of RWS 350) I replaced the spring a bunch of times looking for the right velocity and finally got it down to under 12 ft/lbs. for the Uk market, no tar at all on the spring and with a fitted hat and guide there is no vibration, just a thump and a bit of fore and aft movement. A gooped up spring will slow down in cold weather as the tar gets thicker.
I'm understanding that in the US out West (more open course, not exactly lanes), they are into bigger/heavier FT targets at the longer distance (no bigger hole to shoot through though!) and 12 FPE's are registering hits, but not knocking them over. Are you seeing any of that?
of course my experience is limited to my home course at Prado and the Angeles range. our tragets fall with 12 fpe. there are clubs in northern California and Oregon, and Arizona. not sure what happens there.
I think that 12 fpe is about the best place for a .177 caliber springer. JMO. It just gives the best blend of smooth firing, low recoil, low hold sensitivity, best accuracy and the velocity at that energy is zipping along pretty quick, so the trajectory is very flat. Just the best place for .177 all around.
I dropped a big red fox squirrel yesterday with my HW50S from a lasered 48 yrds. It was a perfect heart/lung shot, right behind the shoulder, exactly where I aimed. The pellet passed through these organs completely and I found it buried in the hide on the other side, just about to exit. He dropped off the branch like a sack of potatoes. Perfect power and this was at a distance that the "magnumitis" crowd uses as a "gold standard" the magical "you can take game at 50 yrds!!!!" disclaimer. Just not necessary. Accuracy and the ability to consistently place that shot accurately over and over and over as well as required FPE AT THE TARGET on impact is king.
A little tar goes a long way. I'm guessing that, even with a well fitted set up, a bit of tar won't hurt anything and may dampen vibrations a skosh more. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that proper tarring is a substitute for custom fitting. More like complimentary, as there are quite a few highly rated tuners who do both. Anyway, for us mechanically challenged who must make do with stock or off the shelf parts, it does help.
On the soft tuned B28, I've seen posts (here, I think) on ditto for the 350. While I like the looks of those guns, doesn't that make for a rather long rifle? Maybe not in carbine form, but full-sized?
One reason the old guns (and I do mean relatively old springers) are enjoyable to shoot is that they are under 12 FPE. Many a squirrel has fallen to a Diana 27.
Target shooting seems to heading to sub 12ftlb as standard internationally , typically rifles run at 11.2
Here in the UK your rifle must be under 12 with any pellet
Diana's make the same rifle for the UK.US/Europe
They vary the power with the spring typically. However, they are generally capable of much more than UK limit with biggish pistons, biggish transfer ports etc etc. HW's are in essence 'most efficient' at UK power, Diana's probably suit say Poland, which is around 16 ftlb limit
This doesn't mean Diana's cant run at lower power, but it's tricky to get them shooting nicely.
In the US you don't have to worry, you just worry about other factors, it doesn't matter what power the rifle ends up at.
Power is not the 'aim' consistency is of a tune up of course.
Airgun hunting is legal in the UK, and no one has a problem with sub 12ftlb at 35 yards for rabbits/squirrels HEADSHOT.
Anything more than 40 yards is really for 22 rimfire, though you can shoot fac air, which means anything over 12ftlb, and is treated here as a firearm.
Diana's lube is rubbish, they do it for cheapness, spraying the whole rifle with oil, usually missing the internals alltogether.
A relube for a new Diana is essential really.
The tars can be temperature unstable, so I'm informed, but moly type grease/tar is better than thin oil.
Don't think makers spend more money than they have to, even at their own product detriment.
We have some really really really good air rifle experts here in the UK, as it's easy for most people here to shoot airguns, not so easy with firearms.
The top guys here are V Mach Custom rifles. The main guy is the son of one of the people who started the famous Venom Arms Company, the original air rifle tuning firm when magnum springers first arrived, like the Original 35 Super, Model 45, HW35 then the HW80 (Beeman R1) etc etc
They MAKE really really really really good springs seals and lubes, and are best contacted by e mail
www.air-rifle-tuning.com
Look at all the posts on the various forums, all the problems well most anyway. Are with the higher powered stuff, for a fun shooter stick to around 8 to 900 fps in .177 and 700 in .22.
Which is why folks pay beacoup bucks for a nice FWB124
September 25 2009, 7:37 AM
Nice out of the box, accurate and good looking. Hard to ask for more. And price, alone, is not why the R9 is such a popular gun (as compared to the hotter numbers). Less is more.
