spiral and flight path comes to mind but there is more:

what about barrel twists (16 turns to 1) and caliber, or type (doomed or flat head) maybe grain in pellet (10 gr. or maybe 18 gr.) makes the flying pellet miss or hit and then there is distance???

interesting!!

at 10 yards you get what CTC ?? at 20 ?? at 30 and at 40 maybe at 60, just because it is accurate at 20 it does not make it accurate at 40 yards

to each it's own

does the scope help you at at 20 or 40 yards?? or is it the iron sights

does the air rifle brand really makes a difference???

warren

PS: you still shoot the same brand of pellet but with a different air rifle OR a different brand of pellet with the same air rifle

and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

My experience with air rifles is relatively limited, but I'll offer my opinion.

Yesterday I shot almost 300 pellets through my new 34. I'm using the open sights that it came with and trying to break in the rifle, per most peoples advice, and trying to re-learn how to shoot. Considering the amount of play in the rear sight block and the range that I am shooting at, not to mention the pellet selection, I sincerely believe that there is going to be a range where I will probably shoot more precisely with open sights than with a scope. To be honest, and I can see the obvious downfalls, I actually prefer the challenge of the open sights. Yes, I do shoot quite a bit, and yes, I do miss quite frequently. I guess I am taking the purist road, for a while, and I'm going to challenge myself, albeit unnecessarily, with open sights.

The pellet selection for me hasn't reached the premium, proven pellets yet, so I'm ignorant as to the potential of the rifle. Alongside a broken in, scoped Gamo springer, in a smaller caliber, the difference is to great to compare. I was shooting for a smaller target within the main target with the Gamo. The real challenge was to just hit the target anywhere with the open sights on the Diana. I'm also learning how to adjust my aim point, and keep my hard won sight adjustments, due to the frequent switching of pellet sizes, shapes, and brands.

I really need (want) a scope for my 34.

Thanks for the early morning forum action Warren.

when you reach that level you want to go to the next one and master it also BUT

it ain't that easy

scoped air rifles are tricky, you have the rifle, mount and scope PLUS the distance to consider

stay with your EYES, they do NOT lie and do not relay on the glass (scope)

a scope does help but think again how the old really OLD sharp shooters did it in the 1700 years, they only had their eyes and not the scope to help them

IE; Kentucky windage, holdover, extra powder (for 100 yards shoot) VS. 50 yards


warren

PS: not anti-scope but close to it, keep the iron sights close to you and master them, they are the 1st line of defense

and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

I keep my old vintage R7 with open sights only, most of the time, so I can go back and practice with open sights to re-sharpen up. I'll periodically grab that rifle and set up tiny targets at various distances from 15 to 40 yrds, AFTER i've shot a few 10m groups to warm up, get my eyes back on focus and get the feel again with them, etc...

Then i'll move on out to the targets and start knocken em' down.

I do this to get myself "back in fine tune" and keep that strong shooters instinct flowing inside.

I'll do this even after i've been shooting for days and days straight with my more powerful, higher velocity, SCOPED guns. I just find that it's easy to develop bad habits and loose some of the shooters instinct inside and a few good practice sessions with open sights will tighten your shooting skills right back up inside. Then, when I pick up the higher velocity scoped rifles, I feel I have that laser beam precision on ultra long range shots again.

Another thing that sharpens the skills TREMENDOUSLY is doing some ultra long range target shooting(scoped or unscoped, your preference) and then coming back down in range.

After I was doing all the 100 yrd group testing with my various rifles, I started shooting on 50 yrds afterward and it felt so incredibly easy. It felt like a 25yrd target previously felt!

These are what you need to balance in order to stabilize a projectile, be it a pellet or cannon shell. Then there is also the speed. Fast moving projectiles generally call for a faster ROT. Ditto for longer projectiles, since you have to spin up a longer mass to stabilize it. Domed and pointed pellets might have a longer axis than wadcutters. Of course, it may be too slight to affect anything.

The Greenhill Formula is what is used to determine ROT for a particular combination. It's a bit tricky to use, though, since the constant in the formula must be varied to take into account projectile speed. (For example, hot rock varmint rounds have to increase the value while comparatively slow muzzle loaders knock a bit off.)

As to what is accurate at short range as well as long depends upon the amount of destabilization the pellet experiences at the longer range. I think this is why 10M target rifles don't do terribly well at, say, fifty yards when compared to a sporter that is less accurate at 10M.

The wrong tool for the right job, as we used to say in the Navy.

Depends. We recently shot our Idaho State FT match. One fellow with a new Marauder and peep sights did very well. He also shot a Sporting High Power match with it and scored 300/320 - did a perfect 80/80 on one prone cycle - all at 50 yards.

My opinion is that familiarity with the rifle, ammunition, and conditions means more than maker of rifle, scope, or ammunition selection. I have a range on my ranch where I can hold 5-6 feet into the wind, when needed, and hit light bulbs at close to 300 yards with my .17 HMR. It's an inexpensive rifle, inexpensive scope, and the only ammunition selection is 20 grain. I have a connection with the rifle and glass so I can predict, usually with great certainty, where the round will hit. I can leave the rifle at 275 yard zero and still hit 2 inch targets at one hundred yards. Am I a world class shooter? No, I just have the experience.

But with my springer air rifles it's a totally different game. Humility hits me hard when I shoot my Diana or my Gamo. I'm going to back out of this thread and let the real air gunners debate this.