Initial testing of the new Proto type kits from Vortek have shown OUTSTANDING results. The kits are going to be released soon. They are made to drop in with all components ready no lubing needed. If your seal is good then its a done deal.
This kit is the single smoothest kit or 34 I have ever shot. Its doing 915 to 920 with 8.4 yes 8.4. I am amazed at its dead blow firing cycle. How many times have you actually tracked a pellet doing 900+ fps as the gun has NO side torque or upward recoil. This kit takes care of the Hysteresis of spring twist and gun torque. Its all new and will be available soon.
The .22 is amazing as its as dead as it gets and has much better velocity than any other 34 kit tested by me or others for that matter. I know of only a few .22 34 that go over 700 let alone mid 700 with 14.3 CP.
Folks this is the real deal for our Dianas. Vortek was commissioned and steped up to the plate. Many of you know I have dabbled in my own tuning adventure. These will make you just say WOW!
The 350 kit is being tested now. Initial results are great with it too. 25 ft lbs all day long. For the record mine is at 20 ft lbs and I cant put it down. Its that fun. Its like a kids gun with power to drop squirrels like fly's !
you HAVE NOT BS your way in this forum you have proven what you say and your record is CLEAN with me
NOW to the nitty gritty, meaning PRICE, $$$$, MULLA
how much is the question???
because I am not going to spend $200.00 to add 40 fps to a M34, not that I have not spent $400.00 to shoot 680 fps in a M34 but that is a different story
for $200.00 I can get a Cometa 400 and the Norica is coming with the "Quick" model, in .22 cal they are over 700 fps with 14.3 gr. pellets and accurate for $250.00
not tipping your boat but asking questions that other members need to know before they invest $$$ in this Idea!!
I trust your judgement but understand not everyone can invest that amount of $$ in a M34, when it shoots 680 fps out of the box in .22 cal
Warren its the shot cycle and accuracy from the dead shot feel. I do not foresee it being a $200 kit. Its gonna happen , the details are being finalized as we speak. Trust me Warren this is IT! In .22 its so dead its like did I just shoot that ?
Ill give out details like price and availability ASAP.
No advertisement! Vortek Products has been in the air gun industry for over 20 years. They are a Mi based company so I benefit greatly form the years of experience and knowledge Tom Gore has.
I am blessed to test these products and give honest real world results. Those who know me will know, GOOD or BAD Ill tell ya. These my friends are GOOD!
I have re fallen in love with a girl named Diana ~~~~~~~~~~
Saw it on the Yellow(?) a short while ago, with pictures. If this turns out to be as good as advertised, I can see a few tuners muttering under their breath. This contains a fitted sleeve for the spring, etc, correct? Almost a DIY tune in a box. Plus, Vortex ain't exactly an unknown.
You know my whole story about the Diana 34 that shot around the corner right? Well you also know that after my BFH tune it is quite the shooter. I took my 34 to the last FT shoot because Jim Stanis of Precision Airguns was going to be there. He originally sold the rifle to the guy I bought it from. Anyway, long story short Tom Gore brought his Vortek 34 to the shoot and I got to personally test it out.
Chris is not exaggerating. It really is a different rifle. Very contolled recoil with no side to side or twisting. Straight back thunk. I have springers tuned by Gene and MM. Both are nicely contained and controlled recoil. Love those rifles. But the Vortek did surprise me. I've got to take Tom up on his offer to get one of his rifles!
So Tom's shop is about 30 minutes from my house. I've got to do this! Maybe I'll see if he has one for the 48 I just bought from Tim Meredith! Timmy says it is a sweet shooter so maybe I'll leave it alone and opt for a 34 Panther in .22! Jeez where did I put Tom's card...
Hunting season getting ready to open in WV. Bought a refurb .22 caliber Panther specifically for hunting squirrels. Sounds like this kit would be perfect for my purposes.
less cocking effort and according to a few descriptions has a shot cycle maybe
superior to the best pro tuners can deliver at that power level.
Just about every post, report I've read/heard on various model gas-ram factory
airguns and pro and DIY gas-ram swaps power levels were slightly less, about
the same to slightly more and cocking effort is a bit and noticably more compared
to the metal coil spring/piston. Most say the gas-ram is a quicker, smoother and
more linear shot cycle over the untuned metal coil 'springer'. Some say shot cycle
is near a top pro tuned metal coil 'springer' and others say slightly better.
I'm pondering the more power with less cocking effort - that claim from a DIY
drop-in kit has me wondering how it is done. I'm almost sure all 34s won't achieve
the same power increase - the top pro tuners, the factory can't do that. Less cocking
effort and more power - man that's got me puzzled.
Just a drop-in kit - not bored, stroked, transfer port mods, etc. It's simply a gas
or air spring/piston that is easier to compress/cock than the factory metal coil
spring yet delivers more than a couple FPE over factory/stock.
Guess as fellas start buying and installing we'll all read what they say - hopefully
some will own a chrony. Amazing how many guys can afford to buy expensive airguns yet
don't have a chrony.
I don't think Chris said it was a gas ram. I think it's a spring kit. I do own a chrony and right now, my Panther shoots 14.3 gr. CP's at 680 fps. If I can get the same or a little more velocity, that would be great. But what I'm mostly interested in is smoothness and accuracy.
Chris has never BS'ed me or any others that I know off, I am to old to fall for NEW or OLD tricks and Chris and you are 100% solid in my book
RF:
the envelope of the M34 can be pushed up to 720 FPS with a 14.3 gr. pellet, the sweep volume and the spring the spring has a WHOLE lot to say about the FPS, you might get a GOLDEN M34 that can reach 725 fps but then WHAT do you improve since it is GOLDEN by it's production
Keith:
while this "IDEA" is floting along, the Cometa does 720 fps out of the box without a top hat or a rear guide, figure WHY???? and the M34 is still shooting 680 FPS and you have to work it to get 700-710-720 fps
Warren: say;s
speed is 1/3, accuracy is 2/3
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
Warren: say;s
"speed is 1/3, accuracy is 2/3"
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
Whoa Warren, you are starting to talk like a financial advisor (put x% in stocks and y% in bonds; of the stocks, but z % in domestinc large cap growth,.....)! Let me see if I can run the math:
Speed is 1/3 of the gun or 10% of the total (assuming that the shooter does not have a speed component). Meaning that the accuracy component of the gun is 20% of the total. I'm thinking that shooter only has an accuracy component in this equation, so for accuracy, The gun is 20/90 and the shooter is 70/90, or accuracy is 22.22% the gun and 77.78% the shooter. Right? :>)
It isn't a gas ram as far as I know. Shooting one tells me it isn't. It didn't have the ultra sharp recoil of a ram which by the way is a scope killer. It definitely was like a very well tuned springer recoil. Tom didn't tell me the exact engineering behind it but I wasn't asking either. I'm going to guess it has more to do with a very well engineered spring and other components. Not sure if he is employing some type of twist compensating bearings or a guided rail piston to reduce twist and recoil? I have no idea other than it works. Now don't think it is like a PCP but I could sure tell the difference side by side with my 34.
I asked him if it would work with a B25 clone and he said yes. I was seriously thinking of getting a refurb Ruger or something for $90 and install this system. I didn't talk price with him but I would guess it isn't much more, if at all, than a pro tuner package. Considering a full out tune with Maccari spring and new seal would run you $150, the Vortek can't really be more. I mean it is worth more but if it were a lot more than people might stick to a tune. My guess is that since Vortek can "mass produce" these drop in packages it would be way less than a pro tune in which you are really paying for time and knowledge.
I think this is the most attractive part of what Tom is doing. It is science and manufacturing to get better than pro tuner results. Meaning you get consistent results cheap.
Time will tell exactly how well this works out in the real world...
"I'm going to guess it has more to do with a very well engineered spring and other components."
so it has a spring and a spring air rifle benefit's with a top hat and rear guide, OK!!
"I was seriously thinking of getting a refurb Ruger or something for $90 and install this system. I didn't talk price with him but I would guess it isn't much more, if at all, than a pro tuner package. Considering a full out tune with Maccari spring and new seal would run you $150, the Vortek can't really be more."
if you did not talk to Tom about the price then you say "the $150.00 should not be really more" is this your estimation?? price range and it offers the same FPS but with a smooth firing cycle??
a 34 shooting 680 fps in .22 cal. does not need a $150.00 kit to shoot 680 fps since it's a wash
a pro tuner does not have a magical "drop in kit" for your air rifle and that would be to easy, you could do it yourself, it takes more than that
you do NOT spend $100.00 to improve a $200.00 air rifle but some people do it!!
some even spend $200.00 to improve a QB78 that cost's $90.00 but it is worth it for THEM
IMHO and read again, IMHO that Vortek kit has to improve the RWS M34 by 10% to be worth the extra $$$, 680 fps to 748 fps and also be a smooth shooter but you and I know that is not possible with a M34 shooting 748 fps in .22 cal.
720-740 FPS is the MAX in the M34 with an acceptable firing cycle, tuned by a pro tuner and the cost is not $200.00, you can do it yourself for less $$ and still get 720 fps
warren
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
2/3 is 66% of the pie, which by the way is 100% of the equation
it add's up to 100%
IF you can master the speed in your air rifle to 50%, why do you have a flyer???
the air rifle IS capable of 66% of accuracy but you are capable of, 33% and then you ruin it and brings it to 0%, was that the air rifle or the shooter???
the shooter is capable of ,60% but the air rifle is capable of 10% you extract 10 out of 60= 6.0 of the air rifle
the shooter is capable of 75% with a 50% air rifle, 75 / 50 = 1,5%
is it the air rifle?? or the shooter??
remember the lower #'s WIN
warren
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
I'm stayin' near shore where I can (hopefully) wade home. The kit CAP described, if it is anything like the Vortek kit he tested on the Yellow (and I know this is more complicated), is a drop-in that does pretty much what tuners do. Maybe something to reduced twist, some sort of sleeve to prevent cant, etc, all to produce a more efficient, smoother shot cycle. Will it increase fps over the theoretical plant limit for a stock 34? I guess not. But that is not the entire aim. It is to give you a smoother shooting gun with a bit more punch via increased efficiency.
Now, let's all wait and see what CAP reports. This could turn out to be a major break through.
Sorry Warren, calculations are perfect. My understanding, as always can be called to question, but what I think you said is that the gun is 1/3 speed and 2/3 accuracy. Combine that with the 30% gun and 70% shooter that is on your every post, I get what I posted (as a hint 1/3 of 30% is 10%).
Anyhow, I was hoping I had stalled long enough to see Chris's big news released......
So is there anyone we can call to find out about other guns
October 11 2009, 5:29 AM
That are planned for these setups? Andy, do they have a phone at the Vortek shop?
460/300R/46/54/45 etc.??
Also any more info on the Gas Rams... If they are planning on a Feb release there must be some prototypes... I'd fast forward to Gas Rams in a heartbeat if they are like the R1 double sealed units and adjustable.
I've got one of the generic kits ordered from PA that should be here next week. Has anyone got any numbers from that kit on a particular model??
Re: So is there anyone we can call to find out about other guns
October 11 2009, 8:02 AM
The universal kits will be at stock velocity's in most guns. The 48 and 52 may be a tad off. The new kist are as said gun specific. Right now gas ram for the 34 or 350 is not being pursued at the moment.
Im sure the complete RWS line will be covered soon. At least the core guns.
You have any eta or timeline on this? I want to tune my 34 and am getting ready to ump some money on it, sure would be nice to spend it on something cutting edge.
ARe we talking a few weeks, a few months or a year?I would like one too if the price is right. Been thinking about some type of tune for my 34 but this sounds like something I could put in myself.
Came across these in a year old PA blog and thought for a minute they are what you are testing. Looks like you get a front guide and long rear guide that encloses the base of the spring to avoid canting. (Two pieces for $90??) Supposedly reduces twang w/o an extensive tune. How much more complex is your kit?
![[linked image]](http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e20/RedFeather2/chickengunfightgifpo1.gif)