My local club has an indoor ten meter range. According to today's newsletter, they are going to hold an adult target rifle shoot once a week. Thought I might give it a try. Now, the problem is, I don't really have any ten meter type rifles except for two - A Norica 80G which is a break barrel (about like an R7) with a very rudimentary rear peep sight and fairish trigger, and a Diana 75 that is missing the complete front sight setup and rear, plus probably needs a rebuild since it appears to have the original (pinkish) seals. The first may be a bit too basic to compete with (like I'm a great shooter, yeah) and the latter is something to have restored down the road apiece.

I do have a 953 which was recently picked up and has the Pilkington trigger modification, but it does not have target sights. Had an 853 for a bit and was disappointed in the gun, particularly the sights. All that said, I might have the opportunity to pick up a fairly new, little used 753. I know the stock gun will need the trigger mod, but is it that much better than the 853? Looks like the sights are nicer. Is this about the bottom line for getting into even an informal style competition? Would it be that much better than the 953? (Adding in the cost of the sights, I think I'm better off getting the 753.) Decisions, decisions. At any rate, any new acquisition necessitates me selling a few of my current horde, if only to make room.

And, please, no 34's. I don't want to destroy the club's facilities, LOL!

These funky little guns can shoot. I had a later model 61 and loved it, especially the trigger. They come with a good set of open sights including a front hood. The clip fed side lever repeating mechanism works well one you get the hang of it. It makes for a great campfire plinker as well as 10m shooter. The single shot version also works well and may be more desirable for 10m work.
The Tau 200 I purchased filled the 10m void so off mine went.
Recently a pristine Winchester marked Diana 65 also crept in the stable.

If it were me I'd try the Norica. That gun peaks my interest as of late, can you say more about it?


Brian

Honestly, I'm a little surprised that you don't own one. Based on your knowledge and how you refer to your collection, I assumed you had a rifle to fill every niche. It will be very interesting to see what you choose.

Or is this an excuse to buy another air rifle?

I would use that if it were complete. Did pick up a sight set but it turned out to be the wrong one and then I found out I needed the front sight base and parts. Although the rear was a Diana T01, it simply would not slip on, so I sold that.

The Norica 80G is a basic, entry-level gun. It has a two-stage trigger that isn't too bad and a funky plastic rear sight that is, essentially, a large blade with a hole in it, adjustable for elevation, only. It could do with a Williams target sight. I could use that gun, but it is still a bit twangy and I have to be careful of too much vibration through the cheek (couple of detached retinas here). The 753 is, of course, recoil-less. Maybe I ought to lube tune the Norica. Just that I came across a slightly used 753 for $200 and it's kind of burning my back pocket.

Norica 80G:

and buy one good FWB 300s. good shooter fora round $450-$500.00. you will never regret it. they are fne guns and very accurate. good sight sets.

you have there. And it seems you have found your 10m shooter too.
Is that Norica one of the NIB ones that I saw on one of the auction sites a while back?
It looks really nice in the pictures. I am going to have to keep my eyes peeled for one.

Brian

PS I don't think yo are interested but just in case Pyramyd is showing the IZH 60 due in stock at the end of the month. The 60 is hard to find and sold out quick two years ago when they were availible. I pre ordered on for under $100 shipped.

He had two listed, but I am not sure he ever sold the other one. His price was $168, shipped, which is about what they listed for in the 1980's. Guess I should get it up and running.

Red,
Do your self a favor and get your self FWB300/300S or a Walther 55 or have your Diana 75 restored.I'v been shooting indoor 10 M at my club the last couple of years.Believe me it starts out very easy you could use a 34 or CR Quest and still do good enough the first couple of rounds.But as you progress it gets tuffer and tuffer thats when your going to need a good old match rifle.
I started with my FWB300S and still shoot it every monday night at our winter 10m indoor matches.Remember your looking at a .40 thousands bulls-eye and maybe a 7mm 9 ring.Its so nice to have a rifle that will put them in the bull every time week after week,but I am not that capable.But I am getting better with practice.Its not to pellet fussy but it does have its favorite pellet (RWS Match R10).
If ya start with junk or something less than an old match gun you will get discouraged real fast and quit.I'v seen many struggle with there Daisy's and finally stop shooting.And the comments are always the same right before they leave,"I should-a have got one of those Old Match FWB's or a Walther to start with I just wasted $300+ on this friggin Daisy"
Good luck to ya Red Feather what ever you decide about the gun you use,I know you will love it,,,its hard ,challenging,,but a blast to do and the people are great.
Just like any other sport some nights you can't miss,but watch out the next week,you may not be able to hit a pellet trap with a bowling ball.

Best Regards
BBGun Bob

My FWB300S with Match Sights
[IMG][/IMG]

Another shot of it with Bug Buster
[IMG][/IMG]

Air Guns Create Questions????
Together we can write the answers!!

Right now it holds down the safe, wearing a small variable scope. Let's see, the rebuild will be about $150 - $200, but the sight set is the killer. Now I know why it went so cheap at the gun shop where I bought it. Almost have to buy a club gun just to get the sights/parts. Maybe I could fabricate a front mount (have a really nice globe w/inserts) and then find a suitable rear sight? Something to work on.

Meanwhile, the 80G or even the 953 might get me started. If I can see that tiny dot, which is really the biggest hurdle.

"Your equipment or ours" So, I don't need to run out and buy a gun for this right away. (Well, it WOULD be a reason to BUY ANOTHER GUN....) Some of these guys are serious, too, competing down in Georgia and placing pretty well. Plus it also says Adults VS the Kids, and these kids CAN shoot! We had one young lady who started out (about eleven or twelve) on the air rifle range, having never shot before. Graduated to small bore. A couple years into that, she broke two national records and tied a third in ONE MATCH at the NRA national headquarters. Now in college (Nebraska?) on a shooting scholarship and member of the US Junior Olympic team. Who knows by 2012?

RF:

you will be 3 years older not 3 years younger

the minus is not the same as the plus

warren

and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

....I was talking about the young lady. And it's simply untrue that you can't make time flow backwards. My wife continually tells me I'm more childish every day.

Red -

Could you use a 124 or to much power ?? I find these things scary
accurate for a sporter and the open sight are decent enough for a
non Olympic event LOL !! Or buy some cheap target sights for it.
Just a thought.

Paul.


Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

That's a good shooter with a nice trigger. Then there's a 24 I recently picked up. All about the same as the Norica, though.

Well, in my opinion the Norica just doesn't cut it for 10 m. Neither does the IJ60/61.

The Diana 75 would be a good one, if you just had the sights. An FWB 300/S, as has been suggested, would also be a good choice (though I personally prefer the 75).

After these, the next level would, of course, be an SSP, such as one from the FWB 600-series, an Anschütz 2001/2002, Walther LG90 and so on; and as this is the Dianawerk Collective, maybe even a Diana 100, if you can locate one (and are prepared to part with a chunk of cash).

I have no idea how the 753 et al fare in this comparison. I also have no idea whether the words "inexpensive" and "German 10m SSP rifle" can be fitted into the same sentence at your locality without distorting the whole fabric of reality.

Cheers,

-Topi

I have never been to a organized 10 meter pellet gun shoot. But if was available I would have no problem taking my Baikal model 60 with me. And for around $100 it gets no better.

Dave@vabch

Some will be dyed in the wool purists with their $3000 airguns, for sure. Others might be of the "shoot what you bring" variety. I'm hoping it is like out Bull Run Muzzle Loaders' monthly black powder shoots. Come one, come all and anything safe is fine and we'll even loan you a gun if you don't have one.

I expect my level of shooting even may exceed the mechanical limits of the lowly Norica. Inexpensive certainly rules of the SSP's mentioned, except for the Daisy. Of course, the 753 barely makes the cut, being aimed primarily towards youth groups, although some guys do compete at local levels with them.

Well, I decided to try my 953 with a Williams (?) slip-on peep sight which was sitting on my old 880. It wouldn't fit without some filing, so I just tried the 953 with the open sights. Now, this gun has the same power plant as the 753 I'm considering, so I felt it would be good to give it a short test. (Haven't had it long enough to shoot it.) This 953 has the Pilkington mod and a pretty good trigger, too. Five rounds at about twenty feet were a bit vertically strung and about quarter sized. Time was running short, so I decided to put it back in the safe and happened to pick up an old Milbro Model 75 (like a Diana tin plate with brass liner). What the heck, let's see what five from this old dog will do? Worse trigger and coarse open sights. Well under a quarter and two almost in the same hole. Maybe I ought to use THAT gun??? Besides, it was easier to cock, too, which brings up the rest of this post. I've tried an 853 - wasn't impressed. The 953 is ok for plinking but I can't see forty rounds out of something like that. Pumping/loading isn't my style, I guess. Break barrels and side cockers seem preferable to that long under stroke with the "snap" at the end. Bottom line, I'll pass on the 753, even at a good price.

Now, why the &(*&(%&# title??? Decided to put up the receiver sight and replace it on the 880 later. The sight is held on by a minuscule set screw in the top strap and I had some keys in my off hand. Oh, I better put these down so I don't drop that teenie weenie screw. You guessed it - laid down the keys and off the bench goes the screw, down to the cement floor. Hands and knees, butts and elbows, flashlight in hand. The screw is right where I know it to be - right next to one of the screws for my Blue Streak peep sight which fell onto that floor about six months ago. How, of Lord, do they manage to take off like that?

I might take up painting.

Or you might try one of those magnets on a stick. They sure beat wearing your knees out and I've found they actually work at finding little metal parts.
Chris

Or I could clean up that messy basement!

You mean like 33 feet? My M34 stacks pellets at that range. I don't understand why people want to say a base price springer can't shoot accurately. All I have done is clean it tighten the screws and add a scope.

Look at a Diana M34P or M34 Compact and see what you can hit at 10 meters. Maybe I am wrong but it works for me.

Too much power. It would, in all likelihood, destroy the target traps at the range. The center of the 10M target is only a couple of millimeters. Top guns can shoot one hole and not so ragged. Forty shots breaking a 34 can be fatiguing. And you have to use metallic sights. While a jeep is great in the field it isn't so competitive on the oval track. Not knocking the 34 but it is a hunting rifle, not target.

to the M34

RIGHT!!!!

warren

and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

n IZH 61 followed me home from the airgun store last week. These things will shoot! Absolutely incredible how accurate this gun is for such little money. At 10 meters, it easily out-shoots other guns many times it's price range

http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/derricks-izh-61-sight-upgrade.html

dave@vabch

I have one of each,I prefer the Walther LGV & Diana 66 because they both are Break Barrels.It took me 28 years to get both of these Babies,but they shoot so Smooth.The RWS 75 is also a Great Match Rifle with more weight but like it better than my FWB 300 S Rifle which is why I sold the FWB Rifle after 3 months plus it was so Pellet picky,had to puch & seat every pellet into Breech,was a very tight fit and I pain to Load.My RWs 75 TO 1 will shoot any pellet no Seating or pushing in pellet. Same goes for the Walther & Diana 66 Match Rifles. You must shoot these Rifles if you ever get the chance or just buy them All !

Hey Red -

I just picked up a FWB 110 Oh wait, you said inexpensive. Never mind !!

Paul.

Will do the job..

Enjoy your 110.

It was the Air Rifle find of a life time for me !!

Paul.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

I asked about inexpensive rifles. I got very little in way of that. Realize that people have a passion for what they like and sometimes feel compelled to convince/sway others to their way of thinking. Just that this has worn a bit thin, even for me.

Have something else going on right now and something just sort of hit me the wrong way. Thanks to those who answered my question.

RF:

I know Paul and he is a RABID air gunner, if he could buy the PCP Lewis and Clark used he would buy it in a heart beat and sell it in a New York minute for peanuts

have bought 2 air rifles from him for a SONG, a Webley and the M24 and CHEAP

warren

PS: not advice but my opinion

Thanks for helping me find perspective.

Now everyone is going to be looking for a deal LOL !!!!

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

Hi Red Feather, I'm basically with Topi and BB gun Bob here. I usta compete
in 10 meter air rifle too many years ago. I like the idea that your club
will lend you some kind of match rifle to shoot with. I'd do that and then
wait and see how sophisticated you want to get.
Here's my take; yes, your RWS/Diana model 75 would be a wonderful club
shooter, if you had the match sights and it was shooting an 8 grain pellet
at 580-620fps. That is the accuracy fps range for 10 meter match rifles.
I personally prefer the model 75 over the model 300, because the triggers
are close enough to equal(maybe 75 is insignificantly better), the 75 is
recoilless, more so than the 300. and the 75 fits me better. The issue of
fit is a very significant factor in 10 meter shooting.

However the AR I primarily competed with after shooting borrowed 75s and 300s
for a couple of months, was an SSP Diana model 100. I tried a friend's fwb 601,
and I loved it. It was a considerable step up on the older recoiless spring
guns. I then tried a Diana model 100, and it fit me much better than the model
601. So I bought the model 100. This choice was just a matter of ergonomics.
Both AG's are equally capable, they both make sighting and shooting tens far
easier than the lesser evolved match rifles.
You may personnaly find that you prefer the CA or CO2 match AR's. I have a
friend that swears by the FWB model C62(a CO2 match AR). good luck with your
choice or choices.

Tony G

Hi again Red Feather, buy an IZH-60; That's an order!

I've got a IZH-61, the 60 is better for what you seem to
want.

Tony G

That would be a bit cheaper than a Diana 100 or the latest Anschutz.

Think I'll dig around in the pile I currently have.

Red, I can't say enough about the model 60 Little Black Russian. They now have one on PA for $99.00. This is a gun you will shoot a lot! As you know, the 61 with the clip is fairly easy to get, but the 60 single shot is a rare find. They now have them at PA. You will be surprised at the accuracy, the great adjustable trigger which is fantastic. The model 61 is a great gun, but the 60 single shot is more powerful and much more accurate. You very rarely see them for sell. I plan to get another one, maybe as a gift.

One write up by TG:Olympic accuracy for under $100?
This little sidelever spring is nearly as accurate as a $2,000 Olympic target rifle. Unfortunately, the 61 is also dog-ugly and could turn you off if looks are important. Several years ago I read an article about a guy who bought a 61 for under a hundred bucks and dolled it up with Olympic rifle sights and a full-featured target-style laminated stock! Those things set him back more than $500, or so the story went. The thing is, the gun was so darned accurate that it was worth it!
I love this one:



Some day I hope to have the model 62 match rifle




http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/IZH_60/75

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/03/gift-from-bb-izh-61-air-rifle.html

Dave@vabch

Go ahead and sneer....they can beat the FWB's and others in the right hands, one took Gold at the Iowa games and another did well at the nationals....

Mike:

the AR2078A Chinese CO2 air rifle with a mod to the trigger is a FANTASTIC contender

when I first saw the housing in that trigger all I could think was "it is a HUGE trigger" and easy to modify but like you said "in the right hands'" and LOOK here:

http://www.archerairguns.com/AR2078A-Chinese-Air-Rifle-p/ar2078a.htm

for $164.99 plus shipping

the IZH 60 is next:

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/IZH_60/75

for $99.95

these models' will MATCH the the old Diana's and FWB's, easy

it's not the gun but the shooter, ask SGT Alvin York

warren

and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

And I could not agree more.

dave