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MACCARI or VORTEK for RWS350 Part 2 - Same Rifle Comparison

January 1 2011 at 11:18 PM
edmund  (Login edsoriano375)
from IP address 76.232.192.250

 
It's Edmund again, and Happy New Year! 2011! As some of you may know, I have posted comparison results from the Maccari vs Vortek for RWS 350 Mag? and indicated what I found after kit installation and CHRONY results.

If you have not read it yet, you may find it at:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/184474/thread/1293590743/last-1293940295/MACCARI+vs+VORTEK+for+RWS+350-

I ordered a new VORTEK PG2 for RWS 350 Mag. and MACCARI 350 Mag. Spring Kit. (These are brand new Kits.) These are not Kits from the prior comparison I had with RWS 350 Magnum Wood Stock with the Maccari 350 Mag Spring Kit and Apex Seal; or the RWS 350P Synthetic Stock with the 350 Mag Vortek PG2 Spring and Guide with Vortek 28Seal. I already have on hand from Air Rifle Headquarters the Moly, Heavy Tar, and Light Tar for this test. The Vortek Kit includes its own lube enclosed in a small black round plastic compact container. The Maccari Pro-Mag Spring did not come with a spring guide.

In an attempt to obtain a fair comparison between the Maccari Pro-Mag Spring and Tar kit to the Vortek PG2 Spring and Guide for the RWS350 Magnum -- I have used the same rifle for the test -- an RWS 350 Magnum Classic .22 cal. Feuerkraft.
I have an RWS 350 Magnum Classic in .22 caliber -- the Feuerkraft that I purchased back in July 2010. In order to find out how many grooves the barrel has, I ran an RWS 14.5 gr. .22 cal. Superpoint pellet through the barrel and counted the lands on the pellet skirt. I found 12 grooves. I must have shot about 5,000-6,000 pellets through it.

While we had rain storms in So. Cal in December a week before Christmas, I disassembled the rifle and I opened it. I discovered it had a broken OEM mainspring near the trigger assembly and I was unable to CHRONY the rifle prior to the Tune Kit installation. However, while stock, I was getting 818-836 fps with 14.5gr Superdomes at 2,700 ft. above sea level. (This is why I believed all three of my .22 cal. magnums are the same -- the Feurkraft 350 Classic, Synthetic 350P, and Wood RWS 350 Magnum).

I also own two idential .177 cal. RWS34 rifles, both with Wood Stock. (Not the Panther) Both 12-land or 12-rifled grooves in the barrel. Both with 15.3 in. barrels. The first .177 RWS34 rifle I bought was in June or July 2010, and the 2nd RWS34 rifle in November 2010 after black Friday and I received it on December 1 2010. They are identical but as we all know, not the same. Each rifle has its own pellet likes and dislikes for accuracy. However, stock is stock, and I have results for the RWS 34 Kits from Maccari and Vortek as well, but that's at another post I will be putting up tomorrow. The Maccari RWS34 GRT Kit did very well, smooth firing cycle...(sorry, this statement doesn't belong in this post).

I took the Diana 350 Feuerkraft I did the disassembly, deburring, cleaning and replaced the piston seal with the red orange colored Vortek28 Seal and used it for both Spring Kits, just to minimize the variables. I cleaned and deburred the inner cylinder tube inside the piston as I need this for the Maccari Kit. I then applied clear tar to break barrel joints, cocking lever connections, ball bearing below the breech, and cocking guide slot, etc. I checked the round breech seal, and I found it was still good with no cracks and is still slightly elevated from the breech port and not flattened in. The OEM Diana piston seal looked worn and faded blue so I replaced it with a new Vortek 28 Seal. I applied a thin (and I mean thin) coat of moly around the front and rear of the piston and it slipped right in to the receiver. The piston and new seal went in smoothly with slight drag and became a little more snug toward the breech. I used a 1/2 in. diameter wood dowel rod to push the piston inside the receiver or compression chamber toward the breech.
I had to fire the rifle 250 times or 1 tin of RWS 14.5 gr. Superdomes before I ran each kit through the CHRONY using the same .22 cal 350 Fuerkraft rifle. I want to break it in and not have any of the potential dieseling or what not interfering with the CHRONY results. Usually, after 200 pellets the rifle settles in, and the spring is seated. Also, I used the same Vortek28 piston Seal with each Kit to minimize the variables. The Vortek PG2 Kit requires I remove the 5mm thick washer inside the piston and the piston cylinder sleeve.


Here are the results of the 10-shot string per pellet type:

MACCARI 350 MAG SPRING AND TAR KIT on RWS 350 Feuerkraft .22 cal. Mag. Rifle:

RWS .22 cal. 14.5 gr. Superdomes in fps: 816.8, 819.0, 823.1, 829.0, 818.6, 819.5, 823.3,824.1, 817.8, 829.0 = 822.02 fps average

RWS .22 cal. 14.2gr. Super-H-Point (Hollowpoint) in fps: 841.0, 841.3, 831.5, 842.9, 832.3, 839.9, 849.7, 845.3, 841.5, 842.4 = 840.78 fps average

RWS .22 cal. 14.5gr Superpoint Extra in fps: 802.2, 810.5, 811.9, 821.6, 823.7,806.5, 804.3, 813.2, 819.8, 805.1 = 811.88 fps average



VORTEK PG2 350 MAG SPRING GUIDE KIT on the Same RWS 350 Feuerkraft .22 cal. Mag. Rifle:

RWS .22 cal. 14.5 gr. Superdomes in fps: 852.7, 858.9, 848.8, 851.0, 849.3, 850.9, 848.8, 852.6, 848.9, 854.6 = 851.65 fps average

RWS .22 cal. 14.2gr. Super-H-Point (Hollowpoint) in fps: 847.4, 858.3, 846.7, 856.1, 858.3, 857.5, 845.9, 860.9, 852.2, 854.1 = 853.74 fps average

RWS .22 cal. 14.5gr Superpoint Extra in fps: 836.9, 834.2, 838.4, 838.8, 842.0, 839.5, 831.0, 835.6, 832.1, 841.6 = 837.01 fps average


I find this to be very interesting. The Vortek is still a bit faster in fps. What? About 22.5 fps on average. It is not as big of a difference from the last comparison using two different rifles with the same 350 Magnum power plants:

The 350 Magnum Wood Stock with Maccari Pro Mag Kit & Vortek Seal compared to the 350P Magnum Synthetic stock with Vortek PG2 350 Kit and Vortek28 Seal.

The characteristics I do find is that when cocking, the Maccari Pro Mag Kit is more linear in cocking tension until the piston rod catches the sear of the trigger housing and becomes cocked.

The Vortek Kit gives you the perceived lighter cocking until you reach 3/4 of the way cocked and the piston rod catches the sear of the trigger housing and becomes cocked.

Both Kits are smooth to cock and the same as my prior comparison.

The perceived shooting characteristic of the Maccari Kit is short and smooth with a short pronounced recoil.

The Vortek Spring and Guide, perceived shooting characteristic is a fast "thunk" with short and quick recoil. It really is hard to describe.

What I find however, it that either kit does not negatively influence the accuracy of the rifle. This 350 Feuerkraft loves 14.5gr Superdomes. The Maccari Kit gives me tight groupings at 11o'clock and the Vortek gives me tight groups at 3 o'clock. I didn't even re-zero my scope.

I guess, it all comes down to which shooting style you like on your Magnum. (Hunting or target shooting?). Compared to a stock rifle, either kit will accomplish the smoothness in cocking an air-gunner may be looking for, and the smooth, quick and short shooting cycle tuners enjoy. All without spring twang and vibration.





 
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AuthorReply

(Login lettercarrier)
71.180.32.209

AWESOME post

January 2 2011, 5:11 AM 

Mr. Edmund:

my hat is off to you

a very well balanced post with an exhaustive and well put analysis

I read this post 3 times and every time I got more and more information out of it

this post does not apply to the M350 only but to any air rifle

and to tell you what happened when I was reading it; "I could feel myself pulling the trigger and feeling the WHOLE firing CYCLE" myself !!!

I KNOW this test took you looong hours to do and minutes to post

SIR: you have a gifted mind and I thank you for sharing your experiment in this forum

Take Care

Warren



and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

 
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(Login LARRYPIRRONE1)
76.95.137.65

GOOD WORK, EDMUND

January 2 2011, 5:52 AM 

where in southern cal do you live? i'm in chino hills. maybe we can lure you into shooting ft when we get Prado up and running again. we still able to shoot out at Angeles near Sylmar.

 
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p k jeetesh
(no login)
202.153.47.106

fantastic stuff...

January 2 2011, 6:26 AM 

...excellent!....the 'fairest' comparison ive ever seen....hats off to you friend...now it remains to be seen, which kit keeps up its numbers and for how long....

 
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(Login 12345boys)
97.114.146.136

Beyond the scientific, Sir,

January 2 2011, 7:02 AM 

Which one do you enjoy shooting the most?

Very apt discription of the firing cycle I find,as I have run both kits through my sole 34, and I agree. Presently running the Vortek,but I will tell you this: I wouldn't hesitate a second to put the JM kit back in. There was just something about it.....

Did you find any sensitivity in hold variances between the two? The PG2 seems quite a bit more forgiving in the 34. Also gets similar results with a wide variety of pellets whereas the JM kit was much more selective.

Thank you for your diligence and hard work in this endeavor. We are all the better for it. There should be an archive for articles such as this. Well done!

Very much looking forward to your 34 article.

Appel

 
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Ds
(Login Dave-vabch)
108.17.130.61

Great work Edmond!

January 2 2011, 7:06 AM 

It is very obvious that you are trying to do a very fair and unbiased comparison of the the two kits. Not the usual biased nonsense that floats around the net. I hope you keep up the good work with this project. Future reports every 1000 pellets would be very interesting. I would like to try the Vortek someday in a R7. If Vortek could quiet that gun even further and increase velocity, it would be very interesting and would be a big hit. Thanks again, and look forward to your post on this comparison.

regards
Dave@vabch

 
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edmund
(Login edsoriano375)
76.232.192.250

@Larry

January 2 2011, 9:11 AM 

Thanks Larry. Sounds good. Send me an email.

 
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(Login Samples)
173.80.38.250

Gread Job..

January 2 2011, 9:08 AM 

Edmund!Funny how your guns like the Superdomes the best,mine like FTT,and Crosman Premiers.You bought 5 guns,all with 12 land barrels,they must have made a lot of guns with those barrels,sounds like your`s are great shooters,and in the end all that counts.
Regards,Dizz

 
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(Login edsoriano375)
76.232.192.250

Thank You

January 2 2011, 9:24 AM 

I thank you for your comment. I believe the purpose of these forums is to learn from one another in support of our airgun hobby. I was looking for this information myself several months ago and I needed answers.

So, I thought I would take two similar 350 Magnum rifles: Wood stock and Synthetic Stock -- and come up with results objectively and subjectively give my impressions on the two kits. I am not paid by either Macarri or Vortek to come up with the results.

After some discussions with others on the Forum, I thought, why not use the same rifle to minimize the variables?

I invested my time, money, and effort just to post this information in hopes that it may help others in the airgun community. I am not here to promote, market, or create a biased opinion or play favorites. I just want the truth. Which kit works better for my rifle? That's my question.

Again, Happy New Year! 2011!




 
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(Login Grigor)
99.58.165.161

MACCARI VS VORTEK for RWS350

January 2 2011, 10:06 AM 

Ok guys, some of you are standing against my test results saying that I didn't do the testing correctly by kits requirment. I am gonna try to make this more clear to everyone. I have only replaced the springs just to see which one is the most powerful one. I know the Vortek kit requires to remove the piston sleve and the washer so the plastic sleeve can fit and maybe to make the piston lighter? the plastic sleeve that comes in vortek kit it does not affect on the power change alone it is just to quiet and smooth the gun down. Now there is one thing though! If you remove the components from the gun as Vortek kit requires, the piston becomes lighter. So maybe it is the reason in higher velocity numbers in Edmund's test? Could be! What if we use the Maccari's spring with lighter piston!!!! So in that case I am gonna do another test just to find out. Cause I wanna find out myself. But don't forget that the Maccari's spring is lot more powerful than Vorteck's as my test showed. Now, Edmund you asked me about the size different of two coils. The Maccari's spring has 38 coils and the wire is .135" thick. and the Vortek's spring has 35 coils and .128" thick (same thickness as the factory spring but the factory spring has 40 coils) The Vortek spring is slightly longer but not much about .25". I am in Fresno Ca. so it is not much higher than sea level.
So I am gonna do another test with the components removed with lighter piston and will keep you guys posted.

 
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(Login ZVP)
Forum Owner
76.20.106.81

Isn't the valley great airgun country?

January 2 2011, 10:57 AM 

Greg,

 I live out in Newman about 80 miles N/W of you and I simply love the shooting here in the Central Valley. The weather goes to extremes sometimes (Extremelly wet and chilly today!) but for the most part we get a lot of good shooting days in! Here at the base of the foothills we get wind though and you have to sorta plan your days around it...

 Great point you brought up about the spring differences. I only have pratical experience with the JM Mainspring in my rifles but I really like it!

 Good shootin!

 ZVP


 
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(Login only1harry)
71.169.33.119

Great post!

January 2 2011, 7:33 PM 

Very good info! Thanks for taking the time to do this and tell us about it.

I would really like to know which one you enjoy shooting the most, and which rifle/kit do you find more accurate?

I agree with you, that the Vortek kit provides more resistance about 3/4 of the way down as you cock it. The JM kit on my 36 is very linear and easy to cock all the way down when the sear engages the trigger. I am not real happy about the way my 350 cocks with the Vortek kit, but it's not bad. I can live with it. I had the pleasure of shooting a 350 with the JM Pro-Mag spring in it a couple of days ago (not mine), and I found it a little easier to cock than my 350 with the Vortek kit. It also had a custom spring guide (Delrin I think). I only took a couple of shot with it so I can't judge it, review it or compared it with my 350 w/Vortek, especially since I did not shoot them back to back, but I was pleased with its (JM) shot cycle. I didn't think it was better or worse than my 350 (w/PG2) is the best I can describe it.



----
Diana 350 .22
Diana 350 .177
Diana 48 .22
Diana 36 .177
Lemak custom AF Condor .25
Talon Tunes AF Condor .25
Airhog AF Condor .22
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
Crosman 2240 Custom
Other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177

 
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Dizz
(no login)
173.80.38.250

Greg,Sounds.

January 4 2011, 2:02 AM 

good.On my 350 22 cal Feuerkraft,after you take the spring out,the piston liner(haden`t seen this before)is so loose it will just fall out,with weight behind it,if it`s tight,just tap end of latch bar on a vice,that should work.It may not be any faster this way,but it`s the way it`s supposed to work.My 350 has the Vortek kit,and it was shooting 780 with FTT,and about 805 CP`s.Today I added the weight ,but not liner,and velocity increased to 810fps with H&N FTT,so a 30fps gain was welcome.This is just a difficult gun to bring up,from all the things I`ve done to it so far,I`m @ 2450',and this gun was made in 01/08,and has the German 8 land barrel,but not a really tight bore
good luck,Dizz.

 
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Dano
(no login)
166.205.13.202

Re: MACCARI or VORTEK for RWS350 Part 2 - Same Rifle Comparison

January 2 2011, 7:54 PM 

Good review you think you can try them with crow mags a heavier pellet that's what I use every once in awhile and mine shoots them pretty hard I have a 350 panther with a pro mag spring with oem seal.

 
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GerundD
(no login)
67.159.56.162

Re: MACCARI or VORTEK for RWS350 Part 2 - Same Rifle Comparison

January 4 2011, 5:59 AM 

I was looking the ARH web sight and couldn't find the pro mag spring kit. All I could find was spring. Do anyone have the link to buying the kit? What are guides made of in the pro mag kit. Peace, Gerund

 
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(Login only1harry)
71.169.33.119

I do not think

January 4 2011, 11:12 AM 

JM sells a spring guide for it. Only the spring. I would recommend a custom spring guide.



----
Diana 350 .22
Diana 350 .177
Diana 48 .22
Diana 36 .177
Lemak custom AF Condor .25
Talon Tunes AF Condor .25
Airhog AF Condor .22
RWS Hammerli 850 .22
Crosman 2240 Custom
Other Crosman Pump & CO2 .177

 
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