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What is barrel droop and

March 30 2011 at 7:38 AM
  (Login MadMike740)
from IP address 63.239.208.222

 
does every gun have it? Explanation? I'm looking to put a scope on and I keep hearing all this Barrel Droop talk...MY barrel doesn't look droopy, when I shoulder my M34 the sights line up perfectly and it feels perfect.

When I should a side by side shotgun and look down it, to me the barrels look like they're bowed like a banana...is that what barrel droop is?

 
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AuthorReply
Dan L.
(Login DeadEyeDan)
174.22.61.34

Built in

March 30 2011, 10:18 AM 

RWS designs barrel droop into their rifles thus controlling the inevitable. Barrel droop is just that it starts at where the barrel hinges and does not effect accuracy but usually requires a special mounting system for scopes. Ive heard you can fix droop usually through an experiencing gunsmith, but why bother?

I have a CZ that has massive droop and is deadly accurate.

 
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warren
(Login lettercarrier)
173.65.2.138

droop anyone??

March 30 2011, 2:56 PM 

I have been and will be one of the biggest proponents agains this nonsense, EXCUSE me for what follows

only Diana has this issue incorporated into their lines and there is NO rhyme or reason since the droop can be all the way from 4 to 17 degrees, not a uniform or consistent droop from the factory

I have many Diana's and none have the barrel droop because they are dealt with extreme prejudice and corrected with the help of a 2 X 4 from Home Depot

don't need a "SPECIAL" droop compensator mount to correct the barrel droop

but if you can live with it then so be it

warren

and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"

 
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(Login Hunter_NZ)
203.173.154.61

Re: droop anyone??

March 30 2011, 9:18 PM 

I agree with you Warren,

my 54 has droop, a sidelever compensation mount adjusts for 17.1 inches yet my droop isnt 17.1, there seems to be no uniformity to this droop and it's a real pain in the butt. After buying the Diana, you need to buy a compensator mount, and then buy a scope and rings.

If you use a large objective scope like I do such as a 56mm then your scope is so damn high and unless you have a longgg face your not going to get a cheek weld on the cheek piece.

My diana 31 has no droop and is a dream.

I love my Diana's for they are but I wont be buying another one.

I've been through so many different types of ring's and mounts trying to combat this droop drama that next I'm taking it into a gunsmith and letting him beat the barrel into a straight line.

No other air gun manufacture incorporates droop, and if they did I'd bet it would be one setting, not as Warren says somewhere between 4 and 17 inches, and I think it's a far greater spread than that as the UTG compensation mount for Diana break barrels is set to 20 inches.

I'd love to hear from a Diana representative why it ranges from 4-20 inches, my guess is, they wouldn't have an answer.

ZVP, I know you put up a thread saying Brands, tuners etc were winging about what people were saying on this forum about their products or services etc, I guess they don't like the truth being expressed, but we do have freedom of speach.

If they don't like it, tell them to address the issue, if they have a problem with my statement, they're welcome to email me or fly over to my house, I'll show them my Diana's and my friend's and we will all Wait for an explanation.


 
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Anonymous
(no login)
24.224.172.76

I've got a 34 that has the opposite,

April 1 2011, 12:14 PM 

(It's drooped up) and has been since new,(And no, it's not been shot while open) either,lol.

It was that way right from the factory except it has a Germise Barrel and perhaps the Chinese planned it that way,lol.

My 350 has a slight droop,but not noticeable to the eye,so it's hardly there at all.She has a German barrel too and I like that but it's choked tighter than the 12 groove.

C'Mon Diana,,take the Droop Factor out like HW has.

 
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Tom
(Login tallguy606)
75.66.73.49

droop

March 30 2011, 5:48 PM 

Droop is when the barrel does not extend out parallel to the receiver tube. Turn your gun on its side, sight down the side of the compression tube, and you can see that the barrel points downward relative to the compression tube. My 34 has droop but shoots great; my newer 350 Feuerkraft .22 has almost no droop; that is, the barrel is almost parallel its full length to the receiver tube.

 
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RedFeather
(no login)
72.66.3.181

Best to do a search here

March 30 2011, 5:51 PM 

It's all been said, a couple dozen times, but well said. Diana incorporates droop, from what has been reported by Diana, to adjust the iron sights so that they shoot within the range of their adjustments. This because so much of their market, apparently, uses iron sights. But search and have some snacks and a couple of drinks handy. There's lot to learn.

 
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IH Johnstone
(Login IHJohnstone)
86.153.72.68

A few things, Mike

April 1 2011, 1:52 AM 

Not all Diana guns have droop, my M52 doesn't exhibit any.

Droop (where present) is deliberately induced at the factory by hand (which explains the 'range of severity'). Its put there so the gun can be used with open sights & at relatively short range.

Most 10 Metre Target spring guns had droop built-in, I recently saw a 'used' HW 55 Target (I think that was the model) with a massive amount of barrel droop.


On the plus side happy.gif

A skilled gunsmith could do straighten any barrel in about 10 minutes...

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

 
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(no login)
96.60.232.203

I doubt droop is built ,

April 1 2011, 1:50 PM 

I would think BBL droop has to do with the manufacturing process rqther than Diana incorperating it into each gun. That would add a process building the BBL assembly and be costly.
I used the 2x4 process for fixing my 34 droop a couple years ago and never looked back , Gun is accurate ,zero,s with any scope I have tried, what more could you ask for.

 
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(Login IHJohnstone)
86.128.65.88

Explain yourself, Ron

April 1 2011, 2:36 PM 

happy.gif

1) & its not just you but why is a Barrel described as a 'BBL' in the US (cant make head nor tail of that).

2) How is the 'droop' part of any manufacturing process (I think your implying 'slack' workmanship) but in fact it IS a final stage of the gun making process at M & G (sometimes) and makes use of the time / labour of very highly skilled gunsmiths. To do this they use a rather more complex version of the kit shown in my photo.


The Merits / Demerits of barrel droop are not under discussion right here, I personally cant see many virtues in an enforced barrel droop, its a complete PITA I would imagine.

 
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Ron
(no login)
71.203.250.52

Re: Explain yourself, Ron

April 1 2011, 3:18 PM 

Sorry if I offended you by discribing a barrel as a BBL, I do enjoy air rifles but not anal about them.
I had barrel droop in my 34 and built a homemade jig and fixed the problem. {it worked and I moved on} I have worked in manfacturing for many years [now retired} and can assure you Diana is just another company trying to make a profit and does not spend a lot of process time trying to adjust a barrel on your air rifle.
Again sorry if I offended anyone this just my humble opinion.

 
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(Login IHJohnstone)
86.128.65.88

Nil offence, Ron

April 1 2011, 4:20 PM 

RE: 1) I'll find someone else to blame ! happy.gif.

about 2) Yes, it does seem totally 'odd' to spend time putting in a procedure / step in the whole process with this particular end result. Whilst there are a lot of 'shooters' in Germany using the open sights and at low power levels surely a CBA would show that's its more effective / profitable to make without any droop for your total World wide sales?

 
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(Login Dieker)
69.224.57.67

IH I always thought BBL meant Break Barrel. I agree if

December 30 2012, 10:54 AM 

a guy is using alot of abbreviations they should be spelled out the first time and then used freely. Theres alot of that in classified adds and it real annoying. You don't want to assume anything when buying a gun.

 
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(no login)
86.46.86.249

droop

January 4 2012, 2:38 AM 

ive a weihrauch and the drop between the tip of the barrel at the muzzle and the line of sight taken along the scope rail is about .75 inches...thats 33 inches of drop at 45 yds....too much to compensate for with scope shimming or an adjustable mount. i believe it to be a catastrophic manufacturing defect if you intend fitting a scope

 
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(Login HectorMedina)
24.47.240.247

Ah . . . to be or not to be, that is the question

January 4 2012, 3:56 PM 

Friends!; Romans!, Country men!, Lend me your ears!

Ooops, wrong play.

It's just that this gets REAL old.

IH.- Bbl is the abbreviation of barrel (as in oil measure), so it is valid for gun barrels. Maybe not the purest of terms, but perfectly understandable. On your second entry, a MAJORITY of airguns are only and always used with iron sights. Trend is slowly favoring scopes, but still has about a decade to go till the scope users even come even to the iron sights users.

Ron.- Your thoughts are wrong. EVERY rifle is tested at M&G's test range before being packed. It is at that point where the sights are put in the mid position and the barrels corrected to hit POA at 10 meters. Because the sights are not perfectly identical, droops are not identical.

Darren.- Droop is a problem ONLY if you use a scope. If you use the factory iron sights, then it is precisely what allows you to hit what you're aiming at in the short distance most airguns are used. If the barrels were not drooped, the stocks and LOS's would be totally weird and crazy looking.

MOST well made airguns have droop (it means they were tested and aimed at the factory). If this is a bother to you because you use a scope, correct it or have someone qualified correct it for you. It is a simple bending procedure. It just needs good control of force and experience in straightening things out.

Now, get out and shoot!

LOL!





Un Abrazo!




H�ctor

 
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(Login jafjaf)
154.5.219.71

Droop

January 4 2012, 4:18 PM 

I own two HW and there is no noticeable droop,as I can take the scope off of the HW77 and put it on my HW50s and with not more than a few clicks it is shooting right on,My diana20T01 had a lot of barrel droop when I recieved it and after asking around a bit I found I could straighten the barrel or at least bend it up. The accuracy on this little gun was amasing considering it was not a real expencive air rifle. especialy after I got a spring and seal from Hector via Diana Thanks again Hector John

 
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Bob
(no login)
68.197.29.92

Barrel Droop

January 4 2012, 5:15 PM 

Mike,

On my RWS 54 I installed a Leapers 4-16x56 with a one piece mount that did not compensate for droop. I ran out of scope adjustment and was still shooting 8" low at 22 yards. I then purchased the Leapers Scope base with 17" of droop compensation and all is good. I also used Weaver 4 screw rings to keep the scope tube from sliding through the rings. This combo has worked well for 2000 rounds so far. I also have a 30mm tube that seems to grip better with the added surface area.

Bob

 
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(Login aom22)
99.61.149.159

Re: Ah . . . to be or not to be, that is the question

December 30 2012, 7:05 PM 

Héctor has written extensively on this topic over and over and again.
Here are a few links that will explain about barrel droop.
I know ... study these links ... you'll learn a lot.

 

 
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RedFeather
(Login RedFeather)
Owner Moderator
173.73.139.192

Ian, I have a m/f dbl bbl dt'd 12 ga o/u

January 4 2012, 6:25 PM 

Whew! Was THAT ever hard to type right!

Go with the adjusting the irons sights explanation. It makes sense, considering that Diana's market covers many areas where the guns are used for close range pest control and the iron sights are all that they will ever wear. All of this droop poop stems from scoping the guns and, since scopes and rings come in various sizes and heights, it can get complicated rather quickly. You can either shim, bend the barrel or try one of the new adjustable scope bases. But, if you bend the barrel, you might not be able to use those sights again.

(Modified/Full Choke, double barreled, double triggered twelve gauge over/under)


 
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(Login Lizzylou)
75.222.77.150

Re: What is barrel droop and

January 12 2012, 2:59 PM 

I have three 34's. Two of them have barrel droop. The third one doesn't because it had a bent barrel (most likely a barrel-slap problem) when I bought it, and I straightened the barrel myself.

That being said, the droop in the other two doesn't bother me. I use the UTG compensator mounts and I love that mounting system, lol.

Lemonade out of lemons. happy.gif

 
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Robert
(Login DoveBuster)
99.172.160.164

Please Explain the 2 x 4 Method of BBL Straightening

December 30 2012, 10:46 AM 

I have a model 45 with no barrel droop in .177. I bought a Chinese .22 bbl and it has a pronounced droop. I then bought a droop compensating scope base. However, the scope I want to use is designed to fit a dovetail. Now I have a droop compensating scope base with a dovetail converter and a 4x scope perched on top. The arrangement is not very eye appealing. Please advise how to bend the barrel with a 2 x 4. Thanks.

 
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(Login Dieker)
69.224.57.67

Mike your not gonna notice droop when looking thru your sights

December 30 2012, 11:12 AM 

cause both sights are mounted on the barrel. The problem starts when you put a scope on the receiver that points straight out. The raised RWS mount also points straight out along with the receiver and you then have to get all that lined up with the barrel thats pointed in only God knows what direction.
All this would not be a problem If RWs would supply a range of suitable mounts but they do not even come close. They offer an older RWs adjustable C mount that will fail you. The new drooper mount and the UTG weaver thing that is a joke. They need to offer a low, med, high drooper mount and need to take in consideration the fact that RWS uses a raised rail to begin with. A high mount on a HW gun becomes a super dooper high mount on a diana and they just don't take this into conideration. And please put 4 bolts on each scope ring. Just humor please Diana.
Oh yeah RWS used to sell an adjustable mount with a couple wedge shims to put under the rings. They were pretty hinky setups. I have mine on my turkish lonbow that has a barrel that droops upward. Everything is seriously locktighted down on that thing I would never try and change the scope on that rifle. Its way too much troubba.
I would not tell diana there business but i still have not gotten any feedback on my suggestion that they add the droop into the welded on dovetail. Its probably a stupid idea and someone will no doubt insult me viscously rather than simply explaining why it won't work or say geez it should be made out solid gold and cost $20. The price is irrelvent to this discussion. The barrel and the rail is already on the gun.

 
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Barry.g
(Login barry.g)
86.190.26.121

My 34 has visible droop but

December 30 2012, 12:49 PM 

I cant see any on my 460, I can even change scopes from my TX to the 460 with little adjustment.


[linked image]

 
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(no login)
69.224.57.67

It seems to me like the older 34's have more droop than the newer models.

December 30 2012, 1:46 PM 

The model 24 I just bought has BKL double strap mounts on it right now and the Hawke scope is cranked all the way up as high as it will go and I am still shooting 3 inches low at 25 yards. I ran out of droop mounts. The leapers offset mount works well when you put a piece of steel under the rear of the mount on top of the dovetail. Right at the end of the mount in plain view. It seems to work out perfect. I have some flat welding rod I cutoff for that.
Since the 24 is a small gun with a 32 MM scope I could not stand to have the scope an inch off the gun so the RWS drooper mount won't cut it all that well. May be what I end up with though..

 
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RedFeather
(no login)
72.66.118.80

I think Sisyphus had barrel droop....no, wait... that was a large rock

December 30 2012, 2:54 PM 

Might as well have been discussions of droop. The subject never seems to end. Here is the best explanation for "droop" that I have encountered. Air rifle bore lines are well below the visual line of sight when using a scope. The compression tube is fairly large and the scope sits fairly high. If you map the bore line and the line of sight to the point of aim, you will see that it makes an acute angle. The closer the target, the wider the angle becomes. At thirty meters this isn't so bad but up close, say at ten, it challenges the ability of most scopes to bring the point of aim to the point of impact. Since air gun iron sights are useful out to about thirty yards, it isn't an issue. Start shooting with a scope at very close ranges and you have to compensate with shimming or a drooper mount. (Think about that. You adjust the drooper mount to POI and maybe you can't get enough adjustment the other way at fifty yards?) Again, the higher the scope in relation to the bore line, the less acute the angle. Those drooper mounts are merely tilting the scope down to reduce it.

So, we have scopes robust enough for air guns, allowing us to shoot more accurately at extended, useful ranges, but, due to the air gun's design, we sacrifice some of the short range accuracy when so doing.

 
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(Login srkhan)
202.4.173.53

Re: I think Sisyphus had barrel droop....no, wait... that was a large rock

December 31 2012, 8:53 AM 

how to identify a barrel drop t06 gun

 
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