"However, I have seen many, many hip x-rays going back 30 years, to Cal Riggs and Dave Williams (both who encouraged it and got me started on it)."
How many is "many many"? Just to get a perspective.
>>>> As a wild guess, probably around 100 x-rays.
"Sure, the majority of hip x-rays I've seen over the years, when someone said their vet said their dog was dysplastic, was that really, they were pretty good for bulldogs, average, etc. But also, in the same way, I HAVE seen many x-rays where they were terrible".
I think that could be said of many dogs of many breeds. I will stand firm in my opinion that there likely has not been nearly enough bulldog hip x rays done to make any determination at all, other than anectdotal of what is an "average" hip score. Might be that many bulldogs actually HAVE good hips.
>>>> I do believe it is a basic knowledge of orthopaedics that is a deciding fact in how joints should be. Right is right, wrong is wrong. But, granted, a Bulldog with hips that would not pass OFA, can still be in the upper percentile of the overall total. That would be the goal to be shooting for. The reason that mildly dysplastic does not usually present a serious health problem with Bulldogs is because of the muscule mass that Bulldogs have, that other breeds don't. But that doesn't mean that arthritis will still trouble the dog as it ages, more so, than a Bulldog with good hips.
"So, if we are trying to better the breed, better the health, create a health database that will help years down the road, and to make us, as BCA members stand out as concerned breeders compared to BYB and internet millers, I think it is just as important as the other health testing."
As I said, the more the merrier, but at this point, I think it needs to left up to the breeders.
I persoanlly have been encouraged by the amount of people who have decided to test, but am realistic enough to know that it will take along time, if at all, for all breeers to get on board.
"Really, how effective is CERF testing?"
Very, an opthamologists can tell if the dog has a whole host of eye diseases.
"To be valid, it must be renewed yearly. So, a year old stud passes his CERF. And thru his campaigning over the next few years, becomes a popular stud and sires many pups. Then IF he was tested again at 4 or 5 years of age, issues show up......how did it help prevent the problems from being passed on to his get and now into the 2nd or 3rd generation? I realize if there is a problem initially, it will be discovered and then breeding decisions can be made then. But, how many Bulldogs with a CERF, have it renewed yearly?"
I have not followed the CERF results to know. I have had a few of my dogs done, one or two repeats, but no, I don't follow up with it yearly, mainly because once again, we don't have the type of eye diseases that require that sort of follow up (and hopefully never will).. but an initial exam does no harm and can be quite informative.
>>>"we don't have the type of eye diseases that require that sort of follow up " - EXACTLY.... So really the only thing that might be detected would be something like entropia. However, a bulldog at one year can very easily have no problem, but by 2-3, with the final growth of the head, then have some entropia problem. I guess if I want a "snapshot" of just at that time, the test would be ok. But I still feel it is misleading in that we DON'T have the diseases of the eye such as collies, and what Bulldog problems are something that can come up a year or two later.
"So, I guess we all have to decide what health testing is important. For my money, I think my doing the x-rays helps in producing a more sound bulldog than the benefits of CERF."
Hopefully we won't find that some popular sire somewhere down the road doesn't come up a carrier for PRA either (or any of the other heritable eye diseases). Talk about devastating to the breed. Bulldogs are among the few who do not have this problem in a large group, but it doesn't take much to get it started. I personally like an opthamologist to examine all aspects of my dog's eye anatomies. I think that a dog with chronic eye irritation leads just as miserable a life as one who is arthritic, not to mention I don't want to deal with any eye disease. The clinics are easy to find and not expensive, so why not?
In a perfect world, bulldogs would feel no pain caused by uncaring breeders, but please don't knock or discount CERF until you spend time with Collie, Irish Setter, Poodle, miniature Schnauzer people (the list goes on) whose breeds have been badly affected by hereditary eye diesease and know what it is like to HAVE to CERF their dogs every year.
"I'm open to learn, and discuss this. But no one seems to answer me on it".
>>> Elizabeth, thanks for the links. I have read many of them, an more. I just don't understand why there can't be open discussions on the various health issues and tests, even agreeing to disagree, be open to learn, just as much as a educational and interesting thread can be done on the standard. Even with that, it doesn't mean all agree with the interpretation, but all can learn from the discussion. Don't you agree?
Posted on Jun 26, 2008, 7:21 PM from IP address 64.12.116.70