The Macedonian Issue

Presentation on the Macedonian Issue to the Government of Canada ministry of foreign affairs by the Hellenic Canadian Congress

A fundamental aspect of the Balkan situation is the concept of nation versus minority in a region which at the same time serves as the crossroads of Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. The difficulty with understanding the social and political context of Balkan states is that for the most part they do not represent homogeneous societies and their frontiers do not correspond to national borders. A significant exception is Greece, which the exception of a small Muslim minority, has a homoginious society.

This has created the phenomenon of "national minorities" and the recognition and acceptance of such entities as integral elements of the respective Balkan states. In effect, the ethnic groups in these countries do not see themselves as minorities but identify with a particular state or nation regardless of the fact that they are citizens of another country.

In the early nineteenth century Balkan nationalism was ignored in order to prop up the Ottoman Empire and avoid a power vacuum in the Middle East. Later in the same century the Austro-Hungarian Empire took over Bosnia-Herzegovina to stem Serbian nationalism within the borders of its own territory. Russia supported Bulgarian claims to northern Greece (present day Macedonia) to acquire a port in the Aegean, while Great Britain and France fanned the flames of nationalism in Greece and Serbia to check the German presence in the Balkans.

After the First World War the Allies established Yugoslavia with little regard for the national and ethnic susceptibilities of the minorities they included in the new state. In 1940 the Germans used Bulgaria as the staging ground for their invasion of Greece and Yugoslavia and later rewarded the Bulgarians by handing them eastern Macedonia and Thrace. In the post-war period, Marshal Tito established the so-called "Macedonian" republic by taking a part of southern Serbia and christening it with the Hellenic name of Macedonia. He did this as a first step in expanding to the south (Greece and Bulgaria) and acquiring an outlet to the Aegean Sea. That is the extent of the connection between Tito's creature and northern Greece. The handful of Greeks who went to live in the People's Republic of "Macedonia" were the remnants of Greek communist insurgents and their families who fled Greece at the end of the civil war in 1949.

As part of this plan Tito in 1947, with Stalin's support, forced the Bulgarian Government to agree to turn over its eastern province to Yugoslavia. Concurrently he had extracted a promise from the Greek communist forces, during the course of the civil war in Greece, to surrender the Greek province of Macedonia in exchange for Yugoslav support for their insurrection. However, after the Tito-Stalin split Bulgaria broke its agreement with Tito and the so-called Macedonian republic simply served as another check on Serbian influence in the federation since it no longer offered a means to expansion.

Throughout the seventies and eighties the Yugoslav communists continued to pay lip service to the Macedonian entity but not enough to challenge Albanian, Bulgarian or Greek sensitivities. But with the collapse of the communist system all the old props vanished and Balkan nationalism re-emerged from a long period of containment.

The choice of name and the creation of an artificial Macedonian nation by the Yugoslav communists had served not only to establish some type of claim to northern Greece and diminish Serbia within the Yugoslav federation, but it provided a convenient entity under which Serbs, Albanians, Bulgarians, Greeks, and other ethnic groups could be lumped together in the new republic.

To a great extent this is the legacy that the Gligorov Government has had to deal with. In a state of minorities the only way to contain the national demands of the Albanian, Serbian, Bulgarian as well as other groups is to sweep them under the cover of a Macedonian identity. Accordingly, the issue of the name is more than a reflection of Greek sentiments regarding the ancient past but a legitimate concern over the de-stabilization of the Balkans and the spread of the current conflict in the entire region.

Indeed if Yugoslavia was a microcosm of the Balkans, then the so-called Macedonian republic is a miniature of the Yugoslav federation. As such it contains all the elements of further conflict and perpetual upheaval with a good possibility of intervention by most of the Balkan states that could degenerate into a wider conflict. The European response has been that recognition of the various Yugoslav republics would serve as the panacea in preventing war and ethnic violence.

This unfortunately has only added to the carnage in Bosnia-Herzegovina despite international recognition and more than likely the same fate awaits the "People's Republic of Macedonia." Bulgaria considers the majority of the eastern half of the republic's inhabitants to be ethnic Bulgarians and destined for union with Bulgaria. In fact the former Prime Minister of Bulgaria, Dimitar Popov, at the beginning of April stated: "The dissolution of Yugoslavia will undermine existing treaties and allow Bulgaria to seek international support to undo the historical injustice done to her as regards the Bulgarian western provinces (parts of Macedonia and Serbia)."

The Serbian Government has also said that although it will not oppose the independence of the republic, it has made it clear that it will not tolerate Bulgarian domination of Macedonia nor accept the nomenclature. For its part the Albanian Government has made no secret of its intentions and has set two conditions for the recognition of this state. First that the Gligorov regime recognize an independent "Republic of Kosovo" and, second, that it expresses its willingness to acknowledge an autonomous state for its Albanian districts. There is every indication that once autonomy is achieved for the Albanian minority the pressure will start for unification with Albania.

Unfortunately, the Bandinter Arbitration Commission, in dealing with the Macedonian issue, only examined the issue within narrow legal parameters. The objectives of the EC mandated to the commission failed to include an examination of the broader political and ethnic issues but were restricted to consider only the legal aspect of the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia's petition for recognition. Once again haste and lack of foresight - which have characterized the developments in Yugoslavia - dictated the outcome of another lost opportunity. Significantly, Mr. Bandinter underlined this failure in an interview with Le Monde.

As a result the Commission refused to listen to the objections raised by the ethnic Albanians, Serbs, and Bulgarians in the republic who have to ultimately live with the consequences of the failure to deal with the policies of the Gligorov's regime. An important consideration for the EC ministers in postponing recognition, in addition to Greek objections, was the letter of protest sent to them by the leaders of the Albanian minority citing considerable violations of human rights and the intent of the Gligorov Government to deny them a measure of self-determination.

The response of the Gligorov government has been to gloss over the human rights violations and has employed several public relations firms to lobby on its behalf. In fact the role of public relations companies represents a new phenomenon in international relations brought about by the rapid emergence of so many new states. The impact of such firms is considerable but their interests are purely monetary and it is the international community that must deal with the consequences of their acts. It is only a matter of time before other groups ethnic or otherwise will employ such agencies to secure them independence, regardless of the geopolitical consequences.

It is not certain whether the Gligorov regime will be able to contain not only Albanian and Serbian aspirations, but if it could restrain some of its more enthusiastic followers from pursuing expansionist policies. Several members of the Gligorov Government have gone on record advocating a greater Macedonia to be established from parts of Greece, Bulgaria and Albania. This is certainly implicit in the preamble of the constitution that the Gligorov regime was to amend, which it did by simple government decree, in order to meet the EC requirements for recognition. But the onslaught of slick marketing and lobbying has overshadowed the failure of the republic to meet the EC criteria, one of which clearly indicates that the republic cannot adopt a name that threatens the territory of its neighbors, and specifically of a neighbor who is a member of the European Community.

The threat cannot seriously come from this tiny republic but it could easily serve as the pawn of other powers who will use the tiny republic as a means to achieve their own irredentist ambitions. There are indications that the Gligorov regime has authorized European firms to establish chemical waste disposal facilities and it is only a matter of time before nuclear waste finds a home in the southern Balkans. It is clear that a weak Macedonia will not resist becoming Europe's garbage dump.

In the near future it could serve Bulgarian interests to support its co-nationals in this new state and the same can be said for Albania, and Serbia. Indeed, the Gligorov regime has also made claims against Greece on behalf a so-called "Macedonia" minority in northern Greece. Such a claim is not only unfounded but it is repudiated by the inhabitants of northern Greece who have participated in demonstrations of over one million against the policies of FYROM.

The Greek Government agreed to the admission of this republic in the UN under the temporary name of FYROM, in the interests of preventing any further de-stabilization in this region as well as in the republic itself. At the same time the Greek Government accepted UN arbitration to resolve the issue of the name and agreed to a series of confidence building measures.

Unfortunately, the Government of FYROM remained intransigent on all these measures which led to the breakdown in the UN sponsored discussions on resolving the outstanding issues between the two governments. In addition the Gligorov regime continued to lobby the international community for recognition and several countries, because of their own agendas have agreed to establish diplomatic relations with FYROM.

We believe this is a serious mistake since it will encourage the Gligorov Government to refuse any compromise or a reasonable solution to the problem. The establishment of diplomatic relations will not provide FYROM with any additional protection, and in this case we can cite the example of Bosnia which despite and because of international recognition has brought that republic to near collapse with the cost of hundreds of thousands of human lives. Under the current conditions, with many of the countries that have peacekeeping forces in the former Yugoslavia re-considering whether or not to continue to maintain these forces, it is highly unlikely that should FYROM succumb into a state of civil war there would little or no possibilities of providing peacekeeping forces.

As Canadians of Greek origin we are deeply concerned by these issues and we believe that Canada can play a leading role in preventing further bloodshed in the Balkans. For us it is not only a matter of preserving our cultural heritage by insisting that Macedonia is part of our identity, but we strongly feel that our government should be on the side of truth and justice. We believe that all peoples have the right to self-determination but that cannot take place at the expense of other nations.

Indeed, the issue of the name carries the seeds of conflict and provides the backdrop for a potential power struggle that will eventually require additional peace-keeping forces and greater Canadian involvement. For these reasons we believe that the Government of Canada should abide by the UN resolutions concerning FYROM, and avoid any premature diplomatic gesture that would hinder the UN efforts.

Prepared for by the Hellenic Studies Centre at Dawson College for the Hellenic canadian Congress. The address for the Hellenic Congress of Quebec: President, Sotiris Antypas Congres Hellenique du Quebec 5777 Wilderton Montreal, Quebec, (514) 738-2421

The Macedonian Issue is a big problem inside the Orthodox World. One that needs to be dealt with and fast. Perhaps we can change this thread into one that we can debate what should happen dealing with this issue.



"All people have fears, but the brave put down their fears and go forward, sometimes to death, but always to victory."
--motto of the King's Guard in ancient Greece

I'm willing to NOT REVIVE territorial bickering between
ancient Greece and Armenia. I say blow off the dust on ancient maps and RULE FROM ALEXANDER'S ANCIENT CAPITAL.
Said Alexander "I HAVE MADE YOU ALL ONE NATION; LET NOT BROTHER RAISE HAND AGAINST BROTHER!"
That quote from Arrian's "Anabasis Alexandroo" brings tears to my eyes every time I think of it. The FIRST to unify on this proposal should be SERBS, GREEKS AND ARMENIANS because THEY stand to lose by NOT unifying!

What do you feel should happen with FYROM and the Skopjean?

Re-education?
Renaming the State?
Dividing it between it Bulgaria, Greece, and other countries?
Allowing it to be called Macedonia?

What is your solution?

towards ancient (now irrelevant) territorial squabbles between Greeks and Armenians!
AS LONG AS THE UNSPEAKABLE TURK IS OUT OF OUR ANCIENT HOMELAND(S) why bicker over a couple of square-miles of terrain EITHER WAY?
Ethno-territorially LEAVE THE BALKANS AS IT IS! The unification and empowerment of all of those ethnicities from Serbia to the gates of India comes FIRST! Muslim SUBethnicities (Albanians and Pomaks etc.) need to be deported to Mongolia or Arabia of course.
I feel that ONLY the Serbian Army is determined and morally strong enough to push this program forward WHEN AND ONLY WHEN the former ruling party (SPS/JUL) returns to power and NATO exits from the scene. The most consistent core of resistence against the Turk HISTORICALLY has been the Serb and Greek units of the Struggle. I have a feeling they're the ones to be LEADING the forthcoming struggle!

So my friend you think Greeks should do nothing as these Skopjean steal our history and make claims on our land?



"All people have fears, but the brave put down their fears and go forward, sometimes to death, but always to victory."
--motto of the King's Guard in ancient Greece

CORRECT ME if I'm wrong but the FURTHER we go back into Indo-European (TRUE Aryan)prehistory the MORE Slavs, Greeks, Armenians etc. meld into one-ness. I was hoping Alexandrian Unity would overwhelm all differences in the interests of getting rid of Turkish parasites and the ultimate poison: the Krauts. The heirs of the bashiboozooks and wehrmachts are WAITING to exploit ANY differences between us.

You are right, that Unity is a strong element which is lacking in our region, but no one is willing to give up there history or nationality at this point in time. We have to take small steps to fully re-united us all. When it comes to the Macedonian Problem. We have Slavs(Bulgars) who have been Brainwashed by Commie Croats(Tito) into believing they are "Macedonians". The Skopjean are stealing Greek and Bulgarian History.Not to mention they are also wishing to invade and steal our lands and cause us problems claiming there are "Macedonian" Minorities inside our nations.There can not be unity unless such people are taken care of. They are a weapon for our enemies. Many Skopjean attack Slavs and Greeks. Turks are the only people who recognize FYROM as Macedonia. Before you can take any type of step for Unity inside the Balkans something must be done about the Skopjean, either Re-education of the population or enforced division of their nation.



"All people have fears, but the brave put down their fears and go forward, sometimes to death, but always to victory."
--motto of the King's Guard in ancient Greece

<: 1. Everyone must sign his or her posts, no "anonymous" postings>
Please Follow Forum Rules.....

[1] "In general, however, the Macedonian Slavs differ somewhat both in appearance and character from their neighbours beyond the Bulgarian and Servian frontiers: the peculiar type which they present is probably due to a considerable admixture of Vlach, Hellenic, Albanian and Turkish blood, and to the influence of the surrounding races."

[The 1911 Edition Encyclopedia, found online at: http://36.1911encyclopedia.org/M/MA/MACEDONIA.htm]

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[2] "These Slavs may properly be considered as a special Macedonian group, but since they were closely related to both Bulgars and Serbs and had, moreover, in the past been usually incorporated in either the Bulgar or Serb state, they inevitably became the object of both Bulgar and Serb aspirations and an apple of discord between these rival nationalities. As an oppressed people on an exceedingly primitive level, the Macedonian Slavs had as late as the congress of Berlin exhibited no perceptible national consciousness of their own."

[Ferdinand Schevill, "A History of the Balkans", p.432]

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[3] "It should be remembered, to begin with, that there is no Macedonian race, as a distinct type. Macedonians may belong to any of the races of Eastern Europe or Western Asia, as, indeed, they do. A Macedonian Bulgar is just the same as a Bulgar of Bulgaria proper, the old principality, that in October, 1908, at Tirnova, was proclaimed independent of Turkey. He looks the same, talks the same, and very largely, thinks the same way. In short, he is of the same stock."

[Arthur Douglas Howden Smith, "Fighting the Turk in the Balkans: An American's Adventures with the Macedonian Revolutionists", 1908, p. 4-5]

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[4]"We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian."

"There is some confusion about the identity of the people of this country."

[FYROM's Ambassador to Canada, Gyordan Veselinov in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, 24 February 1999]

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[5]"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians."

[FYROM'S President Mr. Kiro Gligorov, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35.]

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[6]"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That's who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia. The ancient Macedonians no longer exist, they had disappeared from history long time ago. Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century (AD)."

[FYROM'S President Mr. Kiro Gligorov, Toronto Star newspaper, March 15, 1992]

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[7]"We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great."
"We are Slavs and we speak a Slav language."

[FYROM'S Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka, 22 January 1999]

I don't agree with uniting with anyone to become One. That would mean we would give up our identity and our ethnic culture. We should not allow non-Europeans to mix with us. All this for religion? Why does man take such strides for religion? Religion is man-made. My culture comes first. I am a Hellene. To me I see the Orthodox Religion as tradition. That contradicts what religion is. You must fully believe in the religion to say you are religious. I don't look down on people for believing in religion but I just think religion gets in the way and causes unnecessary bickering.

Hail the Hellenes!

Hellenic Warrior, When we talk about Uniting, we arent talking about making our people one. We are talking about a United Front and such. Unity of Orthodox Indo-Europeans and such. I myself and i have to say Enotita also is against Non-Europeans mixing with any member-state, Greece for the Greeks, Serbia for the Serbs, and so on and so on.

So-called Macedonian nation isn't a historical ethnicity but the mutant created by communist elites after WW2. Before 1941 Slavs who inhabited area of nowadays FYRM were either Serbs or Bulgarians.
Similar practice was made about so-called Bosniaks, Montenegrins and also Croats, who are converted Serbs. Otherwise we wouldn't understand each others without a translator.

Please Remove yourself from this forum....

You're probably too young to remember the decades Slavs, Greeks, Armenians etc. WORKED AND FOUGHT together against the filthy, deadly, blood-sucking Turk. Once again we NEED the Alexandrian Empire renewed as the shield of our Original Populations of Eastern Europe and Anatolia etc. That means "We must stick together or hang separately!"

Solidarity FOREVER!

..............to communicate with Citizens of Tommorrow's Alexandrian Empire! Albanian Muslims are a danger to Serbs, Greeks and the Slavs of Macedonia. Azeri Muslims are a threat to my people (Armenians). Chechen Muslims are a threat to our brother Russia. So the conflicts and indifferences between our Alexandrian Ethnicities must VANISH and we must declare war against Islam: The SUPREME danger next to neo-Nazi-ism.

ISKENDER YOU FORGOT TO ADD COMMUNIST TRAITORS TO YOUR LIST.