I have been reading the page on Causality, Destiny, and Temporal Divergence. I do realize that this is all science fiction, and quite interesting scifi at that.

But, after reading that page (and I am about to get back to work...really!), there seems to be a paradox in logic. The author seems to be using the order of the work to use causality to prove destiny and destiny to prove (well, not so much prove but to support) the need for temporal divergence. Whereas if the normal causality is affected, destiny is affected, thus a parallel timeline has been created. (I'm just explaining what I read so that if I have it wrong, you guys can figure out where I'm wrong.)

My problem with this logic comes in that if all events of the future are destined, would not temporal disturbances be destined as well. The work clearly dictates that even muscular movements I am making now to type this posting were destined (and the fact that I just went and smoked a cigarette) from the beginning of time. As such, any temporal disturbances would have been destined (as well as their cronological effects) also from the beginning of time.

My conclusion is that if all is destined as stated, no parellel timelines would be created, there would be no such thing as changing the past, as those changes have already occurred, and were destined from the beginning. If someone did create a temporal disturbance, even one which would allow objects to be transported from one point in the timeline to another point in the timeline, that transportation, and the effects of the object at the new point in the timeline would have already been predestined. (All this, according to the logic in the work I read "Destiny, Causality, and Temporal Divergence" on the Chronos Technoogies, Inc. web site)

Joshua Hatfield
Owner/Operator
www.flobi.com

My studies have indicated to me about space and time (remember, I don't have the resources available to you in the 22nd century, especially about inter-space) that neither space nor time was built with inherent protection devices. Nothing I've ever read would indicate that the space-time continuoum would simply spawn an entire parallel dimention or timeline mearly due to a random occurance of a temporal disturbance.

I am not discounting the need to keep paradoxes from occuring. But, parallel timelines do not appear in your 9-dimentional theory diagram. I don't see why space-time would have any protection devices. After all, when you touch anti-matter to matter, don't they destroy each other (or have not you been able to trap enough anti-matter in the 22nd century to prove that)? I'm not even sure that the diagram even supports the existance of such a paradox.

From the diagram on the 9-dimentional theory it would appear that if someone altered a previous occurance, that would alter their actions in the future, but it would not negate the fact that they are existing in the past. As they are transferred in tact (with memories and all) into the past, they would continue to exist in the past regardless of their existance in the future. Of course, they might not exist in the future to have created the device, thereby destroying the temporal disturbance and removing any way for them to return to the future. It would not, however cause them to vanish from the past.

In the grandfather paradox, for instance, if you went to the past, you would at that point atomically exist in the past. No future occurance can change the fact that you exist at any given time. You destroy your grandfather. No father, no you, etc... However, your atoms would still be configured at that time when you killed him. The timeline as you remember it ceases to exist as the causes of it are no longer existant. If there were someone you left in the future, waiting for atoms to reappear, they would no longer be waiting and the temporal disturbance would be severed. However, as the atoms are still configured at that time, you would still remember your grandfather as he was when you were a child, remember your father, and remember your past as it happened before you altered the timeline. There is no paradox, simply a change in timeline.

Joshua Hatfield
Owner/Operator
www.flobi.com

Chronos,

If there was temporal divergence of timelines instead of the paradox theory then would that not mean that travellers from a parallel universe could jump into our timeline and change it as we could with theirs?

As with the example you have given on 'Paradoxes'on your site, the suicidal time traveller would go back and commit suicide therein not living in the future to go back into the past to kill himself.
However,if the suicidal time traveller went back to the past to commit suicide, surely he would have had to live in the future to change the course of events there. Therefore, he had to live in the future to go back and kill himself in the past, ultimately ceasing to exist in the future.
I find it fascinating that you know all this about time travel. Seriously, if we know so much about it, why can't anyone create such accelerators to travel back to the past?
I have a theory: You are time travellers who have come from the future to help us gain the knowledge we need to create these accelerators!!!!! No, I'm not mad really!!!!

It sounds like Flobi's idea of creating an "alternate timeline" through time travel is the same as the "divergent timeline" theory -- we just differ in the mechanics of the act of time travel.

When you step through a time gate into the past, any actions you take -- even your mere existence there -- would not have taken place in your own past, so obviously this past timeline is going to be different from your own memories. There are no "protective" forces in the Universe that prevent paradoxes, so you are free to kill your grandfather or whatever you want to do in this past timeline, just like in your own timeline.

However, Flobi believes that when you step through a time gate, it is a one-way trip, and your entire universe and everything in your future will cease to exist, so you cannot get back; you will simply exist with the constituent atoms of your body and all of your memories intact in a past time period, and everything you do will just overwrite your own history. That theory has some problems, though.

1. What if you travel one year into the past (in Flobi's single-timeline model), meet yourself, construct a time machine, then both of you go into the past together? Now you've overwritten the timeline twice, and there are now three of you. In this single timeline, you've spontaneously added about 400 pounds of new mass to the Universe, in violation of the Conservation of Matter law.

2. What if you open a time gate, stick your arm through, and wave to yourself in the past, but don't step through all the way? Will your arm remain in the past, while the rest of your body (and Universe) cease to exist? Or what if you open and close a time gate without even sending anything through? The time gate opening in the past (even without anything coming through) will create an alternate timeline, erasing your own timeline while you are still in it. If you think about it, with a time machine existing in Flobi's single-timeline Universe, just pressing the "ON" button to create a link to the past will cause the Universe to end at that instant. That is not a time machine; that is a doomsday machine.

Therefore, the only logical way you can time travel without instantly destroying the Universe is to travel into a parallel timeline.

See Using Time Gates for more details on the physical mechanics of moving through time.

The number 1. problem you have listed is just as much a problem in your theories as it is in mine. Of couse I don't see it as a problem, or law breaker. The property of the Conversion of Matter law to which I can only assume that you are referring is that there is always the same amount of matter/energy in the universe.

I didn't really see this as part of our discussion, but if you would like to discuss it, I do not mind doing that later.

You may have misinterpreted what I have said. Time is fluid. It is designed to accept change, not to hinder it. For lack of a better wording, what you do at any time creates a ripple effect, which changes the time after it. The timeline is not destroyed, just altered. And, once you alter the timeline to the point where there is no one in the future to create, open or maintain the time gate, that gate will cease to exist. Until that point, you could reenter the timeline through that gate to the point when you left (adjusting for the time you spent, of course, and the ripples you left by being in the past).

I suppose that if you created a time gate, waved at youself through the timegate and that seeing yourself wave at yourself in the past caused you not to do that in the future, then your arm may be stuck in the past being that there was no rest of you there at that point in the future to pull it back. You would not loose an arm, however, as you would not be at that location at that point in the future to do so. I do not see a logical flaw in that, and I also do not see how it would end the universe. Of course, changing the timeline to some extent will cause unpredictable things, and the more you change it, the less predictable it will be. That's one reason we don't let <a href="http://www.dailyadultjoke.com/jokes/time_travel.shtml">guys like this</a> time travel.

Joshua Hatfield
Owner/Operator
<a href="http://www.flobi.com/">www.flobi.com</a>

I agree with this response to the site's statement. If we are to follow the logical progression, then all time travel is destined from creation and all "changes" are actually actions that were meant to happen since their causes can be traced back to the beginning. Just because the other timelines do not match us in identity does not mean that they are not as they are meant to be even if events that create the timelines can be traced through different timelines. In an infinite universe you should expect an infinite amount of expressions of the singular event of creation.