After watching the boys in action last night I gotta say....I was impressed. Somebody needs to check McKneill's birth certificate because that boy doesn't play like no 16 year old. Talk about a fluid stride and some speed, that guy is going to be something to watch. Mr. McCucteon(sp?) also grabbed my attention. Nice size, great tenacity, and some serious hockey smarts. I know he cost us a 3rd rounder but what a nice addition he should be. How about JM Risk? A man on a mission. He had some great scoring opportunities and appears to have all the confidence in the world. Suggs looked great as did our 16 year olds. The other defensive standout was Gibby in my opinion. Shades of Bobby Orr out there the way he was carring the puck. I know his name has been mentioned on this board and others as potential trade material but I hope that never happens. The kid can play on my team anytime. I had heard comments lately about MacDonald's performance during training camp but I gotta tell you I didn't see much to talk about last night. I will be surprised if he makes the team and dresses on a regular basis. The new goal tender looked a bit overwhelmed last night. He is quickly realizing this ain't the USHL anymore. As a Spirit fan I was extremely pleased with what I saw last night and I can't wait for September 20th to roll around.

Wow! Thats nearly identical how I feel last nights game was. Honestly I hope they come up with something better to backup Brown. Pfligler, doesnt seem like O Material. I am not sure what they can do to get another decent goalie, so I believe that guy is here to stay.

What about the guy wearing #34 last night, Dan Miller. Where did he come from? Has anybody seen him play?

Just a couple of observations from last night and both of your comments. It seems to me if you like a guy you see one thing and if you don't like a guy you see something different. Let's not forget, it was just an exhibition game and we are still in the middle of camp. Yes the youngsters looked great. When all four newbies were in at once for the first time and they scored on the power play I thought I was going to go nuts. Now that was fun. Yes, Alex made a mistake on the game winning goal, however, it was one of very few mistakes he made. His skating has improved 100% over last year and he did a great job moving people out of the crease all night (with the one exception noted above). Not sure what you beef is with Pfligler. Let's see, Brown allows 6 goals Friday night and he is the class of the league. Pfligler allows only 3 and he can't play. What's wrong with this picture. IMO Pfligler is just what we need. A competent back up for Brown until "The Rock" is ready. As far as Miller goes, he a free agent from the now defunct Detroit Compuware team. He has been in camp all along. He won't make the team as I am sure we will only carry two goalies, but he was available for back up since Brown wasn't there. Now let's talk about Gibson. I believe all of the talk of Gibson being trade bate was based on the fact that if you are going to make trades, you need to give something to get something. Gibson did play well, but is expendable if, and only if, a deal can be made that improves the team. That is not a shot against Gibson. Just a fact in the real world of OHL hockey. I think the chances of Gibson being traded are less now that the team is taking shape with the other deals that were made. There are several situations that still need to be worked out. The O/A debate is far from over, however, I agree it looks like Dix is the odd man out right now. We still need to get something done with Kellerman also. All in all I like the way this team is shaping up and no matter what happends, these guys are going to be fun to watch.

Nobody said MB was the class of the league. Did you really watch that Pfligler play last night? He was not very sharpe. I think he faced 17, and allowed 3. The 1st goal was soft. The 2nd goale was a shot out of no where, that smoked him high. The 3rd goal was reasonable, not his fault at all. Nobody said Brown was "the class of the league" (BTW its only a sig) he did allow 6 goals..I believe alot more shots. Ive also heard he played strong until the 3rd period where he fell apart.

BPFOX, you need to take your guard down. Nobody is cutting the team down by any means. Your post comes across like your acting in defense. I am a fan just like you. Keep in mind.. a opinion is like a...well you know the rest.

My guard isn't up because it doesn't need to be. I am also not taking your opinion away from you, just disagreeing with it. Forgive me if I got the impression you were a big Mike Brown fan. Not sure where I got that Idea. Just for the record, I AM a big Mike Brown fan. I expect Mike to get the vast majority of starts this season. It will be quite different from last year's platooning situation. IMO Pfligler has been sharp in camp but I do not expect him to challenge for the #1 spot nor should you. His role will be to give Mike a rest and keep us in games when he starts. Nothing I saw last night tells me he can't do that. The first part of my post was more targeted at IB40 and his shot at Alex MacDonnell. This has been going on for some time now. I make no excusses for being a big MacDonnell fan. My point being, when a guy makes great strides in improving his game, he should be given credit for that. Some people have a hard time doing that. "The guy is bad and all I see is the flaws" kind of thing. Remember even our over agers are just kids. I tend to see the positives in people. Both of the posts I was responding to were very negative. Pehaps you might want to re-read these posts again, including your own, and you might just get a different impression of just who is being defensive.

I didn't mean to give the impression that your post were all negative. They were not, and overall were positive about the team. I was refering to the comments about MacDonnell & Pfligler specifically. I should have been more clear. Sorry.

I don't believe my initial post was mean spirited just because I didn't give MacDonell and the new goal tender rave reviews. If you notice the post was titled "first impressions" not "the gospel". I realize the new goal tender is young and is going through a transition period but I still stand by my initial assessment that he looked overwhelmed last night. Based on the kids credentials I'm sure in time, he will settle down and become a capable back-up for Brown. As for MacDonell, I'm sure he is a great kid with a good head on his shoulders but (in my opinion) I simply did not see any improvement in his game from when I last watched him play back in March.

I want to make one thing perfectly clear. I am one of the biggest friggin supporters of this franchise you will ever find.......ever. That will not however, sway me from offering an honest opinion on things even if it may strike a nerve with other posters.

I loved the game all except for one thing.. its hard to follow when the guys didnt have names on jerseys.i figured out the rizk brothers, especially j.m rizk being in the box more than i considered enough. What was up with plymouths #6 and #7 ?? huge chips on shoulders or what?? now, about the concessions, HOLY COW !!!im not going to stand in a line and miss a half a period of hockey for $6.50 pizza..no way!!!! please tell me that during the reg. season more concession stands will be open.... also, HEY TRINA, what section do you sit in????

Bpfox, Ib40 and Eyedeya you all need to take a chill pill. In reading the first three posts I saw nothing that should have leaded to the barrage of attacks that took place thereafter. We all have our opinions and guess what, some are going to be different than others.

With that said, here's mine:
Pfliger, He was definitely overwhelmed at first, after all, first start in the O and in front of 1700+ people. Probably the largest crowd he has ever played for. I think he settled down in the second, I was sitting right behind him and he stoned two Plymouth players that had excellent shots. He also seemed to move pretty quick. Given some time, as mentioned above, he'll be a good back up.

McDonnell, I can't help it, I try to like this kid. He is very pleasant, but I counted 4 times in the second period that he did not clear the front of the net and some good scoring chances were had for Plymouth. His skating has improved, I agree, but I just think that if an OA has to go, it should be him. Sorry BP but I think Dix brings us some better Physical ability and with all the young guys on this team we need that.

Pyatt, Suggs, McNeill and Asselin (probably didn't spell any of those right). I was totally impressed with the play of all of them. Pyatt especially, I mean really, show up Sat. morning, score a goal Sat. night. He fit right in as if he had been with the team all along. Suggs has been my favorite throughout camp, I see great things from him in the future.

Gibson, Great kid. I had the opportunity to sit and talk with him and Mr. Blair at the awards banquet, really a class act. As for his play, I have always felt that he was one of our better defencemen. Biz. has never really impressed me as much as he apparently has impressed others so I have felt that Gibby is right up there with Biz. in the top of our defensive core.

Misc. was I dreaming or... does Mike Pain's skating look 200% better than last year? Did the Price kid look like he was skating like a 2nd year player???

All in all I too was totally satisfied with the game and Denis and Jamey have their work cut out for them whittling this team down.

what can u say...say one bad thing about the MAC and bp gets all foxy with you. it would be a big mistake to cut dix and keep mac as a 3rd OA. Dix didn't play disciplined Friday against Plymouth - that's when the coaching staff needs to tell players to calm down.

Memo to coaching staff: When players make mistakes, TELL THEM WHAT THEY DID WRONG. Don't call them a PIECE OF CRAP and not help them improve. I won't lie, I'm concerned this coaching staff can improve over last year. I'm sure Dick Garber knows this, they've got improved talent and a very promising 2nd year goalie. I'm sure he also knows the coaching staff completely lost this team after Christmas. Keep an eye not only on their record but on the special teams as well - 20th and 20th and 20th even at the 15 game mark and it's time to swing the axe. I don't care who's friends with whom, I've seen this team four times now this summer and there's no excuse not to make the playoffs. That's my rant but this year's first 15 games are on the coaches with 9 of the first 12 games at home, they'd better hit the target early, they won't and shouldn't get a 2nd chance the rest of the way. Cruel business, but winning is the bottom line.

BP, you're always defensive. It's no more your little board than anyone else's. Can't wait for the long diatribe with numerous spelling and grammatical errors to come forth. Always entertaining. You also suggested they'd finish ahead of the Greyhounds and Otters and finish 6th. 10 teams in the conference, not 9.

That last post was uncalled for. BP did seem defensive to me, but I didnt pretty much call him out like you just did. If you want to be negative like that, why even come here to post?

You seem like your the most defensive in the thread. Yea MacDonnel hasnt impressed you or I, but has Dix? I think maybe Konstadine can take over the punching duties, maybe he can maybe he cant. The coaching staff has a tough choice to make.

Your what they would call a Bleecher Ceature, you think you know more then you do.

First you say I'm on the attack with my post...then you call me "defensive"? How do you figure? Not being negative. This team has great potential on the ice. Do you think this team was well-coached last year down the stretch? If you only knew. Maybe that's the issue, how little you do know.

Wow, I can't believe how sensative people have become over the summer. Toughen up folks, it's along season. Just remember, it's no fun having a discussion with someone who agrees with you. I sincerely appologize to any who were offended now and in the future. Hey Bill, glad your back. I thought maybe you died over the summer. First of all, you would pick Dix and I would pick MacDonnell, fair enough. Question is, who will the Spirit pick. My life won't be over either way. I must say your last paragraph has me stumped. First of all, personal attacks, come on Bill your better than that. I never make spelling or gramatical mistakes, my keyboard does. I tell it what to write but sometimes my fingers and the keyboard turn on me...go figure. As for your last sentence, now that has me stumped. What post are you talking about. By the way, your math sucks too. For Saginaw to finish 6th and only be ahead of two teams that would mean there were only 8 teams not 9. Having said that, I do think Saginaw will finish 3rd in the West ahead of the Soo and Windsor. I don't recall ever predicting who they would finish ahead of in the Mid-West. Where did you see that post. I am kind of old and forgetfull so I would never say you were wrong, I just don't remember it. Anyway welcome back!

WOW i luv this board and all it's anger. It's great reading what some of the OHL experts have to say on here. I thind some of these posts are really disturbing lol and some make good points.

the good points:

Yes the concession line does suck, but if the team improves I might be able to make it though a game sober, and not have to stand in line for half a period.

OHL91 i share ur concerns about the head coach, however i think hicks is a good assistant.

the disturbing points:

All the talk about the overagers and who will make the team and the great strides that MacDonnell has made. When the other teams make there cuts both Mac and Dixs will probably be gone. Fox Mac is bad and it is hard not to see his flaws as he is showing the whole arena them. Other then Dixs work eithic i see no reason keeping him either.

Eyedeya its been one pre season game and you were able to determine that we need another goalie, good thing for theres more then one preseason game.

And finally the most distrubing commit yet came from Sparkey comparing Gibson to Biz. Im not even going to go into detail about that one, anyone who knows hockey can clearly see the diffence between the two.

I must respectfully disagree with you. I have read and re-read all of these posts. I didn't notice any anger on anyone's part. I did notice some disagreement in the area of team make-up. Everyone is welcome here to express themselves and their opinions. Like I have said many times, it is no fun having a arguement with people who agree with you. I appreciate your position on Dix and MacDonnell and you could very well be right. If you were to go back and read all of my posts you will find that I never once said MacDonnell was a great player. It is clear that he isn't. Now having said that I also believe there is no such thing as and overage player who "is" a great player. The great players leave this league before they reach their over age year. My point has alway been when it comes to Dix and MacDonnell is that this is a very young team and the coaches are going to have their hands full with the new young players. The last thing they need is a whole new crop of overage players they know nothing about. They are only going to keep 3 and as far as I know they only have 4 now. So who is the odd man out? My guess is it is between Dix and Kostantine(sp?) Both guys would fill the same roll. Based on what Dennis said the other day on the radio it looks to me like he is leaning towards Dix. MacDonnell stays not because of his talent, but rather the position he plays. Does this mean he won't get bumped later on, no. All I am saying is I believe he will be in the lineup on opening day. And this is just my opinion.

Let's see where do I begin, Qualifications, I have played hockey since 1975, coached youth hockey for 4 years and scouted the OHL from 1991 to 1999 for Kingston. I have seen some of the best players in the OHL and I am here to say, your beloved Biz needs a lot of work. I'm not saying he's not the best player on the team and my comment about Gibby was he's right up there with him, not better than him, maybe not quite as good but up there. Now, from where do I derive my opinion? First I sit at the ends of the arena up high so that I can see the plays develop both ways and most importantly how the players skate. Take a seat at the next game, in the ends, and watch biz skate, he takes short wide strides and he tires easily. When he tires he takes even shorter strides. Any power skating student can tell you that short strides start you off and then you transition into longer strides. Also, watch Mr. biz when he is up against a puck carrier, he swashes his stick back and forth rather than standing up and taking the body. His eyes are on the puck and not the player. Any high school coach can tell you to take the body 'cause the puck can't score by itself. He also needs to clear the net better as do most of our D men. I think he has great vision of the ice and what's going on, he can create clean breakout passes and he has great leadership capabilities. but he does need to work on those things mentioned above. I suspect that is why he was selected farther down in the draft than most people thought he would go. Hopefully he can take heart to the recommendations of some of the Spirit staff (many of those same things I mentioned) and have a better year.

Come on they are going to have new young players every year, that doesnt mean you keep your overages if you can get better one. If there is no true such thing as a true great overager then what was Jamie Johnson or Chad LaRose last year just average. Does three realy make a crop. If we could get two new players to improve the team it doesn't make any sense not to do that. And if they don't I think Dixs would stay because he can play any position and works hard.

I guess i was wrong about Biz, but hey thats ok so was central scouting i guess. You must have good eyes to be able to see where he is looking. You can see his eyes from the other end of the ice and your way up in the nose bleeds wow thats impressive.

I love it...."there is no such thing as a great overage player"...

Chad Larose - great player. Again - you are wrong. Can't wait for BP MacDonell to now couch his argument by saying "it's only my opinion, there can't be any right or wrong opinions". Yes there can. Chad Larose - great player for the Whalers last year. Trevor Daley - great defenceman for the Greyhounds. Adam Chapman - not great overage player. BP Mac calls out people when he thinks they're wrong, then they challenge him, and he notes "it's only my opinion".

Kind of similar to the concept that OHL teams NEVER carry two overage goalies on their roster. I admit as I did then that it's rare and I don't really count Saginaw's situation...but when Sarnia open their season with Robert Gherson and Ryan Munce, please make a note of it, as I told you they would.

I'm superman!!!!
Um, I mean SuperSparky!!!!

You cant be serious! There is no such thing as a great overager. If they are a great player then why are they still playing Junior Hockey as a 20yr old? I can tell you why, because they are not a GREAT hockey player. Now, I am not saying Chad Larose is not a good hockey player...but great..i think not. There is no such thing as a great overager, there are good overagers for sure...no GREAT overagers.

BTW..Munce is a '85. Overagers this year are '83's. Just so you know.

This thread is getting SO old.......

I hope to god u all a kidding, LaRose mad it to the final cuts for the red wings the past two year, but he's just a good hockey player, he also had more goals then the top two scores for the spirits combined. To say LaRose was not a great player last year is saying you know nothing about talent or the game. What do u consider a great player then, get a clue.

This board has been too dull for too long...thanks all for participating! Let me address each one of you individually if I may.

McCartySux: Yes you are right, there will be young players every year, however, no OHL team in recent memory has had so many first and second year players who will be counted to contribute on a regular basis. Most 16 year olds get very littly playing time in this league. That will not be the case here in Saginaw. I never said you could not improve your team with over-age players. What I said was that I did not believe Saginaw would make it a high priority. If you go back from the very begining you will notice I said we would keep two overagers from last years team and pick up a third. So far my prediction still holds true. Could I be wrong, absolutely!

Bill: Do you ever get anything right? I have never said anything about a team having two over-age goalies. What I said was they won't keep two NHL drafted goalies. Guess what, they didn't. I know Kellerman hasn't been traded yet, but he is also no longer with the team.

Sparky: Yes you are superman! I have always enjoyed your posts. I believe them to be well thought out and informative. I know we sometimes disagree but that's ok.

EyeDeEa: Thanks for getting my point about great over-age players. I stand by my position that the great players never play an overage year in the OHL. Does that mean there aren't any very good over age players? Clearly not. Being the best of what's left after all the good 20 year olds sign pro contracts and are playing in a high league does not make you a great player. Please let's not lower the bar for greatness for to do that will cause us to not appreciate true greatness when it comes our way.

SaginawGensFan: I think it's just starting to get fun.

Finally, I just love a spirited debate. Thank you all for participating.

None of u have a clue

May I call you Fox? anyway, Yes, we can all disagree. I know that you tend to break down your posts well and present your case much like I do and provide your reasoning. Your posts are usually well though out and up-beat, keep up the good work. I have been monitoring both, this site and the Noof but keeping my posts to a minimum due to time constraints. Things are slowing down a bit so I'm ready to hit the keys again. Can't wait till the 20th!!!!

so why dont we all get tags or something so we can identify eachother around the arena. like maybe a pin with our login names on them if we ever happen to meet up with eachother around the arena or in the blue line club..