What needs to be done? This is getting too predictable every game! Another blown lead. Is it time to move more players??? Who belongs here & who doesn't?

The new coach has had 2-practices and 2-games to work with these kids and assess the team as a whole. I certainly wasn't expecting big things this weekend. Mantha needs practice time with these guys to break some old habits and instill his own system/philosophy. I was able to attend the game in Sarnia last night and felt the team played pretty decent.....all things considered. The next few weeks will give us a better feel for what this team needs.

Mantha is going to need time to learn the guys and what they are capable of doing and then address their problems areas accordingly. I just think they are running out of time. If they go 0-3 this weekend, they are in a very difficult position with then only 50 games left. I figure they will need an absolute minimimum 21 more wins to make the playoffs, but most likely 25 wins since the Western Conference is so strong this year. Does it look like this team can play .500 over the last 50 games? I doubt it, but you never know. Having not seen them play yet for Moe, it does sound as though they are playing a little better; at least scoring some goals.

I was in Sarnia & listened to their team's post-game radio show. They blamed the last two goals on Pfligler. They were down in the other end from where I was sitting so I did not have a clear look.

However, turnovers were also suspect. And, we had several doorstep chances throughout the game that we could not score on.

No one on this team seems capable of scoring a garbage goal.

The wraparound goals on Pfligler were great individual efforts by two pretty talented 20 year olds in Sisca and Tenute. I don't blame him for them...anytime you allow wraparound goals, it's pretty obvious there are breakdowns somewhere else on the ice, or you wouldn't have loads of time behind the net to make the wraparound work. Pfligler played well and he's less to blame for the less than other teammates.

The only coaching issue I question is why Sunderman was on the ice in a 3-3 tie on the road with 8 minutes left.

I know Moe Mantha will help this team dramatically but I also feel players just aren't carrying their weight. Rizk took the stupidest penalty I've ever seen by hooking that guy down with 2 minutes to go which prevented us from even getting the extra attacker out. Just embarrassing. Rizk either needs to be sat or (get ready...) dealt. It isn't working here right now, and there's becoming little evidence to suggest it'll ever work. Teams don't always hit the jackpot on their high 1st round picks - but I don't blame Costa for drafting him, Rizk scored 8 goals in the first 2 1/2 months last season, then scored New Year's Eve and has one goal since in 30 plus games. That penalty didn't cost us the game against Sarnia but it cost us any chance of getting back into it. I'd rather see Pyatt or Asselin get his time Friday instead. If we can't beat Belleville without him, the entire season's a lost cause anyway. Then, he's fresher for the Whalers, we need to win at least one of those.

As for goaltending, I'd come back with Brown Friday, let Pfligler play Saturday on the road again, and bring Brown back Sunday afternoon. Although, I'll tell you this much, Brown's body language in goal sucks and if I was involved with the Bruins at all, I'd be telling him to knock that crap off. Name one NHL goalie who goes as cuckoo as he does when he lets a goal in. At the Owen Sound game after the 1st goal - he skated over to the boards and ax-chopped his stick against the boards. His teammates are going to resent that act REAL fast. I hate saying this, because I backed Brown all last season, but maybe he mentally doesn't have the confidence to succeed in this league. I hope though, that he does.

Bissonette looked like rubbish Saturday night as well. He had double the giveaways of any other defenceman. He's well worth dealing by January if he keeps this play up because his rep around the league is much better than his play has been. If we're not going to the playoffs, there's no sense in keeping him. Gibson, I would keep because he can be an OA this year, and he's been our nicest surprise this year.
Mike Suggs has been a great 17 year old rookie as well. That was a great effort to capitalize on Munce's mistake. He doesn't seem to grip like Rizk or Raszka does around the night. Think less, boys! Good things will happen.

Anyway, it's all over Friday night if we don't win. No playoffs. Period. After this weekend, 11 of Saginaw's next 18 games are on the road. That could spell trouble.

Of course, I think we'd be over .500 if we'd just kept MacDonell -- he was our best defensive defenceman. Oh wait, that's not my line.

You know, I agree with Bill about Rizk. It's about time we see something the same. Also, I think Biz looks terrible this year. Perhaps he just isn't happy with Saginaw. If I were on a team with our track record, I hate to say it but I'd be doing everything I could to get traded and at least have a shot at the cup. Remember this is all just opinion.

"Name one NHL goalie who goes as cuckoo as he does when he lets a goal in."

...Ed Belfour.

exactly.

Ron Hextall

Right on with Hextall, but I can go back a little farther & come up with maybe the craziest ever... Billy Smith!

I did ask for current ones...but you guys are all correct. But think about that...at one point - each goalie was considered the BEST in his field and could almost get away with that. Not the case if you tend goal for the 19th best team in the OHL (record-wise). Does anyone remember when Hextall attacked Chelios at the end of the Habs/Flyers 88 playoff series - that was the best!

Bottom line is, Mike Brown, we love you - you're our #1 goalie and a fan favorite. Stop cracking your stick over the net. Stop chasing after referees disputing good goals. Stop shaking your head like you're Patrick Roy - a ton of NHL wins later, you might be. Don't give opposition shooters any more INCENTIVE to make you look bad by scoring on you. Teams want to get inside your head. Don't let them.

..maybe the "C" is putting too much pressure on him..too much attention..he is a good defenceman in a funk...He and Brown are centrepiece drafts right now and maybe there's a bit of a letdown now that they are over their draft year.Is Biz a team leader at this point? Maybe he should just be one of the soldiers.There will have to be a quick turnaround or more moves will be coming..If Dick Garber canned a chum I'm sure he'd push for some other bodies to be moved..There's a price to be paid for going with so much youth and giving the ice time to first year players both last year and this.It will pay off in the future but that means a season like last year and this year so far...

At this point I'm wondering if Gibson should be the captain..

I know Gibson is wowing everyone with his play this year, but off ice he is a little weasel. Gibson loves the limelight. He loves "performing" for the crowd and to be honest the guys think he's nothing more than a joke. I'll give it to him he's played decent hockey this year and has surprised many of us, however, his relationship with the guys stinks.

In my opinion he tries way too hard and makes a fool out of himself. Yes, deserves an A but NOT a C. He's not a leader just wants the attention the C would give him. I vote for the guys that quietly earn the respect of their fellow players and don't crave the publicity the C will give them and can handle the job of leading a team.

The "C" should have gone to Adam Strugeon. This guy battles every single game, night in and night out. He is an older player whom guys respect and look up to. I think he often gets overlooked because he was not drafted. Seems like politics played a role in the choice this year. If it were up to Dick Garber, he would have Razska as "C"

Are you a great leader because you can hit people during a game? Isn't that part of being a defenseman? Sturgeon hasn't played well all year. I heard he doesn't even like playing. He doesn't want to do anything thing with the guys off the ice. To busy with the girl friend. His participation in public appears is because he doesn't go to school so the team makes him stay busy. That doesn't sound like a leader to me. Adam Gibson has the time in the league, he didn't sit out a year. He leads by example at practice and during the games. He is available to the fans and presents himself well at all times. He sounds like the quite leader the team needs. But I guess the public will never know the inside workings of the team and how they deal with each other because we're not in the locker room. Who picks the captains, the coach or the guys?

It would be helpful if you post the facts and not the hearsay. Sturgeon IS going to school and he does want to play hockey. There may be more dynamics to the situation than what you're aware of. You don't know what is going on behind the scenes and what these guys deal with that none of us know about.

I'm glad to see Gibson has a fans. He's just not one of my favorite players.

I'm the first to admit I don't know what the guys are going thru other than what I have heard from the few that I have talked to. But unlike most I don't say I "know" them when I only have general conversations with some of them. From what I've heard only the player, their family and the people they stay with here in town "know" them. Everyone else exaggerates their contacts with the guys. And I'm sure they wouldn't like any of the people that really know them coming on a board and talk about thing they've heard in confidence, That would be wrong. So I hope the "Gibson is a weasel" came from a personnel contact you had with Adam because that's a pretty nasty thing to say about someone you don't know or only heard about thru someone else. If he did something to you then you have a right to say something. If not that kind of personnal attack is wrong. They're just guys playing hockey the best they can.

I guess you should pay a little more attention to what you are saying too! If you don't know the players why are you saying things about Sturgeon that you've heard. That wasn't exactly the nicest comment that he hasn't played well all season and to peg him as a bully. You make it sound there is nothing more to his game hitting players.

I do have some insight into the players and as I said I don't care for Gibson just as you don't seem to care for Sturgeon. Gibson has rubbed me the wrong way on more than one occasion and no that's not just something I've heard.

So if you don't think I should be making negative comments about players then maybe you shouldn't either. It works both ways.

I was only voicing my opinion. And for the record...Sturgeon is a great kid, extremely sensitive, level headed, honest and hardworking both on and off the ice. He is sincere and does genuinely care about the team and has a great relationship with the guys. He doesn't have his off time filled up with promo's because he doesn't go to school, he truly enjoys his promo time at the schools because he loves the kids and loves sharing time with them. No one forces him to go and he never ever complains about going! Last year after the season ended he spent several weeks working daily in a third grade classroom giving of his time.

I know these things for a FACT!

I guess I was wrong when I said players family members ( in Canada or the families they live with) would not come on a board like this and give out confidential information. Sturgeon apparently doens't like Adam Gibson and has told you. It would be awful hard to get that kind of inside information just from watching the guys skate. So now the team, because we know they read this board, knows it too. That's to bad. The guys have a right to not get along out side the rink as long as they can work together. That is made more difficult when people whom they confide in make things like that public. The guys are going thru a hard time and need each other more than ever. Adam Gibson has been with this team for four years and is a big part of it. He is having a great year and can help the team. It's okay to protect your own. And I guess you got defensive when someone critized one of yours but don't take it out on Adam Gibson. Talking about the way any of the guys play hockey is what this board is about. Personal attacks on the guy ie..Weasel is mean and not needed. And if a player has a beef with another and tells a family member they should respect that it's said in confidence and not post it on some board.

Please don't put words into Adam Sturgeons mouth. This has absolutley nothing to do with him, this has to do with MY opinion and not his.

yeah. But this is over for me it's destructive

Point #1: I know hockey-queen, and she is not a billet. She knows Sturgeon, but for another reason. I know why, but I won't comment on that.

Point #2: Sturgeon won the team's collegiate scholastic player of the month award for October, so obviously, he is going to school, and not only is he going to school, but doing a very good job at it.

Point #3: At this point I feel I must somewhat apologize for my slightly uninformed train of thought musing about Gibson being captain.

Gibson is having a good year, that is true. However, his performance on the ice, in terms of goals, are only meeting (not exceeding) expectations, at least the ones I set at the beginning of the year. He is on pace for roughly the same number of goals (15) that I thought he would score this season. So, by comparison to the offensive output of his teammates, most of whom are currently behind expectations, Gibson is looking very good, when in reality, he is one of the few producing at the level he is expected to be.

However, my then-uninformed self seemed to think that not only was Gibson the best offensive defenseman on the ice, that he was holding his own defensively as well. This notion died when I actually looked at statistics. Based on ice time, even strength goals allowed, etc., Gibson is doing as well as Bissonette, and McNeill are. They all allow roughly 1.2 minuses (meaning, goals scored against while on the power play or at even strength) per game, while Sturgeon allows half that many (0.6). Misharin is somewhere around 1.5 (and by the way, deserves a night off at some point), and Pain and Kozak have sort-of skewed numbers because they haven't had much time.

I also thought that Sturgeon shouldn't be the captain (and by default, Gibson should be) because I thought he took too many undisciplined penalties. His PIMs are really inflated because he got the 2+5+10 instigator package in a game against Kitchener because he fought & stood up for one of our guys who had been hit from behind. He really hasn't taken too many undisciplined penalties.

I've talked to Adam, and there is a quietness about him, but on the ice, a determination and a sense of leadership. I may have also leaned towards Gibson before because he has been with the team longer, but that really shouldn't be a criteria.

After taking a real hard look at the facts, I was wrong to ignore Sturgeon, perhaps pressure should be removed from Bissonette, and Sturgeon should be made team captain. Nothing against Gibson, other people have their impressions about him, I do not know him that well. He is having a solid year.

I would like to apologize for jumping to uninformed conclusions earlier and I hope I didn't upset anyone (i.e. hockeyqueen) too much with what I said. One of those off the cuff remarks that seemed to have spawned an entirely new can of worms.

OK everyone, back to your name-calling and back-stabbing. I'll be on the noof.

If we had 20 guys who "tries too hard" as he does we would be making memorial cup plans in November.

Every single game i go to they LOSE.
They need to practice More.
They should have good players Geoff Platt.
Marissa

Marissa

DON'T ANYONE SAY A WORD!!!

Without sounding like a puckbunny, I agree. We should have more players like Geoff Platt on the team, he can score goals.

It doesn't take someone with a math minor from a well respected state university and a love for hockey statistics to tell you that our #1 problem is scoring goals. We are on pace to allow much fewer goals than last year, but we are also on pace to actually score **fewer!** goals than last year.

Meaning, on these nights when we can put 4 goals up, we cannot break down on defense. And, on nights when our defense is great as usual, we cannot go goalless or score only one.

Puckbunny!