I read each and every one of these so-called rebuttals. Why are you guys supporting IDRF anyway? they are exploiting poor people by using Hinduism as an excuse. Hinduism is being endangered by these fanatics, so it makes no sense to support their false agenda.
The rebuttals are only calling people names and accusing people of ridiculous things. any neutral person reading them can clearly see that they are silly compared to the meticulous report.
As Hindus we need to stop acting like a mob and think clearly about these things and not blindly support IDRF just because someone says they are 'pro Hindu,' which they are not. Even rajneesh claimed to be pro-hindu okay. will you support him or someone like him?
Of course, you read all this and still pretend it is nothing (because your hatered for Hindus and/or India blinded your eyes and/or thinking).
Vinay
Dear Shankar
January 27 2003, 3:37 PM
>read each and every one of these so-called rebuttals. > Why are you guys supporting IDRF anyway?
Because they are supporting good work in India. Because I know personally American borns who have gone and visited the projects which IDRF supports and are impressed by their committment .
>they are exploiting poor people by using Hinduism as >an excuse.
Compare this with your later statement that IDRF is not pro Hindu...and its wonderful to read ur statements - service=exploitation!
If u help poor u are exploiting
And if you do not help poor, then will be the next statement - "Hindus do not take care of poor"
Its like the anti-hindu logic
When tribals riot with Muslims, they are Hindu
But when Christians go to convert them, they are non-Hindu!
>Hinduism is being endangered by these fanatics, so it >makes no sense to support their false agenda.
There is no agenda but service. Go see the schools for yourselves. And time will prove whos endangering Hinduism
>The rebuttals are only calling people names and >accusing people of ridiculous things.
When some one accuses you of something, the motive of the person is important to know. That's why many rebuttals deal with the author's biases. But if you see in the resources page of http://www.letindiadevelop.org
you will see a lot of mistakes in the report being analysed . The church run Miraj medical center being classified as RSS, Hindutva, another school brabded as RSS being started by Swissaid etc etc
>any neutral person reading them can clearly see that >they are silly compared to the meticulous report.
"Meticulous report"? That explains it all. Cutting and pasting stuff from IDRF site and misinterpreting it is not report. I challenge you to come up with points from the report which PROVES IDRF funded hate/riots
To give you another example of who is silly. The so calles "meticulous" report has criticised ekalvidyalayas as a hate mongering, hindutvisation project. Go see for yourself who are the trustees of Ekalvidyalaya (http://www.ekalvidya.org ) . Includes former US Ambassador Abid Hussain, former Chief Justice of India, former Ambassador to UK, Founder Chairman is the Chairman of MODI Corp and so on!
>As Hindus we need to stop acting like a mob and think >clearly about these things and not blindly support >IDRF just because someone says they are 'pro Hindu,' >which they are not.
IDRF is pro-humanity, but not a minority appeasement charity . Simple as that
> Even rajneesh claimed to be pro-hindu okay. will you > support him or someone like him?
What's the relevance? People follow actions, not words. More over we are talking about Charities not cult leadres.
Vinay
Shankar Jaganath
regarding rebuttals:-
January 28 2003, 8:14 AM
The report clearly states that the idrf funds groups like vanavasi kalyan ashram, which is directly involved in violent activities against christians and muslims in the tribal regions. so-called 'swami' ashimanand is the main culprit named in the report. his activities are funded by idrf.
How dare anyone challenge my Sanatana Hindu identity by claiming that i am faking it? do you want to challenge me on questions of vedantic philosophy, or even nyaya or yoga? I teach Vedantic philosophy for a living, and practice and teach Hatha Yoga, so dont dare me to smash your silly arguments, because I will do it with pleasure.
You fellows(and unfortunately some ladies as well) are acting like parrots. anyone who disagrees with idrf you call all kinds of names and insult them even if they are hindus. in this way i guarantee you, more and more hindus like me will be convinced that idrf and its supporters are nothing but fanatics with no sense of respect for anyone except their own blind supporters.
anyway your responses are contradictory:
1) idrf is not sectarian (you claim "There is no agenda but service." )
2) "IDRF is pro-humanity, but not a minority appeasement charity" --which means it is a MAJORITY or Hindus only organization.
by the way, what the hell do you have against minorities? because this is what proves theat you guys on this forum support idrf AND show a lot of hate for minorities. That itself proves that IDRF is not a innocent organization doing 'charity' as you claim. It is tied up with the haters and the hateful people who kill innocents and claim they are doing this for Hinduism.
Real Hindus can never accept the evil actions done like this.
You are forgetting the most important scriptural injunction of Hindus:
"Sarve janaaha sukino bhavantu" May ALL people gain happiness.
Sankar Jaganath
Hyderabad
Jay Bhavani
Impostor..
January 28 2003, 9:22 AM
Indians or NRIS are not stupid as you hoped.
Instead of slandering a renowned charity, you and your sabrang goons need to introspect a little, or move to your dreamland (aka pakiland), NOW.
for the rest:
_____________________________________________________
Please donate to IDRF. http://www.IDRF.org
PS: They accept used cars also.
Vinay
dear "Yogi"
January 28 2003, 10:53 AM
>The report clearly states that the idrf funds groups >like vanavasi kalyan ashram, which is directly >involved in violent activities against christians and >muslims in the tribal regions. so-called 'swami' >ashimanand is the main culprit named in the report. >his activities are funded by idrf.
There is no proof for VKA involved in any kind of violence. Its just a media created myth .
"Premi (19 Jan 97) - Bhajan mandals etc.. indicate religious
teaching but what is the proportion of secular vs. religious
teaching? Looks like there is substantial emphasis on
secular education ......we must keep in mind the culture in
Maharashtra which encourages satsangh centers etc."
Now, Swami ASsimanananda- do u know his crime? He reconverted people! and more over IDRF did not give funds for reconversion project. There is no record of them giving money to him. Only mention that he was involved with VKA. Guilt by association principle.
You call this proof?
Ekal Vidyalayas are also associated with VKA . and Dr Abid Hussain is a trustee. So u call him a hate monger?
Speak sense Mister
To add on, since u claim to b from Hyd, go and ask "Pulla Reddy's Sweets" . Its an all India famous store. They will take u to Ekal Vidyalayas. why don't u do that and see for urself ?
>How dare anyone challenge my Sanatana Hindu identity >by claiming that i am faking it? do you want to >challenge me on questions of vedantic philosophy, or >even nyaya or yoga? I teach Vedantic philosophy for a >living, and practice and teach Hatha Yoga, so dont >dare me to smash your silly arguments, because I will >do it with pleasure.
Who ever challenged that? who ever talked about vedanta? u were called a psec
To call the SFH report "meticulous" I think u deserve it
and if u were really a practiotiuoner of Hinduism, u won't have this outburts- u shud have been a Sthithaprajna as per Gita
>idrf and its supporters are nothing but fanatics with >no sense of respect for anyone except their own blind >supporters.
U are free to assume whatever u want. We have people convinced of the good work of IDRF. After the SFH campaign the idrf group membership increased from 20 to 450 . Thanks to people like you
>anyway your responses are contradictory:
>1) idrf is not sectarian (you claim "There is no >agenda but service." )
>2) "IDRF is pro-humanity, but not a minority >appeasement charity" --which means it is a MAJORITY >or Hindus only organization
Can u show me how they are contradictory. Minority non-appeasement does not mean only Majority. Don't u even have the brains to understand that? IDRF did not help the Gujarat riot victims. But it did not help the Godhra victims either. If it had only helped Muslim rit victims , its Minority appeasement . Do u get it Mr "Yogi"?
Alright, talk about RSS, read this article and see for urselves whether they help only Hindus..
>by the way, what the hell do you have against >minorities?
This is exactly why u shud be called a psec. None said they have anything against minorities. But against Minority appeasement yes. Includes the Hajpayee govt who incresed the Haj subsidy 16 times after getting votes in the name of removing it
>because this is what proves theat you guys on this >forum support idrf AND show a lot of hate for >minorities. That itself proves that IDRF is not a >innocent organization doing 'charity' as you claim. >It is tied up with the haters and the hateful people >who kill innocents and claim they are doing this for >Hinduism.
proves to be a psec again. U are reading oppossing minority appeasement as hatred top Minority . What a Yogi. can't even get the point...
>"Sarve janaaha sukino bhavantu" May ALL people gain
> happiness.
Exactly. But then the minority appeasement is when u say
Minorities shud be given more care because they are the "weaker child" . Do u geddit?
Those who view the saffron Sangh only with jaundiced eyes may argue that in the above cases the RSS entered the fray merely because Hindus were the sufferers. Well, look then at the Sangh's role in the Bihar famine of 1966, floods in Bharatpur district of Rajasthan in May 1977, the Andhra Pradesh cyclone in November 1977, the Yamuna floods near Delhi in 1978, the Morvi Dam disaster in August 1979, the Assam riots in February 1983, the Bhopal Gas tragedy in December 1984, the Gujarat drought in 1987-88, the Kerala train tragedy near Quilon in July 1988, the Uttar Kashi earthquake in UP in October 1991, the Latur earthquake in Maharashtra in 1993, the plague epidemic in Surat in 1994, the mid-air collision disaster of Saudi Arab and Kazak aircraft at Charkhi-Dadri in Haryana, in November 1996, the fire tragedy in HPCL's refinery at Vishakhapatnam in September 1997 and the Champa train accident in Madhya Pradesh in 1997. In each of these, the Sangh was the first to come with succour.
Details of each such instance would consume too much space. Proof of it all should come from the words of leaders and the press.
Inaugurating one famine relief centre at Nawda, near Gaya, during the Bihar famine, Jayaprakash Narayan said on February 6, 1967: "None, not even the prime minister of the country can equal the selfless service of the swayamsevaks of RSS."
In the midst of the Andhra cyclone relief work, Indira Gandhi chided the Congressmen that 'I see only RSS men work in the affected area.' And The Hindu of Chennai reporting on the work there of the RSS cadres wrote "The real heroes of the relief operations are these young men and women from different parts of the country who have gone there as a matter of conscientious duty, responding promptly to the call of their leaders for selfless service in an area that is quite remote from their homes." And on March 22, 1978, then Andhra chief minister Chenna Reddy, said "What the RSS is doing today, the government will be doing tomorrow."
During the Morvi disaster that occurred during Ramzan, the Sangh provided nearly 4,000 Muslims, lodged in relief camps, with necessary facilities to go through their religious rites without break even for a single day, with food being cooked for them in the early hours of the day and served to them before sunrise. No wonder Tughlak of Chennai wrote: 'People in Morvi look upon swayamsevaks as Gods!' And The Hindustan Times wrote 'Apart from manning scores of relief camps and helping the residents move back to their houses, RSS volunteers have been removing and cremating dead corpses that nobody else would touch. Service to humanity and alleviation of the sufferings of uprooted countrymen is an endeavour that admits of no ideological or partisan considerations.'
About the Kerala tragedy caused by 14 bogies of Island Express plunging into the Ashtamudi lake, Matrubhoomi wrote 'While all others were hesitant and stood closing their nostrils, the swayamsevaks of the RSS volunteered to remove the decomposed bodies submerged in the backwaters.'
Thus, what was witnessed in Gujarat last fortnight was only a replay of an RSS activity. It is ironic that almost exactly a year ago BJP's political allies and opponents alike succeeded in insistently demanding that the employees of the Gujarat government should not be allowed to be associated with the RSS. Completing the irony was that the Congress Seva Dal, that suffers no such ostracism, was not on the scene in Ahmedabad or Anjar or Bhachau or Bhuj.
One and all must accept the reality. With all its fetishes and frailties, the RSS is a unique institution. With 50,00 branches across India and its volunteers spread in more than a hundred countries abroad, it may well be the only one of its kind in the world. It has arisen stronger from each of the three bans so far on its activities. Despite its apparent conservatism and an ideology that seems so anachronistic, if not asinine, it ensures that the saffron flag flutters when calamity strikes its beloved matrubhoomi. What more can a patriot be expected to do?
Vinay
and Prof Yvette Rosser's experiences with IDRF fundd projects
At one place u write "Shankar" . at another u write
"Sankar" . I am first time seeing a person who makes spelling mistake in his name
Shankar
supporters of IDRF are also supporters of RSS
January 28 2003, 12:20 PM
Those screaming imposter at me and pointing out spelling mistakes in my name are beyond silly.
Also merely repeating tired pro-RSS nonsense doesnt change what RSS has done and continues to do to destroy India.
And by the way all of you are screaming in support of RSS, VKA and IDRF. Did you forget that the main gripe against IDRF was its connections to these groups?
Ha ha ha ha~! parrots dont think about what they say, they just repeat it.
So you have proved to me now clearly very clearly: that IDRF is with RSS and you love both of them because they are related.
By the way, RSS is not the authority on Hinduism, Vedas or Gita. So take RSS lies and stick it in the gutter where it belongs. I dont care what your opinion on Hinduism is because your guru is hitler not vivekananda, mussolini not gandhiji.
har har mahadev!
Shankar Jaganath
Hyderabad
Shankar
supporters of IDRF are also supporters of RSS
January 28 2003, 12:21 PM
Those screaming imposter at me and pointing out spelling mistakes in my name are beyond silly.
Also merely repeating tired pro-RSS nonsense doesnt change what RSS has done and continues to do to destroy India.
And by the way all of you are screaming in support of RSS, VKA and IDRF. Did you forget that the main gripe against IDRF was its connections to these groups?
Ha ha ha ha~! parrots dont think about what they say, they just repeat it.
So you have proved to me now clearly very clearly: that IDRF is with RSS and you love both of them because they are related.
By the way, RSS is not the authority on Hinduism, Vedas or Gita. So take RSS lies and stick it in the gutter where it belongs. I dont care what your opinion on Hinduism is because your guru is hitler not vivekananda, mussolini not gandhiji.
har har mahadev!
Shankar Jaganath
Hyderabad
Vinay
That shows it all
January 28 2003, 1:46 PM
Look at the time it was posted- it shud have been 3-4 am in Hyd. On top, the guy is callin others who pointed out spelling mistake in his name (not once, but twice) as silly . a hearty
Coming to the point..
>Did you forget that the main gripe against IDRF was >its connections to these groups?
To me its immaterial if they have a connection or not . All I care is good work. Many projects supported by IDRF may be run by RSS volunteers because they are the ones doing good work - that's why i posted Lavakare's article. It doesn't make any difference to me this way or other
As for the IDRF's official clarification (I am not an IDRF volunteer) see
Ha ha, u said Hitler - Do you know what Nazi party was called initially? Socilaist party ! and even now the lefts' candidate for President's post was Lakshmi Sehgal whos INA had taken inspiration and help from Hitler . and the "RSS " inspired party ( eventhough I doubt if BJP deserves it) supported Kalam against her
So then who is Nazi?
-Vinay
IDRF Receives No Directives From RSS: Vinod Prakash
Author: Devasish Ray
Publication:
Date: December 8, 2002
To equate transfer of funds by the India Development and Relief Fund for social development in India, to money laundering by Islamic charities for the sole purpose for terrorism is preposterous and displays the ludicrously negative attitude of a section of the media, both Indian and Western.
The premise of the accusation is that Shri Vinod Prakash, Founder and President of IDRF has been secretly channeling funds to Hindu Fundamentalists in India and the monies transferred were being used by the RSS to promote communal violence in sensitive regions in India...Gujarat being the most recent. An extremely pained Prakash vented frustration to India Post saying, "I will allow my body to be cut to a million pieces, if anyone can prove that even a dollar of IDRF has been used for perpetration of violence in Gujarat. This is absolutely nonsense". Prakash wife Sarla is flabbergasted, "This has been manufactured in such a way... it is unbelievable."
Prakash went to say that the section of the media determined the accusation by researching the issue. "They claim research. They should be ashamed calling the report as competent research. They never contacted us or asked us to verify anything. They picked up information from the web site and misinterpreted it out context," said Prakash.
So why has he and his organization been singled out for this "slander campaign." Prakash is quick to point out that he has been inspired by the RSS and its organizational cababilites and discipline. "I am also inspired by Mahatma Gandhi, Swami Vivekananda and Shri Aurobindo." This doesn't mean that I wear the RSS jacket nor do I endorse everything of the RSS," said Prakash. Prakash categorically stated that his identity was not synonymous with the RSS. The journalist in question who is now accusing the IDRF of duping NRIs into transferring funds to Hindu Fundamentalists had paid glowing tributes in an earlier article.."it (IDRF) has launched a fund raising drive in an attempt to continue its service to the community. A tax-exempt organization in the United States, the IDRF has been actively involved in serving the most disadvantaged, impoverished, illiterate, disabled, orphan, poor and needy people. Over the past decade, it has handed out grants worth $6,418,000. But the organization, run by volunteers, is not one to rest on its achievements."
Prakash explained the genesis of the idea of IDRF was to engage in grass root work in social, educational and infrastructural development of India. " It is true that we came in contact with RSS Pracharaks and the report in that sense is correct and we were inspired by them. We are associated with the Sewa aspect of their agenda ," said Prakash. "There is nothing wrong with that. they are not a criminal organization." Prakash further added that the dedication and commitment of the volunteers of the RSS is unparallel. Prakash who is 70 is quick to add that although he was a volunteer of the RSS, his only official standing was that as President of IDRF. "IDRF neither solicits nor receives directives from the RSS."
On the rumor that the present Ambassador at large Bhism Agnihotri being associated with IDRF, Prakash said, "I categorically deny this rumor."
Prakash who categorized his involvement with India as Emotional, Rational and Spiritual said "that if his organization was only a pro Hindu body the hundreds of students studying in the Sewa Bharati schools would be handpicked on the sole basis of their religion. "There are students of all faiths in these schools". Incidentally, the latest CBSE results achieved by the school is impressive. According to documents investigated by India Post 48 passed with first division, 15 passed with second divisions, only 2 in third division and none failed. The students who come from the poorest section of society have achieved an impossible dream, thanks to the sustained efforts of IDRF.
Prakash said the accounts of the NGOs were audited by the agencies as per Indian law. "The moment we get information that a particular organization has lost its tax exemption status we will stop funding them."
Prakash points out that there is a difference between Patriotism and Fundamentalism. "The IDRF had come out in full flow when there was an earthquake in Latur. We donated thousands of dollars. Did we see that the affected people were Hindus, Muslims or Christians? The Orissa Cyclone tragedy is another example of IDRF's tireless efforts to swing into action whenever the need arises. "This comes from Patriotism towards one's country."
On the occasion of the marriage of Prakash's two sons, no personal gifts were received. Instead, checks were collected in the name of IDRF and the money collected was sent to benefit numerous charities in India. Many India-American families in the US have followed suit since then.
Prakash says that he is "proud to be an Indian, proud to be a Hindu." The Hindu religion is not just a religion, it is a way of life," concluded Prakash.
Jay Bhavani
parrots?
January 28 2003, 2:06 PM
Indiacause Administrator, please note this impostor has no positive contribution to make to this board, and is only interested in mud-slinging.
______________________________________________________ Please donate to IDRF. http://www.IDRF.org
Get IDRF Mastercard. It doesn't cost you a dime, and one percent of all your purchases goes to your poor brothers/sisters in India.
Raj
Re: Rebuttals to Anti-India/Anti-IDRF Propaganda
January 28 2003, 7:20 PM
My dear Shankar/Sankar,
I made many spelling mistakes while writing something but never did a mistake while signing my name.
So come out of your rat hole and show us your real avatar.
Raj
Raj
Re: Rebuttals to Anti-India/Anti-IDRF Propaganda
January 28 2003, 7:28 PM
Also you got your last name wrong too. A true hindu from Hyderabad, India will never spell his last name as Jaganath.
Shankar Jaganath
what a joke!
January 29 2003, 9:51 AM
"Also you got your last name wrong too. A true hindu from Hyderabad, India will never spell his last name as Jaganath."
This proves my point that some of you seem to think you have some divine right to decide who is "True Hindu" and who is not. This is not surprising because you are supporters of RSS and its idiotic Nazi goals.
If you are true Hindus as you claim I am not, then what are you doing supporting a movement that is destroying Hinduism?
I have seen these crooks in Hyderabad (and by the way some of us are online at late hours); they have nothing good to offer the society--just communalism, hatred, stupid false ideas of history and continuous attacks on anyone different from them or Hindus opposed to them.
You claim Lakshmi Sehgal was a Nazi? Ask Hegdewar and Savarkar who theiur guru was? Ask Moonje who his guru was.
Read this of you dare and ask yourself, who the nazis are:
----------------------------------------------------
Exchange between Mussolini and BS Moonje, mentor of Hegdewar, the man who organized the structure of the RSS.
source: http://www.ercwilcom.net/~indowindow/sad/godown/secular/fascirss.htm
Signor Mussolini: What is your opinion about them? (referring to Italian fascist military organizations)
Dr. Moonje: Your Excellency, I am much impressed. Every aspiring and growing Nation needs such organizations. India needs them most for her military regeneration. During the British Domination of the last 150 years Indians have been waved away from the military profession but India now desires to prepare herself for undertaking the responsibility for her own defence and I am working for it. I have already started an organization of my own, conceived independently with similar objectives. I shall have no hesitation to raise my voice from the public platform both in India and England when occasion may arise in praise of your Balilla and Fascist organizations. I wish them good luck and every success.
Signor Mussolini - who appeared very pleased - said - Thanks but yours is an uphill task. However I wish you every success in return.
Saying this he got up and I also got up to take his leave.
The description of the Italian journey includes information regarding fascism, its history, the fascist 'revolution', etc, and continues for two more pages.
One can wonder at the association between B.S. Moonje and the RSS, but if we think that Moonje had been Dr. Hedgewar's mentor, the association will be much clearer.[14] The intimate friendship between Moonje and Hedgewar and the former's declared intention to strengthen the RSS and to extend it as a nationwide organization prove a strict connection between Moonje and the RSS. Moreover, it makes sense to think that the entire circle of militant Hinduism must have been influenced by Moonje's Italian experience.
-------------------------------------------------
So please tell me, dear "true Hindus," how come, your Hindutvadi ancestors had more respect for Mussolini than for Swami Vivekananda, or even Gandhiji?
The answer is clear: Hindutva is ANTI-HINDU; it is PRO-FASCIST--EVERY HINDU MUST RISE AND DESTROY THIS CANCER WHEREVER IT EXISTS!
Satyam eva Jayate!
Shankar Jaganath
(by the way, those who think every Hyderabadi has to have a so called "true Hindu" name, I ask you to come to Hyderabad; living in some kitty corner and promoting idiotic movements like Hindutva maks you blind to the reality I think.)
Vinay
Dear Mudslinger
January 29 2003, 10:04 AM
Your intentions are becoming clearer day by day. And I am sure people in the group are convinced that your real name is different. So no need to shout about that any more
Coming to the point, keep ur experiences with yourself, we are not going to take the words of a Hindu hater like you. You "claim" to have seem communalistic people, beyond that you don't have anything to offer. If you think Hinduism is threatened in their hands, go do all that is necessary to protect it
We are more than convinced that Hinduism is threatened by people like you
For the Mussolini thing, whatever Mr Moonje said is pretty much exactly what Netaji thought when he went
to take Hitlers help . At that time it was natural for Indians to take inspiration from any anti British regime. That does not in anyway mean that Netaji was a Nazi and he supported all their misdeeds
Calling Lakshmi Sehgal a Nazi hurts, isn't Mr Yogi-Commie? But by your own logic, she is one. Can't help it
And if this hate monger , Hindu hater, India hater, continues to be here, and continues to throw mud and filth without any substance, I reuest the moderator to step in
Vinay
ps: What are you doing at that early in the morning. That is Brahma Muhurtham Mister, go do Hatha Yoga, not web browsing
Shankar Jaganath
more idiocy from vinay
January 29 2003, 10:35 AM
dear mudslinging professionals;
netaji approached hitler to ask for help in mobilizing INDIANS against thr british; in contrast
moonje's goal was to create a thug squad to attack Muslims in India, NOT to fight the British.
RSS never did anything against the Britishm, only communalist hatred against Muslims. So dont talk about comparing Netaji or even the courageous Lakshmi Sehgal with suchg traitorous scumbags like Moonje, Savarkar or Hegdewar.Captain Sehgal led the womens regiment oif the INA, in battle, not sitting in a bungalow and preaching hatred and division while happily winking at their British masters.
Netaji never divided his army in terms of religion or culture. He mobilized a peoples army consisting of all faiths and many atheists too.
RSS is a sick joke when it comes to what it did: clear collaboratirs with British. No comparison at all so dont claim any nationalistic agenda for RSS--they were and still continue to be agents of colonizers and outside masters. 1942 quit india movement--35 million Indians marched for freedom---absent from the effort--RSS and Hindu Mahasabha--reason--because they wanted to win favor with the british!!!--read your history and cry with shame; then decide you want to be INDIAN first, and INDIAN last, NEVER NEVER NEVER Hindutvadi servant of colonizers!
Shankar
Vinay
Dear misinterpretter
January 29 2003, 11:02 AM
Here is from ur own posting. Makes it clear for what they took inspiration from . Judge for urself.
-----------------------------------------------------
Dr. Moonje: Your Excellency, I am much impressed. Every aspiring and growing Nation needs such organizations. India needs them most for her military regeneration. During the British Domination of the last 150 years Indians have been waved away from the military profession but India now desires to prepare herself for undertaking the responsibility for her own defence and I am working for it. I have already started an organization of my own, conceived independently with similar objectives
and I have already posted Lavakare's article on how RSS serves indiscriminatorily
Other than shouting ur own opinion do u have anything else to offer?
Vinay
Dear Liar Shankar
January 29 2003, 11:09 AM
Despite its infancy, Sangh plunged very early into the struggle for freedom against the colonial rule of the British. RSS opposed Simon commission in 1928, offered Satyagraha in 1930 and contributed to Quit India Movement in 1942. It worked closely with revolutionaries including Vir Savarkar, Bhagat Singh, Rajguru, Subhash Chandra Bose, etc. In the post independence era also Sangh played a major role in liberating Goa and Dadar-Nagar-Haveli from the Portugese.
-----------------------------------------------------
The RSS, which is blamed by them foe its silence in the anti-colonial
struggle, welcomed the resolution of 'Complete Independence' passed by
the Lahore Congress (1929), and issued a circular to all its branches
stating, "knowing that the INC too has accepted our goal of Independence
naturally gives us immense joy and it is our bounden duty to cooperate
with any organisation working for this objectives". And they
unconditionally participated in the, civil disobedience movement
notwithstanding their ideological differences with the Congress.
The Congress was outlawed during 1930-34 and even the RSS, which then
did not have a significant following, faced severe repression. The
Government servants, teachers and employees of the local bodies and
their wards were strictly prohibited from participating in the
activities of the RSS. However, the CPI continued to be a legal body
during that period. The National Front, the official organ of the CPI,
in its very first issue conceded that "the Communists generally kept out
of the anti-imperialist struggle of 1930-32. We did not take part in the
battle and lead the people."
Side note: Swami Vivekananda had turned down a scientist from joining freedom struggle. Once when asked why he is not significantly involved with the freedom movement (other than of course as an inspiration) he replied "Do you want freedom, I can get it tomorrow. But where are the men to take care of the hard earned freedom"
Shankar Jaganath
moonje's "patriotism"
January 29 2003, 11:18 AM
moonje's intentions are clearly evident in his support for organization of the RSS:-clearly he translated whatever he claimed to Mussolini as "Hindu" only once he reached home. Moonje's intention was to militarize Hindus not Indians--and this is very clear if you read the whole text (source: http://www.ercwilcom.net/~indowindow/sad/godown/secular/fascirss.htm)
also, dont forget that many brave efforts by INdians against the British had been carried out for more than 150 years--so moonje claiming to be the pioneer in challenging the british was just a way to get on the good side of mussolini (who of course hated the british for his own expansionist reasons)--the result? RSS never engaged in any action against the british--clear record--always obedient like dogs to the foriegn masters, even today--look at Sangh-dasa Vajpayee lick the boots of Bush.
Also tell me why did groups like HSRA (Hindustan Socialist Republican Army) of Shaheed Bhagat Singh and Shaheed Chandrasekhar Azad, Shaheed Ashfaquallah Khan, the cream of India's fiery revolutionaries, which started long before RSS or even Ghaddar (1910-15) AVOID ALL CONNECTIONS WITH GROUPS LIKLE HINDU MAHASABHA??? Ghaddar banned members who were connected to religion--they clearly said--those who promote religious divisions are AGENTS OF THE COLONIZER ENEMY!
Read your history and weep, not because of the disgusting character of Hindutva's founders, but because such great INDIANS are forgotten and their memory is being dragged through the mud by Hindutvadis claiming now to be nationalists!!!
INDIA YES, HINDUTVA NO!!!
RISE YE INDIAN BRETHREN, THROW OFF THE YOKE OF THIS ALIEN CULT CALLED HINDUTVA, IT IS THE MOVEMENT OF FOREIGN SCOUNDRELS AIMING TO ENSLAVE INDIA!!!
Shankar Jaganath
Hyderabad
Vinay
Dear Cook
January 29 2003, 11:28 AM
Cooking up ur own theories ... nothing much can be done
RSS has completed 75 years and every time it was banned it just grew. It will continue to because its doing good work
Commies like you will never get support from people
Sanathana Dharma is the essence of Hinduism . It will prevail inspite of people like you
" Sanathana Dharma is India's Only Swaraj "- Sri Aurobindo
Judgment of the Supreme Court on the meaning of Hindutwa has received mixed reactions as it has happened always whenever the Apex Court delivered any important judgment. It is widely welcomed by those who regard that Hindutwa of Hinduism alone is the panacea for all the problems arising out of moral degradation in every sphere of national activity. On the other hand, those who regard Hindutwa as religion are adversely commenting on the judgment. They are expressing the apprehension that the view may be misused for exploiting religion for politics resulting in destruction of secular character of our Nation and therefore it requires reconsideration by a larger bench. It is also being criticised as contrary to the Nine Judge Bench Judgment in Bommai's case in which the Supreme Court reiterated that Secularism was an element of the basic structure of our Constitution and therefore an injunction against introducing caste and religion into politics.
A careful reading of the judgment in Manohar Joshi's case discloses that the view expressed by the Court that Hindutwa or Hinduism is not religion and it is a way of life comprising of noble values of life is based on earlier decisions of the Court and is flawless and unexceptionable. In order to correctly appreciate the point arising for consideration, we have to see as to what were the questions which arose for consideration.
Vinay
Dear "Alien"
January 29 2003, 11:31 AM
Can you explain how Hindutwa of Hinduism is an Alien Cult? Generally throwing around words eh?
Sjankar Jaganath
re: lies and bloody lies
January 29 2003, 11:31 AM
the claim that RSS engaged in anti-british activities is such a poor joke. in the quit india movement, the RSS clearly instructed its cadres to fully cooperate with authorities and NOT take part in the mobilizations. In bengal it shamelessly tried to take advantage of jailed congressites, to try and make deals with the british.
In 1940 the Hindu Mahasabha manifested its intention to take part to the Viceroy's Executive Council and the War Office. We should not forget that neither the Hindu Mahasabha nor the RSS took part in the Quit India movement. The position they maintained in that period is clearly depicted by Savarkar's declaration of 17 February 1942, when he asserted that, if Japan, after having approached the Indian borders and invaded the country, had been ready to declare the Independence of India, all this would have incredibly "boosted" Indians' imagination. The British should therefore give the impression that fighting beside them meant fighting for freedom.[75] It seems, in other words, that the Hindu Mahasabha (and probably its affiliations) was more interested in succeeding the British, if possible with their complicity, rather than fighting them.
The other side of this ambiguous stand was a blatant admiration for the European dictators. According to a police report of May 1942, regarding the activities of Poona Officers Training Camp of April-May,
Dr. P.C. Sahasrabudhe addressed the volunteers on three occasions. On 4.5.42 he announced that the Sangh followed the principle of dictatorship. Denouncing democratic Government as an unsatisfactory form of Government, he quoted France as a typical example and, praising dictatorship, he pointed to Japan, Russia and Germany. He particularly praised the Fuehrer principle of Germany. On 21.5.42 he drew attention to the value of propaganda, quoting Russia and Germany as examples, and again extolled the virtues of the Leader principle, citing Mussolini's success as a further example.[76]
When, in the 1940s, the totalitarian regimes had already revealed their true colours, the attitude of the organizations of militant Hinduism towards fascism and nazism was still benevolent. In spite of the already, even if only partially, known atrocities committed by Hitler and Mussolini, the main organizations of Hindu nationalism still praised the dictators and their regimes. This position could be justified, had it been part of a coherent and strong anti-British policy. However, as I have tried to demonstrate, the forces of Hindu nationalism seem to have concentrated their efforts more against the so called internal enemies - Muslims and Congress - rather than the foreign invaders. While Bose's alliance with the Axis powers had mainly an anti-British function, the Hindu Mahasabha used its support to the dictators as an instrument to blackmail the British. (--ie. into making them successors as masters of India)
-----------------------------------------------
need more evidence of the traitorous role of Hindutva during British rule?? I'll be happy to help you..
Shankar Jaganath
Hyderabad
Vinay
Dear half-truther
January 29 2003, 11:41 AM
This whole episode is in view of the Dominion status that was offered by British in 1940s. That is, u help them in their war against Nazis etc, they will give dominion status (almost independence)
see : Sri Aurobindo said that Japan was a young country. Had the impulse of imperialism succeeded there, she would take possibly 500 years to outgrow that. British Imperialism was the expansive impulse of a mature nation, founded on democracy, who valued the good opinion of others more than anything. She did not come to rule, She came to trade. Ruling India was almost an accident. From the time Indian Freedom was won in the subtle plane in 1910 we see in the House of Commons endeavours to grant India greater measure of self rule. In 1935 the India Bill that was passed by the House of Commons conferred dominion status on India. Gandhiji rejected it.
What you presented from the commie site (where such commies as KN Panikkar writes) is no proof for anything . For Aurobindos support of Dominion Satus will you call him a traitor (well, u may because u are most probably not even an India. Its 1.15 am in Hyderabad Buddy!)
Vinay
so far
January 29 2003, 11:42 AM
You have not substantiated your "Hinduism-alien" theory . My doubts are increasing that you are a Paki. but never mind
Vinay
To add on
January 29 2003, 11:47 AM
Had Gandhiji not rejected the Dominion status , there migt not have been partition. That's why RSS too might have been keen on that proposition
Vinay
no more
January 29 2003, 11:57 AM
I think I will rather keep quiet that wasting my time talking to this liar propagandist
-Vinay
Jay Bhavani
Hopping mad imbecile parrot
January 29 2003, 12:07 PM
Dear shankar/sankar/sjankar,
Whatever junk allegations you are posting, really, HOW IS THAT RELEVANT TO IDRF?
You can keep hopping mad all you want to, but baseless allegations, a la "report" on IDRF is not going to convince anyone except commies.
_______________________________________________________ Please donate to IDRF. http://www.IDRF.org
MARTYRS FOR NATIONAL INTEGRATION FUND The Fund will strive to provide a sustained, permanent resource to assist those who have suffered from the terrorist war being waged on our nation.
psecs
January 29 2003, 5:57 PM
Vande Mataram!
I dont agree with everything Shankar is saying but there are some good points. RSS never did anything to fight British. My grandfather was a freedom fighter who supported Congress. In Madras presidency and UP he said wherever RSS came to organize the anti-British actions like satyagraha and mass actions used to stop and Hindu-Muslim fighting started. Congress used to bring everybody together but they used to have their own problems.
Some people on this forum are saying communists are bad and this and that. Did you know Bhagat Singhji himself said he was a communist? He wrote a book called "why i am atheist" before he was hanged.
mahesh
Vijay Kapoor
Muslims or british - the bigger enemy?
January 29 2003, 6:37 PM
The british never abducted women
They did not do forced conversions
They did not desecrate temples
They allowed criticism of christianity and missionaries
The muslims on the other hand did all the above
----
Lets ask the hindus of pakistan and bangladesh who
was better, muslim rule or british rule?
------
Until 1920, Savarkar and Hegdewar were anti-british
and believed in hindu-muslim unity
The muslim riots in Moplah and khilafat made them realise that muslims were worse enemies than the british
Savarkar realised that the british would leave India
in a few decades and muslims would again attack hindus
so he focused on anti-muslim activities after 1925
Prior he had been sent to Andamans hard labor for anti-british activities
-------
The muslims did not take part in anti-british activities, hence the 25% muslims got 35% of central seats, 35% of army, 75% of police in punjab and bengal and 35% of police all over India
Since the muslims did not take part in anti-british activities, the british allowed them to riot
and create pakistan
----
Jayesh Patel
This is dangerously silly!
January 29 2003, 7:01 PM
Hey Vijay,
are you agreeing that our own countrymen were more dangerous than British? 20 million indians died in famines caused by british policis and their cruelty from 1890 to 1920. can you really blame muslims for this? are you crazy?
guys I'm starting to get worried. hindu pride is one thing. to blame muslims for everything when many muslims stood strongly against british (too much evidence going back two hundred years).
to blame muslims more than british makes Shankar's rants very logical. i dont know. i think i will read savarkar's writings to find out if vijay is saying correctly. maybe, i will not be able to believe many things i see in this forum and in this hindutva system.
hopefully not.
Jayesh
Vijay Kapoor
Ask the hindus of pakistan or bangladesh
January 29 2003, 8:07 PM
Under muslim rule
hindus have gone from 25% to 1% in pakistan
and from 30% to 10% in bangladesh
The muslims killed 80 million hindus
Think would you like to live in a muslim country
Indian muslims suddenly became secular after 1947
Suresh Kumar
pseudo history
January 30 2003, 7:12 AM
Vijay writes:
>Under muslim rule hindus have gone from 25% to 1% in >pakistan and from 30% to 10% in bangladesh
During partition terrible atrocities commited by all sides.
>The muslims killed 80 million hindus
There is no evidence of this--and what do you mean by 'Muslims?' How can you blame 300 million people in subcontinent for murders done by some? Like how can someone blame 800 million Hindus for murders by lunatics like bajrang dal?
>Think would you like to live in a muslim country
I know many Hindus who live in Bangladesh. They know that the difference between BNP and ordinary Bangla people. Many Muslims protected Hindus from murderers--I know many cases of this.
>Indian muslims suddenly became secular after 1947
This is a stupid insult. RSS has always been anti-Muslim for no reason. As a proponent of Hindutva, I want the movement to be PRO-HINDU, not ANTI-MUSLIM.
Vijay's comments have no basis in history or logic.
sorry guys, but the psec Shankar has made some important points come out, and I am disappointed that those I believed to be on my side are taking such a one sided anti-Muslim view of everything. THis type of mentality will only hurt our beloved Hindu religion more.
Suresh Kumar
Sanatani
The Gameplan exposed.
January 30 2003, 7:42 AM
>Indian muslims suddenly became secular after 1947
Addendum:
Wherever muslims are in minority, they push for secularism, and work hard towards becoming majority.
1. by practicing polygamy - note their opposition to Uniform civil code.
2. having dozens of children, (look at population growth rates, sorted by religion, latest census is available over internet)
3. abducting and forcibly-marrying kafir women, (www.KanchanMishra.org)
4. and finally, rampant killings of kafirs (read news about Ghatkopar, Vile-parle bombs recently, and Godhra, Kashmir in the past)
As soon as they reach a critical mass (40-50%), the bloodbath begins. This bloodbath generally halts when the dream of dar-ul-islam is achieved. In other words, kafir land is broken up.
Same steps repeat in the remaining kafir land (aka dar-ul-harab or "land of fighting".)
The critical mass was recently reached in Nigeria, and predictably, bloodbath in southern Nigeria. (Christians are kafirs in this nation).
Just prior to that, East Timor. (also Christians)
I am not against Islam as personal religion, hey I have numerous muslim friends too. The issue here is Islam as a political "movement" and a systematic approach of terror at the same time attempts to convert the remaining secular nations into sharia-ruled ones. THIS INCLUDES INDIA, which means
YOU ARE THEIR TARGET!
Jay Bhavani
Back to IDRF
January 30 2003, 9:53 AM
>>Under muslim rule hindus have gone from 25% to 1% in pakistan and from 30% to 10% in bangladesh
>During partition terrible atrocities commited by all sides.
From the figures, it's clear that Vijay is referring to post-independence scenario.
In any case, hyderabadi miyan and suresh would do well stopping Hindu bashing. Polarising Hindus by bashing them on every occasion, will have disastrous political results, a la Gujarat elections.
Coming back to the thread, IDRF does not discriminate recipients based on religion. Every IDRF donor can choose where his/her donation goes. A missionary hospital in Miraj, Maharashtra is also a grateful recipient of IDRF funds.
Au contraire, Is any muslim/christian charity known to help Hindus (except the Conversion carrot)?
_____________________________________________________ Please donate to India Development and Relief Fund. http://www.IDRF.org All your donations are 100% tax-deductible.
Ramnath
why so much hatred?
January 30 2003, 5:57 PM
I feel you guys have too much hatred in you. Yu are exagerating so many things and simply saying all Muslims are bad even though you know that is false.
If you are true Hindus dont forget the teachings of the religion instead of only hating.
I think IDRF is lying. As a Hindu I cannot lie about this. They are liars and your words are hatred ..dosham.. dont support IDRF when you know they are lying.
Raj
IDRF petions crossed 7000 mark
January 31 2003, 7:38 AM
And Ramnath/Jagnath/Shankar/Sankar:
Why hide behind hindu names? No matter what you guys do, just remember one thing.
