I would like to start a forum on problems with Christian Universities. I know that there are many issues out there. For example, I just read on the Oklahoma Christian University web site alumni section of people working for community churches. I have also heard of Bible teachers asking women to lead prayers before classes. What else is going on at other universities that we should watch out for?
Would you rather go to a Christian University that compromises your beliefs or to a state school where at least you know where they stand?
C'mon now. Christian Universities are making themselves look bad. ACU gets tickled at Max Lucado (person of the year). Faulkner hires the Jesus painter for Chapel. OC gets denominationl people to speak at the lectureships. There are just a few things going on out there that are changing the Church, in the wrong direction.
The purpose of that site is for people to know where their classmates are and what they are up to. OCU cannot control whether a graduate decides to work in a denominational church. My guess would be that there are graduates of state schools and Christian schools who have fallen away from the church, had affairs, committed illegal acts, etc. In most cases, blaming the universities would be innacurate generalizing. Beyond that, searching desperately for ANYTHING that reinfores your presuppositions about Christian universities only serves to weaken your argument.
A mind, like a parachute, functions best when open.
I'd like to know what the problem is with Jeff Walling. I went to one of those terrible Christian universities (Harding) YEARS ago and still remember a wonderful sermon of Jeff Walling's that has stuck with me all these years. Maybe you could make a list of the ministers who God has approved so we'll all know.
Jeff Walling has made some strange comments about salvation and about "traditional" church of Christs. I've heard him speak before. Very good speaker, knows how to get you interested. Unfortuanately, NO SCRIPTURES. What a waste of a sermon.
Meathead (I wonder how you got that name??), don't you have anything else better to do than to sit and dwell over what Christian universities are or are not doing?? If you're so worried about this problem, then why aren't you contacting the adiministrations of these vile institutions of higher learning and voicing your concerns instead of festering and fuming here on this silly website? I visit this website occasionally just for the "entertainment" value and I am NEVER disappointed! If it isn't you, it's Kenneth Sublett or Kevin Hamm or some other axe-grinder whining about NON-ISSUES and doing absolutely nothing about the so-called problems you stir up. If you people would actually spend as much time TEACHING, PREACHING, and trying to EDIFY the saints as you do writing page after page after page of pointless drivel, then maybe these problems would have been cleared up a long time ago!
I think we should be aware that Christian universities are stepping into some areas that we should be concerened about. If Bible class teachers are asking women to lead prayers, or if Baptism is no longer being taught, or if speakers are used who aren't sound we should be concerned. Why aren't you?
Wow, you are the first ever to make fun of my nickname. Never heard that before. </sarcasm>
Jeff Walling pokes fun at the Scriptures. He snubs the importance of baptism and actually made a comedy act out of it when speaking at the '95 Youth Minister's Conference in Memphis.
The only times I have heard him speak (as recently as 2 years ago), he has NEVER "poked fun" at any scriptures. The last time I heard him speak, the entire lesson was about a passage in John, which he continually referred back to and read. Whatever happened to our responsibility to be discerning?
Second, on Christian Universities...
Meathead, you are casting a very wide net. Most Christian Universities do teach baptism. They might not teach it in a class about the Pentateuch or the Minor Prophets, but they do teach it.
Why do so many on this site feel the need to categorize everyone? I am a scripturally conservative guy who has learned from the words of people who seem to be on completely different ends of the spectrum. I can learn from Jeff Walling and not agree with everything he says. I can read Max Lucado for new insight into a scripture without seeking his advice on doctrine.
Not everyone fits on your little "buzz word" boxes.
Check out blogs.oc.edu and click Curt Niccum. There have been some "interesting" discussions on the TNIV and using instruments. Very discouraging..... Click around on the various day's topics.
Seems to me that Professor Tippens was trying to exercise a little damage control. People need to be careful what they say and how they say it when they represent a larger organization, such as ACU.
Under the assumption that there are individuals at ACU that are still in the business of forgiving and saving the lost, Dr. Hoover's comments could be damaging to that mission. I don't think that the Bible is unclear about homosexuality being a sin, and the Christ's church needs to make it clear that our stance is the same as God's. Nevertheless, homosexuality is no greater a sin than any other sinful tendency an individual may have. We all have our "pet" sins. For some, that persistent struggle is homosexuality. Our job is to encourage and edify those who desire to live a Christian life in spite of their sinful tendencies. While I have never struggled with homosexuality, I have long struggled with deceit. Satan knows that is my weakness, and he assaults me on that front daily. Is there forgiveness for me? If there is, why can that same forgiveness not be afforded to a person who struggles with homosexuality?
Those who have a mind and heart of forgiveness struggle with understanding those who easily reject those who we label "sinners," and vice-versa. I think that's the case between Tippens and Hoover. I didn't gleam from the article that ACU is endorsing homosexual behavior.
Jeff
<All Christians are sinners, but not all sinners are Christians.>
I would say Freed Hardeman and Faulkner University are the two that haven't strayed from the truth. I would feel confident, if my children attended there, that they would get a solid education and not learn to compromise their convictions.
There are plenty more sound Christian universities. Why would you say that? What school did you go to? What makes Harding University unsound for example?
Jeff Walling was recently a guest speaker at the Harvester Christian Church in Harvester, Missouri.
He doesn't seem to have any noticeable allegience to the New Testament Church.
I was a recent speaker at HCC and you know what? They teach and preach the EXACT SAME plan of salvation that Churches of Christ do. Including the necessity of Baptism according to Acts 2:38 and other Scriptures. It is for salvation, specifically for the remission of sins. They do not believe that women can be elders. What harm is ther in speaking to them. Maybe we can bring them a little closer, or a lot closer. Are they not worth ministering to?
Spend this much time and energy sharing Jesus with the lost and you will have FINALLY accomplished something. We in th c of C are called a "sect" because of postings such as these. Get away from the computer and start taking Jesus to people. I am saddened a great deal by this web site.
I regret making this forum topic. While I don't agree with what some of the Christian universities support or teach and I wouldn't send my children there, it was stupid of me to make accusations based on hersey or what I read on some internet rumor. I apologize for this.
This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!
...........................THE BOOK
What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?
There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.
This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison
Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource
references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least
you will recognize the signs early on.
Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't
know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.
Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was
one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.
It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of
it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word
of Jesus Christ.
At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority
of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly
realm.
They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and
to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.
The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan.
Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books,
seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change
so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....
At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to
be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched
through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the
"Community Church Movement"
Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready,
or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the
plans very nature, it had to be secret.
The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was
never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last
15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.
The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the
elders went along unwittingly.
This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell
something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill
in some of the timeline.
To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the
background materials in the first of the book.
This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be
printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our
web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison
Here is the list of players;
5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten
commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)