What about singing during the Lord’s Supper as a “fellowship meal”?
October 3 2006, 12:30 AM
The “Praise Team” [a.k.a. “praise leaders” comprised of both men (leaders) and women (leaders)] at the Madison contemporary division does this singing quite often during the observance of the Lord’s Supper. Its members sometimes do the humming [wordless music, i.e.]—and it is considered scriptural by the human-designated “Worship Leader”—contrary to the NT passages that express the import of letting “the word of Christ dwell in” us richly; teaching and admonishing one another, SPEAKING to one another….
At times one of the Praise Team leaders—a woman leader—renders an annoying, attention-getting, distracting solo performance during the partaking while a little clip is shown on the screen depicting the Lord’s Supper as what appears to be a meal.
Can you imagine how busy the praise leaders are multi-tasking during the partaking—holding the sheet music and the microphone, watching the “Worship Leader’s” arm-wagging, singing or humming while partaking of the bread or the cup?
Speaking of humming—we know there’s no teaching and admonishing involved there.
Speaking of a solo performance by a female leader—just whaaa … that?
What about making sure that your mouth is not too full of bread … or you won’t be able to sing? Hum … maybe. But then humming is an unintelligible sound!
Can you imagine when, instead of commemorating the Lord’s death—that simply … no more … no less, the new and improved teaching of the change agents that the Lord’s Supper during the apostolic era was a fellowship among believers enjoying a full meal should become the trend? Then, wouldn’t be interesting to watch and observe the singing going on WHILE the mouth is full of barbecue pork or chicken?
Never SLURP the juice while USURPING women are on the loose!
October 3 2006, 12:34 PM
First, anyone who makes noise when others are DISCERNING the BODY and thinking about the Death of Jesus Christ are performing the Lucifer or ZOE FALLACY which is "bleeding off worship for themselves." Worship is "holding the thought and thoughts of God in your mind" and Paul's UNIQUE worship word was to GIVE HEED to the Spirit or Words of Christ. Therefore, the DRIVING PURPOSE is to mock Jesus Christ and CHASE Him out of the assembly were HE is the only teacher.
The meaning of the Abomination which makes Desolate were women doing music and sex in the Holy Place (type of church). The PLEASING which Paul outlaws was VIRTUAL sexuality and all of history notes that those in close contact MAKING MUSIC are usually caught making love.
They INTEND to induce a FEELING in you: be totally aware that Lucifer in the garden of Eden, Nimrod and Inanna at the towers of Babylon and MEDICAL SCIENCE knows that she is FONDLING your private parts. Inanna was an EVE or ZOE figure which Paul knew about but YOU do not. She got the MALE god drunk and stole the MEs.
He gave me the princess priestess.
He gave me the divine queen priestess.
He gave me the incantation priest.
He gave me the noble priest.
He gave me the libations priest.
He gave me truth.
He gave me decent into the underworld.
He gave me ascent from the underworls.
He gave me the kurgurra.
The kurgarru, the assinu, and the kulu'u performed plays,
music, dances, and games during rituals, Greenberg points out Hittite, Babylonian and Assyrian texts which refer to these male prostitutes. The texts picture assinu and kurgarru as"religious functionaries particularly associated with the goddess Ishtar, who danced, played musical instruments, wore masks, and were considered effeminate....such functionaries were believed to have magical powers...
'if a man touches the head of an assinu, he will conquer his enemy'...
'if a man has intercourse with an assinu, trouble will leave him.'"
Greenberg, David F. The Construction of Homosexuality . The University of Chicago Press, 1988. Quoted by Arlene Robbins
The GAY LIZZARDS involved "putting on of apparel" or performing religious roles and always perverted: the very addition of SINGING and INSTRUMENTS to reciting Homer or the Bible were the LESBIAN WOMEN.
He gave me the dagger and sword.
He gave me the black garment.
He gave me the colorful garment.
He gave me the loosening of hair.
He gave me the binding of hair.
He gave me the standard.
He gave me the quiver.
He gave me the art of lovemaking.
He gave me the art of kissing the phallus.
He gave me the art of prostitution.
He gave me the art of speeding.
He gave me the art of forthright speech.
He gave me the art of slanderous speech.
He gave me the art of adorning speech.
He gave me the cult of the prostitute.
He gave me the holy tavern.
He gave me the holy shrine.
He gave me the holy priestess of heaven.
He gave me the resounding musical instrument.
He gave me the art of song.
He gave me the art of the elder.
Second, they are fulfilling the prophecy of the speakers, singers or musicians of the Mother Goddess defined by John in Revelation 18 as performing SORCERY: they CLAIM to bring about some kind of contact with God and therefore they CONFESS to being Sorcerers. The literate Greek world just called them PARASITES.
Peter called those who CORRUPT or "sell religion aT Retail" ADULTERERS and so they are.
Finally, the Sophia-Zoe "mother goddess worship" operatives (speakers, singers, musicians, sorcerers) REMOVE the candles of the seven Spirits of God and INFILTRATE by being preside over elders (feeders) and PREACHERS by fooling the fools by PREACHING TO A TUNE.
"Women and girls from the different ranks of society were proud to enter the service of the gods as singers and musicians. The understanding of this service was universal:these singers constituted the 'harem of the gods'." (Johannes Quasten. In Music and Worship in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, beginning on page 41:)
In a discourse between Socrates and Callicles in Georgias, Socrates begins:
Socrates: Then a man may DELIGHT a whole assembly, and yet have no regard for their true interests?
Socrates: Can you tell me the pursuits which delight mankind-or rather, if you would prefer, let me ask, and do you answer, which of them belong to the pleasurable class, and which of them not?
In the first place, what say you of flute-playing? Does not that appear to be an art which seeks only pleasure, Callicles, and thinks of nothing else?
Outlawed for the synagogue in Romans 15 because it REPROACHES or "makes naked" that which people MAY NOT want to be OUTED.
Callicles: I assent.
Socrates: And is not the same true of all similar arts, as, for example, the art of playing the lyre at festivals?
Socrates: And what do you say of the choral art and of dithyrambic poetry?-are not they of the same nature?
Do you imagine that Cinesias the son of Meles cares about what will tend to the moral improvement of his hearers,
or about what will give pleasure to the multitude?
This GIVING PLEASURE connectes to the MUSES as adulterers: maybe just VIRTUAL sexual feelings, but it always LED to more where you DO NOT SEE.
Callicles: There can be no mistake about Cinesias, Socrates.
Socrates: And what do you say of his father, Meles the harp-player?
Did he perform with any view to the good of his hearers? Could he be said to regard even their pleasure?
For his singing was an infliction to his audience.
Musical and rhetorical performances DO afflict the audience: that his how they induce a DRUG HIGH wich they can SELL as being a HOLY spirit.
And of harp playing and dithyrambic poetry in general, what would you say?
Have they not been invented WHOLLY for the sake of PLEASURE?
Callicles: That is my notion of them.
Socrates: And as for the Muse of Tragedy, that solemn and august personage-what are her aspirations?
Is all HER aim and desire only to give pleasure to the spectators,
or does she fight against them and refuse to speak of their pleasant vices,
and willingly proclaim in word and song truths welcome and unwelcome? which in your judgment is her character?
Callicles: There can be no doubt, Socrates, that Tragedy has her face turned towards pleasure and the gratification of the audience.
Socrates: And is not that the sort of thing, Callicles, which we were just now describing as flattery?
Callicles: : Quite true.
Now HERE is part of the INFILTRATE and DIVERT: first we preach WITH a tune and then we preach WITHOUT a tune when PREACHING is a heresy with about the same apostasy as SINGING.
Socrates: Well now, suppose that
we strip all poetry of song and rhythm and metre, there will remain speech?
Callicles: To be sure.
Socrates: And this speech is addressed to a crowd of people?
Socrates: Then, poetry is a sort of rhetoric?
RHETORIC means HYPOCRITES Hupo-kritikos belonging to hupokrisis 2. suited for speaking or delivery, (sc. technę Rev 18=sorcerer) the art of delivery, the actor's art, hupokrinô reply, make answer, of an oracle, 2. expound, interpret, explain [Peter outlawed this as private interpretation.] 2. deliver a speech, declaim, of orators and rhetoricians, represent dramatically, erôtikôn dramatôn 3. of an orator, use histrionic arts, exaggerate,
One of the roles was as canto I. Neutr., to produce melodious sounds (by the voice or an instrument), to sound, sing, play (class. in prose and poetry; to sing and play while the actor accompanies the song with gestures or dancing, C. Transf., of instruments, to sound, resound:
Socrates: And do not the poets in the theatres seem to you to be rhetoricians?
Socrates: Then now we have discovered a sort of rhetoric which is addressed to a crowd of men, women, and children, freemen and slaves.
And this is NOT much to our taste,
for we have described it as having the nature of FLATTERY.
Callicles: Quite true.
They are STILL involved in INFILTRATING and DIVERTING right before your eyes and they CANNOT be remotely connected to Christ who CAST OUT the Musical Minstrels LIKE DUNG. Based on the history of the Sophia-Zoe hostile SUBJECTION of the "little dumb jehovah and logos" I would NEVER consume the communion JUICE: the AGAPAE and other such ABOMINATIONS INCLUDED DRINKING foul stuff. I am NOT just joking: DON'T DRINK THE STUFF.
I am seeking clarification before I reply to Donnie or Ken...
The congregation where I attend sings while the bread is being passed. Each person breaks a piece and holds it, once everyone is served the prayer is offered and everyone eats the bread --- no singing is being done while the Lord's Supper is being eaten... IS this the situation being addressed by your question, OR are you considering something different???
You are SO far off, not to mention the fact that your message is neither loving nor does it promote unity. Folks that "strain at knats" are going to have to answer to the Lord for the divisions they have caused. You may not want to answer this email, but I hope you will answer and show me where and how the Bible precludes singing during Communion or precludes humming or the singing of solos. Paul, in fact seems to advocate solos.
Observation: Tom used the phrase "strain at knats." There is no such word as "knats." The proper spelling is "gnats." Misspelled words always dampen written arguments and weaken the credibility of such posters.
This has me worried. I am unsure as to it being right or wrong, but I know it is very distracting to me. I kjnow we are supposed to put our minds on Christ`s death, burial and resurrection and I find it hard to do with this going on.
Oh come on donnie-
Your response to the original post on this thread is just immature.
You know that everybody in the room BUT YOU, is thinking about Jesus and His sacrifice for us. You're so busy taking notes for your sinful website, you forget to worship.
Why does it bother you that the Lord's Supper is depicted as a meal? Guess what? IT IS A MEAL! Why do you think it's called THE LORD'S SUPPER, instead of THE LORD'S PINCH OF CRACKER AND TINY CUP OF GRAPE JUICE????
If you C of C liberals are, as you claim, are so intent on sticking to the Bible, why doesn't your Lord's Supper come close to resembling the one in the first century? Do you think Jesus and His disciples were sitting around a table with a box of Matzos and a bottle of Welch's with tiny cups?
Remember: CENI donnie, CENI...
You're so bitter about the singing at Madison becoming a little less boring than it was when you were a kid, that you can't see straight. Your anger has become the idol you worship, and I'm scared for you.
Concerned Texan- How does singing songs ABOUT THE CRUCIFIXION distract you from thinking about the crucifixion? Seriously, I don't understand.
I stumbled upon this website by accident!
The people in charge of this web-site should be ashamed! Whatever happend to love?
How do you know you are so correct? The Pharasees (SP) thoght they knew all of the answers too.
Being a Christian is not about the do's and mostly dont's most old C O C preach about! It is about the fact that I am saved because God knew I was imperfect and he allowed Christ to die so that He could go to the father for me and ask for God to see past my sinful,ugly self. It is about Him , not a paticular way of interpreting the bible.
I am so thankful that I no longer am a member of "the church" as my Mom calls it, like everyone else that is not COC is a heathen. I am free from all of the bondage that kept me worrying about my salvation. Jesus said nothing can keep me from him, meaning me as a saved one. I now know that works, nothing, can save me but the relization that I can't make it without my Lord!
I am amazed so much time and effort is spent by this website finding fault in other Christians preaching the truth.
This website is an example of why I recently made the difficult decision to leave the church of Christ. If we all have to be so perfect in everything we do, then I'm afraid heaven is going to be a very lonely place. The God of the Bible is a faithful, loving, and merciful God who is MIGHTY TO SAVE. The writers on this site seem to have forgotten that Jesus died on the cross and conquered the grave so that we DON'T HAVE TO BE PERFECT. HE TOOK OUR PUNISHMENT FOR US AND WE CAN BE ABSOLUTELY SURE OF OUR SALVATION BECAUSE OF HIS SACRIFICE. God is much bigger than all this petty arguing, and there is a lost and dying world out there that needs to hear of the LORD'S (not the church's) saving grace. Our relationship with Jesus Christ is FAR more important than whether or not we are perfect in practice or understanding.
Alan What are you saying? Do you want to do away with the Lord's Supper? Just wandering.
The Old Testament did teach me that Man can't get to God on his own, and I can't even come close. I know the only way I (man) can come into the presence of God is as a bride because of my Husband, God's Son. But-
You and Spivy believe you can do anything and everything and it is OK cause Jesus paid the price. Your right, He did, but abusing it like you want to, makes me nervous. I'm nervous that if I live that way I might hear "depart from me I never knew you" or I might think I have enought oil for my lamp, but run out. You know what I mean?
You are SO far off, not to mention the fact that your message is neither loving nor does it promote unity. Folks that "strain at knats" are going to have to answer to the Lord for the divisions they have caused. You may not want to answer this email, but I hope you will answer and show me where and how the Bible precludes singing during Communion or precludes humming or the singing of solos. Paul, in fact seems to advocate solos
In 1 Corinthians 11:4 Paul speaks of the "uncovered prophesiers." These were called the Mad Women of Corinth.
In verse 11 he begins to speak of "when you SYNAGOGUE" or come together. By direct command of Christ in Spirit there was never a "praise service" in the synagogue. Pretty simple: the synagogue (Paul's term) or ekklesia had no praise service: they were both for hearing and discussing resources from a HIGHER AUTHORITY.
The command was to SPEAK: what disciples do in a school of Christ. Speak radically outlaws rhetoric, poetry or music. No one ever denied that but imposed SINGING as an ACT (that legalism word) in the year 373. That divided the West from the East even until today. Therefore, you have to ASSUME the role of singing while the elders "teach that which has been taught." The PATTERNISM for the synagogue, ekklesia and church for centuries was.
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time
......hath in every city them
......that preach him,
......being read in the synagogues
......every sabbath day.
The RESTORATION (begun by John Calvin) demand which would allow unity of everyone.
CHURCH: is a School of Christ
Worship: is reading and musing the Word.
Paul defined that pattern to all of the churches.
1Cor. 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not,
......hat ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
1Cor. 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church,
......I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1Cor. 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you,
......that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
NOW NOTICE WHAT THE POPULAR WRITERS MISSED:
1Cor. 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place,
......this is NOT to eat the LORD'S supper. [belonging to the LORD]
This has proved to historic scholars that the STATED PURPOSE for the assemby (synagogue) was to READ the Word and PREACH or EVANGELIZE with the Lord's Supper remembering the DEATH of Christ.
As simple as the Holy Spirit could guide Paul
They did NOT come together to eat the LORD'S supper but their own. The Agapae as well as GIVING was on the First Day of the Week as the first WORK DAY when the DESTIITUTE went out seeking a day job.
1Cor. 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other HIS OWN SUPPER
......and one is hungry,
......and another is drunken.
One's OWN supper is and was OUTLAWED for the assembly of the church.
IDIOS (g2398) private or separate, when apart, AT HOME, when they were ALONE
1Cor. 11:22 What? have ye not houses [your own house] to eat and to drink in?
......or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not?
......What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.>
A. They did NOT assemble to eat the LORD'S Supper
B. They brought their OWN "major meal" to CHURCH.
......Therefore they DESPISED the house of GOD
C. They ate their MEAL which belonged IN THEIR OWN HOUSES
......Methuo means to be FILLED or STUFFED but if it means DRUNK then
......Paul is REPUDIATING the WINE and not establishing a PATTERNISM
D. in front of STARVING people. Destitute.
E. Paul said THE MEAL does NOT belong to replace the LORD'S supper where HE shared one small cup and one small loaf 12 ways.
G3983 peina pi-nah'-o From the same as G3993 (through the idea of pinching toil; pine); to famish (absolutely or comparatively); figuratively to crave:be an hungered.
G3993 pens pen'-ace From a primary peno (to toil for daily subsistence); starving, that is, indigent:poor. Compare G4434 .
Being a Jew, here is what Paul understood and taught for us:
1 Cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you,
That the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread:
Notice that the PURPOSE of the Bread (not connected with the original Passover)
Remember the feast of unleavened bread which came at the same time?
1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said,
Take, eat; this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in REMEMBRANCE of me.
HUMAN'S ARE LIMITED: if someone hums, whistles, sings or playes they you give ALL of your brain power to that: whether you know it or not, the brain is trying to keep track of ever tone, overtone, hiss, vocal talent, judging the correctness and EVERYTHING. You CANNOT think of two things at once. The SINGERS know very well that they are sucking up all of the mental air in the church.
Not yet so there is no connection with the Passover. The Passover was for the Jews in connection with their redemption from Egypt when God's RIGHTEOUSNESS would have left them there to self destruct. To escape they had to "quit whining" about "stand still and see God do it" but "Lift up your arm and march into and under the water. They were baptized or hidden from the Egyptians as "sin personified" and AFTER reaching the other side they were guided by THE Holy Spirit of Christ and then FED.
1. 1 Cor 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup,
...... when he had supped, saying,
......This cup is the NEW TESTAMENT in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it,
......in remembrance of me.
Passover which had been REPLACED by the bread and wine by the Jews after Babylon, but it was observed by Jesus and the disciples with a KILLLED PASSOVER or roasted lamb. To be BIBLICAL there would be no wine.
2. 1 Cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lords death till he come.
......G364 anamnesis an-am'-nay-sis From G363 ; recollection:.. remembrance (again).
......G363 anamimnesko an-am-im-nace'-ko From G303 and G3403 ;
...... to remind; reflexively to recollect: call to mind, (bring to, call to, put in), remember (-brance
Not to remember the Passover of the Jews which they abrogated by rising up to Play in musical idolatry. This is perhaps God's MARK when you hear the whistling, humming, singing or instruments (weapons) during the Lord's Supper intended to PREVENT you from thinking about Jesus and HIS DEATH.
The word SHOW FORTH is not theatron or a SPECTACLE but:
......G2605 kataggello kat-ang-gel'-lo From G2596 and the base of G32 ;
......to proclaim, promulgate:--declare, preach, shew, speak of, teach.
How can you DISCERN THE BODY of Christ and His living Body the church of Chrisit of which HE is the Spirit or Mind or Head and connect yourself to a BODILY rescue which had no connecition to their DISCERNMENT or CONDUCT?
1 Cor 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily,
......shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
IF YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO WHAT HAS ONLY ENTERTAINMENT VALUE, DON''T YOU SAY THAT JESUS IS NOT WORTHY OF "Resting with me for ONE HOUR?"
Anaxios (A), on, also a, on freq. in Att.:I. of persons, unworthy, not deemed or held worthy; anaxion sou too good for thee,
The word RECRUCIFY means to "create anxiety or arouse mental excitement" which music DOES.
1 Cor 11:28 But let a man examine himself,
and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
Examine is Dokimazo. prove for onself, choose, approve, sanction, think fit to do.
What you MUST do is ask yourself: Is this the RIGHT thing do do? Do I REALLY understand the meaning of the DEATH of Jesus Christ.
How can you do that when the agents mouth or mutter or sing or play? Isn't that the ULTIMATE show of contempt? It is a MARK.
The Lord's Supper was being observed improperly when they came together TO BREAK BREAD. This was part of the teaching part and not a common meal.
1 Cor 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lords body.
......G371 anaxios an-ax-ee'-oce Adverb from G370 ; irreverently: unworthily.
...... G4983 soma so'-mah From G4982 ; the body (as a sound whole),
......used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: bodily, body, slave.
Hebrews 12 calls us back to the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai:
Whose voice then SHOOK the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet ONCE MORE I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. Heb 12:26
And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the REMOVING of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken [a trumpet-like word] may remain. Heb 12:27
Wherefore we RECEIVING a KINGDOM which cannot be moved, let us have GRACE,
whereby we may SERVE God acceptably with REVERENCE and godly fear: Heb 12:28
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What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?
There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.
This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison
Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource
references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least
you will recognize the signs early on.
Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't
know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.
Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was
one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.
It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of
it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word
of Jesus Christ.
At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority
of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly
They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and
to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.
The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan.
Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books,
seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change
so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....
At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to
be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched
through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the
"Community Church Movement"
Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready,
or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the
plans very nature, it had to be secret.
The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was
never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last
15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.
The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the
elders went along unwittingly.
This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell
something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill
in some of the timeline.
To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the
background materials in the first of the book.
This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be
printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our
web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison
Here is the list of players;
5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)