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SPEAKING psalms, hymns and Spiritual Odes

March 10 2012 at 4:05 PM
Anonymous  (Login Ken.Sublett)
from IP address

I am starting a new thread because people are skeptical about defining Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual Odes the as not defining "musical worship" when the assembly is clearly defined as a School of the Word of Christ in the Prophets and Apostles.

Greg: I have posted the "overkill" data on the meaning of Hymns. You can click on most of these links and go to the real literature to validate the fact that hymning was SPEAKING unless one adds SINGING and then a word for HYMN. Harps or Lyres are always excluded and flutes must be added to the words for hymning. There is no single word for singing and playing and the name of an instrument.

Being a disciple means I have no interest beyond reading the text and seeing what the words meant to the writers of the time.

I have posted some data on Speaking Psalms Hymns and Odes here.

Follow up question on the viewpoint of no command to sing...

What is the Greek word used in Acts 16:25 for "sang hymns"? Is that the singing we understand. If it is then Paul and Silas were singing and praying? And it had to have been out loud as "the prisoners were listening." I don't want to assume too much here but they are Apostles and "two or more were gathered." Wouldn't this event constitute a worship service with singing out loud as part of it?

They "hymned"" which has various meanings: here it means "reciting a form of the Law" and means to recite hymns which were types in the BOOK of Psalms. Like all such words it is without singing unless indicated, never means with a lyre and with a flute only when intending to create anxiety.

When Jesus and the apostles "hymned" the word is DICO or speak. There is no word which INCLUDES a musical instrument unless one commands to [1] hymn [2] WITH a named [3] instrument. Any simple simon would know how to command group singing WITH a musical instrument. To try to force the Spirit to give us aid and comfort for sowing discord and stopping the teaching-admonishing pattern would seem to be blasphemy. Jeremiah 23 has Christ defining saying something that God did not say is blasphemy.

Additionally, I Cor. 14:26 regarding orderly worship alludes to, and some versions actually use the word "sing" in part of what occurs when the church meets together. Is it too much of a stretch doctrinally to infer some idea or possible command of singing from these passages from example and direct inference? I know nothing of the Greek here. I don't want to bind a command to sing if there really isn't one, but want to look further at your position of singing not being required by God for the worship.

We have a historical record of the first introduction of singing (other than speaking psalms) as an ACT of liturgy in 373 long after Constantine began paying pagan priests to become clergy often without baptism.

Hymnody developed systematically, however, only after the emperor Constantine legalized Christianity (AD 313); and it flourished earliest in Syria, where the practice was possibly taken over from the singing by Gnostics and Manichaeans of hymns imitating the psalms. The Byzantine Church adopted the practice; in its liturgy, hymns maintain a much more prominent place than in the Latin liturgy; and Byzantine hymnody developed complex types such as the kanon and kontakion (qq.v.; see also Byzantine chant). Saint Ephraem--a 4th-century Mesopotamian deacon, poet, and hymnist--has been called the "father of Christian hymnody." Britannica Online

In the West, St. Hilary of Poitiers composed a book of hymn texts in about 360. Not much later St. Ambrose of Milan instituted the congregational singing of psalms and hymns, partly as a counter to the hymns of the Arians, who were in doctrinal conflict with orthodox Christianity. In poetic form (iambic octosyllables in four-line stanzas), these early hymns--apparently sung to simple, possibly folk melodies--derive from Christian Latin poetry of the period. By the late Middle Ages trained choirs had supplanted the congregation in the singing of hymns. Although new, often more ornate melodies were composed and many earlier melodies were elaborated, one syllable of text per note was usual. Some polyphonic hymn settings were used, usually in alternation with plainchants, and were particularly important in organ music.

 Respond to this message   
Response TitleAuthorDate
 Re: SPEAKING psalms, hymns and Spiritual OdesAnonymousMar 10, 2012, 11:28 PM
  I forget?ken sublettMar 11, 2012, 4:23 PM
 Re: SPEAKING psalms, hymns and Spiritual OdesBrian CadeMar 11, 2012, 12:13 AM
  We answered that on another thread:Ken SublettMar 16, 2012, 11:50 AM
   Response to question: can you speak and sing at the same time? NOKen SublettMar 16, 2012, 8:52 PM
    Re: Response to question: can you speak and sing at the same time? NOAnonymousMar 18, 2012, 4:07 PM
     Speaking is not singingKen SublettMar 18, 2012, 5:25 PM
      Re: Speaking is not singingAnonymousMar 23, 2012, 10:43 PM
  Brian CadeGregMar 27, 2012, 4:57 PM
   Re: Brian CadeAnonymousMar 28, 2012, 2:53 AM
    But!Ken SublettMar 28, 2012, 1:29 PM
     RE: But!GregMar 28, 2012, 4:45 PM
      That's itKen SublettMar 28, 2012, 8:54 PM
       Re: That's itGregMar 29, 2012, 1:12 PM
        Speaking is speakingKen SublettMar 29, 2012, 4:02 PM
         Re: Speaking is speakingKen SublettMar 29, 2012, 4:14 PM
          Re: Speaking is SpeakingGregMar 30, 2012, 1:27 PM
           Re: Speaking is SpeakingKen SublettMar 30, 2012, 2:09 PM
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