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Original Message
  • Sometimes, It Does Matter

    • Posted Oct 9, 2006 3:38 PM

      The points mades in an earlier message by "Does it Matter" are something of a mixed bag. It seems unwise to imply those with whom there is disagreement are (always?) guilty of being "short-sighted," (always?) ignoring the "whole other side," and that a "simple understanding of history and culture" would (apparently?) alleviate all disagreements.

      The initial points about the KJV, on the whole, are accurate. And, yes, this would seem to be an uncomfortable truth for many who post on this site.

      The point "We do not follow the same basic traditions, rituals, or practices" may or may not be an accurate reflection of the current state of the churches of Christ. The difficulty is discerning exactly which "traditions, rituals, or practices" the author is addressing.

      Yes, when Paul speaks of the scriptures the scriptures before many/most of his initial readers would be studying would be the O.T. Are you arguing the author meant to imply the works of the N.T. are uninspired or are not to be considered scripture-- so what, exactly, is the point? Paul went to the Synagogues, opened the scriptures, and preached Jesus (not the Jewish law).

      If it is that the Gentile Christians kept the Feast Days, "Baptized" simply because it was a Jewish tradition, and that the Lord's Supper/Meal (Eucharist, Communion, etc.) was simply a matter of following Jewish traditions, rituals, or practices he may have some difficult "proving" this point to the satisfaction of all based on scripture or tradition.

      Paul appears to argue rather vociferously in Galatians, a book many feel was one of his first, that Gentiles do NOT have to follow Jewish traditions, rituals, or practices.

      Later, in Colossians 2:16, he again argues that no one is to pass judgment upon another based on observance of "feast days" (specifically mentioned by "Does it Matter").

      Also, similarities between Jewish ceremonial washings, the practices of the Essenes, and John's baptism (whose mission was in preparation of the Messiah) does not mean "baptism" was practiced because it was "Jewish" any more than the New Testament being written in Koine Greek proves baptism was practiced because of any Greek antecedents.

      The arguments concerning the Lord's Meal are based on Church traditions that arose after the first century and are nowhere validated in the text of the Bible.

      While much of what is found on this site reflects poor scholarship and rather convenient juxtaposing of unrelated historical bits of trivia, the claim concerning "Scholars" disputing "any" (all?) claims on this site is a bit much. Yes, much is disputable. But, unfortunately, even your reply contains some bits of historical inaccuracy that are too conveniently constructed to make your point.
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    ...........................THE BOOK

    What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


    There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

    This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

    Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
    Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

    Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

    It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

    At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

    They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

    The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

    At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

    Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

    The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

    The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

    This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

    To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

    This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

    Here is the list of players;

    5 Godly Elders
    10 Not so Godly Elders
    120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
    2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
    2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
    Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
    Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
     

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