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  • Ray, your thoughts on the survey results?

    • Posted Jun 6, 2008 12:34 AM

      Ray,

      You brought up 3 issues in response to my earlier post regarding “the survey and the FCCC website:

      • The accusation that it is NOTChrist-like,” e.g., to question the congregation’s eldership’s goals and objectives for the church—one of which is already obvious: restructuring the body of Christ in the locality. An example of this is the “experimentation”—let’s see, not necessarily what God authorizes, but what some members would like to experience with the use of inanimate and lifeless musical machines in the assembly. Why that process is considered restructuring? Because it has not been there in the congregation and in the brotherhood all along; the New Testament teaches to “let the word of Christ dwell in us richly, teaching and admonishing one another” in singing. Apparently, the musical machines are incapable of “teaching and adnominishing.”

        Currently, the leadership is having its members experience the “Boiling Frog Syndrome.” The illustration of the point “that moving too recklessly and aggressively may leave one with an empty pot, but traversing a steadier course of more gradual change is much more likely to bring about the desired result.” To further simplify:

          ”The frog’s body temperature follows its surroundings. If you put the frog directly in boiling water, it will sense the heat immediately and jump out. But when you heat the water slowly, the frog keeps adjusting to the rising temperature. When the heat is too much for the frog to take, it is too late. The frog collapses and dies.”

        Ray, you can avoid the pervasive issue all you want, but you should know that the brotherhood is keenly noticing the directives coming from Rick Atchley, Max Lucado, Ronnie Norman, et al.

      • You claim that I “erroneously stated” the following:

          Why not simply teach what the New Testament plainly teaches that there is no forgiveness of sins in Christ’s blood without FIRST being “BURIED WITH CHRIST in baptism and RESURRECTED (RISEN) WITH HIM” to begin newness of life? Rather than give the impression as the Baptists believe and teach that baptism is a form of obedience AFTER one has already been forgiven of sins and become a Christian? [While I realize that longtime members of FCCC know the truth better than what the website suggests, nonetheless, it is deceptive on the part of the leadership to proclaim such a message of salvation.] If I am wrong by making that assumption, then the leaders need to make the message plain and scriptural.

        So, mentioning what the “Baptists believe and teach” is repulsive to you? Sorry, but you probably should have learned by now that when a Baptist or the FCCC website says that “baptism is clearly commanded as part of the process of accepting Christ as Lord and Savior,” non-members would automatically perceive that one is SAVED (sins are forgiven) when he “accepts Jesus Christ as his personal Savior.”

        Ray, the site’s text that I quoted in particular needs to be revised and to reflect what the New Testament teaches about baptism. The particular text also needs to reflect whatever and wherever else the website teaches about baptism that agrees with the New Testament. Remember when I said, “ If I am wrong by making that assumption, then the leaders need to make the message plain and scriptural.” Simply, that baptism is designed FOR or UNTO [for, so that, in order that, to, TOWARD] the forgiveness of sins in the Savior’s blood. It is not good enough to state that baptism is by immersion and is commanded (which the Baptist and other faiths teach also) without appending the truth that it is for the purpose of having sins remitted in His blood (and the Baptist and other faiths do not teach such purpose).

        Ray, in case you’re still confused as to which particular text regarding baptism I’ve been referring to, please follow this link: (a) NEW TO FCCC, then (b) MEMBERSHIP. The middle paragraph states [with emphases by d.c.]:

          We ask of our members only what scripture asks of church members: faith in Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior, love for one another, a willingness to follow Christ’s teachings, and Christian baptism (Matthew 28:18-20). At First Colony, we practice baptism by immersion and if you have never been immersed in baptism as a believer before, you will get the opportunity to do so.

        This message is addressed to those who are “new to FCCC.” And just what is “Christian baptism” when the Scripture teaches that one is baptized in order to become a Christian? Is “love for one another” a requisite to “Christian baptism”? Is baptism subsequent to one’s being already a Christian? Plus, in that text, the purpose of baptism is not specified to someone new [including someone from another faith] to FCCC—that is UNTO the forgiveness of sins.

      • With regard to the eldership, you were comparing apples and oranges. You missed my point completely. My point was not about the church’s “goal to have approximately 1 elder per 100 members.” It does not matter how many elders are/have been appointed. My point was simply about the “trend”—that almost 70% of the total number of elders has been chosen in the last 3 years, especially since Ronnie Norman was the first of the 70% to use the “office of a bishop.” Your own “centurion” concept does not compute in this regard.

      Alright, you haven’t made comments about the survey. You haven’t justified the purpose or reason for the survey and why the leadership is even making an attempt to experiment with something that they should—of all folks—KNOW and be fully AWARE is POTENTIALLY RISKY, CONTROVERSIAL and DIVISIVE.
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