What's Happening At Buckingham Road Church of Christ?

I don't know what is happening but I am going to put my prophetic "gift" to a test.

I prophesy that they have one of those LOCUSTS just hatched out of ACU separating those with the mark of the WORD of God from the MARK OF MUSIC.

You do know that the beginning-time prostitue, musical enchater was the NACHASH and SHE was not a snake. She is identified as LUCIFER as the king/queen of Tyre and Babylon as the "harp playing prostitute." She is ZOE or SOPHIA- ZOE as the Babylonian Mother of the Gods.

She will be the end time Babylon whore of Revelation 18.

Abaddon or Apollyon brings the LOCUSTS (cymbal noise) up to do the END-TIME separation.

Abaddon or Apollyon is the Greek Apollo associated with Hermes or Mercury as the LOGOS. They are the fathers of shooting arrows (twanging bowstrings), musicl harmony, liars and thieves. The non-musical SERVICE the Levites performed on their way to Assyria and Babylon is defined as ABAD which is hard bongage of Abaddon.

As musicians, liars and thieves they have no trouble taking the Bible and perverting it to their own destruction and the destruction of God's sightless people. The Judas bag was "for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments" and who was prophesied as trying to TRIUMPH over Jesus with "musical instruments and making a joyful noise before the Lord." This WAS NOT worship but the "warriors chant to induce panic."

To see how many seem to be hatched out of ACU, click here:

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Music.html

One of their PROOF WORDS is NAGAN which is directly related to musical and sexual perversion:

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Nagan.html

This word is used twice to condemn Israel's worship as religious prostitution: just spitting into God's face.

Because of Israel's MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai, God turned them over to worship the STARRY HOST. A primary God was SATURN or Krnos or SATAN.

"To those who were initiated the god was revealed; to all else he was hidden. Now, the name Saturn in Chaldee is pronounced Satur; but, as every Chaldee scholar knows, consists only of four letters, thus--Stur. This name contains exactly the Apocalyptic number 666:--

S = 060
T = 400
U = 006
R = 200
----------
----666

Both Saturn (the rise of SABBATH SERVICES) and the S.U.N. god Apollo were known as LAT for Latin. Therefore, Apollo who MARKS his victims with a "singing arrow" bears the name of 666. And you are there for the kill.

Let me know!

Ken Sublett

Could you please tell me what planet you come from? I am totally lost when you begin to describe all of that mythological (definitely not biblical) jargon. I am 61 years young and was reared in a C of C (non-instrumental). Later I married and my husband was an elder in the coc. After enduring long years of gossip, deceit and politics, we are now serving in a Christian Missionary Alliance. We have seen the opposite of all of that "jargon" talk and actually have fellowship and support the Lord's work daily.
Thank you, Lord. It is not about driving people into a "church" it is about "leading" them to the Lord. Satan is a "driver".....Jesus is a Shepherd and Shepherds "LEAD". I pray for all of you. In His Love, Fran

The last time I read about covenants was in the Salem Witch Trials....any similarity??? Please consider praying with an open heart to what the Holy Spirit has to say to you, and do not have itching ears for only what you want the scriptures to agree with you on. I noticed that this message has to be censored by ?

Bless you Ms. Francia. I just happen to stumble on to this site one day. Some of the posts on here are a bunch of jibberish and they mostly come from Donnie Cruz and Kenneth Subblett. They speak of Greek gods and ancient history that no one really cares about and has nothing to do with anything really. Thank you for speaking your mind and being so bold and for loving the Lord. God Bless!

Scott

I am a member of B.R.C.O.C. and I feel this entire site is a hoax to have people buy a book. You are not even a member at this church, and therefore have no idea what is happening there, Who are you to admonish our elders or to have an opinion posted. Maybe you are the one we should fear. I am sure you are the "moderator" for postings and therefore this wont even be posted.

I know of no book for sale. If you are referring to the book of what happened at Madison Church of Christ, it is all available online for FREE.

The purpose of this website is to educate the brotherhood about the Community Church Movement.

Learn the buzzwords here so that you will be aware when they are used in your church. There is a definite pattern to the changes.

Prayerfully Onward,

Kevin

If you don't know what's going on at the church, don't try to casue a problem. Your first sentence gives you away, I don't know. Then you try to create a problem. You don't tell us who you are other than a name. You admit that you have never even been to the church there, then how do you know that we have a problem. This is the kind of message that is fueled by Satan, pray that you can be forgiven and then flee from Satan.

I am a member at Buckingham Road church of Christ.

I received a postcard today (25 Sep 02) as did several other members. I entered the "concerned members" website and read most of the information/allegations to which the different hyperlinks led me. If true, it is unfortunate that this has happened within the brotherhood. What I do know is that there are a lot of "postings" are "waaaay over my head" and probably only serve to confuse rather than clarify issues.

I agree with the "watchman" idea. I hope that my brothers and sisters at BRCC agree with me that being wary of the wiles of our common enemy, Satan, is apropos.

However, I do not agree that anything is happening at BRCC which would warrant its appearance on this website. I hope other members from BRCC would also post here to either verify/deny my statement.

Thank you.

I am a member of the Buckingham Rd. church.

The Bible says that if you have something against your brother (or sister), go to them and talk it over, just between the two of you. If they refuse to listen to you, take along one or two others. If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church. If they still refuse, let them be as a pagan or a tax collector. Is this the way you folks have address the problem? No!

We have a loving congregation--in love with the Lord, in love with His people, and in love with the truth of God's Word. We submit to Christ and to one another.

This is what attracted my family and me to Buckingham Road, and the more we have found out, the more impressed we are.

God wants us to grow in Christ, to maintain sound (healthy) doctrine, and to reach out to the lost. Buckingham Road is doing these three things as well or better than any congregation I know of.

May God's Spirit continue to bless us as we submit to the Father's will as revealed in the Holy Scriptures.

To all members at Buckingham Road Church of Christ:

I am not a member at BRCC, but I lived in that area of North Dallas for 5 years and am very familiar with your church. You have a history of being a strong solid church, possibly a little more conservative than the church I attended.

Pay no attention to what is said on this sight regarding what may or may not be going on at Buckingham Road. Your elders are the ones to follow and believe, not Brothers Sublett and Cruz. These men are in Tennessee and have been connected to some of the problems at the Madison Church. They argue, accuse, and blast and much of what at least one of these men says makes very little sense in light of what's happening even in the most liberal of churches of Christ (i.e. connecting praise teams to the worship of pagan gods and sexual rites, etc.).

Continue to serve the Lord and remain true to the work he has called you.

God Bless,

James Kisner

The appearance of this link on this site related to Buckingham Road Church of Christ is evidence that there are problems there. It wouldn't have been added unless someone from Buckingham Road Church of Christ had requested it.

I noticed that Mr. Kisner stated "Continue to serve the Lord and remain true to the work he has called you" and not to remain true to the Word. Very revealing statement, Mr. Kisner.

Prayerfully Onward,

Kevin

The fact is I am not afraid of truth at all. Truth will stand or fall on its own merit, regardless of this website.

Kevin, are you a member at Buckingham Road? Do you live near Buckingham Road Church? Do you know ANYONE at Buckingham Road? Could it be that someone posting on this site simply has an ax to grind with the leadership at Buckingham Road Church of Christ? I don't think that the acid test of whether a church has problems, doctrinal or otherwise, is that someone from a church posts a message on this site. That's the equivalent of saying that sitting in a henhouse makes one a chicken.

I would also add that "being true to the work God has call you," would be equal to being true to the word of God. The Bible is our guide, and it IS the truth.

Sincerely,

James

These are quotes from Mr. Kisner on another thread:

"I will say here however, that those of us who advocate a more contemporary worship style must be careful that we don't let our emotions BECOME the basis for our worship. Nor should we "work the crowd." For example, when I lead worship I never make people feel forced to do what they don't feel comfortable doing, such as clapping, raising hands, saying Amen, etc. Although that does happen in the church where I am worship minister, it comes from the worshipper and not from me. Neither do I discourage such (nor do our elders - they are the sheperds, and as such, the leaders of the flock - not me)."

"I believed in clapping, shouting, and raising hands long before it ever became a glint in most of the church of Christ worship leaders' eyes."

You may read the entire post here:

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=150389&messageid=999128186&lp=1033780935

Prayerfully Onward,

Kevin

I came back to this site to check on "new" postings.

What I find is that Kevin Hamm's posting of "Where does Mr. Kisner stand" and James Kisner's reply have "miraculously" been posted with a date of October 29.

I say "miraculously" because these IDENTICAL messages were posted approximately two weeks ago. It appears that we should be "watchmen" not only of what's happening in our individual congregations but also of those in the public domain who "allegedly" are "helping" us be watchmen!!

Is it the intent of the "moderators" of this website (concernedmembers.com) to mislead the public by re-posting "old" messages as if they were "new" to give an impression that "new" messages are being posted all the time?

Is this not the same type of "secret" practices that are being alleged other people (non-moderators) are being accused of doing?

Is this not a type of "false" teaching that the moderators of this website are practicing to try and foment dissension?

Is this not what Jesus was talking about as recorded in Matthew 7:15-20?

"...I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt. 7:23

=============================
Message From The Moderator

You sound like a sick puppy! For technical reasons many posts had to be deleted and re-entered.
Therefore the dates may not reflect the actual dates accurately.

I would encourage anyone who read Kevin Hamm's previous post,"Where Does Mr. Kisner Stand?" to please click on the link he provided and read my entire post on the other site. That will provide a context from where I am coming.

As the excerpt from my post suggests, yes, I do believe that clapping, singing, shouting, saying Amen, hallelujah, raising hands in praise, etc., are appropriate in worship, provided they come from the worshipper's heart and are not superficially produced by a worship leader or minister. I don't believe in working the crowd to get what you want. I don't even like it when preachers say "And the church says ________," and he expects the church to respond with "Amen!" Our minister does that, and it irks me, however, it's not a sin, it's just something I don't care for.

Just as a reminder, this link supposedly was started to discuss what's going on at the Buckingham Road Church of Christ in the North Dallas area. I don't think that what I believe or "where I stand" has any bearing on that. I simply came to the defense of this fine congregation. Buckingham Road is a strong congregation of the Lord's people. While I am sure that they have problems from time to time, I very seriously doubt, based on my knowledge of the church, that such problems would be of the character and magnitude mentioned in these threads. I fear this site may be becoming a site that will cause harm in otherwise peaceful churches. Buckingham road has a very traditional service, if I remember correctly, and they have every intention of keeping it that way. They have a strong, godly eldership, and a supportive membership, and they ARE people of the BOOK. Though I would probably differ with them regarding worship styles and practices, I could worship and serve the Lord there most effectively. I simply would abide by the leading of the elders of that church. My whole point is that the fact that Buckingham Road's name appears here does NOT mean they are having problems.

In each post, I give my personal email. If anyone wants to know where I stand, email me. However, that is not the purpose of this discussion thread as I see it.

J. Kisner

Many honest people may not know what their preachers (lots seem connected to ACU) believe. For instance, Rubel Shelly, whom many of your preachers consult for the latest NEW VISION FOR THE CHURCH seen because WE HAVE NEW GLASSES, confess to being post modern. That means that ALL TRUTH but seven facts ABOUT Jesus has been sifted through philosophy and the WRITER'S own personal agenda so that the REST of the Bible has been declared as having NO AUTHORITY except as you perhaps flip it upside down to make YOUR OWN NARRATIVE THEOLOGY. Your life and your "beliefs" CONFIRM your new faith system just as the first century AFFIRMED John and others.

This means that we are living in the postmodern world which is defined as post-Christendom and post Biblical.

Therefore, while they use PROOF TEXTS they have run ahead of the Bible. That is why there is so much confusion. But look at some facts for those who still use the OLD OBSOLETE BIBLE as authority. Believe me, those control agents with training in philosophy and communications do not know nor do they care.

Baptists have tended to DIVIDE UP TERRITORY but we don't accept that Texas is off limits because much of the TERRORISM was learned in Tennessee: a city set on seven hills with its own temple of Dianna and a real Dianna presiding. Max Lucado holds out hope for Lucifer who is the ZOE character and Rubel Shelly wants to BAPTIZE the S.U.N. god in place of the S.O.N God. As Saturn or Santa his number is 666.

Why is it that probably not one Hired Servant in the "brotherhood" leading THEIR churches into pagan worship have a clue to the sequence of events of the Old Testament? Why is that Mr. K and others are so hostile in trying to discredit any DIALOG which is the operative Biblical word and NOT preaching?

Especially the doctors of the law missed the point that Israel was not worth rescuing from Egypt but God did it to protect His own Name. Leaving them in Egypt sullied His name because they were worse than the NATIONS. When God brought them out of Egypt He restored the Covenant Made with Abraham. This was a covenant of grace. However, Israel ROSE UP TO PLAY in musical idolatry, worshiping the STARRY HOST. Therefore, God gave them the law and TURNED THEM OVER to the worship they lusted for.

The early and end-time WANDERING STAR and his agents had the number of 666 in the original Chaldee.

When the ELDERS fired God and demanded a king, God warned them but hand picked kings "in His anger" to lead the nation into captivity and death.

The Jerusalem Temple was quite identical to most temples and had many of the features of the Tower of Babylon because THAT was where God had sentenced them to go. Solomon sold cities to Tyre representing Lucifer, the harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden and the "musicans" were the slave drivers to force slave labor (even Hebrews) to build a temple to store all of the gold to be looted withing 5 years of Solomon's death and which led to CIVIL WAR.

However, neither the Jewish instrumentalists not called musicians but EXCELLERS or SLAVE DRIVERS and their SERVICE not worship but HARD BONDAGE, nor the vilest of pagan temple-states ever went into the Holy Place which was a carnal type of the spiritual church or Body of Christ.

The NOISE MAKERS served out in the court helping to slaughter and burn animals. Their SERVICE was a prophetic type of their future SLAUGHTER of Jesus prophesied to be with musical mocking. Their judgmental work ceased absolutely..

Therefore, neither in type nor in its spiritual fulfilment did any "musician" dare to go into the Holy Place typical of the synagogue and church.

Therefore, end-time musicians who claim to LEAD YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD or aid your WORSHIP are TERMINAL because they are more arrogant than the worst of pagan temple musicians.

As the Jerusalem temple was a LIKE THE NATIONS TEMPLE as civil and military capital, the end-time IMITATION of Levitical musicians is like the nations where NATIONS meant the Babylon- influenced nations to be fulfilled by the Babylon Whore of Revelation 18. Here is a link to show that the temple was like the nations because that is what the ELDERS demanded:

http://www.piney.com/Temple-like-Nations.html

See a drawing of the temple as carnal type and the church of Christ as spiritual anti type to see that when the MUSICIANS enter into the Holy Place and claim to MEDIATE and lead you into the MOST HOLY PLACE they have fulfilled prophecy and, I fear, are beyond redemption because they are beyond repentance:

http://www.piney.com/Temple-Body.html

At least, you don't have to be the BLIND being led into the ditch of vile paganism showing contempt for Christ and for His Word. This means that you MUST NOT finance this horror.

Kenneth Sublett

I was really discouraged about all of the negative things that I've been seeing in churches. I've even contemplated dropping out.

I'm really glad that there is a website out there to encourage people like me. It really makes me look forward to Sunday.

n.b.

Are you the same James Kinser who once preached at Bedford, Indiana? If so, please resopnse.

Thank you

The passages you refer to are for personal disputes between Christians and not public teaching.

These are the passages you are referring to:

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. (KJV)

Public teaching is dealt with differently:

Tts 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

Tts 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

Tts 1:12 One of themselves, [even] a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians [are] alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

Tts 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 2:16 But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Here is the definition of contend:

To strive in opposition or against difficulties; struggle.
To compete, as in a race; vie.
To strive in controversy or debate; dispute.

Matthew 18:15-17 cannot be applied to false doctrine being taught publicly.

Prayerfully Onward,

Kevin

I have been a member of the Buckingham RD C of C for the past 5 or 6 years.

First of all, I would like to say that the love that that congregation has for the Lord and eachother is very commendable. Second of all, we have God fearing gentlemen who lead our congregation and consult God in all matters before carrying them out.
We do not appreciate the attacks on our congregation from outsiders who know NOTHING about our congregation from neither former membership or past visitation.
You say that your concern is to do God's will. Do you think attacking God's establishments with unfounded accusations is his will? I don't!
We are called by God to do everything out of love and this has not been done at all in a loving manner. I am sorry that you are unhappy with something which you know nothing about and maybe the responses of outrage you have been receiving would not be so if you had even one shred of evidence that pointed to something in our services that is not in accordance with God's perfect plan.
I have no idea what your purpose is in establishing this website which opposes the very thing that the God that you claim to serve, holds dear and has sanctified, but as far as I can see it has nothing to do with glorifying God or futhering His Kingdom. I believe that you should reevaluate your motives and fix them because you are doing more harm than good and are being used more by Satan tahn by God.

You have a good day and may God bless you and work on your heart.
Sam

This is an example of the "leadership" of these elders. They refused, for years, to mention modesty from the pulpit because they caught some flack when one of the elders did so. However, when Saturn Road came out with their letter, all of a sudden the BRCC elders decided that the subject of modesty "...merits the consideration of all Christians." And, then to use another congregation's elders' words instead of coming up with something of their own --- maybe they were "afraid" or "timid" to say that this was the way they believed.


Church of Christ
3630 Buckingham Road
Garland, Texas 75042
(972) 494-0136

Dear Member,

The Elders of the Saturn Road Church of Christ recently sent this letter to all their members. We believe that it merits the consideration of all Christians.

Saturn Road in many ways reflects the society around us. In spite of deteriorating morals and dress codes in our community, most of us want to dress properly for any occasion. If we are invited to a wedding, we usually wear our best. We are there to honor the bride and groom. If we are invited to a banquet in honor of some outstanding and well-known person, we may ask someone what we should wear.

On the first day of each week Christians assemble together in the presence of our heavenly father to worship him. Also, his son, Jesus Christ, promised that he will be present with us (Matthew 18:20). We come together to partake of the Lord's supper in
memory of the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord (I Corinthians 11: 26). During this and other assemblies, we sing praises to God; we talk to Him through the avenue of prayer, and listen to Him as He speaks to us through His inspired Word. Can you
imagine any occasion that is more joyous and yet more solemn than this? If we are concerned about the appropriate dress for social occasions, should we not give some thought about our attire when we assemble together to worship our God? We are not suggesting a dress code for those attending worship services, but we are suggesting that we think about our appearance and the occasion.

God's inspired word suggests that we dress with modesty (I Timothy 2:9). But what is modesty? Webster says that modesty is behaving according to a standard of what is proper; decent; pure; and not displaying one's body (men or women). We may differ on our idea of modesty and of what is proper dress for Christian assemblies, but please give serious and prayerful thought to this matter.

The Shepherds


In Christian love,
"Oran Isbell" "Dale Johnson"
"Ross H." "Willie Hunter"
The Elders,
"Bob Pettit"

Something to ponder:

In response to the Matthew 18 model of how to go to a brother or sister in whom you are disagreeing with something. You are to go to them as an individual. If they won't listen, you bring one or two others. If they still won't listen you go to the church. Finally, if they won't listen, you treat them as a pagan or a tax collector.

I would like to touch on our poorly treated, even more poorly constructed exegesis on this passage. How did Jesus (who gave this Matthew 18 idea to us) treat pagans and tax collectors? Go read those verses. He ate with them. Drank with them. Spent time with them. He loved them.

Go and do likewise.

As of October 2005, I have "heard" some disturbing news of current practices of this congregation. Can anyone out there (any members, but especially deacons/elders) verify or deny these allegations?

1. What happened to the $10,000 (ten thousand dollars) that came up missing from the missions (?) budget? Why does it seem like people (deacons) were "sworn to secrecy" about this misappropriation of church funds?

2. Are women now attending the church business meetings?

3. Are some women overseeing (?) church work done by some men of the congregation?

The current status of the congregation is questionable. Our numbers have been sinking over the last few years with no end in sight. Having been a member of BRCC for several years, I have seen many changes within the congregation, some good, some bad, and some apparently for the sake of change. That being said, if you really want to know what is going on with my congregation, read the paper "What Happened At The Madison Church of Christ?” It seems that over the last few years we have implemented almost all of the changes outlined in the paper. The most recent of the changes being the altering of traditional worship songs. If you have specific questions about our current worship practices, post them here, or e-mail me and I will respond as quickly as possible.

In the meantime, please pray that the Lord will preserve our congregation and lead us back to his pattern of worship.

And what exactly is that pattern?

The pattern found in the Bible for New Testament worship.

Oh, you mean in the letters written in a specific time to specific people that you've extrapolated to the 21st century.

Gotcha.

So when you say "heard" what does that mean? Gossip? Second or Third hand? Why don't you call ask them in person instead of insighting more gossip on the net. The Biblical model requires you to take it up face to face. If you don't care enought to do that then you shouldn't care enough to post pointless gossip online.

If you insist on acting like a middle schooler passing notes in class would you tell Jenny to tell Phil to tell Herry to ask Suzie if she'll go to the hay ride with me?