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Scott
(no login)
63.66.40.3

Re: Farmers Branch Church

December 19 2002, 1:56 PM 

You are way out there. Where do you come up with your jibbersih? That's all it is is jibberish! Why don't you say something that is worth reading.

 
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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.15

Farmers Branch Church

December 21 2002, 2:21 PM 

I have tried to personally communicate with the music minister at Farmer's Branch and show that every PROOF TEXT for the use of instrumental music in Spiritual worship has been terribly perverted. I just don't know why.

I read his first report after the Sabbath (Saturn is 666) worship with music and honoring the First Born on the Seventh (Saturn) day with the Lord's Supper and PRESIDE OVER females. I get the feeling that he might have worried that God was going to do something bad. No! God uses all kinds to MARK OUT for the end time.

Remember that when His messenger THRUSTS IN THE SICKLE the image is that of SATURN (666) and sickle in Hebrew is one of those NAMES OF MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS because they were ONLY useful for STEALING ONE'S INHERITANCE or "PRUNING YOUR VINES."

Shouldn't trust in growth because it was prophesied that Jesus would not CALL AN ASSEMBLY and where masses are gathered the birds or demons will circle plucking up the seed. He will only meet you "outside the camp" and Maccabees shows that both CAMPS were devoted to ZEUS and DIONYSUS or BACCHUS whose "priests" piped trying to get Jesus to sing and dance.

I have noticed that the SEED PLUCKING movement has been slightly distanced from the church. You can keep updated here:

http://www.fbextreme.com/

I couldn't miss the SYMBOLISM of the S.U.N. glasses and the urge to "Come catch some S.O.N. this Saturday." Music, even in Jerusalem, was devoted to the S.U.N. or Astrial deities of which SATURN (666) was very important in "catching" children to be DEDICATED to Satan. You will CATCH some more of this in First Maccabees.

How better to HATCH new kiddies by using THAT WHICH HAS ALREADY DESTROYED SO MANY and then USE them as fodder to feed the hired hands on the Lord's Day.

It is called EXTREME WORSHIP EXPERIENCE. Let me remind you that like movie plots, there are very few TYPES of Abomination of Desolation. These types are fulfilled in the key LOSTNESS periods of Judaism and Christianity. The Book of Maccabees proves that the TEMPLE worship at Gerezim and Jerusalem was devoted to ZEUS and Dionysus or Bacchus (The "god" of the New Wineskin).

Untruthful handling of the WORD of God is the CAUSE but MUSIC is the MARK or sign of lostness beyond redemption.

When you see "music" used AS worship you know that the same agents are promoting NEW WINESKIN worship which is the worship of the S.U.N. God (Santa, Satan).

The NEW STYLE began with the GYMNASIUM and MUSICAL IDOLATRY where both male and female "musicians" (always the Harem of the Gods) came into the Holy Place as the type of the church of Christ.

I see some connection:

http://www.piney.com/2Macc.html

If you think that I am over reaching just read Revelation 18. And be advised that God will not stop you as you separate out the different MARKS but Saturn (Sabbath) has the number 666 and he is also Apollo the father of the Seeker-Center. He was the father of musical harmony, twanging bowstrings, thieves and liars. He is Abbadon or Apollyon and the signs include the MARK of music versus the MARK of the Word.

The Biblical and other evidence written long before Moses is that once you have fallen into the MUSIC trap you have fallen and you will never get up. However, God sends strong delusions to make you keep on singing, playing and clapping.

Rejecting God's Word or covenant of Grace at Mount Sinai caused them to rise up in MUSICAL PLAY or idolatry. The BOOK OF THE LAW was the MARK imposed because of their transgression. Don't be fooled because MUSICAL worship is LEGALISTIC worship trying to PROP UP the "failing" god.

Truth ALWAYS hurts when you are soul sick: I don't intend to offend you but you must feel that you have been trapped. Satan used it on Eve in the garden. He was not a snake: he was a MUSICAL ENCHANTER as all history knows.

Ken Sublett: This is the third time and more.

 
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Patsy
(no login)
162.58.35.101

Response to all Posts

March 31 2003, 1:40 PM 

Having just today read all the posts to this original message regarding Farmers Branch and to all the liberals out there and especially to those who made their posts, I have observed that you only make your snide remarks without any scriptural references to back up your thinking. If you cannot find clapping or the use of instruments in worship to God, praise teams, "all you need is love" thinking, etc., in scripture, you need to rethink the stand you have taken. You have become another denomination. How does it feel to be in the denominational world?

 
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Sam Middlebrook
(no login)
66.13.96.110

Re: Response to all Posts

April 8 2003, 3:40 PM 

I'm simply amazed at the level of spite on this website. It seems that there are people whose sole purpose is tear apart the church, not build it up.

And to Mr. Sublett (I apologize if I'm mispelling your name, sir)...

I don't understand how you can take God-breathed scripture and pervert is as you do. My earlier post was based on Scripture.




 
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Sam Middlebrook
(no login)
66.13.96.110

Reponse to Patsy

April 9 2003, 10:57 AM 

Patsy,

Thanks for your well-thought and nicely worded response. I appreciate that though we disagree, that you keep your thoughts civil.

You did write something that troubled me. I will try to reciprocate your respectful post by doing the same (who knows, maybe we'll start a trend), and hopefully, some intelligent, relevant discussion can come out of this. I'm not looking to pick a fight, I just want to have some honest dialogue.

You said something to the effect of "all you need is love" not being a Biblically based philosphy. I agree that you need more than love, but if we are not operating out of love, then our actions are not worth anything. To act on love is the most Christ-like thing we can as believers in an unbelieveing world. I'm going to include some scriptures here to support what I'm saying...

Lev. 19:18
"You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD. "

Prov. 10:12
"Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions."

Matt. 5:44
"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"

Matt. 19:19
"HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

John 13:34
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

John 15:17
"This I command you, that you love one another."

Romans 12:10
"Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor"

Romans 13:8
"Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law."

1 Cor. 16:14
"Let all that you do be done in love."

Gal. 5:6
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love."

Phil. 2:1-2
"Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose."

Col 3:14
"Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity."

1 Tim. 1:5
"But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith."

Heb. 13:1
"Let love of the brethren continue."

1 John 3:11
"For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another"

Patsy, you and I can disagree on clapping, praise teams, instruments, and other things, but the Kindgom can't afford to have believers disagreeing on the centrality of love to our faith and actions.

Love is the essence of our faith, and when it all comes down to it, all we need as the Church is love. Everything else springs out of this. True doctrine, evangelism, worship, teaching, they all flow out of this basic principle modeled to us by Christ.

I'd love to hear your thoughts so we can discuss it further.

Mr. Sublett, I have kept my thoughts quite concise and have not rambled. I have kept the source of my comments to NOTHING BUT scripture. If you choose to reply, please do the same. Your thoughts that come from Greek mythology and other websites have no bearing on any of these conversations, and quite frankly, make no sense.




 
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Karen
(no login)
64.119.72.74

Change your name

July 31 2003, 8:26 AM 

I attended your church on Mother's Day 2002. I came away feeling that I had not worshipped God at all. I had attended a well orchestrated play. Yes, you showed a lot of love during the service, but I wanted to hear God's word preached. I did not want to see babies dedicated, hear hand clapping, or see everyone raising their hands and swaying during songs.
I did not need the lights to be dimmed during a certain part of a prayer to make me feel closer to God.
I didn't need 4 to 5 people standing up with microphones to help me sing better. I feel sorry for all the people that are going to that church and think they're doing the right thing. I feel sorry for the people who are going to that church knowing that they are teaching wrong.
Please, if you're going to continue worshipping in this way, at least take the name Church of Christ off your sign. If you do, you'll at least keep a faithful member from attending your church and missing worshipping in truth and spirit at a true Church of Christ.

Thanks.

 
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Matt Semanek
(no login)
192.133.129.254

John 13:34-35

March 8 2004, 3:56 PM 

Could you please offer some scriptures to back-up these harsh charges. Here is mine, John 13:34-35. Matt

 
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Duane Bull
(no login)
4.131.89.56

understanding

September 20 2004, 12:42 AM 

Sam,
I am a faithful member of a church of Christ in the dfw area. The one thing I would appriciate from those that write into this forum is that they all use the KJV of the
Bible. As most of the scriptures you used did not come from a KJV then it makes me confused as to how you can teach the truth about Love yet not use the true word of God.
I do know that your concluding statement is incorrect:
"Love is the essence of our faith, and when it comes down to it, all we need as the Church is love. Everthing ese spings out of this. True doctrine, evangelism, worship, teaching, they all flow out of this basic principle modeled to us by Christ".
Error taught as correct is still error. Our Faith comes from the word of God: Rom. 10:17. We do not gain faith from love. To understand the Love that God has for us we need to read his word. Love is not the center of the kingdom-- obedience is: Eccl.12:13; Josh. 24,I Sam.15:22,
Acts 5:29. If I don't obey his word love is nothing. Love will not save me from Hell. Only obeying God's word will.
Love is important as a Christian, yet we cannot not allow love to become the dominant theme in our churches. Do not be blinded by love and lose the emphesis of our mission. Which is 3 fold. 1.Seek and save the lost Luke 19:10, Matt.28:19. 2. Save ourselves I Tim.4:16, 3. Teach the word of God I Tim. 4:16, II Tim.2:15, Matt. 28:19, II Tim.3:16-17. IF you can do these things then the Love that God showed us in sending his Son to die for our sins will not be wasted.
Remember that God is a God of Love and a God of destruction for those that do not follow his word. Look to the old Testiment for examples.
God loves us and love is important to all Christians. But we must still obey his word, we must still teach the truth.
Thank you for your attention. Sorry this is late in the list but I don't have time to read everything listed here. It is always insiteful and helpful. TO those that read this note, hopefully you will all understand one thing if nothing else. Obey is more important than sacrifice II Sam.15:22(KJV).
Duane

 
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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.25

Sam's Response

April 9 2003, 11:13 AM 

Sam, Sam, you haven't quoted a single scripture. Just wanted people to know that that is NOT the truth.

Second, Sam and all, false teachers LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL the "church houses of widows." However, if the White paper full of Black lies perverts a particular passage and I quote the passage in context and prove that it is a LIE then Sam CLAIMS that to be SPITE. I think maybe Sam is a singy-clappy type and can't stand CONFLICT which is DIALOG.

Sam, that is what your THOUGHT MISLEADERS have taught you to think. They know that to RESIST the Devil and he will flee from you. And ANY opposition is like opposing "celestial beings." I am not INTIMIDATED, Sam.

Well, Sam, students of the Bible know that the overwhelming majority of the Bible is to OPPOSE false RELIGIONS. Lord Jesus Christ died to remove the very system you guys are defending. So, don't believe that LYING about your own QUOTATIONS and claiming that I have none is going to FLY.

Here is the BASIS of my REQUESTED review to refute Farmer's Branch WHITE PAPER to authorize SABBATH WORSHIP, choirs and INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC. All of THEIR proof texts are jerked out by their roots and there is not a GRAIN of truth in their list of arguments.

My rebuttal is defined by Sam as SPITE. Get over it Sam, you are DEFENDING ancient paganism condemned from Genesis to Revelation with chapter 18 speaking of the demise of the HOLY WHORE system of worship with INSTRUMENTS. Now, Sam, lest they think that I am the liar, I repost the REVIEW: count the passages.

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Music.html

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-MusicB.html

Farmer's Branch lists some of the MUSICAL terms and names of INSTRUMENTS. We will show that 100% of the terms used in the Old and New Testament have ROOTS meaning "to play the flute, pollute, prostitute, make self vile, perverted sexuality and the fact that Lucifer or Satan taught the YOUTH how to SEDUCE people away from the WORD:

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Nagan.html

See how they are EXPERIMENTING to determine AUTHORITY:

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Experiment.html

SAM, this is enough TRUTH research to FUEL your preachers for ten years or more: expecially if they spend most of the time PERVERTING IT.

Count the Scriptural quotations and tell the good people again that Ken doesn't quote.

Sam's job is to REFUTE anything that I have said to prove that MUSICAL WORSHIP DOES NOT HAVE its Satanic roots. In the Bible and history musical religious performers have the PERSONA of prostitutes or perverts.

Why doesn't SAM read the papers and tell us that that is not still the persona including so-called CCM. So, why PICK them to PRESIDE OVER YOU with their own infantile PRAISE TUNES which are identified in the earliest history as part of NECROMANCY or SOOTHSAYING or ENCHANTMENT just as the serpent in the garden of Eden was a MUSICAL ENCHANTER or ENCHANTRESS depending on whether it was Adam or Eve.

Ken Sublett

 
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Sam Middlebrook
(no login)
67.3.47.33

in all fairness...

April 9 2003, 4:26 PM 

I just wanted to say that in all fairness, it appears that Mr. Sublett's post was NOT in response to my post immediately above his, but rather, in response to my earlier post.

I think we were posting at the same time.

I appreciate your dialogue, Mr. Sublett. I am not looking to avoid it. I will take the time to read the papers that you have provided links to and will respond once I am more informed about the support for you opinions.


 
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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.32

Specific Response

April 9 2003, 6:59 PM 

JUST ONE PROOF TEXT FROM FARMER'S, Sam, for most who will not PLOUGH THROUGH the review of Farmer's Justification for music. It is typical of those who denounce non-instrumentalists for SOWING DISCORD. Their research paper is like too many sermons: they read just a verse which uses MUSIC or SINGING and PLAYING and the claim that this PROVES that the Jews ALWAYS worshiped God with SINGING and PLAYING INSTRUMENTS. That is not remotely true. For instance.

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: The Leadership's Position In Light Of The Scriptures, There are NUMEROUS REFERENCES in the Bible to SINGING with and the PLAYING of musical instruments IN WORSHIP to God.

No, that is not a fact. This paper will quote not a single passage relating to congregational singing with instruments. Children, shepherds, camp followers, magicians and prostitutes played music for fun and PROFIT. The warrior Levites "under the KING and COMMANDERS OF THE ARMY served the PRIESTS as they slaughtered and burned animals IN THE COURT. The sacrificed animals were a carnal type of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

The noise makers (not musicians) were in the COURT and not in the Holy Place. The Holy Place even as a carnal type of the church of Christ was off limits to any SINGER or MUSICIAN. The RISING UP TO PLAY at Mount Sinai was singing, playing and more. David "rose up to play" as he SEPARATED the Ark of the Covenant and brought it to Jerusalem which was a JEBUSITE HIGH PLACE because David was TOO FEARFUL of God to ever return to the Tabernacle. David was not a WORSHIP LEADER. No Israelite community EVER WORSHIPED with singing and INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC. So, why is it HATEFUL to tell you that the WHITE PAPER perverts every musical statement in the Bible? The animal slaughter with LOUD NOISE to drown out the horrors was OFF LIMITS to the common people. They worshiped by living right and practicing social justice. They went to the SYNAGOGUE (Qahal) as the "church in the wilderness" only for TEACHING and God OUTLAWED this non-music for the ASSEMBLY.

As prophesied in Psalm 41, the WARRIOR MUSICIANS tipped off by Judas would MOCK Jesus as He was being prepared for the crucifixion. The music was the ALARM or TRIUMPH OVER. This is defined as "playing instruments and 'making a joyful noise before the Lord'." This was the almost universal WARRIOR'S CHANT to create PANIC as in the story of Gideon. The Jews would accuse Jesus of being BEEL-ZEBUB (Hebrew Dung God) and then attack Him with mocking music. This is fully recorded in pre-Christian translations of the Psalm at the Dead Sea. The JUDAS BAG was always attached to a FLUTE CASE and is defined and PICTURED for you to see as meaning A CASE FOR CARRYING THE MOUTHPIECES OR 'TONGUES' OF WIND INSTRUMENTS." It is pictured in the drunken DIONYSUS KOMO with CHORUS exactly conveying the meaning when they PIPED hoping Jesus would sing and dance the DIONYSUS dance.

Here is the almost- universal meaning of what is PERVERTED to be spiritual worship:

And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper. 2 Chron 20:20

And when he had CONSULTED with the people, he appointed SINGERS unto the Lord, and that should praise the beauty of holiness, as they went out before the ARMY, and to say, Praise the Lord; for his mercy endureth for ever. 2 Chron 20: 21

Then and now music was used to panic the enemy. By the playing of instruments and singing a BOAST song you tried to convince the enemy to turn coward and surrender or run for their lives. PRAISE is the Hebrew:

Halal (h1984) haw-lal'; a prim. root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show, to boast; boast self

IT IS THE SOURCE of the word translated LUCIFER. So, be careful HOW you praise in MAKING A SHOW. The Lucifer principle is to BLEED OFF worship due only to God.

Heylel (h1966) hay-lale'; from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star: - Lucifer.

---How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Is.14:12

Imagine a troop led by bagpipers approaching your lines and you can get the "high" feeling which is not spiritual:

And when they began to SING and to PRAISE, the Lord set AMBUSHMENTS against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were SMITTEN. 2 Chron 20: 22

Here is how the DSS defines the AMBUSHMENT

[The Rule of the Trumpets: the trumpets] of alarm for all their service for the [ . . . ] for their commissioned men, 17[by tens of thousands and thousands and hundreds and fifties] and tens. Upon the t[rumpets . . . ]

[ . . . ] )8[ . . . ] 19[ . . . which ] 20 [,, . they shall write . . . the trumpets of Col. 3 the battle formations, and the trumpets for assembling them when the gates of the war are opened so that the infantry might advance, the trumpets for the signal of the SLAIN, the trumpets of 2 the AMBUSH, the trumpets of PURSUIT when the enemy is DEFEATED, and the trumpets of reassembly when the BATTLE returns.

On the trumpets for their campaigns they shall write,

"The mighty deeds of God to SCATTER the enemy and to put all those who hate justice to flight and a WITHDRAWAL of mercy from all who hate God."

But if they establish an AMBUSH for a battle formation, the three ambushing formations shall [stay at a dist]ance and not ris[e up . . . ] '3 [ . . . ] the battle.

When they [h]ear the trumpets of ALARM, the [infantry]men [shall begin to bring down the guilty casualties. Then the AMBUH shall rise up from its place and also order its [battle form]ations [ . . . 3

14 The reassembly: from the right and left, from be[hind and before, the f]our direction[s . . . ] in the battles of ANNIHILATION.
----Then the priests shall blow on the six trumpets of the SLAIN a sharp staccato note to direct the battle,
----and the Levites and all the people with rams' horns shall blow a great BATTLE ALARM together in order to MELT the heart of the enemy.

MUSIC WAS ALWAYS HATE FOR THE ENEMY: TO TRIUMPH OVER THEM. That is what is going on in apostate churches of Christ.

LOVE tells you the truth: There is no MUSIC word used in the Bible of Spiritual worship. ALL musical terms or names of instruments are derived from EVIL OR POLLUTION and are ultimately TAUGHT BY SATAN to keep people from LISTENING to the WORDS OF CHRIST. If you listen to the silly PRAISE SONGS you will be able to HEAR that it is not JESUS you are giving heed to NOR are you SPEAKING OR PREACHING TO ONE ANOTHER with "that which is written, the Word of Christ or the Spirit."

Worship in a PHYSICAL SENSE means to fall in utter SILENCE and REVERENCE on your face. You CANNOT worship while flinging your arms and playing music. You are TRIUMPHING OVER others PREVENTING their worship in THEIR spirit into which singers and players CANNOT GO: it is the THRONE ROOM where God meet us ONE PRIEST at a time.

David MEDITATED or MUSED in his heart when he worshiped. Jesus therefore said that God ONLY SEEKS those who worship in the PLACE of the human spirit as it GIVES HEED to the Spirit of Truth. The Gerezim and Jerusalem mountains were PLACES. Therefore, worship IN SPIRIT is not the pagan ENTHUS O MANIA or madness as in Corinth. Worship is in the SPIRIT which is a PLACE and not with outward show. Paul said that Christians of the Circumcised WORSHIP GOD IN THE SPIRIT and give no place for the FLESH. Musical worship is FLESH WORSHIP and true worshipers CANNOT worship IN SPIRIT or in the MIND while the children are PIPING still trying to make Christians SING and DANCE which is PAGAN.

For those who are willing to SOW DISCORD and create division all over the world just so they can do what many brag about doing--changing church into a THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMENT-any rebuttal seems unloving. And I admit that I have no tenderness in my heart for people I see as historically destructive sowers of discord. In the Book of Enoch, Jubiless etc., God reserves JUDGMENT specificially for those who let Satan lead them into SEDUCING God's holy people using music. I am not that unkind.

Ken Sublett

 
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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.134

Specific Response Two

April 10 2003, 11:18 AM 

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ PROOF TEXT: The words "psallo" and "psalmos" as used in secular Greek literature from the 5th century B.C. to the 2nd century A.D.
----apparently never referred to singing but only to the playing or the sound of an instrument.
===================================================

Even in the Attic world before PSALLO lost its image of musical perversion, it is defined just like a SONG is defined. It is METRICAL and therefore:

Psalmos (g5568) psal-mos'; from 5567;
---a set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode
------accompanied with the VOICE,
------harp or other instrument; a "psalm"); collect.
------the book of the Psalms: - psalm. Comp. 5603.

Nothing written as a modern PRAISE song qualifies. And the HUMAN VOICE is always the FIRST INSTRUMENT OF CHOICE in the Greek world which had LITTLE instrumental art. Throughout the Old and New Testaments, an INSTRUMENT is never INCLUDED in MELODY unless that instrument is NAMED. For instance:

----Am.5:23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy VIOLS

----Is.23:16 Take an HARP, go about the city, thou HARLOT that hast been forgotten; make sweet MELODY, SING many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.

Make MELODY in the HEART names the first instrument of Choice and THEREFORE EXCLUDES another INSTRUMENT.

Paul said that we should SPEAK ONE TO ANOTHER with the INSPIRED TEXT in order to TEACH (and not seduce). The melody is IN THE HEART because you CANNOT speak to teach and SING at the same time.

We first heart this false argument from Milton Jones who also turned the church of Christ into a MUSICAL church. The argument goes that Lucian of Samosata used PSALLO (melody) to include instrument long after Paul used the word. Therefore, even after KOINE Greek took over from ATTIC Greek the word STILL included instruments. JONES Quotes:

The false Proof-Text: "You cannot psallein (or psallo) WITHOUT an instrument"

First, it is perfectly clear that Lucian was a SYRIAN who learned ATTIC Greek and used it in Greece because it was still the ARISTOCRATIC language. If you wanted to sell your speeches to KINGS you wrote in Attic. All public speakers and musicians were known as PARASITES or SPONGERS.

Next, since I have a four volume set of Lucian I can quote it to make sense. Lucian, also a PARASITE, actually wrote of HIS art of SPONGING:

"Other arts, again, are useless to their professor unless he has his plant;

----you cannot PLAY the FLUTE if you HAVE NOT ONE to play;

----LYRICAL music requires a LYRE,
----horsemanship a horse.

----But of ours (sponging selling speeches and songs) one of the excellences and conveniences is that

----no instrument is required for its exercise. The Parasite, 17. Translated by H. W. and F. G. Fowler, Vol III, 1905

Lyric: 1. of a lyre 2. SUITABLE for singing as to the accompaniment of a lyre. Webster

Lucian wrote about BOY worship ministers.

Alexander the Oracle Monger knew that you could pervert the "fat heads and simpletons" by just playing the flute. However, ALL "musical worship teams" consisted of men like the Pope's A Cappella choir in early days:

--The scoffer Lucian pours out his sarcasm in a passage in which he speaks of the fraudulent prophet Alexander of Abonouteichos (the Oracle Monger), who kept CHOIR BOYS in the service of the GODS with him:

--To all OTHERS he forbade pederasty (Platonic love of a man for a boy) as shameful. In order NOT to admit his OWN guilt in this matter, however, the admirable fellow devised the following scheme:

--he proposed to the cities in Paphlagonia and Pontus that every three years they should send him CHOIR BOYS who would sing hymns of praise with him to the god.

--Moreover, only the noblest, fairest and most charming boys were to be sent -- after a previous careful examination.

--These he confined with himself, slept with and abused with every possible lechery. (Lucian, Alexander, 41.247}

--Choirs were used because "Thus they led the SIMPLE into error and sought to bewitch the ears of lay people, who are easily led astray by hymns and melodies."

This is why the Jews PIPED hoping to seduce Jesus into the Dionysus SONG and DANCE. Music was the arena of the male of female PROSTITUTE and you seduced them FOR PAY and PRIVATE USE: never for true WORSHIP.

http://www.piney.com/Lucianalexander.html

THERE IS NO EXCEPTION: HISTORY KNOWS OF NO INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC IN THE POST BIBLICAL WORLD WHICH IS NOT USED BY MALE AND FEMALE PROSTITUTES OF THE "LOWER CLASSES" WHO ENTERTAINED AT FESTIVALS. NONE.

THAT IS STILL THE PERSONA OF THE MUSIC AND THEATER WORLD.

Ken Sublett

 
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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.14

Addendum to Response Two

August 11 2003, 1:12 PM 

We have discussed on other forums the fact that among the Greeks, who influenced the Jews, there was a SECT of the Pharisees, a SECT of the Scribes and a SECT of the HYPOCRITES in the group of PERFORMERS.

In the Greek world the major SECTARIANS were "rhetoricians, sOPHISts (Ophis is the SERPENT in Revelation), singers, musicians and craftsmen who made the religious theater possible. The same Greek resources identify them as the SORCERERS in Revelation. As the SERPENT in the garden is identified as a MUSICAL ENCHANTER (the harp-playing prostitute), the singers, musicians and SOPHISTS in revelation are the SERPENTS sent from hell to ENCHANT people away from the WORD of Christ.

All as a group were identified as PARASITES who aided the priests in pagan sacrificial religions. Since Jesus Christ fulfilled ALL of the types including being MOCKED with the Levitical Warrior Musicians, any religious PERFORMER is a PARASITE beyond redemption. And so, the Old Testament identifies them all as "fallen and unable to ever get back up."

We have claimed that this is the UNIVERSAL view of the Bible, the Classics and the church Fathers or theologians. ANYONE is welcomed to suggest ANYONE who did not agree other than those where FLUTE-GIRL was PROSTITUTE under the controller of the DUNG HEAP.

For instance:

John Chrysostom, born AD 347, Antioch, Syria, died September 14, 407

http://www.piney.com/FatChrysTheodLetter1.html

Parasites. The message of the Bible and most contemporaneous literature is that SATAN or LUCIFER brought wind, string and percussion instruments into the garden of Eden. That is why the SERPENT is defined by a very well-known word to be a MUSICAL ENCHANTER. The other message is that once you have FALLEN into Lucifer's SEDUCTION with music, you will NEVER get out of the seduction any better than did Eve. John Chrysostom wrote to Theodore after his fall:

"Wherefore I pray and beseech you to banish all this Satanic mode of thinking from your soul, and to return to this state of salvation. For if indeed I were commanding you to ascend to your former altitude all at once,
..you would naturally complain of there being MUCH DIFFICULTY in doing this:
....but if all which I now ask you to do is to GET UP and return thence in the OPPOSITE direction, why do you hesitate, and shrink, and make a RETROGRADE movement? Have you not seen those who have died in the midst of luxury and drunkenness, and SPORT and all the other folly of this life?

..Where are they now who used to strut through the market place with much pomp, and a crowd of attendants? who were clothed in silk and redolent with perfumes, and kept a table for their PARASITES, and were in constant attendance at the THEATER?
....What has now become of all that PARADE of theirs? It is all gone;-the costly splendour of their banquets, the throng of MUSICIANS, the attentions of FLATTERERS, the loud LAUGHTER,
......the relaxation of spirit, the ENERVATION of mind, the voluptuous, abandoned, extravagant manner of life-it has all come to an end.

"Where now have all these things taken their flight? What has become of the body which enjoyed so much attention, and cleanliness.
...Go thy way to the COFFIN, behold the dust, the ashes, the WORMS, behold the loathsomeness of the place, and groan bitterly.

"And would that the penalty were limited to the ashes! but now transfer thy thought from the coffin and these WORMS to that UNDYING worm, to the FIRE UNQUENCHABLE, to the GNASHING of TEETH, to the outer darkness, to affliction and straitness, to the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, who although the owner of so much wealth, and CLOTHED IN PURPLE could not become the owner of even a DROP of water; and this when he was placed in a condition of such great necessity.

Of the king of Babylon who is defined as a TYPE of LUCIFER, the harp- playing prostitute, Isaiah wrote:

"Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. Isa 14:9
....All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? Isa 14:10

"All your POMP has been brought down to the grave, along with the NOISE of your HARPS; MAGGOTS are spread out beneath you and WORMS cover you. Is.14:11
....How art thou FALLEN from HEAVEN, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Isa 14:12

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ASCEND into HEAVEN, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: Isa 14:13
...I will ASCEND above the heights of the clouds; I will be LIKE the most High. Isa 14:14
.....Yet thou shalt be brought down to HELL, to the sides of the PIT. Isa 14:15

MODERN Musical Worship Teams claim the power to LEAD YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD. This is the LUCIFER PRINCIPLE for which there is NO REDEMPTION. And the Bible and church scholarship knows of NO OTHER VIEW.

Ken Sublett

 
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Specific Response Three

April 10 2003, 2:54 PM 

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: In the New Testament "psallo" means to make music in praise or to sing praise to God and is translated make music. The word "psalmos" means song and is translated psalm referring almost certainly to the Old Testament Psalms. These words may imply singing with instrumental accompaniment but do not demand it.
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Only the NIV uses the word MUSIC here. And it does not translate psallo as MAKE MUSIC elsewhere. The word is MAKE MELODY and its roots speak of GRINDING THE ENEMY INTO A FINE POWDER WITH PANIC MUSIC. It derives from the TWANGING sound of yanking out the hair of an enemy. A similar word SOP speaks of the SIGN Jesus gave to Judas to make him flee: the Judas bag was "for carrying the mouth pieces of wind instruments." It was always associated with the homosexual worshipers of Dionysus.

The first Anrdt-Gingrich mistranslated Psallo. Later, when asked it turned out to be his PERSONAL PREFERENCE. I have posted some more of this RESOURCE HERE:

http://www.piney.com/MuArndt.html

When the new edition did not make the changes, Gingrich "thought that the comment makes valuable contributory information and he prefers to leave this expression." (Hugo McCord quoted by Bales, p. 115).

--"In other words, Gingrich admitted that the harp no more inheres in psallo than it does in the English word sing. Furthermore, the phrase, which was in parenthesis, was not included in their translation of psallo in James 5:13)

--"Gingrich told J. W. Roberts in a conversation in St. Louis that the insertion was his private opinion. McCord announced that the change would be made but it was not." (Bales, p. 115)

We have made a table of the PSALMS. They include calling down God's judgment, processions (condemned), new moons, vengeance, arousal or awakening the HARP, fear of being cast off, historical warnings and prophetic. Most of the Psalms are noted without instruments: the rest have no place in Christian worship.

Because they are a POETIC version of the PROSE history, most express historical fact. None are COMMANDS to be used in SPIRITUAL worship.

--"Some of the psalms express a tribalistic hatred of foreign powers; even the beautiful laments of the exiles 'by the waters of Babylon,' for example, concludes with the assurance that the daughter of Babylon will be destroyed. 'Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth the little ones against the stones.'

----"But in nearly a third of the collection the 'enemies' whose death the psalmist so confidently prays for and anticipates are not Gentile nations,

------"but individual Jews who do not share the religious conviction of the Hasidim (Pharisees). In the words of Psalm 58, 'the righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. So that a man shall say, Verily there is reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth." (Parkes, Henry Bamford, Gods and Men The Origins of Western Culture, p. 134, Knopf)

Herodotus shows the effeminate connecton and separates harp-playing and singing. It was requested of Cyrus that rather than destroy the enemy, just make them into women:

"Grant, then, forgiveness to the Lydians, and to make sure of their never rebelling against thee, or alarming thee more, send and forbid them to keep any weapons of war, command them to wear tunics under their cloaks, and to put buskins upon their legs,

--"and make them bring up their sons to cithern-playing (Kitharizein), singing (psallein), and huckstering

--"So wilt thou soon see them become women instead of men,

--"and there will be no more fear of their revolting from thee."

The only MUSIC word used in the New Testament is SUMPHONIA. It speaks of a home coming party which included singing, dancing, playing instruments, drinking wine and more. The MUSICIANS in Revelation 18 were APOLLO'S (Abaddon or Apollyon) MUSES. They had been turned into LOCUSTS or GRASSHOPPERS. In the Book of Revelation the LOCUSTS (musical performers) are turned loose to MARK those who do not have the MARK of the Word in their thinking and actions.

STRABO WROTE of the universal Greek meaning of MUSIC:

--and, fourthly, music, which includes dancing as well as rhythm and melody, at the same time,

--by the delight it affords and by its artistic beauty, brings us in touch with the divine,

--and this for the following reason; for although it has been well said that

--human beings then act most like the gods when they are doing good to others,

----yet one might better say, when they are happy; and such happiness consists of rejoicing, celebrating festivals, pursuing philosophy, and engaging in music.

See that FARMERS is just making up their own EVIDENCE:

http://www.piney.com/MuStrabo.html

THERE IS NO MUSIC WORD USED OF SPIRITUAL WORSHIP OF GOD: MUSICAL WORSHIP IS ALWAYS ASSOCIATED WITH REPUDIATING THE WORDS OF GOD. AND SO WE HAVE SILLY "PRAISE SONGS" TO REPLACE LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Kenneth Sublett

 
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Specific Response Four

April 11 2003, 11:53 AM 

Farmer's Branch: The mention of these words would undoubtedly conjure up thoughts of musical instruments in the recipients of Paul's first century letter to the Ephesians.

------Therefore, the first century Christians (writers and readers alike) would almost certainly

-----have had no problem with singing to instrumental accompaniment based on Biblical words and their usage.

===================================================
WE HAVE NOTED THAT EVERY NAME OF A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT OR A MUSICAL TERM SPEAKS OF "GRINDING THE ENEMY TO DEATH," TO REJECTING THE WORDS OF GOD OR SEXUALITY. THE SAME WORD CAN BE TRANSLATED AS "PLAY THE FLUTE, POLLUTE OR PROSTITUTE." THE DEVIL OR LUCIFER IS GIVEN CREDIT IN THE BIBLE FOR BRINGING CHOIRS, INSTRUMENTS AND PERVERTED SEXUALITY TO THE "YOUTH." MODERN SCHOLARS WILL PLAINLY TELL YOU: "THERE IS NO OTHER TRADITION."

The Jews understood that INSTRUMENTS were for making noise and not true music. As soon as the temple was destroyed it became UNLAWFUL for them to use instruments. It was not until 1815 until a LIBERAL Rabbi added an organ. However, he had to hire a non-Jewish organist because it was UNLAWFUL to play instruments on the Sabbath.

http://www.piney.com/Synagogue1.html

We have collected all of the historical writers we can find and NO ONE ever even dared think about using instruments in THE SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. We have posted a review of these ANTI-MUSIC writers and many denominations:

Arnobius, Basil the Great (c. 329-379), Boethius, Calvin, John, Campbell, Alexander, Chrysostom, Clement of Alexandria, Cotton Mather, Cyprian, Dabney, Edersheim, Erasmus, Gaudentius, Girardeau, John, Green, William, Gregory of Nazianzus(c. 330-c. 390), Guess, Jack, Baptist, Hippolytus, Irenaeus, ISLAM, Josephus, Justin Martyr, Kerr, Martin Luther, McGarvey, J. W.,

As late as the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia insists that music was borrowed from PAGAN CULTS and insisted that the Biblical pattern is CONGREGATIONAL SINGING. You can find a chronological list here---

http://www.piney.com/MUIndex.html

=======================================================
Roman Religious Toleration: The Senatus Consultum de Bacchanalibus, 186 A.D.

http://www.piney.com/HistLivydeBacc.html

"When any person was introduced he was delivered as a VICTIM to the PRIESTS, who led him away to a place
------resounding with shouts, the sound of music, and the beating of cymbals and drums,
-----lest his cries, while suffering violation, should be heard abroad."

STRAIGHT males normally did not get involved therefore the Jews tried to pervert Jesus much earlier:

"First, then, a great part of them are women, and this was the source of the evil; the rest are males, but nearly RESEMBLING women;

--ACTORS and pathics in the vilest lewdness; night revelers, driven frantic by wine, NOISES of INSTRUMENTS, and clamors.

"The conspiracy, as yet, has no strength; but it has abundant means of acquiring strength, for they are becoming more numerous every day.

"But the mischief were less, if they were only effeminated by their practices; of that the disgrace would chiefly affect themselves;

"if they refrained their hands from outrage, and their thoughts from fraud.
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AD 250: Of the Apostolic Constitutions: The first six books are an adaptation of the Didascalia Apostolorum, written in Syria about AD 250. Long before there was an organization named "The Catholic Church" the church was recognized to be part of the universal whole wherever it existed.

"But this peace and haven of tranquility is the Church of Christ..

If one belonging to the theatre

(1) come, whether it be man or woman, or charioteer, or dueller, or racer, or player of prizes, or Olympic gamester, or one that plays on the pipe, on the lute, or on the harp at those games, or a dancing-master or an huckster,

(2) either let them leave off their employments, or let them be rejected. If a soldier come, let him be taught to "do no injustice, to accuse no man falsely, and to be content with his allotted wages:"

(3) if he submit to those rules, let him be received; but if he refuse them, let him be rejected.

He that is guilty of sins not to be named, a sodomite, an effeminate person, a magician, an enchanter, an astrologer, a diviner, an user of magic verses, a juggler, a mountebank, one that makes amulets, a charmer, a soothsayer, a fortune-teller, an observer of palmistry; he that, when he meets you, observes defects in the eyes or feet of the birds or cats, or noises, or symbolical sounds:

=================================
Jerome in about 400

Letter LIV. To Furia. Jerome advises a widow on preserving her widowhood. Living in Rome was dangerous and Jerome warns her. Her sister may have taken vows in Bethlehem. He writes

"You have wealth and can easily therefore supply food to those who want it. Let virtue consume what was provided for self-indulgence; one who means to despise matrimony need fear no degree of want. Have about you troops of virgins whom you may lead into the king's chamber. Support widows that you may mingle them as a kind of violets with the virgins' lilies and the martyrs' roses."

13. Avoid the company of young men.

Let long baited youths dandified and wanton never be seen under your roof.

Repel a SINGERS as you would some bane.

Hurry from your house women who live by PLAYING and SINGING,

the devil's CHOIR whose songs are the fatal ones of sirens.
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Farmer's Branch is just flat wrong: the Jews ceased instruments because they knew that they MADE NOISE only for the sacrificial system and IN JERUSALEM. This was mocking a TYPE of Lord Jesus Christ prophesied to be mocked musically (Psalm 41). JEWS "CHRISTIANIZED" in AD 1815 in a liberal synagogue in GERMANY.

The Gentiles understood MUSIC AS WORSHIP to be symptomatic of the perverted pagan temples. This is why Paul warned the Romans, Ephesians and Colossians.

Paul warns against LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS (Carnal weapons) but there is no explicit statement that any Biblical church used instruments. Nor is there any hint in the early church. This must PROVE that everyone knew that there was NO ROLE for music in the church as synagogue or school of the Bible. The early church was never a RITUALISTIC (LEGALISTIC) WORSHIP ASSOCIATION.

AS SOON AS we have recorded history such as from Justin Martyr we see the church obeying Paul's DIRECT COMMAND to TEACH the inspired Word rather than engage in EXTERNAL MELODY which was always DESTRUCTIVE and PERVERTING.

FARMER'S BRANCH CANNOT FIND A SINGLE INSTANCE OUT OF HERETICAL GROUPS OF THE USE OF MUSIC UNTIL ABOUT AD 1250. THEN THE INSTRUMENT WAS USED BY PROFESSIONAL COMPOSERS. INSTRUMENTS STILL COULD NOT BE USED IN THE SISTINE CHAPEL AS RECORDED IN THE 1911 CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA. To compensate and add the ORGANUM equivalent, the Pope in returning from "Babylonian Captivity" in France brought CASTRATED musical praise teams with him. Priests and SINGERS always had a symbiotic relationship!

Kenneth Sublett

 
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Specific Response Five

April 11 2003, 9:36 PM 

Farmer's Branch: The leadership does not see this position standing in conflict with the Scriptures.

----What IS in CONFLICT with them is that, for the sake of maintaining a TRADITION,

FBCC quite possibly has put itself further out of touch with those whom it desires to TOUCH the most, the unchurched of our culture.

----There can be no question that this was and is the top priority of Jesus, nor is there any question that He was constantly in conflict with the traditions of His day.
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JESUS SAID "GO PREACH" AND NOT "STAY AND TOUCH."

IT IS A FACT: THE MUSICAL PASSAGES IN THE OLD TESTAMENT ARE IN 6 PLACES TO PROVE "I WILL NOT LISTEN TO GOD'S WORD." IN SEVERAL CASES "MUSIC" IS THE MARK OF THOSE WHO LOOKED TO GOD AND TO EZEKIEL AS SEXUAL PARTNERS. This is a PROCLAMATION that the gospel IS NO LONGER EFFECTIVE and that "Evangelists are NOT going ANYWHERE."

What Farmer's Branch is saying is that

----NOT using instruments is maintaining a TRADITION and
----Maintaining the TRADITION of NOT using instruments is IN CONFLICT WITH SCRIPTURES
----Not using instruments may put the church OUT OF TOUCH with the unchurched
----Therefore we have to ABANDON a TRADITION in order to make the GOSPEL GO.

But the BIG SCAM is that "the non-instrumental churches of Christ INVENTED the tradition of NOT using instruments most likely JUST TO SOW DISCORD." That is not far fetched, a friend who objected to instruments in SEATTLE was held up to the blacks as being A RACIST. Rubel Shelly equates the non-instrumentalists to FIRE BOMBERS.

This is so outrageous as to prove anyone who preaches it as terminally ignorant or terminally evil.

Farmer's Branch CONCLUSION seems to be that Jesus was IN CONFLICT with the tradition.
----The only tradition which could possibly fit the argument is that Jesus would
------VIOLATE the TRADITION by NOT using INSTRUMENTS in the Temple
------Jesus violated the clergy tradition implied in his statement that John Did not wear SOFT clothing
------AND He would not SING and DANCE while they PIPED "like children in the marketplace."

The CIVIL SECTARIANS of the Sadducees was the ONLY MUSICAL SECTARIANS in their temple Tradition

Judas whose JUDAS BAG was "for carrying the mouthpieces or 'tongues' of reed instruments" conspired
----with the TEMPLE CLERGY to to murder Jesus.
----The Greek record of the JUDAS BAG is of the homosexual worshipers of Dionysus.
----The Jews HOPED that Jesus was the HOMOSEXUAL messiah rather than the SPIRITUAL Messiah.
----They were the ONLY ONES who were conspiring to murder Jesus.

Stephen compared the clergy to the MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai where the Israelites were

-----Turned over to worship the STARRY HOST.
-----Stephen quoted Amos to prove that their musical rejoicing was part of IDOLATRY.
-----Both Israel and Judah worshiped Molech and Chiun who is Saturn whose number is 666.

Stephen told the MEGA-CHURCH builders that God permitted the temple (at a Jebusite high place) only as a CONCESSION to David and David was TOO FEARFUL of God to ever return to the Tabernacle at Gibeon. Therefore, David moved the Ark to the Jebusite High Place and built his OWN NEW TABERNACLE. But, Stephen told them the BIG SECRET: God does not live in temples or church buildings. The KINGS were not spiritual leaders: God permitted them to carry out the sentence of captivity and death imposed because of the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. He taught what Jesus taught: God is not worshiped in temples built by HUMAN hands. Jesus said that worship is only in the SPIRIT OR MIND which is the TEMPLE God made.

The MUSICAL CROWD murdered Stephen for badmouthing the TEMPLE and its TRADITIONS which depended totally on the LOUD NOISE (never called music) to pay for their own sins by killing thousands of TYPES of Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus was murdered in part because His refusal to engage in the perverted SONG and DANCE to Dionysus meant that He was NOT the kind of Messiah they wanted.

Jesus VIOLATED the TRADITION of the Babylonian Passover which demanded drunkenness and instituted the Lord's Supper but DID NOT participate.

Jesus violated the WATER DRAWING ritual with LOUD FLUTES by insisting that HE was the source of Living Waters and therefore the ANSWER to their PRAYER that Messiah would come. They killed Him and kept on fluting.

Jesus violated the TRADITIONS of worship in TIME and PLACE by letting the sinful Samaritan woman know that she DIDN'T have to worship in the PLACE of Gerezim: henceforth the ONLY place the woman could worship was in her OWN SPIRIT giving heed to the Spirit of Truth.

Jesus VIOLATED the TRADITION of having a Musical Worship Team perform the magical rituals when the young girl was to be resurrected. He CAST THEM OUT more or less violently using a word which means LIKE DUNG. Maybe He did that because the clergy accused Him of being Beel-zebub which, in Hebrew, meant the DUNG GOD.

Jesus as Spirit used John to condemn the end-time Babylon Whore religion as a blend of commerce, false religion and MUSIC. As the king of Tyre, Lucifer used MUSIC as the "harp playing prostitute" to steal the money of honest people: something like TITHING or "The Law of Giving" or selling church bonds.

Jesus VIOLATED THE TRADITION of the "Lord, Lord sayers" who, like the MUSICAL MOURNING TEAM could CAST OUT DEMONS. Except for true PROPHETS or those READING the inspired Word, "prophesiers" were "musical performers."

"The nature of prophecy is twofold:
----either inspired (by visions or revelatory auditions),
----or acquired (by learning certain techniques). In many cases both aspects are present.
"The goal of learning certain prophetic techniques is
----to reach an ecstatic state in which revelations can be received.
----That state might be reached through the use of MUSIC, dancing, drums, violent bodily movement, and self-laceration.

This "prophecy" was much like SPEAKING IN TONGUES. Jesus VIOLATED THE TRADITIONS of the Dionysus "prophesiers" left over from the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION in the Jerusalem Temple where Zeus and Dionysus were worshiped MUSICALLY which always meant SEXUALLY or PERVERTED.

The SERPENT in the garden of Eden is the Hebrew NACHASH. He/she is a MUSICAL ENCHANTER and named after perhaps the Cobra or Phython who made a "hissing" or "whispering" sound much like an instrument made out of "ringing bell metal" or bronze. This MUSICAL ENCHANTER had his/her own seed of vipers just as Cain was "of that evil one" and Judas was IN DWELLED by Satan. Delphi was the "worship center" of Apollo who is the Abaddon of Apollyon of Revelation in his destructive persona. The MUSICIANS of Revelation 18 is derived from Apollo's MUSES. Remember also that Paul compared MUSICAL INSTRUMENT SOUNDS usually reserved for WARRIORS or SOOTHSAYERS to "speaking in tongues" and music has to be INTERPRETED. Therefore, music IS speaking in tongues:

--"In certain ancient Israelite prophetic groups, MUSIC was used to achieve the ecstatic state, in which the participants, in their accompanying dancing, were believed to have been seized by the hand of Yahweh, the God of Israel, as in the case of Saul, the 11th-century-BC king of Israel. [Jezebel's "prophesiers" were MUSICIANS.]

----The Pythia (priestess) of the Greek oracle at Delphi often went into an ecstatic state during which she uttered sounds revealed to her by the python (the snake,the symbol of resurrection), after drinking water from a certain spring.

----Her "words" were then interpreted by a priest to help a suppliant find a way to avoid calamities, especially death. In primitive religions, ECSTASY was a technique highly developed by SHAMANS, religious personages with healing and psychic-transformation powers, in their "soul," or "spirit," flights.

DELPHI WAS JUST UP THE COAST FROM CORINTH. IN 11:5 HE IS SPEAKING OF THE "UNCOVERED PROPHESYING" OF THE WOMEN JUST OUT OF PAGANISM. THE OTHER WAY TO TRULY PROPHESY IS TO "READ THE WORD AS IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN AND BE ABLE TO SAY 'THUS SAITH THE LORD'."

And the ONLY reason ANYONE uses "music" is to induce a state of CHARISMATIC ECSTASY among the youth alread brain-dead from constant "music." See the UNIVERSAL MESSAGE:

http://www.piney.com/MuDevils.html

PROFESSIONAL MUSICIANS including CCM ADMIT THAT YOU CANNOT MAKE IT BIG TIME UNLESS YOU SELL YOUR SOUL TO SATAN: THAT IS THE UNIVERSAL TRADITIONAL BELIEF. Why let them "stand in the holy place" claiming to be gods or mediators to "lead you into the presence of God."

Kenneth Sublett

 
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Specific Response Number Six

April 17 2003, 10:57 AM 

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: "The Purpose Of This Consideration

"The purpose of this presentation is to set forth what the LEADERSHIP believes the LORD'S WILL to be for the Farmers Branch Church concerning vocal and INSTRUMENTAL MUSICAL expression.

============================================
LEADERSHIP MEANS, WE SUSPECT, THE PREACHER AND THE MUSICAL "WORSHIP" MINISTER!

It might come as some SURPRISE to the "leadership" that the word MUSIC is never used in the Bible in association with Spiritual worship. On the contrary, the LORD's WILL was to claim that SATAN or LUCIFER used "music" to seduce Adam and Eve and his CHANGE AGENTS were the king of Tyre (the harp-playing prostitute) and the king of Babylon whose harps and harpists would go with Him into Sheol to be taunted (clapped) by the great ones he had deceived.

--At that time Tyre will be forgotten for seventy years, the span of a king's life. But at the end of these seventy years, it will happen to Tyre as in the song of the prostitute: Is.23:15

----"Take up a harp, walk through the city, O prostitute forgotten; play the harp well, sing many a song, so that you will be remembered." Is.23:16

------At the end of seventy years, the LORD will deal with Tyre. She will return to her hire as a prostitute and will ply her trade with all the kingdoms on the face of the earth. Is.23:17

Other than for entertainment or WARFARE the MUSICAL terms always point to the MALE or FEMALE PROSTITUTES. The king of Tyre as a "harp playing prostitute" wanted to be REMEMBERED AS A MALE.

It might come as a surprise that the LORD inspired every "musical event" as a MARK stamped on those who told Amos and others: "We will not hear any more about God and His word."

It might also come as a surprise that the music they see in the Temple was actually called NOISE by the LORD who is "now" changing His Mind (mindS for the neo-Trinitarians) and inspiring Farmer's Branch. Because God granted a temple LIKE THE NATIONS when they FIRED HIM, the NOISE was called "hard bondage" and was to give aid to the priests as tens of thousands of animals were slain, dung was carried out, rivers of blood poured down into the valley of "hell" and the screams of dying animals made a HORRIBLE noise as a MARK to the Jews of the EVIL of refusing to listen to the RECORDED Word of God. They were fulfilling the CARNAL TYPE of the same MUSICAL MOCKING as they sacrificed Lord Jesus Christ because they identified Him as Beel-Zebub which the Hebrew identifies as the DUNG GOD.

THIS MAY BE WHY JESUS "CAST OUT" THE "MUSICAL MOURNING TEAM" MORE OR LESS VIOLENTLY USING A WORD WHICH MEANS AS YOU "CAST OUT DUNG."

Psalm 41 prophesies that JUDAS would not be successful in TRIUMPHING OVER Jesus. The Synagogue as the Hebrew QAHAL was, like the church, an assembly for INSTRUCTION which was the primary meaning of WORSHIP. Numbers 10:7 OUTLAWS the ALARM or TRIUMPH when the Assembly was called ONLY for instructions.

-------------------------------------------------

-----Ruwa (h7321) roo-ah'; a prim. root; to mar (espec. by breaking); fig. to split the ears (with sound), i. e. shout (for alarm or joy): - blow an alarm, cry (alarm, aloud, out), destroy, make a JOYFUL NOISE, smart, SHOUT FOR JOY, sound an alarm, triumph.

ALL MUSICAL TERMS ARE CONNECTED TO "WARFARE" OR GRINDING THE ENEMY INTO A FINE POWDER. THEREFORE, THE NEXT HEBREW WORD IS:

-----Ruwph (h7322) roof; a prim. root; prop. to TRITURATE (in a mortar), i. e. (fig.) to AGITATE (by concussion): - tremble.

ALL WHICH CAN BE DEFINED AS "MUSIC" OR "PLAYING INSTRUMENTS" IN THE EXTERNAL SENSE IS CONNECTED WITH "CREATING PANIC, MELTING THE HEART OF PEOPLE LIKE JESUS, OR GRINDING THEM INTO A FINE POWDER AS JESUS HAND-FED JUDAS WITH THE SOP WHICH IS RELATED TO "PSALLO" Because the Judas Bag "carried the mouthpieces or 'tongues' of WIND INSTRUMENTS always connected to the FLUTE CASE of perverted Dionysus worshipers which PREVAILED in Jerusalem.

WHEN ISRAEL "ROSE UP TO PLAY" the word means to sing, dance, play instruments and more. This same WORD used of Samson meant that he "GROUND in the King's House which meant that he was USED and ABUSED just like all enemy warriors. An equivalent word for PLAY which is used of Samson is also applied to the PLAYING of David as he "MADE HIMSELF VILE." When David PLAYED the word is:

-----Sachaq (h7832) saw-khak'; a prim. root; to laugh (in pleasure or detraction); by impl. to play: - deride, have in derision, laugh, make merry, mock (-er), play, rejoice, (laugh to) scorn, be in (make) sport.

The next Hebrew word is:

-----Shachaq (h7833) shaw-khak'; a prim. root; to comminate (by TRITURATION or ATTRITION): - beat, WEAR.

The PLAY or MUSIC was to GRIND THE ENEMY down to prove your superiority. The TEAMS use and abuse the church and STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE actually taking the place of Lord Jesus Christ as the ONE MEDIATOR.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Paul SPECIFICALLY issued a DIRECT COMMAND that we TEACH or preach to one another by SPEAKING the inspired Psalms (only). He specifically put the MELODY in the heart rather than EXTERNAL which would OUTLAW the TEACHING LEARNING process ISSUED AS A DIRECT COMMAND without music FOR THE QAHAL OR "CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS."

The word Paul used is NOT a musical term: you can TWANG a bowstring to send a SINGING arrow into the REAL HEART of an enemy to TRITURATE HIM or "grind him into a fine powder." Or, you can make a "twanging note" as you YANK out the hair of an enemy or you can TRIUMPH OVER the customer as the HARP PLAYING PROSTITUTE.

-----PSALLO (g5567) psal'-lo; prob. strengthened from psao, (to RUB or touch the surface; comp. 5597); to TWITCH or twang, i.e. to play on a stringed instrument (celebrate the divine worship with music and accompanying odes): - make melody, sing (psalms)

Psallo is compared to PSOCHO:

-----Psocho (g5597) pso'-kho; prol. from the same base as 5567; to TRITURATE, i.e. (by anal.) to RUB out (kernels from husks with the fingers or hand): - rub.

This is the word SOP Jesus 'TRITURATED' as a MARK or SIGN to Judas.

-----Psomion (g5596) pso-mee'-on; dim. from a der. of the base of 5597; a crumb or morsel (as if RUBBED OFF), i.e. a mouthful: - SOP.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MUSIC IS THE UNIVERSAL MARK OF GRINDING PEOPLE INTO A FINE POWDER OR MELTING THEIR HEART BY AN INJECTION OF "MORPHINE-LIKE" ENDORPHINS. THEN "PSALLOING" THEIR HEAD OFF WITH A SWORD OR ARROW TO "TAKE THEIR INHERITANCE." FOR INSTANCE, HALAL MEANS "TO MAKE SELF VILE" AND Chalal IS TRANSLATED: "TAKE ONE'S INHERITANCE, PLAY THE FLUTE, POLLUTE OR PROSTITUTE."

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER IS MUSIC USED BY THE Old "Modern God" for spiritual worship. That is a product of declaring that the BIBLE is so SIFTED that the only thing left is the CORE GOSPEL. Then, God pours out His wrath by "sending BUFFOONS or stand up comics" to SEND STRONG DELUSION so that people are actually CONFIRMED or HARDENED in their lying about a Holy God.

Paul connected CARNAL WEAPONS or LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS to physicl warfare or the MAGICAL, PAGAN acts like soothsaying or necromancy. The Clanging and Booming were expressions RIGHT OUT OF the Oracles all around Corinth.

He also connected LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS with SPEAKING IN TONGUES or the "VOICE OF ANGELS." Instruments EXPRESS NOTHING: they are SPEAKING IN TONGUES. They are ADDED as MIND-CONTROL devices or "sugar to make the poison go down." Watch a 100 million dollar movie without the MUSIC.

God authorized the TWO SILVER TRUMPETS to signal assembly, travel, panic in battle and other CHURCH BELL LIKE purposes. God SPECIFICIALLY outlawed the BLOWING of an ALARM which included "making a joyful noise before the Lord." This was the common NATIONAL WAR CHANT and not "worship."

From Beginning to the end of the Bible (Rev 18) MUSICAL PERFORMANCE is the MARK of people who absolutely refuse to listen to God and have no trouble TWISTING God's clear Words into AUTHORITY to TRIUMPH OVER the local church of Christ because they see "godliness as a means of financial gain."

Kenneth Sublett

 
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erich eugene geary
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65.148.9.200

RE: whole psge

April 18 2003, 1:58 AM 


I have read a great deal on this and associated web sites. You make some errors in how you draw your conclusions. When a writer, regardless of their doctrinal or religious affiliation, agrees with you, then they are right. However, when they disagree they are wrong. If you cannot successfully attack the scholarship, you attack their character, so they are not credible because they are Nazis or communists. Even given all of this the point you are making is relatively mote.

If I attend a service where musical (mechanical) interments re used, it does not effect my personal salvation. I am a repentant immersed believer seeking to serve God under the guidance of my elders and ministers. If the use of musical instruments was essential to my salvation, then indeed salvation is by works and actions. Grant it, I need to seek to serve and worship God in the best and most pleasing way to God. Remember I am told to work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I am under the rule of liberty and grace. What happened to; “in non-essentials liberty” or “in matters of conscience liberty”? At most, if I choose to worship with interments, I may be a weak Christian. However, using the argument used by Paul, then I really should consider you the weaker brother, because I know that to the pure all things are pure. I am under grace.

It is your right to make it a test of fellowship, if done in love. I quite frankly agree with those who note a lack of love in the tone of the web sites and writings. There is a problem with tests of fellowship. They are the origins of creeds and denominations. Your make your tests of fellowship your common denominators.

It appears that you do not believe in the local independent control of the local church. The local elders are no longer to be in charge of the teachings of each church, and held accountable by God. So, Congratulations, you seem to be succeeding as the guardians of doctrinal purity. You are successful in completing the [primary step in becoming a denomination known as “The Conservative Accaupela Church of Christ”. It must be comforting for so many to know that you are out here in cyberspace guarding the official doctrine.

I am sure there will be a nice long annotated response with all the right scriptural notations and quotes. Learn to let it go and trust G

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.44

Re: whole psge

April 18 2003, 3:41 PM 

I have read a great deal on this and associated web sites. You make some errors in how you draw your conclusions. When a writer, regardless of their doctrinal or religious affiliation, agrees with you, then they are right. However, when they disagree they are wrong. If you cannot successfully attack the scholarship, you attack their character, so they are not credible because they are Nazis or communists. Even given all of this the point you are making is relatively mote.

-------------

Isn't that the way it is? We all love those who agree with us. But you are dead wrong: that's why I disagree with you. MY point is that as far as I can determine the Old and New Testament, the Babylonian Tablets (I have a large collection posted) the Hebrew scholars who wrote their documents (sermons etc) throughout the Biblical period, the Classical and other Greek writers, the church Fathers and the founders of all denominations AGREE with me or I agree with them. To date, there is ZERO written material which supports the idea of INSTRUMENTAL music: If it existed I would have found it because good sites provide SEARCH ENGINES so that I can look up words like "instruments, music, song, etc) and find every thing any major writer said on the topic. The tablets associate instruments as the DEVICE given to womankind to create a feminist and always perverted religion (I know of no exception). That agrees with the Bible where the name of the SERPENT translates to a MUSICAL ENCHANTER and the king of Tyre is the personification of Lucifer who was IN THE GARDEN with her string, wind and percussion instruments. And the Babylon harlot of Revelation 18 carries the identical Lucifer message.

I equate people to Hegel because they boast about INFILTRATING AND DIVERTING so that you don't know that a Christian Church has stolen "the church house of widows." I quote Machiavelli because he is the "quoted" AUTHORITY for facilitating CHANGE and explaining why THOSE WITH THE LAW ON THEIR SIDES are slower to change. I quote Hitler because MEIN KAMPF shows how the INTELLECTUAL LEADERS must use the emotional and ignorant as HUMAN MATERIAL. These methods fuel the writings of those instructing infiltrators how to STEAL and change to an UNSCRIPTURAL worship: such as MUSIC. Anyone, including a non-instrumentalists, who would lie, cheat and steal an instrumental church has the SPIRIT of Hitler and not Lord Jesus Christ.

They tell you that the Bible has been 'sifted through philosophy' and the "Bible writer's own personal agenda" which gives them the right to convert the MUSICAL IDOLATRY TERMINAL FALL at Mount Sinai into a "pattern for Christian worship and communigy (commune)." They then write books and preach sermons based on their Baptist Blackaby's permission to be the MOSES or CHRIST for your age. They say that truth and the CHRISTENDOM ERA ceased in the last century and they have NEW GLASSES and are having a NEW VISION for the church of Christ. I say that they are LIARS. What would you call those who take every MUSICAL STATEMENT in the bible and make it into PROOF TEXTS for a musical SABBATH WORSHIP when EVER musical term and name of instrument speaks of Satan, destruction, pollution, prostitution or worse? The last article shows that for EVERY musical term there are ROOTS which connect to GRINDING ONE INTO BITS. Modern science and musicologists know that: music creates a DRUG HIGH. I know of no evidence to refute that so I don't post it.

=============================================================

If I attend a service where musical (mechanical) interments re used, it does not effect my personal salvation. I am a repentant immersed believer seeking to serve God under the guidance of my elders and ministers. If the use of musical instruments was essential to my salvation, then indeed salvation is by works and actions.

---------------------

You have just HAD A REVELATION: Musical performance is the most WORKS INTENSIVE thing you could invent (contrary to all of the evidence) and call it worship. ALL of the evidence points to the superstitious belief that MUSIC was the work of humans to AID the gods so that they did not fail or even turn on you.

Strabo Geography 10.3.16 from Aristotle Poetics:

http://www.piney.com/MuAristPoetics.html

Of the rites of Dionysus condemned by Paul in First Corinthians where the Classics often speak of music as "clanging and sounding"

"And he mentions immediately afterwards the attendants of Dionysus: one, holding in his hands the bombyces, toilsome WORK of the turner's chisel, fills full the fingered melody, the call that brings on frenzy, while another causes to resound the bronze-bound cotylae.

"and again, stringed instruments raise their shrill cry, and frightful mimickers from some place unseen bellow like bulls, and the semblance of drums, as of subterranean thunder, rolls along, a terrifying sound.

Both in Hebrew and Greek MELODY speaks of the HARD WORK of the miller grinding grain into a fine powder, a warrior TWANGING a bowstring to send an ARROW to break up your literal heart.

There is no MUSICAL term used in the Bible involved in SPIRITUAL worship. On the contrary I can point you to many which show that MUSIC is the mark of those who have rejected the Word of God. I don't tell people what they can or cannot do. In fact, what we call CHURCH has deteriorated into the end time CIRCE of myth which John spoke about and NOT a synagogue or school of the Bible.

====================================================

Grant it, I need to seek to serve and worship God in the best and most pleasing way to God. Remember I am told to work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I am under the rule of liberty and grace. What happened to; "in non-essentials liberty" or "in matters of conscience liberty"? At most, if I choose to worship with interments, I may be a weak Christian. However, using the argument used by Paul, then I really should consider you the weaker brother, because I know that to the pure all things are pure. I am under grace.

--------------------------------

No. The VEGETARIANS Rome were the Orphics. The Meat-eaters, wine-drinkers were the DIONYSICS. Both are attributed with inventing and using instruments to get you into a HIGH so that the worship was called MADNESS (a term Paul applied to the Corinthians). Paul sets up the BACKGROUNDS which could make CHURCH impossible. Therefore, in chapter 15 Paul defined the Christian Synagogue or SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE as a way for diverse backgrounds to meet to fulfill the PURPOSE for the church: to make the will of God known. He asks them to submit like Christ, Glorify God WITH ONE VOICE and use THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN. This, as in the synagogue which began in the wilderness and never used music, would allow them to TEACH one another with the INSPIRED TEXT. The "blue" book is not inspired even with instruments. So, Paul actually OUTLAWS the old pagan musical WORSHIP as opposed to SCHOOL.

Jesus said that worship which God accepts is NOW not in the PLACE of houses. Rather, worship is IN THE SPIRIT. That does not mean with enthusiasm: it means that the human SPIRIT is the only place where God looks for me. The worship word even in the Old Testament was to GIVE HEED to God's Word. Paul said that if you want to find Jesus you have to go OUTSIDE THE CAMP or OUTSIDE THE CITY of the LIKE THE NATION'S HOUSE. I believe that there is a fundamental misunderstanding about the meaning of WORSHIP. You simply cannot GIVE HEED to the commanded BIBLICAL PSALMS OR "THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN" and GIVE HEED to the musicians and secular songs at the same time.

What you CANNOT DO and get away with it is to INFILTRATE a non instrumental church of Christ and steal it for the instrumental Christian church. Their birthdate began with taking over non instrumental churches and thereby driving them out.

======================================================

It is your right to make it a test of fellowship, if done in love. I quite frankly agree with those who note a lack of love in the tone of the web sites and writings. There is a problem with tests of fellowship. They are the origins of creeds and denominations. Your make your tests of fellowship your common denominators.

----------------

Will you tolerate a non-instrumental group INFILTRATING AND DIVERTING using ancient methods? Will you invite me (I cant come) to come and TEACH THE BIBLICAL AND ALL OF THE HISTORICAL FACTS which repudiate MUSIC as a drug-injecting mind control device? Will you publish my notes which prove that MUSICAL WORSHIP was always pagan worship? Will you let me teach Sunday School against the MUSICAL position. No, I knew that you WOULD NOT. That means that you REFUSE TO FELLOWSHIP me. YOU fellowship me but on YOUR terms.

The church of Christ has always existed under that name and always repudiated instruments. When the RM was formed neither Methodists, Baptists or Presbyterians used instruments and Luther called the organ an ensign or MARK OF BAAL. Calvin repudiated music: everyone but the Catholic-influenced churches.

The LIBERALS with no authority FORCED instruments into non instrumental churches and took them to law to get control of the buildings.

All of humanity defines the INSTRUMENTAL group which ADDED something without authority as HERETICS and SOWERS OF DISCORD and SECTARIANS. The non-instrumental people are CONGREGATIONAL and don't have time nor inclination to ALSO AFFIRM the instrumentalist by attending their services. WE know that your FELLOWSHIP is LIMITED.

============================================

It appears that you do not believe in the local independent control of the local church. The local elders are no longer to be in charge of the teachings of each church, and held accountable by God. So, Congratulations, you seem to be succeeding as the guardians of doctrinal purity. You are successful in completing the [primary step in becoming a denomination known as "The Conservative Accaupela Church of Christ". It must be comforting for so many to know that you are out here in cyberspace guarding the official doctrine.

--------------------------------------------------------------

If you look closely you will find that almost 100% of my sermon or book reviews are against men on the PAYROLL of non-instrumental churches but INFILTRATING the instrumental view.

I don't have a church and can no longer attend ANY church: just destroys my nerves consistent with all historical and medical evidence about MUSIC with or without instruments. The finely-honed congregational singing without instruments is in fact more ANXIETY CREATING than an organ and psalm singing. The BURDEN Jesus died to remove was "spiritual anxiety created by religious ritual." That is why He did not prescribe any SINGING with or without instrments. The DIRECT COMMAND was to TEACH or PREACH to one another using "that which is written, the Spirit, or the Word of Christ." Both the singing (secular) and melody (highly destructive of the emotions) was placed by a DIRECT COMMAND of Paul as IN THE HEART.

================

I am sure there will be a nice long annotated response with all the right scriptural notations and quotes. Learn to let it go and trust G

-----------

Why not? You can take it. Tell me why my PROOF of the MUSICAL terms are a MISHANDLING of the Word. Can't let go. Faithfulness and discipleship to the WORDS of God is the MARK of my TRUST of God. I just don't trust the musicians to replace Lord Jesus and LEAD ME INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD.

Ken

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.34

Specific Response Seven

April 18 2003, 9:53 PM 

I had hoped that someone could read the CLEAR passages about the FALL of Israel through music and grasp that in every instance a MUSICAL term or name of a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT has roots in Satan, grinding the enemy into a fine powder, warfare or prostitution. No, the temple singers NEVER entered into the TYPE OF THE CHURCH.

Rather than respond, the pro musical types define refuting FALSE TEACHING as a proof of a lack of love. Since they have the GIFT OF DISCERNMENT it may be time to look at the claim that the INSTRUMENTALISTS pervert every Scripture and claim a DIRECT INPUT FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT PERSON as their authority to REPUDIATE THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST Who inspired the entire Bible

=====================================

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: The leadership believes that MUSIC lifted up in praise to God and His Son is an outpouring from the heart of a person FILLED with the HOLY SPIRIT.
----This offering can be vocal, instrumental or both together.
---This conclusion is the result of much prayer and considerable study of the Scriptures on this matter.
=================================================================================

Contradiction ALL KNOWN historical opinion until the FAMILY OF GOD was invented probably by H. Leo Boles and propagated by the Gospel Advocate in about 1942, THERE WAS LITTLE opinion that God existed as THREE SEPARATED gods with their own particular talent for their own dispensation. John Mark Hicks at Lipscomb gives "credit" to Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly in their INCARNATIONAL THEOLOGY for making this HERESY popular.

I KNOW DIRECTLY OF NO ONE OTHER THAN APOSTATE CHURCHES OF CHRIST WHO CUTS GOD UP LIKE A PECAN PIE.

The most popular "parable" down through church history is that God THINKS a thought, BREATHS out Spirit or wind through his lips as DOUBLE-EDGED SWORDS and expresses HIS WORD which accomplish his WILL. Only one crazy guy in history suggested that God is THREE SEPARATED BEINGS. Their friend suggests that Lucado, Shelly etc. may deny that Christ came FULLY IN THE FLESH. That would be the definition of ANTI-CHRIST.

http://www.piney.com/HSHicksLucadoShelly.html

God is PURE or HOLY SPIRIT in nature. Holy means WHOLLY Spirit without human-like body parts. "Holy" is not a first name. The Spirit in the Bible is the Spirit OF Christ or the Spirit OF God but not a THIRD PERSON. Paul draws up an equation in 1 Cor. 2:

---->The Holy Spirit IS TO GOD
---->What our spirit is to us.
---->The Holy Spirit is the MIND OF CHRIST.
---->Christ is the eternal WORD--the DISCOURSE of God--not the MUSICIAN.

We are body, soul and spirit but we are not TRIPLETS and neither is God.

The FALSE CLAIM that one has ONE THIRD OF GOD literally dwelling in their CARNAL body is PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE. If they can convince you that the LEADERSHIP is HEARING the voice of the Spirit then they DISCOURAGE you from questioning the holy anointed beings. Rubel Shelly as facilitator of this heresy says that we SHOULD HEAR THE VOICE AUDIBLY.

Spirit was usually PERSONIFIED.

SPIRIT means the mental disposition of a BEING in both Hebrew and Greek. In the ancient world everything had a "spirit." The spirit OF anger, the UNholy spirit of a young man, a SWEET spirit and etc. Only in the sense of a GHOST or DEMON of the dead did they every personify SPIRIT. Shelly identifies the Spirit as a GHOST by identifying him with the German GEIST as in Poltegeist.
=============================================================

THE SPIRIT TO BE USED IN TEACHING (AS SINGING) IS THE WORDS OF CHRIST JESUS.

Take a look at three SINGING passages to see that Paul DOES NOT speak about music but about TEACHING with the revealed Words of Christ. If the leaders are HEARING from the spirit it is not a HOLY SPIRIT but the spirit which motivated all paganism where MUSIC was used and the worshipers were ABUSED in more ways than one.

First look at Ephesians:

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be FILLED with the SPIRIT;
--Eph 5:19 Speaking (PREACHING) to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody IN YOUR HEART to the Lord;
----Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
------Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the FEAR OF GOD (one of the SEVEN spirits of God).

Jesus said that worship was ONLY in the human Spirit as it gives attention to the SPIRIT of TRUTH, the Words of Christ.

The same Paul wrote to the Colossians and said that to be FILLED with the SPIRIT is to be FILLED with the WORD OF CHRIST:

----Col 3:16 Let the WORD OF CHRIST dwell in you richly in all wisdom; TEACHING and ADMONISHING one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace IN YOUR HEARTS to the Lord.

The same Paul wrote to the Romans to say that they were COMPETENT to teach one another and that the RESOURCE for teaching can only be THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN:

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were WRITTEN AFORETIME were written for our LEARNING (teaching), that we through patience and comfort of the SCRIPTURES might have hope.
--Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another ACCORDING to CHRIST Jesus:
----Romans 15:6 That ye may with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH GLORIFY God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peter said that THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN was by the SPIRIT OF CHRIST.

--1 PETER 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the SPIRIT of CHRIST which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

John said the same thing:

---Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the TESTIMONY of JESUS: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT of PROPHECY.

That is because Jesus Christ said:

---John 6:63 It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE.

The MENORAH or seven CANDLESTICKS represents the SPIRIT or the presence of Christ and His Word in each church. This SPIRIT is the spirit OF some form of KNOWLEDGE which dwells in the human SPIRIT.

--Isa 11:1 AND there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a BRANCH shall grow out of his roots:
----Isa 11:2 And the spirit OF the Lord shall REST upon him, the spirit OF WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING, the spirit of COUNSEL and MIGHT, the spirit of KNOWLEDGE and of the FEAR of the Lord;
------Isa 11:3 And shall make him of QUICK UNDERSTANDING (spiritual) in the fear of the Lord: and he shall NOT judge after the SIGHT of his eyes, neither reprove after the HEARING of his EARS:

Of the Lord, Lord Sayers who were "prophesying" which means "making music and going charismatic" Jesus says I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOUR NAME because "spiritual" worship is in the Most Holy Place of the human spirit where God as Spirit accepts our worship in DARKNESS and SILENCE.

DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE SAYING ANYTHING IF THEY CLAIM THE AFRICAN "LITTLE MAN (SPIRIT) LIVES IN THE BIG MAN (ME)" HERESY. THESE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE "SPIRIT" OR "MENTAL DISPOSITION" OF LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO "CAST OUT THE MUSICAL TEAM" MORE OR LESS VIOLENTLY LIKE "DUNG."

See how SPIRIT is personified in the Bible:

http://www.piney.com/HsPersonif.html

http://www.piney.com/HsPersonif2.html

You have a deep problem if you believe that it is UNLOVING to warn you about people who claim to be equal with Jesus Christ by having the SPIRIT dwell in them to instruct them. This repudiates Lord Jesus Christ of whom "the Spirit without measure" meant that He spoke the "WORDS OF GOD" without changing them.

NONE of these people should be able to BLUFF you by claiming that THEIR decisions are the DECISIONS of the Spirit (of Christ) or that THEIR silly praise songs are the result of a HOLY Spirit. It is not TRUTH and my job is to help free you from "BEING A WATCHTOWER SLAVE."

I know when I say this that "when you free people from oppressors they will never forgive you." I fear that the only LOVING thing would be to agree with everyone but THAT would not be the LOVE Jesus poured out often in REBUTTAL and got Himself killed.

History knows NO EXCEPTION to the rule that Satan taught the youth to MAKE MUSIC as a way to seduce them into a life which REJECTED God by rejecting His Words. It NEEDS NO PROVING that singing silly praise songs fabricated out of Voodoo is REJECTING the "Songs" of Lord Jesus Christ.

I await any PROOF that singing with instrumental accompaniment was ever used in the spiritual worship of God AT ANY TIME in the Bible. Until then, ALL of recorded history associates MUSIC as CARNAL manipulation which can have NO connection with worship IN THE HUMAN SPIRIT IN SILENCE AND DARKNESS.

I also await ANY PROOF that INSTRUMENTS were ever used and not ASSOCIATED with telling (or having told) God: "We will not listen to YOUR words."

Until then I stand aquitted of SELECTIVE proof texting or trying to POLICE the church.

Kenneth Sublett

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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