It appears that Farmers Branch Church of Christ has been experimenting with "praise teams "and music in Worship for some two or more years now.

The below document from the Elders of Farmers Branch was distributed to the Churches members and subsequently a copy was sent to Kenneth Subblett for evaluation.

The document is a "white paper" giving the Elders scriptual basis for a new third Worship service on Saturday night featuring with what appears to be full music intrumentation.

Mr. Sublett's review appears below the document link.

As one follows the progression of Churches making the transition several things become obvious;

1. The "third worship service" is always just a ploy to bring the "new experience" into the regular worship service.

2. Once the "icecream" store is opened, it's just a matter of time before one flavor is not enough. Churches bringing in "Praise Teams" should be aware that the next move is a gradual shift toward full musical instrumentation. The Elders uniformly cover their words by saying, "our intent is not to have instruments".
Then, eventially they determine as in the document below that instruments are Ok.

3. Sriptual basis is always referenced to the NIV bible. The reason for this is simple. The NIV and other modern versions have been corrupted to allow these conclusions.
================
A Consideration Of Instrumental Accompaniment In Corporate Worship, from The Elders at Farmers Branch Church of Christ.
http://www.concernedmembers.com/links/instruments.htm

A Review Of This Document By Kenneth Sublett;
http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Music.html

Links Describing Corruption Of The NIV And Other Modern Versions, That Bring On Apostasy In The Church;
http://www.concernedmembers.com/library.htm#hit

Why is it that probably not one Hired Servant in the "brotherhood" leading THEIR churches into pagan worship have a clue to the sequence of events of the Old Testament?

Especially the doctors of the law missed the point that Israel was not worth rescuing from Egypt but God did it to protect His own Name. Leaving them in Egypt sullied His name because they were worse than the NATIONS. When God brought them out of Egypt He restored the Covenant Made with Abraham. This was a covenant of grace. However, Israel ROSE UP TO PLAY in musical idolatry, worshiping the STARRY HOST. Therefore, God gave them the law and TURNED THEM OVER to the worship they lusted for.

The early and end-time WANDERING STAR and his agents had the number of 666 in the original Chaldee.

When the ELDERS fired God and demanded a king, God warned them but hand picked kings "in His anger" to lead the nation into captivity and death.

The Jerusalem Temple was quite identical to most temples and had many of the features of the Tower of Babylon because THAT was where God had sentenced them to go. Solomon sold cities to Tyre representing Lucifer, the harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden and the "musicans" were the slave drivers to force slave labor (even Hebrews) to build a temple to store all of the gold to be looted withing 5 years of Solomon's death and which led to CIVIL WAR. As fulfillment, churches which build their church on the foundation of MUSICIANS and THEATRICAL PREACHERS always lead to CIVIL WAR.

However, neither the Jewish instrumentalists not called musicians but EXCELLERS or SLAVE DRIVERS and their SERVICE not worship but HARD BONDAGE, nor the vilest of pagan temple-states ever went into the Holy Place which was a carnal type of the spiritual church or Body of Christ.

The NOISE MAKERS served out in the court helping to slaughter and burn animals. Their SERVICE was a prophetic type of their future SLAUGHTER of Jesus prophesied to be with musical mocking. Their judgmental work ceased absolutely.

Therefore, neither in type nor in its spiritual fulfilment did any "musician" dare to go into the Holy Place typical of the synagogue and church.

Therefore, end-time musicians who claim to LEAD YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD or aid your WORSHIP are TERMINAL because they are more arrogant than the worst of pagan temple musicians.

As the Jerusalem temple was a LIKE THE NATIONS TEMPLE as civil and military capital, the end-time IMITATION of Levitical musicians is like the nations where NATIONS meant the Babylon- influenced nations to be fulfilled by the Babylon Whore of Revelation 18. Here is a link to show that the temple was like the nations because that is what the ELDERS demanded:

http://www.piney.com/Temple-like-Nations.html

See a drawing of the temple as carnal type and the church of Christ as spiritual anti type to see that when the MUSICIANS enter into the Holy Place and claim to MEDIATE and lead you into the MOST HOLY PLACE they have fulfilled prophecy and, I fear, are beyond redemption because they are beyond repentance:

http://www.piney.com/Temple-Body.html

At least, you don't have to be the BLIND being led into the ditch of vile paganism showing contempt for Christ and for His Word. This means that you MUST NOT finance this horror. Never believe the lie they used to FINANCE their temples that you OWE them through a LAW OF GIVING and increasingly the TITHE. IT IS ALL A BIG LIE TO BRING YOU INTO BONDAGE AND SILENCE THE WORDS OF CHRIST.

Kenneth Sublett

If you're not a member of Farmer's Branch, it isn't your business. The attitudes of messages displayed in this forum are shameful. You call yourselves Christians? You mock the holy name of Christ with your ugliness.

This is from a grounded member in a small congregation in Northern California. Make all the excuces you want to hold up your own doctrine about your doings, God knows if you are rightly dividing his word, or adding to it to please yourselves. Read the book of Amos and find out how God really felt about David implementing music into their worship to God. I wont tell you what the Lords response is so read it for yourself. Gods word, both in Old Testament and New cannot be improved on. Be careful brethren, we love you and do not want to see Satan deceive your minds through the teachings of men. It is really simple. Sing with your hearts and voices as a whole church, as God commanded, Prey, Observe the Lords Supper every first day of each week as taught to us by example of the 1st century Church Christ established, Give back as each of you have prospered every first day of the week according to scripture, and teach the Lords doctrine only! For there are times in which they will not endure sound doctrine, (you know the verse), and "every plant that My heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted up!
Stick only to the Bible, for God is not the author of confusion, and ultimately we all have to answer for our own lives on the level playing ground of death with nothing but the words of our Heavenly Father to judge us all by. Please, dont ere any further, align the church to Gods word or it won't be seen by God as His Sons Bride, spotless. Open your heart to let Gods word be enough! The Lord adds to His Church, not us. We are merely told to evangelize the gospel and to live as Christ. In christian love, Gino

Where is that attitude of unity?

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Prayerfully Onward,

Kevin

It's a shame that you are so ashamed of your faith that you would fail to post your name/email address.

If you're so positive of what you believe, be brave and post your name. Then, if your congregation was erroneously placed on this website, then other members should also post on it to prove or disprove the allegations.

One question that has plagued me since Sept. 11, 2000 --- are we who claim to be Christians so firm in our faith and belief that we would die for what we believed in??

In reviewing the 'white paper' sent from Farmer's Branch church of Christ, I separated out the appeal to several Hebrew MUSICAL words.

We pointed out in review that these words ALL relate to Satan, stealing one's inheritance and male and female prostitution.

These were the performing artists such as Jubal in the Bible and other characters perverted by Satan to use musical and theatrical performance to SEDUCE the holy people away from the Living Word of God. Once seduced into the valley of the Cainites (Jerusalem, Sodom, Egypt, the Assyrians, Babylon) they had FALLEN and would never get up. Why was this? it was because the MUSIC was both a cause and a MARK that people had cut themselves free of God and His word.

In the article on NAGAN and some other proof text words for playing instruments at:

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Nagan.html

We have added a rough comparison of Isaiah 47 and Revelation 18. The TYPE shows that God POLLUTED the people and drove them into captivity with the use of musical instruments where Halal means to "play the flute, pollute, prostitute or take away one's inheritance."

In Revelation 18 the end- time Babylon Harlot worship exactly fulfills Isaiah 47 where the sodomites polluted or took away the WORD of God. The king/queen of Tyre as LUCIFER or musical enchanter in the garden of Eden and the king/queen of Babylon went into SHEOL with her musicians and instruments

The end time "harp-playing prostitute" will again be polluted and driven back underground with her musicians so that there can again be peace on earth from those who perverted the Word to Sow Discord among brethren.

We have collected some other passages to PROVE that singers and musicians in a religious sense were traders or polluters because minstrels were Sodomites. The singing girls in the actual temple in Jerusalem are defined by both singing an playing as prostitutes who went along with the Sodomites polluting the temple.

http://www.piney.com/Temple-like-Nations.html

We don't know any PERFORMING ARTISTS replacing Lord Jesus in the Holy Place. However, the 100% Biblical and historical evidence makes it utterly impossible for spiritual people to even think about bringing them into the Holy Place to represent what a Christian should look like and how they should "look at me and do what I do" in worship.

Kenneth Sublett

I am a concerned memeber. I am concerned not for the actions of churches who are effectively reaching their community, but I am concerned about the thoughts and opinions expressed in this page. The very idea that there are Christians who spend more time researching petty arguments than they do giving their witness to people who don't know about Jesus Christ saddens me a great deal.

Ask yourself two questions...

What am I doing in my daily life that is allowing people who don't know about the salvation offered through Jesus Christ to know what God is offering them?

What is my church doing that is EFFECTIVELY reaching the surrounding community for Christ?

The Apostle Paul tells us that people will know of our faith not because of our correct doctine, not because of all of our right answers, not becauzse of our arguments with other churches, but because of our love.

Wise up.

Excellent response, brother. Praise the Lord for some who see what wearing the name of Jesus is really about!

Best post I have seen on this entire site. Concise, truthful, to the point and makes a point! Thank you, sir. You do get what being a Christian is about.

I couldn't agree more. Amen! I am not sure why I have spent the past 2 hours reading these posts. It is akin to watching a bad television show; I just keep hoping to find some redeeming quality. Thank you for your post.

Sam,

You would do well to take your own advice.

God commanded us to:

1 Thes 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

1 John 4:1 "believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

Matthew 24:4 "Take heed that no man deceive you."

Acts 17:11 "search the scriptures daily, whether those things were so"

Phil 1:10 "approve things that are excellent"

2 Tim 2:15-16 "rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings"

Jude 3 "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints"

2 Tim 4:2-3 "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

We are:

Eph 5:10 "proving what is acceptable unto the Lord"

We know that:

1 Cor 2:15 "he that is spiritual judgeth all things"

People will not know Christ by us singing Barney songs ("I love you, you love me"), but by teaching the Word (which your post was evidently lacking).

So, Sam, wise up and start doing what God has commanded you to do.

Prayerfully Onward,

Kevin

Thanks you for your insightful, right-on-target post. This "Concerned Members" web site represents the last gasp of the ultra-conservatives in the Churches of Christ.

Thankfully, they will soon be an irrelevant part of our history.

Onward and Upward.

No. Nothing could cause the PENDULUM to swing to the RIGHT extreme with greater force than the LIBERAL who believes that not lying about the Bible on things like pagan music is evil. The swing is going and we will have to await the firing of INFILTRATING AND DIVERTING musical "preachers" and the restoration of both RIGHT and LEFT to the middle which makes church A SCHOOL OF CHRIST and doesn't try to get into my mind or spirit and LEAD me into worship. Here is the way it is prophesied of those who PROMISE LIBERTY in exchange for an unlawful salary:

"The VILE person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl (withholding) said to be bountiful (freedom). Isaiah 32:5

----"The vile person- nabal, the pampered, fattened, brainless fellow, who eats to live, and lives to eat; who will scarcely part with any thing, and that which he does give he gives with an evil eye and a grudging heart. Adam Clark

For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the Lord,
--to make empty the soul of the hungry,
-----and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail. Isaiah 32:6

Starving people with music is also the theme of Amos 5, 6, 8 and Isaiah 5.

--And the Lord said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish (vile) shepherd. Zech 11:15

-----Instruments (h3627) instrument, jewel, psaltery, sack, stuff, thing, tool, vessel, ware, weapon, / whatsoever.

For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still:
--but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. Zech 11:16

He is taking a JOB where no job exists and using MUSIC to tear off the fat or TITHE of your hard earned money. Why gloat that one is being stripped of their fat and exult in being MIND CONTROLLED? Because the Vile person pretends to be a LIBERAL but he is just a CHURL and people love to have it so.

Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened. Zech 11:17

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. John 10:11

But he that is an hireling (wage worker), and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. John 10:12

The Vile person is empty like the familiar spirit or a harp:

Vile is: Nabal (h5036) naw-bawl'; from 5034; stupid; wicked (espec. impious): - fool (-ish, -ish man, -ish woman), vile person.

Nebel (h5035) neh'-bel; from 5034; a skin- bag for liquids (from collapsing when empty); hence a vase (as similar in shape when full); also a lyre (as having a body of like form): - bottle, pitcher, psaltery, vessel, viol

"they employed on their light, enervating unmeaning music, and if they were in earnest enough, justified their inventions by the example of David... The word can mean no other than devise. He introduced into the Temple-service the use of the stringed instruments, the kinnor, (the lyre) and the nebel (the harp) in addition to the cymbals.

Whence these, in contrast to the trumpets, are called the instruments of David." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 308

-----Improvizing: "It is commonly used with abstract nouns as, devices, evil, vanity; but always in the meaning of 'devising,' 'inventing.'... It is used also of war-like machines." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 308)\

The evidence is 100% that music is used by Satan to STEAL the Word of God and divert His worship to the team: it began in heaven, the garden of Eden and will be the MARK of the end time Babylon Whore who uses music and musicians (Rev. 18).

Don't let the preacher men steal your "fat" as Paul warned you and history repudiates them and spits them out of its mouth. You pro-musical "guys" are having a good effect on once instrumental groups.

VILE defines all SINGING and INSTRUMENTAL terms in the Bible. Singers and players were prostitutes or Sodomites in Jerusalem. The Levitical singers were performing the TYPE of mocking Jesus by the homosexual priesthood as they SLAUGHTERED Him: but the vile could never enter into the Holy Place or church of Christ.

So, don't blame the Annymouses for hiding in the closet. Liberal Christians are LIBERAL with MY property but they GIVE nothing. They MOCK the word liberal.


Ken Sublett

Sam: The Apostle Paul tells us that people will know of our faith not because of our correct doctine, not because of all of our right answers, not becauzse of our arguments with other churches, but because of our love.

Ken: No, Sam, that is a lie. You have been listening to preachers riding tandem on the back of widows too long. Wise up and SEND THEM OUT. A "located evangelists" is like a located traveling salesman. I don't remember ever learning ANYTHING from a preacher.

Jesus said that if you LOVE ME you will keep MY commandments. People who don't sing and clap LOVE MORE than anyone who would clap--meaning to drive a tent peg into a head--in the face of Lord Jesus Christ when HE is trying to be our ONE AND ONLY Teacher and Preacher through His Word.

John Calvin asked: "Why should the plouging oxen starve and the lazy asses be fed." Paul would say that it was a DIRECT COMMAND and his APPROVED PATTERN that "if he will not work neither let him eat."

Now, the method of Jesus was that you made converts by sending evangelists OUT. Church is not about evangelism: it like the synagogue is A SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. Even the Lord's Supper is a preaching or showing forth of the death of Christ. If you sing and clap the watching world will think that you are queer.

The Levites were NOT musicians. They made a great, crashing NOISE while the TYPE of Lord Jesus Christ was being slaughtered and burned. No Jewish singer or musician and not even the vilest pagan temples were so vile that they allowed them into the holy places. The Holy Place was a type of the church of Christ: all singers and musicians who claim to lead you into the presence of God have blasphemed and if you clap you blaspheme.

The singers and players around the temple area were PROSTITUTES and SODOMITES. This is verified by the meaning of all SINGING AND PLAYING words which relate to the minstrel or prostitutes. Remember that Jesus put the musical minstrels out "more or less violently"?

Paul authorized NO local preachers: the elders have one direct command which is "to teach that WHICH HAS BEEN WRITTEN and refute those who oppose it." The deacons were younger TEACHERS able to go out from the local flock.

No, Sam, you fib about Paul who set the pattern of a suffering servant for evangelists and the people's minds which have been dissociated with music clap their little hands. No. Sam. We are waiting for your proof text which the clappers despise.

The WHITE PAPER was filled with BLACK LIES: every proof text for music as worship perverted the Scripture and it is credit to the discorders that YOU GUYS couldn't tell the difference. Why do you applaud so loudly for your lack of the Word and therefore the Spirit of Christ? Huh? I'll tell you what Paul did say of the Corinthians: "Fools love to be fooled." kno dat?

Ken Sublett

I just can not believe what I am reading on this website! Have none of you learned anything from the way Jesus responded to the Pharisees in His day? I wonder what He would say in response to all of the things that you post on this website and the arrogant tone of your words? Stirring up trouble is nothing new, it preceded the crucifixion.

Has anyone ever noticed that "liberals" can holler and scream, kick and figt, murmur and complain about us "old foggys", "commandment keepers", "five- steppers", etc, but when we "blow the whistle" on their false doctrine, they want to start talking love. Mr. Saddlebrook, you would condemn the same apostle you like to quote all the time, and your ignorance of the Bible shows. The ONLY way you can be saved is to continue in THE DOCTRINE !!!! A good friend of mine has an excellent quote..."You haven't been loved ...until you've been loved by a liberal." Friends, dont let there talk about love confuse you, just place them in a room with conservative Bible-believing members of the true church of Christ, and they willfight mean and dirty !! These change agents are sneaky liars that have overtaken many congregations, and I for one am not afraid to speak out against them. If you liberals are soooooo loving, why do you all create nasty little remarks and names for the conservative members of the church? Where I attend and preach we are a growing, young congregation of faithful Christians, who love the commandments of or Lord, and while we do not claim to be perfect, we do walk in the light, and submit to His will. We have patience with the weak, ,and encourage the erring, and teach the lost. But if you come to Lindsay, Ok as a change agent, you will find yourself being "MARKED AND AVOIDED" (Romans 16:17) if you do not repent, after you are warned by the elders !!!

STAND UP FOR JESUS !!!!
Brant Stubblefield
preacher for the church of Christ in LIndsay, Ok

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ:

--- "The leadership believes it is time to launch a third worship assembly for the sake of making a proactive effort to make MORE SPACE for more people to "park" - 'outside' and 'inside' FBCC.

------"It also believes this third service would be an appropriate time to explore and EXPERIMET more thoroughly in regard to instrumental accompaniment in a worship assembly.

We can tell you: flat out, instrumental music will attract those who are attracted to MUSIC but those with minimal Biblical literacy will not be attracted. Lord Jesus Christ is the ONLY ATTRACTION for a FAITHFUL church of Christ where HE is the only TEACHER and HIS words or "that which is written" are the only songs. Anything else is GOING BEYOND, and is NOT Christianity.

The Words of Christ are self-validating because according to Jeus they are Spirit and Life. Paul's ONLY WORSHIP word means to "give heed" to Jesus Christ by GIVING HEED to His Words and remembering His DEATH. Peter said that when you give heed to the WORD the DAY STAR rises in our heart. At the same time, the false redemeer "day star", Lucifer, is the "harp-playing prostitute" and seduces you away from the word.

When you IMPROVIZE or EXPERIMENT you fall sucker to SATAN'S fatal flaw which made him a FALLEN ANGEL or wandering STAR. He, too, came to earth with MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS even in the garden of Eden and "experimented" with Eve.

The JUBAL FAMILY experimented with instrumental music (without authority according to the Bible).

Right off the ark they EXPERIMENTED at the Tower of Babel.

At MOUNT SINAI they EXPERIMENTED with Satan worship held in the NAME of Jehovah: He was not flattered.

Amos speaks of those who IMPROVIZED as DAVID improvized.

All failures under the influence of Satan are because people were LIFTED UP WITH PRIDE and thought that they could IMPROVIZE and be "a better- than Jesus."

This is a fatal flaw and in the Bible it is BEYOND REDEMPTION. Paul in Hebrews 6 speaks of those who have TASTED the Word, and then EXPERIMENT, as having committed the unforgivable sin.

Take a look at some EXPERIMENTING as fatal flaws in the Bible

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Experiment.html

100% of the Biblical and historical evidence associates "music" with idolatry.

Sure, if you believe God then the MAJORITY will try to silence the word of God and "deadening music" is the MARK God defined at Mount Sinai where Saturn (666) was the primary star of Israel.

Kenneth Sublett

Let me begin with telling you one of the names of Satan: it is SATURN. In the Chaldee his number is 666.

When Israel repudiated God's Covenant of Grace, just as He expected that they would, by rising up to play in musical idolatry it was the worship of the STARRY HOSTS including Saturn who is primarily Chiun in Amos' repudiation of music but is also Molech.

God gave them the LAW as punishment and TURNED THEM OVER to worship that which they LUSTED FOR. This was the worship of Saturn and other planets along with the SUN and moon. Their worship, government, temple and most rituals were BABYLONIAN or "like the nations" as God gave them kings to lead them into captivity and death.

The Sabbath was NEVER a day of worship but of REST. By restricting the activities of the Jews God used FORCE to keep a few away from sabbath WORSHIP which had it origin (like the tithe) in Babylon. Solomon actually built temples for them.

Christmas rituals and Candle Light Services are the direct worship of these pagan idols including Lucifer (ZOE) who is the "light giver" of the knowledge of good and evil even in the garden of Eden. That is what Paul meant when he absolutely restricted non-sedentary roles for women in worship. They or the effete counterpart will always (because they did always) turn the church to lights (fire worship) and music (given by Lucifer to steal worship from God.)

A horrified lady watched Cosmic Christmas and verified what I had been reporting about it. Along with Rubel Shelly's "baptizing Santa" and the S.U.N. god to think of the S.O.N. god, Max rebottles the ancient Gnostic views about Christ and Christmas taught by the Orphites (serpent worshipers) and Cainites (Judas worshipers).

I have posted the Shamash or S.U.N. worship of Cosmic Christmas here to show you where this stuff was hatched:

http://www.piney.com/Shamash.html

I have also posted the Madison's new worship leaders comments on CANDLE LIGHT MASS (Christ MASS) to show that this is all the worship of Molech whose "candle" was lit by infants along with the "fingers of unborn babies" which made VERY POWERFUL candles.

http://www.piney.com/MuCandles.html

John Mark Hicks a pal of Rubel Shelly and Max Lucado warn that their INCARNATION views may deny that Christ came fully in the flesh. We believe that Cosmic Christmas proves it. If so this would be identical to the meaning of Anti-Christ.

Any Christmas ritual worshiping an infant is identical to Babylonian MOTHER GODDESS WORSHIP. All Christmas or candle light (fire or serpent worship) is derived from Catholic MOTHER OF GOD worship which demands an "eternal child" which Catholics confess to having borrowed from paganism to ATTRACT the pagans.

Not so new or innovative, if you ask me. But it is the prophesied end-time Babylonian worship FULL BLOWN.

Kenneth Sublett

You are way out there. Where do you come up with your jibbersih? That's all it is is jibberish! Why don't you say something that is worth reading.

I have tried to personally communicate with the music minister at Farmer's Branch and show that every PROOF TEXT for the use of instrumental music in Spiritual worship has been terribly perverted. I just don't know why.

I read his first report after the Sabbath (Saturn is 666) worship with music and honoring the First Born on the Seventh (Saturn) day with the Lord's Supper and PRESIDE OVER females. I get the feeling that he might have worried that God was going to do something bad. No! God uses all kinds to MARK OUT for the end time.

Remember that when His messenger THRUSTS IN THE SICKLE the image is that of SATURN (666) and sickle in Hebrew is one of those NAMES OF MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS because they were ONLY useful for STEALING ONE'S INHERITANCE or "PRUNING YOUR VINES."

Shouldn't trust in growth because it was prophesied that Jesus would not CALL AN ASSEMBLY and where masses are gathered the birds or demons will circle plucking up the seed. He will only meet you "outside the camp" and Maccabees shows that both CAMPS were devoted to ZEUS and DIONYSUS or BACCHUS whose "priests" piped trying to get Jesus to sing and dance.

I have noticed that the SEED PLUCKING movement has been slightly distanced from the church. You can keep updated here:

http://www.fbextreme.com/

I couldn't miss the SYMBOLISM of the S.U.N. glasses and the urge to "Come catch some S.O.N. this Saturday." Music, even in Jerusalem, was devoted to the S.U.N. or Astrial deities of which SATURN (666) was very important in "catching" children to be DEDICATED to Satan. You will CATCH some more of this in First Maccabees.

How better to HATCH new kiddies by using THAT WHICH HAS ALREADY DESTROYED SO MANY and then USE them as fodder to feed the hired hands on the Lord's Day.

It is called EXTREME WORSHIP EXPERIENCE. Let me remind you that like movie plots, there are very few TYPES of Abomination of Desolation. These types are fulfilled in the key LOSTNESS periods of Judaism and Christianity. The Book of Maccabees proves that the TEMPLE worship at Gerezim and Jerusalem was devoted to ZEUS and Dionysus or Bacchus (The "god" of the New Wineskin).

Untruthful handling of the WORD of God is the CAUSE but MUSIC is the MARK or sign of lostness beyond redemption.

When you see "music" used AS worship you know that the same agents are promoting NEW WINESKIN worship which is the worship of the S.U.N. God (Santa, Satan).

The NEW STYLE began with the GYMNASIUM and MUSICAL IDOLATRY where both male and female "musicians" (always the Harem of the Gods) came into the Holy Place as the type of the church of Christ.

I see some connection:

http://www.piney.com/2Macc.html

If you think that I am over reaching just read Revelation 18. And be advised that God will not stop you as you separate out the different MARKS but Saturn (Sabbath) has the number 666 and he is also Apollo the father of the Seeker-Center. He was the father of musical harmony, twanging bowstrings, thieves and liars. He is Abbadon or Apollyon and the signs include the MARK of music versus the MARK of the Word.

The Biblical and other evidence written long before Moses is that once you have fallen into the MUSIC trap you have fallen and you will never get up. However, God sends strong delusions to make you keep on singing, playing and clapping.

Rejecting God's Word or covenant of Grace at Mount Sinai caused them to rise up in MUSICAL PLAY or idolatry. The BOOK OF THE LAW was the MARK imposed because of their transgression. Don't be fooled because MUSICAL worship is LEGALISTIC worship trying to PROP UP the "failing" god.

Truth ALWAYS hurts when you are soul sick: I don't intend to offend you but you must feel that you have been trapped. Satan used it on Eve in the garden. He was not a snake: he was a MUSICAL ENCHANTER as all history knows.

Ken Sublett: This is the third time and more.

Having just today read all the posts to this original message regarding Farmers Branch and to all the liberals out there and especially to those who made their posts, I have observed that you only make your snide remarks without any scriptural references to back up your thinking. If you cannot find clapping or the use of instruments in worship to God, praise teams, "all you need is love" thinking, etc., in scripture, you need to rethink the stand you have taken. You have become another denomination. How does it feel to be in the denominational world?

I'm simply amazed at the level of spite on this website. It seems that there are people whose sole purpose is tear apart the church, not build it up.

And to Mr. Sublett (I apologize if I'm mispelling your name, sir)...

I don't understand how you can take God-breathed scripture and pervert is as you do. My earlier post was based on Scripture.

Patsy,

Thanks for your well-thought and nicely worded response. I appreciate that though we disagree, that you keep your thoughts civil.

You did write something that troubled me. I will try to reciprocate your respectful post by doing the same (who knows, maybe we'll start a trend), and hopefully, some intelligent, relevant discussion can come out of this. I'm not looking to pick a fight, I just want to have some honest dialogue.

You said something to the effect of "all you need is love" not being a Biblically based philosphy. I agree that you need more than love, but if we are not operating out of love, then our actions are not worth anything. To act on love is the most Christ-like thing we can as believers in an unbelieveing world. I'm going to include some scriptures here to support what I'm saying...

Lev. 19:18
"You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD. "

Prov. 10:12
"Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions."

Matt. 5:44
"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"

Matt. 19:19
"HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

John 13:34
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

John 15:17
"This I command you, that you love one another."

Romans 12:10
"Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor"

Romans 13:8
"Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law."

1 Cor. 16:14
"Let all that you do be done in love."

Gal. 5:6
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love."

Phil. 2:1-2
"Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose."

Col 3:14
"Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity."

1 Tim. 1:5
"But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith."

Heb. 13:1
"Let love of the brethren continue."

1 John 3:11
"For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another"

Patsy, you and I can disagree on clapping, praise teams, instruments, and other things, but the Kindgom can't afford to have believers disagreeing on the centrality of love to our faith and actions.

Love is the essence of our faith, and when it all comes down to it, all we need as the Church is love. Everything else springs out of this. True doctrine, evangelism, worship, teaching, they all flow out of this basic principle modeled to us by Christ.

I'd love to hear your thoughts so we can discuss it further.

Mr. Sublett, I have kept my thoughts quite concise and have not rambled. I have kept the source of my comments to NOTHING BUT scripture. If you choose to reply, please do the same. Your thoughts that come from Greek mythology and other websites have no bearing on any of these conversations, and quite frankly, make no sense.

I attended your church on Mother's Day 2002. I came away feeling that I had not worshipped God at all. I had attended a well orchestrated play. Yes, you showed a lot of love during the service, but I wanted to hear God's word preached. I did not want to see babies dedicated, hear hand clapping, or see everyone raising their hands and swaying during songs.
I did not need the lights to be dimmed during a certain part of a prayer to make me feel closer to God.
I didn't need 4 to 5 people standing up with microphones to help me sing better. I feel sorry for all the people that are going to that church and think they're doing the right thing. I feel sorry for the people who are going to that church knowing that they are teaching wrong.
Please, if you're going to continue worshipping in this way, at least take the name Church of Christ off your sign. If you do, you'll at least keep a faithful member from attending your church and missing worshipping in truth and spirit at a true Church of Christ.

Thanks.

Could you please offer some scriptures to back-up these harsh charges. Here is mine, John 13:34-35. Matt

Sam,
I am a faithful member of a church of Christ in the dfw area. The one thing I would appriciate from those that write into this forum is that they all use the KJV of the
Bible. As most of the scriptures you used did not come from a KJV then it makes me confused as to how you can teach the truth about Love yet not use the true word of God.
I do know that your concluding statement is incorrect:
"Love is the essence of our faith, and when it comes down to it, all we need as the Church is love. Everthing ese spings out of this. True doctrine, evangelism, worship, teaching, they all flow out of this basic principle modeled to us by Christ".
Error taught as correct is still error. Our Faith comes from the word of God: Rom. 10:17. We do not gain faith from love. To understand the Love that God has for us we need to read his word. Love is not the center of the kingdom-- obedience is: Eccl.12:13; Josh. 24,I Sam.15:22,
Acts 5:29. If I don't obey his word love is nothing. Love will not save me from Hell. Only obeying God's word will.
Love is important as a Christian, yet we cannot not allow love to become the dominant theme in our churches. Do not be blinded by love and lose the emphesis of our mission. Which is 3 fold. 1.Seek and save the lost Luke 19:10, Matt.28:19. 2. Save ourselves I Tim.4:16, 3. Teach the word of God I Tim. 4:16, II Tim.2:15, Matt. 28:19, II Tim.3:16-17. IF you can do these things then the Love that God showed us in sending his Son to die for our sins will not be wasted.
Remember that God is a God of Love and a God of destruction for those that do not follow his word. Look to the old Testiment for examples.
God loves us and love is important to all Christians. But we must still obey his word, we must still teach the truth.
Thank you for your attention. Sorry this is late in the list but I don't have time to read everything listed here. It is always insiteful and helpful. TO those that read this note, hopefully you will all understand one thing if nothing else. Obey is more important than sacrifice II Sam.15:22(KJV).
Duane

Sam, Sam, you haven't quoted a single scripture. Just wanted people to know that that is NOT the truth.

Second, Sam and all, false teachers LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL the "church houses of widows." However, if the White paper full of Black lies perverts a particular passage and I quote the passage in context and prove that it is a LIE then Sam CLAIMS that to be SPITE. I think maybe Sam is a singy-clappy type and can't stand CONFLICT which is DIALOG.

Sam, that is what your THOUGHT MISLEADERS have taught you to think. They know that to RESIST the Devil and he will flee from you. And ANY opposition is like opposing "celestial beings." I am not INTIMIDATED, Sam.

Well, Sam, students of the Bible know that the overwhelming majority of the Bible is to OPPOSE false RELIGIONS. Lord Jesus Christ died to remove the very system you guys are defending. So, don't believe that LYING about your own QUOTATIONS and claiming that I have none is going to FLY.

Here is the BASIS of my REQUESTED review to refute Farmer's Branch WHITE PAPER to authorize SABBATH WORSHIP, choirs and INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC. All of THEIR proof texts are jerked out by their roots and there is not a GRAIN of truth in their list of arguments.

My rebuttal is defined by Sam as SPITE. Get over it Sam, you are DEFENDING ancient paganism condemned from Genesis to Revelation with chapter 18 speaking of the demise of the HOLY WHORE system of worship with INSTRUMENTS. Now, Sam, lest they think that I am the liar, I repost the REVIEW: count the passages.

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Music.html

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-MusicB.html

Farmer's Branch lists some of the MUSICAL terms and names of INSTRUMENTS. We will show that 100% of the terms used in the Old and New Testament have ROOTS meaning "to play the flute, pollute, prostitute, make self vile, perverted sexuality and the fact that Lucifer or Satan taught the YOUTH how to SEDUCE people away from the WORD:

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Nagan.html

See how they are EXPERIMENTING to determine AUTHORITY:

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Experiment.html

SAM, this is enough TRUTH research to FUEL your preachers for ten years or more: expecially if they spend most of the time PERVERTING IT.

Count the Scriptural quotations and tell the good people again that Ken doesn't quote.

Sam's job is to REFUTE anything that I have said to prove that MUSICAL WORSHIP DOES NOT HAVE its Satanic roots. In the Bible and history musical religious performers have the PERSONA of prostitutes or perverts.

Why doesn't SAM read the papers and tell us that that is not still the persona including so-called CCM. So, why PICK them to PRESIDE OVER YOU with their own infantile PRAISE TUNES which are identified in the earliest history as part of NECROMANCY or SOOTHSAYING or ENCHANTMENT just as the serpent in the garden of Eden was a MUSICAL ENCHANTER or ENCHANTRESS depending on whether it was Adam or Eve.

Ken Sublett

I just wanted to say that in all fairness, it appears that Mr. Sublett's post was NOT in response to my post immediately above his, but rather, in response to my earlier post.

I think we were posting at the same time.

I appreciate your dialogue, Mr. Sublett. I am not looking to avoid it. I will take the time to read the papers that you have provided links to and will respond once I am more informed about the support for you opinions.

JUST ONE PROOF TEXT FROM FARMER'S, Sam, for most who will not PLOUGH THROUGH the review of Farmer's Justification for music. It is typical of those who denounce non-instrumentalists for SOWING DISCORD. Their research paper is like too many sermons: they read just a verse which uses MUSIC or SINGING and PLAYING and the claim that this PROVES that the Jews ALWAYS worshiped God with SINGING and PLAYING INSTRUMENTS. That is not remotely true. For instance.

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: The Leadership's Position In Light Of The Scriptures, There are NUMEROUS REFERENCES in the Bible to SINGING with and the PLAYING of musical instruments IN WORSHIP to God.

No, that is not a fact. This paper will quote not a single passage relating to congregational singing with instruments. Children, shepherds, camp followers, magicians and prostitutes played music for fun and PROFIT. The warrior Levites "under the KING and COMMANDERS OF THE ARMY served the PRIESTS as they slaughtered and burned animals IN THE COURT. The sacrificed animals were a carnal type of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

The noise makers (not musicians) were in the COURT and not in the Holy Place. The Holy Place even as a carnal type of the church of Christ was off limits to any SINGER or MUSICIAN. The RISING UP TO PLAY at Mount Sinai was singing, playing and more. David "rose up to play" as he SEPARATED the Ark of the Covenant and brought it to Jerusalem which was a JEBUSITE HIGH PLACE because David was TOO FEARFUL of God to ever return to the Tabernacle. David was not a WORSHIP LEADER. No Israelite community EVER WORSHIPED with singing and INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC. So, why is it HATEFUL to tell you that the WHITE PAPER perverts every musical statement in the Bible? The animal slaughter with LOUD NOISE to drown out the horrors was OFF LIMITS to the common people. They worshiped by living right and practicing social justice. They went to the SYNAGOGUE (Qahal) as the "church in the wilderness" only for TEACHING and God OUTLAWED this non-music for the ASSEMBLY.

As prophesied in Psalm 41, the WARRIOR MUSICIANS tipped off by Judas would MOCK Jesus as He was being prepared for the crucifixion. The music was the ALARM or TRIUMPH OVER. This is defined as "playing instruments and 'making a joyful noise before the Lord'." This was the almost universal WARRIOR'S CHANT to create PANIC as in the story of Gideon. The Jews would accuse Jesus of being BEEL-ZEBUB (Hebrew Dung God) and then attack Him with mocking music. This is fully recorded in pre-Christian translations of the Psalm at the Dead Sea. The JUDAS BAG was always attached to a FLUTE CASE and is defined and PICTURED for you to see as meaning A CASE FOR CARRYING THE MOUTHPIECES OR 'TONGUES' OF WIND INSTRUMENTS." It is pictured in the drunken DIONYSUS KOMO with CHORUS exactly conveying the meaning when they PIPED hoping Jesus would sing and dance the DIONYSUS dance.

Here is the almost- universal meaning of what is PERVERTED to be spiritual worship:

And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper. 2 Chron 20:20

And when he had CONSULTED with the people, he appointed SINGERS unto the Lord, and that should praise the beauty of holiness, as they went out before the ARMY, and to say, Praise the Lord; for his mercy endureth for ever. 2 Chron 20: 21

Then and now music was used to panic the enemy. By the playing of instruments and singing a BOAST song you tried to convince the enemy to turn coward and surrender or run for their lives. PRAISE is the Hebrew:

Halal (h1984) haw-lal'; a prim. root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show, to boast; boast self

IT IS THE SOURCE of the word translated LUCIFER. So, be careful HOW you praise in MAKING A SHOW. The Lucifer principle is to BLEED OFF worship due only to God.

Heylel (h1966) hay-lale'; from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star: - Lucifer.

---How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Is.14:12

Imagine a troop led by bagpipers approaching your lines and you can get the "high" feeling which is not spiritual:

And when they began to SING and to PRAISE, the Lord set AMBUSHMENTS against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were SMITTEN. 2 Chron 20: 22

Here is how the DSS defines the AMBUSHMENT

[The Rule of the Trumpets: the trumpets] of alarm for all their service for the [ . . . ] for their commissioned men, 17[by tens of thousands and thousands and hundreds and fifties] and tens. Upon the t[rumpets . . . ]

[ . . . ] )8[ . . . ] 19[ . . . which ] 20 [,, . they shall write . . . the trumpets of Col. 3 the battle formations, and the trumpets for assembling them when the gates of the war are opened so that the infantry might advance, the trumpets for the signal of the SLAIN, the trumpets of 2 the AMBUSH, the trumpets of PURSUIT when the enemy is DEFEATED, and the trumpets of reassembly when the BATTLE returns.

On the trumpets for their campaigns they shall write,

"The mighty deeds of God to SCATTER the enemy and to put all those who hate justice to flight and a WITHDRAWAL of mercy from all who hate God."

But if they establish an AMBUSH for a battle formation, the three ambushing formations shall [stay at a dist]ance and not ris[e up . . . ] '3 [ . . . ] the battle.

When they [h]ear the trumpets of ALARM, the [infantry]men [shall begin to bring down the guilty casualties. Then the AMBUH shall rise up from its place and also order its [battle form]ations [ . . . 3

14 The reassembly: from the right and left, from be[hind and before, the f]our direction[s . . . ] in the battles of ANNIHILATION.
----Then the priests shall blow on the six trumpets of the SLAIN a sharp staccato note to direct the battle,
----and the Levites and all the people with rams' horns shall blow a great BATTLE ALARM together in order to MELT the heart of the enemy.

MUSIC WAS ALWAYS HATE FOR THE ENEMY: TO TRIUMPH OVER THEM. That is what is going on in apostate churches of Christ.

LOVE tells you the truth: There is no MUSIC word used in the Bible of Spiritual worship. ALL musical terms or names of instruments are derived from EVIL OR POLLUTION and are ultimately TAUGHT BY SATAN to keep people from LISTENING to the WORDS OF CHRIST. If you listen to the silly PRAISE SONGS you will be able to HEAR that it is not JESUS you are giving heed to NOR are you SPEAKING OR PREACHING TO ONE ANOTHER with "that which is written, the Word of Christ or the Spirit."

Worship in a PHYSICAL SENSE means to fall in utter SILENCE and REVERENCE on your face. You CANNOT worship while flinging your arms and playing music. You are TRIUMPHING OVER others PREVENTING their worship in THEIR spirit into which singers and players CANNOT GO: it is the THRONE ROOM where God meet us ONE PRIEST at a time.

David MEDITATED or MUSED in his heart when he worshiped. Jesus therefore said that God ONLY SEEKS those who worship in the PLACE of the human spirit as it GIVES HEED to the Spirit of Truth. The Gerezim and Jerusalem mountains were PLACES. Therefore, worship IN SPIRIT is not the pagan ENTHUS O MANIA or madness as in Corinth. Worship is in the SPIRIT which is a PLACE and not with outward show. Paul said that Christians of the Circumcised WORSHIP GOD IN THE SPIRIT and give no place for the FLESH. Musical worship is FLESH WORSHIP and true worshipers CANNOT worship IN SPIRIT or in the MIND while the children are PIPING still trying to make Christians SING and DANCE which is PAGAN.

For those who are willing to SOW DISCORD and create division all over the world just so they can do what many brag about doing--changing church into a THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMENT-any rebuttal seems unloving. And I admit that I have no tenderness in my heart for people I see as historically destructive sowers of discord. In the Book of Enoch, Jubiless etc., God reserves JUDGMENT specificially for those who let Satan lead them into SEDUCING God's holy people using music. I am not that unkind.

Ken Sublett

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ PROOF TEXT: The words "psallo" and "psalmos" as used in secular Greek literature from the 5th century B.C. to the 2nd century A.D.
----apparently never referred to singing but only to the playing or the sound of an instrument.
===================================================

Even in the Attic world before PSALLO lost its image of musical perversion, it is defined just like a SONG is defined. It is METRICAL and therefore:

Psalmos (g5568) psal-mos'; from 5567;
---a set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode
------accompanied with the VOICE,
------harp or other instrument; a "psalm"); collect.
------the book of the Psalms: - psalm. Comp. 5603.

Nothing written as a modern PRAISE song qualifies. And the HUMAN VOICE is always the FIRST INSTRUMENT OF CHOICE in the Greek world which had LITTLE instrumental art. Throughout the Old and New Testaments, an INSTRUMENT is never INCLUDED in MELODY unless that instrument is NAMED. For instance:

----Am.5:23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy VIOLS

----Is.23:16 Take an HARP, go about the city, thou HARLOT that hast been forgotten; make sweet MELODY, SING many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.

Make MELODY in the HEART names the first instrument of Choice and THEREFORE EXCLUDES another INSTRUMENT.

Paul said that we should SPEAK ONE TO ANOTHER with the INSPIRED TEXT in order to TEACH (and not seduce). The melody is IN THE HEART because you CANNOT speak to teach and SING at the same time.

We first heart this false argument from Milton Jones who also turned the church of Christ into a MUSICAL church. The argument goes that Lucian of Samosata used PSALLO (melody) to include instrument long after Paul used the word. Therefore, even after KOINE Greek took over from ATTIC Greek the word STILL included instruments. JONES Quotes:

The false Proof-Text: "You cannot psallein (or psallo) WITHOUT an instrument"

First, it is perfectly clear that Lucian was a SYRIAN who learned ATTIC Greek and used it in Greece because it was still the ARISTOCRATIC language. If you wanted to sell your speeches to KINGS you wrote in Attic. All public speakers and musicians were known as PARASITES or SPONGERS.

Next, since I have a four volume set of Lucian I can quote it to make sense. Lucian, also a PARASITE, actually wrote of HIS art of SPONGING:

"Other arts, again, are useless to their professor unless he has his plant;

----you cannot PLAY the FLUTE if you HAVE NOT ONE to play;

----LYRICAL music requires a LYRE,
----horsemanship a horse.

----But of ours (sponging selling speeches and songs) one of the excellences and conveniences is that

----no instrument is required for its exercise. The Parasite, 17. Translated by H. W. and F. G. Fowler, Vol III, 1905

Lyric: 1. of a lyre 2. SUITABLE for singing as to the accompaniment of a lyre. Webster

Lucian wrote about BOY worship ministers.

Alexander the Oracle Monger knew that you could pervert the "fat heads and simpletons" by just playing the flute. However, ALL "musical worship teams" consisted of men like the Pope's A Cappella choir in early days:

--The scoffer Lucian pours out his sarcasm in a passage in which he speaks of the fraudulent prophet Alexander of Abonouteichos (the Oracle Monger), who kept CHOIR BOYS in the service of the GODS with him:

--To all OTHERS he forbade pederasty (Platonic love of a man for a boy) as shameful. In order NOT to admit his OWN guilt in this matter, however, the admirable fellow devised the following scheme:

--he proposed to the cities in Paphlagonia and Pontus that every three years they should send him CHOIR BOYS who would sing hymns of praise with him to the god.

--Moreover, only the noblest, fairest and most charming boys were to be sent -- after a previous careful examination.

--These he confined with himself, slept with and abused with every possible lechery. (Lucian, Alexander, 41.247}

--Choirs were used because "Thus they led the SIMPLE into error and sought to bewitch the ears of lay people, who are easily led astray by hymns and melodies."

This is why the Jews PIPED hoping to seduce Jesus into the Dionysus SONG and DANCE. Music was the arena of the male of female PROSTITUTE and you seduced them FOR PAY and PRIVATE USE: never for true WORSHIP.

http://www.piney.com/Lucianalexander.html

THERE IS NO EXCEPTION: HISTORY KNOWS OF NO INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC IN THE POST BIBLICAL WORLD WHICH IS NOT USED BY MALE AND FEMALE PROSTITUTES OF THE "LOWER CLASSES" WHO ENTERTAINED AT FESTIVALS. NONE.

THAT IS STILL THE PERSONA OF THE MUSIC AND THEATER WORLD.

Ken Sublett

We have discussed on other forums the fact that among the Greeks, who influenced the Jews, there was a SECT of the Pharisees, a SECT of the Scribes and a SECT of the HYPOCRITES in the group of PERFORMERS.

In the Greek world the major SECTARIANS were "rhetoricians, sOPHISts (Ophis is the SERPENT in Revelation), singers, musicians and craftsmen who made the religious theater possible. The same Greek resources identify them as the SORCERERS in Revelation. As the SERPENT in the garden is identified as a MUSICAL ENCHANTER (the harp-playing prostitute), the singers, musicians and SOPHISTS in revelation are the SERPENTS sent from hell to ENCHANT people away from the WORD of Christ.

All as a group were identified as PARASITES who aided the priests in pagan sacrificial religions. Since Jesus Christ fulfilled ALL of the types including being MOCKED with the Levitical Warrior Musicians, any religious PERFORMER is a PARASITE beyond redemption. And so, the Old Testament identifies them all as "fallen and unable to ever get back up."

We have claimed that this is the UNIVERSAL view of the Bible, the Classics and the church Fathers or theologians. ANYONE is welcomed to suggest ANYONE who did not agree other than those where FLUTE-GIRL was PROSTITUTE under the controller of the DUNG HEAP.

For instance:

John Chrysostom, born AD 347, Antioch, Syria, died September 14, 407

http://www.piney.com/FatChrysTheodLetter1.html

Parasites. The message of the Bible and most contemporaneous literature is that SATAN or LUCIFER brought wind, string and percussion instruments into the garden of Eden. That is why the SERPENT is defined by a very well-known word to be a MUSICAL ENCHANTER. The other message is that once you have FALLEN into Lucifer's SEDUCTION with music, you will NEVER get out of the seduction any better than did Eve. John Chrysostom wrote to Theodore after his fall:

"Wherefore I pray and beseech you to banish all this Satanic mode of thinking from your soul, and to return to this state of salvation. For if indeed I were commanding you to ascend to your former altitude all at once,
..you would naturally complain of there being MUCH DIFFICULTY in doing this:
....but if all which I now ask you to do is to GET UP and return thence in the OPPOSITE direction, why do you hesitate, and shrink, and make a RETROGRADE movement? Have you not seen those who have died in the midst of luxury and drunkenness, and SPORT and all the other folly of this life?

..Where are they now who used to strut through the market place with much pomp, and a crowd of attendants? who were clothed in silk and redolent with perfumes, and kept a table for their PARASITES, and were in constant attendance at the THEATER?
....What has now become of all that PARADE of theirs? It is all gone;-the costly splendour of their banquets, the throng of MUSICIANS, the attentions of FLATTERERS, the loud LAUGHTER,
......the relaxation of spirit, the ENERVATION of mind, the voluptuous, abandoned, extravagant manner of life-it has all come to an end.

"Where now have all these things taken their flight? What has become of the body which enjoyed so much attention, and cleanliness.
...Go thy way to the COFFIN, behold the dust, the ashes, the WORMS, behold the loathsomeness of the place, and groan bitterly.

"And would that the penalty were limited to the ashes! but now transfer thy thought from the coffin and these WORMS to that UNDYING worm, to the FIRE UNQUENCHABLE, to the GNASHING of TEETH, to the outer darkness, to affliction and straitness, to the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, who although the owner of so much wealth, and CLOTHED IN PURPLE could not become the owner of even a DROP of water; and this when he was placed in a condition of such great necessity.

Of the king of Babylon who is defined as a TYPE of LUCIFER, the harp- playing prostitute, Isaiah wrote:

"Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. Isa 14:9
....All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? Isa 14:10

"All your POMP has been brought down to the grave, along with the NOISE of your HARPS; MAGGOTS are spread out beneath you and WORMS cover you. Is.14:11
....How art thou FALLEN from HEAVEN, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Isa 14:12

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ASCEND into HEAVEN, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: Isa 14:13
...I will ASCEND above the heights of the clouds; I will be LIKE the most High. Isa 14:14
.....Yet thou shalt be brought down to HELL, to the sides of the PIT. Isa 14:15

MODERN Musical Worship Teams claim the power to LEAD YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD. This is the LUCIFER PRINCIPLE for which there is NO REDEMPTION. And the Bible and church scholarship knows of NO OTHER VIEW.

Ken Sublett

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: In the New Testament "psallo" means to make music in praise or to sing praise to God and is translated make music. The word "psalmos" means song and is translated psalm referring almost certainly to the Old Testament Psalms. These words may imply singing with instrumental accompaniment but do not demand it.
=====================================================================

Only the NIV uses the word MUSIC here. And it does not translate psallo as MAKE MUSIC elsewhere. The word is MAKE MELODY and its roots speak of GRINDING THE ENEMY INTO A FINE POWDER WITH PANIC MUSIC. It derives from the TWANGING sound of yanking out the hair of an enemy. A similar word SOP speaks of the SIGN Jesus gave to Judas to make him flee: the Judas bag was "for carrying the mouth pieces of wind instruments." It was always associated with the homosexual worshipers of Dionysus.

The first Anrdt-Gingrich mistranslated Psallo. Later, when asked it turned out to be his PERSONAL PREFERENCE. I have posted some more of this RESOURCE HERE:

http://www.piney.com/MuArndt.html

When the new edition did not make the changes, Gingrich "thought that the comment makes valuable contributory information and he prefers to leave this expression." (Hugo McCord quoted by Bales, p. 115).

--"In other words, Gingrich admitted that the harp no more inheres in psallo than it does in the English word sing. Furthermore, the phrase, which was in parenthesis, was not included in their translation of psallo in James 5:13)

--"Gingrich told J. W. Roberts in a conversation in St. Louis that the insertion was his private opinion. McCord announced that the change would be made but it was not." (Bales, p. 115)

We have made a table of the PSALMS. They include calling down God's judgment, processions (condemned), new moons, vengeance, arousal or awakening the HARP, fear of being cast off, historical warnings and prophetic. Most of the Psalms are noted without instruments: the rest have no place in Christian worship.

Because they are a POETIC version of the PROSE history, most express historical fact. None are COMMANDS to be used in SPIRITUAL worship.

--"Some of the psalms express a tribalistic hatred of foreign powers; even the beautiful laments of the exiles 'by the waters of Babylon,' for example, concludes with the assurance that the daughter of Babylon will be destroyed. 'Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth the little ones against the stones.'

----"But in nearly a third of the collection the 'enemies' whose death the psalmist so confidently prays for and anticipates are not Gentile nations,

------"but individual Jews who do not share the religious conviction of the Hasidim (Pharisees). In the words of Psalm 58, 'the righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. So that a man shall say, Verily there is reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth." (Parkes, Henry Bamford, Gods and Men The Origins of Western Culture, p. 134, Knopf)

Herodotus shows the effeminate connecton and separates harp-playing and singing. It was requested of Cyrus that rather than destroy the enemy, just make them into women:

"Grant, then, forgiveness to the Lydians, and to make sure of their never rebelling against thee, or alarming thee more, send and forbid them to keep any weapons of war, command them to wear tunics under their cloaks, and to put buskins upon their legs,

--"and make them bring up their sons to cithern-playing (Kitharizein), singing (psallein), and huckstering

--"So wilt thou soon see them become women instead of men,

--"and there will be no more fear of their revolting from thee."

The only MUSIC word used in the New Testament is SUMPHONIA. It speaks of a home coming party which included singing, dancing, playing instruments, drinking wine and more. The MUSICIANS in Revelation 18 were APOLLO'S (Abaddon or Apollyon) MUSES. They had been turned into LOCUSTS or GRASSHOPPERS. In the Book of Revelation the LOCUSTS (musical performers) are turned loose to MARK those who do not have the MARK of the Word in their thinking and actions.

STRABO WROTE of the universal Greek meaning of MUSIC:

--and, fourthly, music, which includes dancing as well as rhythm and melody, at the same time,

--by the delight it affords and by its artistic beauty, brings us in touch with the divine,

--and this for the following reason; for although it has been well said that

--human beings then act most like the gods when they are doing good to others,

----yet one might better say, when they are happy; and such happiness consists of rejoicing, celebrating festivals, pursuing philosophy, and engaging in music.

See that FARMERS is just making up their own EVIDENCE:

http://www.piney.com/MuStrabo.html

THERE IS NO MUSIC WORD USED OF SPIRITUAL WORSHIP OF GOD: MUSICAL WORSHIP IS ALWAYS ASSOCIATED WITH REPUDIATING THE WORDS OF GOD. AND SO WE HAVE SILLY "PRAISE SONGS" TO REPLACE LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Kenneth Sublett

Farmer's Branch: The mention of these words would undoubtedly conjure up thoughts of musical instruments in the recipients of Paul's first century letter to the Ephesians.

------Therefore, the first century Christians (writers and readers alike) would almost certainly

-----have had no problem with singing to instrumental accompaniment based on Biblical words and their usage.

===================================================
WE HAVE NOTED THAT EVERY NAME OF A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT OR A MUSICAL TERM SPEAKS OF "GRINDING THE ENEMY TO DEATH," TO REJECTING THE WORDS OF GOD OR SEXUALITY. THE SAME WORD CAN BE TRANSLATED AS "PLAY THE FLUTE, POLLUTE OR PROSTITUTE." THE DEVIL OR LUCIFER IS GIVEN CREDIT IN THE BIBLE FOR BRINGING CHOIRS, INSTRUMENTS AND PERVERTED SEXUALITY TO THE "YOUTH." MODERN SCHOLARS WILL PLAINLY TELL YOU: "THERE IS NO OTHER TRADITION."

The Jews understood that INSTRUMENTS were for making noise and not true music. As soon as the temple was destroyed it became UNLAWFUL for them to use instruments. It was not until 1815 until a LIBERAL Rabbi added an organ. However, he had to hire a non-Jewish organist because it was UNLAWFUL to play instruments on the Sabbath.

http://www.piney.com/Synagogue1.html

We have collected all of the historical writers we can find and NO ONE ever even dared think about using instruments in THE SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. We have posted a review of these ANTI-MUSIC writers and many denominations:

Arnobius, Basil the Great (c. 329-379), Boethius, Calvin, John, Campbell, Alexander, Chrysostom, Clement of Alexandria, Cotton Mather, Cyprian, Dabney, Edersheim, Erasmus, Gaudentius, Girardeau, John, Green, William, Gregory of Nazianzus(c. 330-c. 390), Guess, Jack, Baptist, Hippolytus, Irenaeus, ISLAM, Josephus, Justin Martyr, Kerr, Martin Luther, McGarvey, J. W.,

As late as the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia insists that music was borrowed from PAGAN CULTS and insisted that the Biblical pattern is CONGREGATIONAL SINGING. You can find a chronological list here---

http://www.piney.com/MUIndex.html

=======================================================
Roman Religious Toleration: The Senatus Consultum de Bacchanalibus, 186 A.D.

http://www.piney.com/HistLivydeBacc.html

"When any person was introduced he was delivered as a VICTIM to the PRIESTS, who led him away to a place
------resounding with shouts, the sound of music, and the beating of cymbals and drums,
-----lest his cries, while suffering violation, should be heard abroad."

STRAIGHT males normally did not get involved therefore the Jews tried to pervert Jesus much earlier:

"First, then, a great part of them are women, and this was the source of the evil; the rest are males, but nearly RESEMBLING women;

--ACTORS and pathics in the vilest lewdness; night revelers, driven frantic by wine, NOISES of INSTRUMENTS, and clamors.

"The conspiracy, as yet, has no strength; but it has abundant means of acquiring strength, for they are becoming more numerous every day.

"But the mischief were less, if they were only effeminated by their practices; of that the disgrace would chiefly affect themselves;

"if they refrained their hands from outrage, and their thoughts from fraud.
========================================

AD 250: Of the Apostolic Constitutions: The first six books are an adaptation of the Didascalia Apostolorum, written in Syria about AD 250. Long before there was an organization named "The Catholic Church" the church was recognized to be part of the universal whole wherever it existed.

"But this peace and haven of tranquility is the Church of Christ..

If one belonging to the theatre

(1) come, whether it be man or woman, or charioteer, or dueller, or racer, or player of prizes, or Olympic gamester, or one that plays on the pipe, on the lute, or on the harp at those games, or a dancing-master or an huckster,

(2) either let them leave off their employments, or let them be rejected. If a soldier come, let him be taught to "do no injustice, to accuse no man falsely, and to be content with his allotted wages:"

(3) if he submit to those rules, let him be received; but if he refuse them, let him be rejected.

He that is guilty of sins not to be named, a sodomite, an effeminate person, a magician, an enchanter, an astrologer, a diviner, an user of magic verses, a juggler, a mountebank, one that makes amulets, a charmer, a soothsayer, a fortune-teller, an observer of palmistry; he that, when he meets you, observes defects in the eyes or feet of the birds or cats, or noises, or symbolical sounds:

=================================
Jerome in about 400

Letter LIV. To Furia. Jerome advises a widow on preserving her widowhood. Living in Rome was dangerous and Jerome warns her. Her sister may have taken vows in Bethlehem. He writes

"You have wealth and can easily therefore supply food to those who want it. Let virtue consume what was provided for self-indulgence; one who means to despise matrimony need fear no degree of want. Have about you troops of virgins whom you may lead into the king's chamber. Support widows that you may mingle them as a kind of violets with the virgins' lilies and the martyrs' roses."

13. Avoid the company of young men.

Let long baited youths dandified and wanton never be seen under your roof.

Repel a SINGERS as you would some bane.

Hurry from your house women who live by PLAYING and SINGING,

the devil's CHOIR whose songs are the fatal ones of sirens.
==============================================

Farmer's Branch is just flat wrong: the Jews ceased instruments because they knew that they MADE NOISE only for the sacrificial system and IN JERUSALEM. This was mocking a TYPE of Lord Jesus Christ prophesied to be mocked musically (Psalm 41). JEWS "CHRISTIANIZED" in AD 1815 in a liberal synagogue in GERMANY.

The Gentiles understood MUSIC AS WORSHIP to be symptomatic of the perverted pagan temples. This is why Paul warned the Romans, Ephesians and Colossians.

Paul warns against LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS (Carnal weapons) but there is no explicit statement that any Biblical church used instruments. Nor is there any hint in the early church. This must PROVE that everyone knew that there was NO ROLE for music in the church as synagogue or school of the Bible. The early church was never a RITUALISTIC (LEGALISTIC) WORSHIP ASSOCIATION.

AS SOON AS we have recorded history such as from Justin Martyr we see the church obeying Paul's DIRECT COMMAND to TEACH the inspired Word rather than engage in EXTERNAL MELODY which was always DESTRUCTIVE and PERVERTING.

FARMER'S BRANCH CANNOT FIND A SINGLE INSTANCE OUT OF HERETICAL GROUPS OF THE USE OF MUSIC UNTIL ABOUT AD 1250. THEN THE INSTRUMENT WAS USED BY PROFESSIONAL COMPOSERS. INSTRUMENTS STILL COULD NOT BE USED IN THE SISTINE CHAPEL AS RECORDED IN THE 1911 CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA. To compensate and add the ORGANUM equivalent, the Pope in returning from "Babylonian Captivity" in France brought CASTRATED musical praise teams with him. Priests and SINGERS always had a symbiotic relationship!

Kenneth Sublett

Farmer's Branch: The leadership does not see this position standing in conflict with the Scriptures.

----What IS in CONFLICT with them is that, for the sake of maintaining a TRADITION,

FBCC quite possibly has put itself further out of touch with those whom it desires to TOUCH the most, the unchurched of our culture.

----There can be no question that this was and is the top priority of Jesus, nor is there any question that He was constantly in conflict with the traditions of His day.
=============================================================
JESUS SAID "GO PREACH" AND NOT "STAY AND TOUCH."

IT IS A FACT: THE MUSICAL PASSAGES IN THE OLD TESTAMENT ARE IN 6 PLACES TO PROVE "I WILL NOT LISTEN TO GOD'S WORD." IN SEVERAL CASES "MUSIC" IS THE MARK OF THOSE WHO LOOKED TO GOD AND TO EZEKIEL AS SEXUAL PARTNERS. This is a PROCLAMATION that the gospel IS NO LONGER EFFECTIVE and that "Evangelists are NOT going ANYWHERE."

What Farmer's Branch is saying is that

----NOT using instruments is maintaining a TRADITION and
----Maintaining the TRADITION of NOT using instruments is IN CONFLICT WITH SCRIPTURES
----Not using instruments may put the church OUT OF TOUCH with the unchurched
----Therefore we have to ABANDON a TRADITION in order to make the GOSPEL GO.

But the BIG SCAM is that "the non-instrumental churches of Christ INVENTED the tradition of NOT using instruments most likely JUST TO SOW DISCORD." That is not far fetched, a friend who objected to instruments in SEATTLE was held up to the blacks as being A RACIST. Rubel Shelly equates the non-instrumentalists to FIRE BOMBERS.

This is so outrageous as to prove anyone who preaches it as terminally ignorant or terminally evil.

Farmer's Branch CONCLUSION seems to be that Jesus was IN CONFLICT with the tradition.
----The only tradition which could possibly fit the argument is that Jesus would
------VIOLATE the TRADITION by NOT using INSTRUMENTS in the Temple
------Jesus violated the clergy tradition implied in his statement that John Did not wear SOFT clothing
------AND He would not SING and DANCE while they PIPED "like children in the marketplace."

The CIVIL SECTARIANS of the Sadducees was the ONLY MUSICAL SECTARIANS in their temple Tradition

Judas whose JUDAS BAG was "for carrying the mouthpieces or 'tongues' of reed instruments" conspired
----with the TEMPLE CLERGY to to murder Jesus.
----The Greek record of the JUDAS BAG is of the homosexual worshipers of Dionysus.
----The Jews HOPED that Jesus was the HOMOSEXUAL messiah rather than the SPIRITUAL Messiah.
----They were the ONLY ONES who were conspiring to murder Jesus.

Stephen compared the clergy to the MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai where the Israelites were

-----Turned over to worship the STARRY HOST.
-----Stephen quoted Amos to prove that their musical rejoicing was part of IDOLATRY.
-----Both Israel and Judah worshiped Molech and Chiun who is Saturn whose number is 666.

Stephen told the MEGA-CHURCH builders that God permitted the temple (at a Jebusite high place) only as a CONCESSION to David and David was TOO FEARFUL of God to ever return to the Tabernacle at Gibeon. Therefore, David moved the Ark to the Jebusite High Place and built his OWN NEW TABERNACLE. But, Stephen told them the BIG SECRET: God does not live in temples or church buildings. The KINGS were not spiritual leaders: God permitted them to carry out the sentence of captivity and death imposed because of the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. He taught what Jesus taught: God is not worshiped in temples built by HUMAN hands. Jesus said that worship is only in the SPIRIT OR MIND which is the TEMPLE God made.

The MUSICAL CROWD murdered Stephen for badmouthing the TEMPLE and its TRADITIONS which depended totally on the LOUD NOISE (never called music) to pay for their own sins by killing thousands of TYPES of Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus was murdered in part because His refusal to engage in the perverted SONG and DANCE to Dionysus meant that He was NOT the kind of Messiah they wanted.

Jesus VIOLATED the TRADITION of the Babylonian Passover which demanded drunkenness and instituted the Lord's Supper but DID NOT participate.

Jesus violated the WATER DRAWING ritual with LOUD FLUTES by insisting that HE was the source of Living Waters and therefore the ANSWER to their PRAYER that Messiah would come. They killed Him and kept on fluting.

Jesus violated the TRADITIONS of worship in TIME and PLACE by letting the sinful Samaritan woman know that she DIDN'T have to worship in the PLACE of Gerezim: henceforth the ONLY place the woman could worship was in her OWN SPIRIT giving heed to the Spirit of Truth.

Jesus VIOLATED the TRADITION of having a Musical Worship Team perform the magical rituals when the young girl was to be resurrected. He CAST THEM OUT more or less violently using a word which means LIKE DUNG. Maybe He did that because the clergy accused Him of being Beel-zebub which, in Hebrew, meant the DUNG GOD.

Jesus as Spirit used John to condemn the end-time Babylon Whore religion as a blend of commerce, false religion and MUSIC. As the king of Tyre, Lucifer used MUSIC as the "harp playing prostitute" to steal the money of honest people: something like TITHING or "The Law of Giving" or selling church bonds.

Jesus VIOLATED THE TRADITION of the "Lord, Lord sayers" who, like the MUSICAL MOURNING TEAM could CAST OUT DEMONS. Except for true PROPHETS or those READING the inspired Word, "prophesiers" were "musical performers."

"The nature of prophecy is twofold:
----either inspired (by visions or revelatory auditions),
----or acquired (by learning certain techniques). In many cases both aspects are present.
"The goal of learning certain prophetic techniques is
----to reach an ecstatic state in which revelations can be received.
----That state might be reached through the use of MUSIC, dancing, drums, violent bodily movement, and self-laceration.

This "prophecy" was much like SPEAKING IN TONGUES. Jesus VIOLATED THE TRADITIONS of the Dionysus "prophesiers" left over from the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION in the Jerusalem Temple where Zeus and Dionysus were worshiped MUSICALLY which always meant SEXUALLY or PERVERTED.

The SERPENT in the garden of Eden is the Hebrew NACHASH. He/she is a MUSICAL ENCHANTER and named after perhaps the Cobra or Phython who made a "hissing" or "whispering" sound much like an instrument made out of "ringing bell metal" or bronze. This MUSICAL ENCHANTER had his/her own seed of vipers just as Cain was "of that evil one" and Judas was IN DWELLED by Satan. Delphi was the "worship center" of Apollo who is the Abaddon of Apollyon of Revelation in his destructive persona. The MUSICIANS of Revelation 18 is derived from Apollo's MUSES. Remember also that Paul compared MUSICAL INSTRUMENT SOUNDS usually reserved for WARRIORS or SOOTHSAYERS to "speaking in tongues" and music has to be INTERPRETED. Therefore, music IS speaking in tongues:

--"In certain ancient Israelite prophetic groups, MUSIC was used to achieve the ecstatic state, in which the participants, in their accompanying dancing, were believed to have been seized by the hand of Yahweh, the God of Israel, as in the case of Saul, the 11th-century-BC king of Israel. [Jezebel's "prophesiers" were MUSICIANS.]

----The Pythia (priestess) of the Greek oracle at Delphi often went into an ecstatic state during which she uttered sounds revealed to her by the python (the snake,the symbol of resurrection), after drinking water from a certain spring.

----Her "words" were then interpreted by a priest to help a suppliant find a way to avoid calamities, especially death. In primitive religions, ECSTASY was a technique highly developed by SHAMANS, religious personages with healing and psychic-transformation powers, in their "soul," or "spirit," flights.

DELPHI WAS JUST UP THE COAST FROM CORINTH. IN 11:5 HE IS SPEAKING OF THE "UNCOVERED PROPHESYING" OF THE WOMEN JUST OUT OF PAGANISM. THE OTHER WAY TO TRULY PROPHESY IS TO "READ THE WORD AS IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN AND BE ABLE TO SAY 'THUS SAITH THE LORD'."

And the ONLY reason ANYONE uses "music" is to induce a state of CHARISMATIC ECSTASY among the youth alread brain-dead from constant "music." See the UNIVERSAL MESSAGE:

http://www.piney.com/MuDevils.html

PROFESSIONAL MUSICIANS including CCM ADMIT THAT YOU CANNOT MAKE IT BIG TIME UNLESS YOU SELL YOUR SOUL TO SATAN: THAT IS THE UNIVERSAL TRADITIONAL BELIEF. Why let them "stand in the holy place" claiming to be gods or mediators to "lead you into the presence of God."

Kenneth Sublett

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: "The Purpose Of This Consideration

"The purpose of this presentation is to set forth what the LEADERSHIP believes the LORD'S WILL to be for the Farmers Branch Church concerning vocal and INSTRUMENTAL MUSICAL expression.

============================================
LEADERSHIP MEANS, WE SUSPECT, THE PREACHER AND THE MUSICAL "WORSHIP" MINISTER!

It might come as some SURPRISE to the "leadership" that the word MUSIC is never used in the Bible in association with Spiritual worship. On the contrary, the LORD's WILL was to claim that SATAN or LUCIFER used "music" to seduce Adam and Eve and his CHANGE AGENTS were the king of Tyre (the harp-playing prostitute) and the king of Babylon whose harps and harpists would go with Him into Sheol to be taunted (clapped) by the great ones he had deceived.

--At that time Tyre will be forgotten for seventy years, the span of a king's life. But at the end of these seventy years, it will happen to Tyre as in the song of the prostitute: Is.23:15

----"Take up a harp, walk through the city, O prostitute forgotten; play the harp well, sing many a song, so that you will be remembered." Is.23:16

------At the end of seventy years, the LORD will deal with Tyre. She will return to her hire as a prostitute and will ply her trade with all the kingdoms on the face of the earth. Is.23:17

Other than for entertainment or WARFARE the MUSICAL terms always point to the MALE or FEMALE PROSTITUTES. The king of Tyre as a "harp playing prostitute" wanted to be REMEMBERED AS A MALE.

It might come as a surprise that the LORD inspired every "musical event" as a MARK stamped on those who told Amos and others: "We will not hear any more about God and His word."

It might also come as a surprise that the music they see in the Temple was actually called NOISE by the LORD who is "now" changing His Mind (mindS for the neo-Trinitarians) and inspiring Farmer's Branch. Because God granted a temple LIKE THE NATIONS when they FIRED HIM, the NOISE was called "hard bondage" and was to give aid to the priests as tens of thousands of animals were slain, dung was carried out, rivers of blood poured down into the valley of "hell" and the screams of dying animals made a HORRIBLE noise as a MARK to the Jews of the EVIL of refusing to listen to the RECORDED Word of God. They were fulfilling the CARNAL TYPE of the same MUSICAL MOCKING as they sacrificed Lord Jesus Christ because they identified Him as Beel-Zebub which the Hebrew identifies as the DUNG GOD.

THIS MAY BE WHY JESUS "CAST OUT" THE "MUSICAL MOURNING TEAM" MORE OR LESS VIOLENTLY USING A WORD WHICH MEANS AS YOU "CAST OUT DUNG."

Psalm 41 prophesies that JUDAS would not be successful in TRIUMPHING OVER Jesus. The Synagogue as the Hebrew QAHAL was, like the church, an assembly for INSTRUCTION which was the primary meaning of WORSHIP. Numbers 10:7 OUTLAWS the ALARM or TRIUMPH when the Assembly was called ONLY for instructions.

-------------------------------------------------

-----Ruwa (h7321) roo-ah'; a prim. root; to mar (espec. by breaking); fig. to split the ears (with sound), i. e. shout (for alarm or joy): - blow an alarm, cry (alarm, aloud, out), destroy, make a JOYFUL NOISE, smart, SHOUT FOR JOY, sound an alarm, triumph.

ALL MUSICAL TERMS ARE CONNECTED TO "WARFARE" OR GRINDING THE ENEMY INTO A FINE POWDER. THEREFORE, THE NEXT HEBREW WORD IS:

-----Ruwph (h7322) roof; a prim. root; prop. to TRITURATE (in a mortar), i. e. (fig.) to AGITATE (by concussion): - tremble.

ALL WHICH CAN BE DEFINED AS "MUSIC" OR "PLAYING INSTRUMENTS" IN THE EXTERNAL SENSE IS CONNECTED WITH "CREATING PANIC, MELTING THE HEART OF PEOPLE LIKE JESUS, OR GRINDING THEM INTO A FINE POWDER AS JESUS HAND-FED JUDAS WITH THE SOP WHICH IS RELATED TO "PSALLO" Because the Judas Bag "carried the mouthpieces or 'tongues' of WIND INSTRUMENTS always connected to the FLUTE CASE of perverted Dionysus worshipers which PREVAILED in Jerusalem.

WHEN ISRAEL "ROSE UP TO PLAY" the word means to sing, dance, play instruments and more. This same WORD used of Samson meant that he "GROUND in the King's House which meant that he was USED and ABUSED just like all enemy warriors. An equivalent word for PLAY which is used of Samson is also applied to the PLAYING of David as he "MADE HIMSELF VILE." When David PLAYED the word is:

-----Sachaq (h7832) saw-khak'; a prim. root; to laugh (in pleasure or detraction); by impl. to play: - deride, have in derision, laugh, make merry, mock (-er), play, rejoice, (laugh to) scorn, be in (make) sport.

The next Hebrew word is:

-----Shachaq (h7833) shaw-khak'; a prim. root; to comminate (by TRITURATION or ATTRITION): - beat, WEAR.

The PLAY or MUSIC was to GRIND THE ENEMY down to prove your superiority. The TEAMS use and abuse the church and STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE actually taking the place of Lord Jesus Christ as the ONE MEDIATOR.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Paul SPECIFICALLY issued a DIRECT COMMAND that we TEACH or preach to one another by SPEAKING the inspired Psalms (only). He specifically put the MELODY in the heart rather than EXTERNAL which would OUTLAW the TEACHING LEARNING process ISSUED AS A DIRECT COMMAND without music FOR THE QAHAL OR "CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS."

The word Paul used is NOT a musical term: you can TWANG a bowstring to send a SINGING arrow into the REAL HEART of an enemy to TRITURATE HIM or "grind him into a fine powder." Or, you can make a "twanging note" as you YANK out the hair of an enemy or you can TRIUMPH OVER the customer as the HARP PLAYING PROSTITUTE.

-----PSALLO (g5567) psal'-lo; prob. strengthened from psao, (to RUB or touch the surface; comp. 5597); to TWITCH or twang, i.e. to play on a stringed instrument (celebrate the divine worship with music and accompanying odes): - make melody, sing (psalms)

Psallo is compared to PSOCHO:

-----Psocho (g5597) pso'-kho; prol. from the same base as 5567; to TRITURATE, i.e. (by anal.) to RUB out (kernels from husks with the fingers or hand): - rub.

This is the word SOP Jesus 'TRITURATED' as a MARK or SIGN to Judas.

-----Psomion (g5596) pso-mee'-on; dim. from a der. of the base of 5597; a crumb or morsel (as if RUBBED OFF), i.e. a mouthful: - SOP.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MUSIC IS THE UNIVERSAL MARK OF GRINDING PEOPLE INTO A FINE POWDER OR MELTING THEIR HEART BY AN INJECTION OF "MORPHINE-LIKE" ENDORPHINS. THEN "PSALLOING" THEIR HEAD OFF WITH A SWORD OR ARROW TO "TAKE THEIR INHERITANCE." FOR INSTANCE, HALAL MEANS "TO MAKE SELF VILE" AND Chalal IS TRANSLATED: "TAKE ONE'S INHERITANCE, PLAY THE FLUTE, POLLUTE OR PROSTITUTE."

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER IS MUSIC USED BY THE Old "Modern God" for spiritual worship. That is a product of declaring that the BIBLE is so SIFTED that the only thing left is the CORE GOSPEL. Then, God pours out His wrath by "sending BUFFOONS or stand up comics" to SEND STRONG DELUSION so that people are actually CONFIRMED or HARDENED in their lying about a Holy God.

Paul connected CARNAL WEAPONS or LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS to physicl warfare or the MAGICAL, PAGAN acts like soothsaying or necromancy. The Clanging and Booming were expressions RIGHT OUT OF the Oracles all around Corinth.

He also connected LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS with SPEAKING IN TONGUES or the "VOICE OF ANGELS." Instruments EXPRESS NOTHING: they are SPEAKING IN TONGUES. They are ADDED as MIND-CONTROL devices or "sugar to make the poison go down." Watch a 100 million dollar movie without the MUSIC.

God authorized the TWO SILVER TRUMPETS to signal assembly, travel, panic in battle and other CHURCH BELL LIKE purposes. God SPECIFICIALLY outlawed the BLOWING of an ALARM which included "making a joyful noise before the Lord." This was the common NATIONAL WAR CHANT and not "worship."

From Beginning to the end of the Bible (Rev 18) MUSICAL PERFORMANCE is the MARK of people who absolutely refuse to listen to God and have no trouble TWISTING God's clear Words into AUTHORITY to TRIUMPH OVER the local church of Christ because they see "godliness as a means of financial gain."

Kenneth Sublett

I have read a great deal on this and associated web sites. You make some errors in how you draw your conclusions. When a writer, regardless of their doctrinal or religious affiliation, agrees with you, then they are right. However, when they disagree they are wrong. If you cannot successfully attack the scholarship, you attack their character, so they are not credible because they are Nazis or communists. Even given all of this the point you are making is relatively mote.

If I attend a service where musical (mechanical) interments re used, it does not effect my personal salvation. I am a repentant immersed believer seeking to serve God under the guidance of my elders and ministers. If the use of musical instruments was essential to my salvation, then indeed salvation is by works and actions. Grant it, I need to seek to serve and worship God in the best and most pleasing way to God. Remember I am told to work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I am under the rule of liberty and grace. What happened to; “in non-essentials liberty” or “in matters of conscience liberty”? At most, if I choose to worship with interments, I may be a weak Christian. However, using the argument used by Paul, then I really should consider you the weaker brother, because I know that to the pure all things are pure. I am under grace.

It is your right to make it a test of fellowship, if done in love. I quite frankly agree with those who note a lack of love in the tone of the web sites and writings. There is a problem with tests of fellowship. They are the origins of creeds and denominations. Your make your tests of fellowship your common denominators.

It appears that you do not believe in the local independent control of the local church. The local elders are no longer to be in charge of the teachings of each church, and held accountable by God. So, Congratulations, you seem to be succeeding as the guardians of doctrinal purity. You are successful in completing the [primary step in becoming a denomination known as “The Conservative Accaupela Church of Christ”. It must be comforting for so many to know that you are out here in cyberspace guarding the official doctrine.

I am sure there will be a nice long annotated response with all the right scriptural notations and quotes. Learn to let it go and trust G

I have read a great deal on this and associated web sites. You make some errors in how you draw your conclusions. When a writer, regardless of their doctrinal or religious affiliation, agrees with you, then they are right. However, when they disagree they are wrong. If you cannot successfully attack the scholarship, you attack their character, so they are not credible because they are Nazis or communists. Even given all of this the point you are making is relatively mote.

-------------

Isn't that the way it is? We all love those who agree with us. But you are dead wrong: that's why I disagree with you. MY point is that as far as I can determine the Old and New Testament, the Babylonian Tablets (I have a large collection posted) the Hebrew scholars who wrote their documents (sermons etc) throughout the Biblical period, the Classical and other Greek writers, the church Fathers and the founders of all denominations AGREE with me or I agree with them. To date, there is ZERO written material which supports the idea of INSTRUMENTAL music: If it existed I would have found it because good sites provide SEARCH ENGINES so that I can look up words like "instruments, music, song, etc) and find every thing any major writer said on the topic. The tablets associate instruments as the DEVICE given to womankind to create a feminist and always perverted religion (I know of no exception). That agrees with the Bible where the name of the SERPENT translates to a MUSICAL ENCHANTER and the king of Tyre is the personification of Lucifer who was IN THE GARDEN with her string, wind and percussion instruments. And the Babylon harlot of Revelation 18 carries the identical Lucifer message.

I equate people to Hegel because they boast about INFILTRATING AND DIVERTING so that you don't know that a Christian Church has stolen "the church house of widows." I quote Machiavelli because he is the "quoted" AUTHORITY for facilitating CHANGE and explaining why THOSE WITH THE LAW ON THEIR SIDES are slower to change. I quote Hitler because MEIN KAMPF shows how the INTELLECTUAL LEADERS must use the emotional and ignorant as HUMAN MATERIAL. These methods fuel the writings of those instructing infiltrators how to STEAL and change to an UNSCRIPTURAL worship: such as MUSIC. Anyone, including a non-instrumentalists, who would lie, cheat and steal an instrumental church has the SPIRIT of Hitler and not Lord Jesus Christ.

They tell you that the Bible has been 'sifted through philosophy' and the "Bible writer's own personal agenda" which gives them the right to convert the MUSICAL IDOLATRY TERMINAL FALL at Mount Sinai into a "pattern for Christian worship and communigy (commune)." They then write books and preach sermons based on their Baptist Blackaby's permission to be the MOSES or CHRIST for your age. They say that truth and the CHRISTENDOM ERA ceased in the last century and they have NEW GLASSES and are having a NEW VISION for the church of Christ. I say that they are LIARS. What would you call those who take every MUSICAL STATEMENT in the bible and make it into PROOF TEXTS for a musical SABBATH WORSHIP when EVER musical term and name of instrument speaks of Satan, destruction, pollution, prostitution or worse? The last article shows that for EVERY musical term there are ROOTS which connect to GRINDING ONE INTO BITS. Modern science and musicologists know that: music creates a DRUG HIGH. I know of no evidence to refute that so I don't post it.

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If I attend a service where musical (mechanical) interments re used, it does not effect my personal salvation. I am a repentant immersed believer seeking to serve God under the guidance of my elders and ministers. If the use of musical instruments was essential to my salvation, then indeed salvation is by works and actions.

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You have just HAD A REVELATION: Musical performance is the most WORKS INTENSIVE thing you could invent (contrary to all of the evidence) and call it worship. ALL of the evidence points to the superstitious belief that MUSIC was the work of humans to AID the gods so that they did not fail or even turn on you.

Strabo Geography 10.3.16 from Aristotle Poetics:

http://www.piney.com/MuAristPoetics.html

Of the rites of Dionysus condemned by Paul in First Corinthians where the Classics often speak of music as "clanging and sounding"

"And he mentions immediately afterwards the attendants of Dionysus: one, holding in his hands the bombyces, toilsome WORK of the turner's chisel, fills full the fingered melody, the call that brings on frenzy, while another causes to resound the bronze-bound cotylae.

"and again, stringed instruments raise their shrill cry, and frightful mimickers from some place unseen bellow like bulls, and the semblance of drums, as of subterranean thunder, rolls along, a terrifying sound.

Both in Hebrew and Greek MELODY speaks of the HARD WORK of the miller grinding grain into a fine powder, a warrior TWANGING a bowstring to send an ARROW to break up your literal heart.

There is no MUSICAL term used in the Bible involved in SPIRITUAL worship. On the contrary I can point you to many which show that MUSIC is the mark of those who have rejected the Word of God. I don't tell people what they can or cannot do. In fact, what we call CHURCH has deteriorated into the end time CIRCE of myth which John spoke about and NOT a synagogue or school of the Bible.

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Grant it, I need to seek to serve and worship God in the best and most pleasing way to God. Remember I am told to work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I am under the rule of liberty and grace. What happened to; "in non-essentials liberty" or "in matters of conscience liberty"? At most, if I choose to worship with interments, I may be a weak Christian. However, using the argument used by Paul, then I really should consider you the weaker brother, because I know that to the pure all things are pure. I am under grace.

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No. The VEGETARIANS Rome were the Orphics. The Meat-eaters, wine-drinkers were the DIONYSICS. Both are attributed with inventing and using instruments to get you into a HIGH so that the worship was called MADNESS (a term Paul applied to the Corinthians). Paul sets up the BACKGROUNDS which could make CHURCH impossible. Therefore, in chapter 15 Paul defined the Christian Synagogue or SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE as a way for diverse backgrounds to meet to fulfill the PURPOSE for the church: to make the will of God known. He asks them to submit like Christ, Glorify God WITH ONE VOICE and use THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN. This, as in the synagogue which began in the wilderness and never used music, would allow them to TEACH one another with the INSPIRED TEXT. The "blue" book is not inspired even with instruments. So, Paul actually OUTLAWS the old pagan musical WORSHIP as opposed to SCHOOL.

Jesus said that worship which God accepts is NOW not in the PLACE of houses. Rather, worship is IN THE SPIRIT. That does not mean with enthusiasm: it means that the human SPIRIT is the only place where God looks for me. The worship word even in the Old Testament was to GIVE HEED to God's Word. Paul said that if you want to find Jesus you have to go OUTSIDE THE CAMP or OUTSIDE THE CITY of the LIKE THE NATION'S HOUSE. I believe that there is a fundamental misunderstanding about the meaning of WORSHIP. You simply cannot GIVE HEED to the commanded BIBLICAL PSALMS OR "THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN" and GIVE HEED to the musicians and secular songs at the same time.

What you CANNOT DO and get away with it is to INFILTRATE a non instrumental church of Christ and steal it for the instrumental Christian church. Their birthdate began with taking over non instrumental churches and thereby driving them out.

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It is your right to make it a test of fellowship, if done in love. I quite frankly agree with those who note a lack of love in the tone of the web sites and writings. There is a problem with tests of fellowship. They are the origins of creeds and denominations. Your make your tests of fellowship your common denominators.

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Will you tolerate a non-instrumental group INFILTRATING AND DIVERTING using ancient methods? Will you invite me (I cant come) to come and TEACH THE BIBLICAL AND ALL OF THE HISTORICAL FACTS which repudiate MUSIC as a drug-injecting mind control device? Will you publish my notes which prove that MUSICAL WORSHIP was always pagan worship? Will you let me teach Sunday School against the MUSICAL position. No, I knew that you WOULD NOT. That means that you REFUSE TO FELLOWSHIP me. YOU fellowship me but on YOUR terms.

The church of Christ has always existed under that name and always repudiated instruments. When the RM was formed neither Methodists, Baptists or Presbyterians used instruments and Luther called the organ an ensign or MARK OF BAAL. Calvin repudiated music: everyone but the Catholic-influenced churches.

The LIBERALS with no authority FORCED instruments into non instrumental churches and took them to law to get control of the buildings.

All of humanity defines the INSTRUMENTAL group which ADDED something without authority as HERETICS and SOWERS OF DISCORD and SECTARIANS. The non-instrumental people are CONGREGATIONAL and don't have time nor inclination to ALSO AFFIRM the instrumentalist by attending their services. WE know that your FELLOWSHIP is LIMITED.

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It appears that you do not believe in the local independent control of the local church. The local elders are no longer to be in charge of the teachings of each church, and held accountable by God. So, Congratulations, you seem to be succeeding as the guardians of doctrinal purity. You are successful in completing the [primary step in becoming a denomination known as "The Conservative Accaupela Church of Christ". It must be comforting for so many to know that you are out here in cyberspace guarding the official doctrine.

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If you look closely you will find that almost 100% of my sermon or book reviews are against men on the PAYROLL of non-instrumental churches but INFILTRATING the instrumental view.

I don't have a church and can no longer attend ANY church: just destroys my nerves consistent with all historical and medical evidence about MUSIC with or without instruments. The finely-honed congregational singing without instruments is in fact more ANXIETY CREATING than an organ and psalm singing. The BURDEN Jesus died to remove was "spiritual anxiety created by religious ritual." That is why He did not prescribe any SINGING with or without instrments. The DIRECT COMMAND was to TEACH or PREACH to one another using "that which is written, the Spirit, or the Word of Christ." Both the singing (secular) and melody (highly destructive of the emotions) was placed by a DIRECT COMMAND of Paul as IN THE HEART.

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I am sure there will be a nice long annotated response with all the right scriptural notations and quotes. Learn to let it go and trust G

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Why not? You can take it. Tell me why my PROOF of the MUSICAL terms are a MISHANDLING of the Word. Can't let go. Faithfulness and discipleship to the WORDS of God is the MARK of my TRUST of God. I just don't trust the musicians to replace Lord Jesus and LEAD ME INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD.

Ken

I had hoped that someone could read the CLEAR passages about the FALL of Israel through music and grasp that in every instance a MUSICAL term or name of a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT has roots in Satan, grinding the enemy into a fine powder, warfare or prostitution. No, the temple singers NEVER entered into the TYPE OF THE CHURCH.

Rather than respond, the pro musical types define refuting FALSE TEACHING as a proof of a lack of love. Since they have the GIFT OF DISCERNMENT it may be time to look at the claim that the INSTRUMENTALISTS pervert every Scripture and claim a DIRECT INPUT FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT PERSON as their authority to REPUDIATE THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST Who inspired the entire Bible

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Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: The leadership believes that MUSIC lifted up in praise to God and His Son is an outpouring from the heart of a person FILLED with the HOLY SPIRIT.
----This offering can be vocal, instrumental or both together.
---This conclusion is the result of much prayer and considerable study of the Scriptures on this matter.
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Contradiction ALL KNOWN historical opinion until the FAMILY OF GOD was invented probably by H. Leo Boles and propagated by the Gospel Advocate in about 1942, THERE WAS LITTLE opinion that God existed as THREE SEPARATED gods with their own particular talent for their own dispensation. John Mark Hicks at Lipscomb gives "credit" to Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly in their INCARNATIONAL THEOLOGY for making this HERESY popular.

I KNOW DIRECTLY OF NO ONE OTHER THAN APOSTATE CHURCHES OF CHRIST WHO CUTS GOD UP LIKE A PECAN PIE.

The most popular "parable" down through church history is that God THINKS a thought, BREATHS out Spirit or wind through his lips as DOUBLE-EDGED SWORDS and expresses HIS WORD which accomplish his WILL. Only one crazy guy in history suggested that God is THREE SEPARATED BEINGS. Their friend suggests that Lucado, Shelly etc. may deny that Christ came FULLY IN THE FLESH. That would be the definition of ANTI-CHRIST.

http://www.piney.com/HSHicksLucadoShelly.html

God is PURE or HOLY SPIRIT in nature. Holy means WHOLLY Spirit without human-like body parts. "Holy" is not a first name. The Spirit in the Bible is the Spirit OF Christ or the Spirit OF God but not a THIRD PERSON. Paul draws up an equation in 1 Cor. 2:

---->The Holy Spirit IS TO GOD
---->What our spirit is to us.
---->The Holy Spirit is the MIND OF CHRIST.
---->Christ is the eternal WORD--the DISCOURSE of God--not the MUSICIAN.

We are body, soul and spirit but we are not TRIPLETS and neither is God.

The FALSE CLAIM that one has ONE THIRD OF GOD literally dwelling in their CARNAL body is PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE. If they can convince you that the LEADERSHIP is HEARING the voice of the Spirit then they DISCOURAGE you from questioning the holy anointed beings. Rubel Shelly as facilitator of this heresy says that we SHOULD HEAR THE VOICE AUDIBLY.

Spirit was usually PERSONIFIED.

SPIRIT means the mental disposition of a BEING in both Hebrew and Greek. In the ancient world everything had a "spirit." The spirit OF anger, the UNholy spirit of a young man, a SWEET spirit and etc. Only in the sense of a GHOST or DEMON of the dead did they every personify SPIRIT. Shelly identifies the Spirit as a GHOST by identifying him with the German GEIST as in Poltegeist.
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THE SPIRIT TO BE USED IN TEACHING (AS SINGING) IS THE WORDS OF CHRIST JESUS.

Take a look at three SINGING passages to see that Paul DOES NOT speak about music but about TEACHING with the revealed Words of Christ. If the leaders are HEARING from the spirit it is not a HOLY SPIRIT but the spirit which motivated all paganism where MUSIC was used and the worshipers were ABUSED in more ways than one.

First look at Ephesians:

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be FILLED with the SPIRIT;
--Eph 5:19 Speaking (PREACHING) to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody IN YOUR HEART to the Lord;
----Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
------Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the FEAR OF GOD (one of the SEVEN spirits of God).

Jesus said that worship was ONLY in the human Spirit as it gives attention to the SPIRIT of TRUTH, the Words of Christ.

The same Paul wrote to the Colossians and said that to be FILLED with the SPIRIT is to be FILLED with the WORD OF CHRIST:

----Col 3:16 Let the WORD OF CHRIST dwell in you richly in all wisdom; TEACHING and ADMONISHING one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace IN YOUR HEARTS to the Lord.

The same Paul wrote to the Romans to say that they were COMPETENT to teach one another and that the RESOURCE for teaching can only be THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN:

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were WRITTEN AFORETIME were written for our LEARNING (teaching), that we through patience and comfort of the SCRIPTURES might have hope.
--Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another ACCORDING to CHRIST Jesus:
----Romans 15:6 That ye may with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH GLORIFY God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peter said that THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN was by the SPIRIT OF CHRIST.

--1 PETER 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the SPIRIT of CHRIST which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

John said the same thing:

---Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the TESTIMONY of JESUS: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT of PROPHECY.

That is because Jesus Christ said:

---John 6:63 It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE.

The MENORAH or seven CANDLESTICKS represents the SPIRIT or the presence of Christ and His Word in each church. This SPIRIT is the spirit OF some form of KNOWLEDGE which dwells in the human SPIRIT.

--Isa 11:1 AND there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a BRANCH shall grow out of his roots:
----Isa 11:2 And the spirit OF the Lord shall REST upon him, the spirit OF WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING, the spirit of COUNSEL and MIGHT, the spirit of KNOWLEDGE and of the FEAR of the Lord;
------Isa 11:3 And shall make him of QUICK UNDERSTANDING (spiritual) in the fear of the Lord: and he shall NOT judge after the SIGHT of his eyes, neither reprove after the HEARING of his EARS:

Of the Lord, Lord Sayers who were "prophesying" which means "making music and going charismatic" Jesus says I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOUR NAME because "spiritual" worship is in the Most Holy Place of the human spirit where God as Spirit accepts our worship in DARKNESS and SILENCE.

DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE SAYING ANYTHING IF THEY CLAIM THE AFRICAN "LITTLE MAN (SPIRIT) LIVES IN THE BIG MAN (ME)" HERESY. THESE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE "SPIRIT" OR "MENTAL DISPOSITION" OF LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO "CAST OUT THE MUSICAL TEAM" MORE OR LESS VIOLENTLY LIKE "DUNG."

See how SPIRIT is personified in the Bible:

http://www.piney.com/HsPersonif.html

http://www.piney.com/HsPersonif2.html

You have a deep problem if you believe that it is UNLOVING to warn you about people who claim to be equal with Jesus Christ by having the SPIRIT dwell in them to instruct them. This repudiates Lord Jesus Christ of whom "the Spirit without measure" meant that He spoke the "WORDS OF GOD" without changing them.

NONE of these people should be able to BLUFF you by claiming that THEIR decisions are the DECISIONS of the Spirit (of Christ) or that THEIR silly praise songs are the result of a HOLY Spirit. It is not TRUTH and my job is to help free you from "BEING A WATCHTOWER SLAVE."

I know when I say this that "when you free people from oppressors they will never forgive you." I fear that the only LOVING thing would be to agree with everyone but THAT would not be the LOVE Jesus poured out often in REBUTTAL and got Himself killed.

History knows NO EXCEPTION to the rule that Satan taught the youth to MAKE MUSIC as a way to seduce them into a life which REJECTED God by rejecting His Words. It NEEDS NO PROVING that singing silly praise songs fabricated out of Voodoo is REJECTING the "Songs" of Lord Jesus Christ.

I await any PROOF that singing with instrumental accompaniment was ever used in the spiritual worship of God AT ANY TIME in the Bible. Until then, ALL of recorded history associates MUSIC as CARNAL manipulation which can have NO connection with worship IN THE HUMAN SPIRIT IN SILENCE AND DARKNESS.

I also await ANY PROOF that INSTRUMENTS were ever used and not ASSOCIATED with telling (or having told) God: "We will not listen to YOUR words."

Until then I stand aquitted of SELECTIVE proof texting or trying to POLICE the church.

Kenneth Sublett

I have actually visited Farmer's Branch services (the non-instrumental services) the past month. Never before have I been to a place more full of love and filled with worship.

And the body there is growing!! Not just attritution as church members move from congregation to congregation, but baptizing people who don't know God. God is at work in that church and adding to the number those who are being saved.

I appreciate some of the insight on this website. I haev seen others like this one. However, I have never seen a group of more ineffective ramblings, that claim to be arguments. Most of the posts were so disorganized and confusing (what is up with that crazy font!) that I had a migraine just trying to ascertain what point was intended.

I have been going thru this site and frankly see more bitterness than what it is that a Christian should be known by - love.

Who is this person that set himself up as an 'authority'??

Why would one consider his views over those that actually are within the congregation? At best, his 'information' is second hand - gossip is the word that I would use.

When the Word was spoken the first time Jesus told the Apostles that parables had revealed truth "from the foundation of the world." He said that TRUTH does not belong in the hands specificially of the SACRIFICIAL AND MUSICAL temple staff. Let's see if you can grasp the difference between HUMAN UNTRUTH and what Scripture says. Isaiah 48 shows that God did not intend for the TRUTH to get into the hands of the TRUTH SELLERS.

CREDO:

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: "The leadership believes that music lifted up in praise to God and His Son is an outpouring from the heart of a person filled with the Holy Spirit.

This offering can be vocal, instrumental or both together.

This conclusion is the result of much prayer and considerable study of the Scriptures on this matter.
====================

Jesus said that the SPIRIT and LIFE was in HIS words which He never delivered musically because He was prophesied to be assaulted by MUSICIANS and crucified.

The concept of a separated HOLY SPIRIT which informs Farmers Branch repudiates the views of all of history including trinitarians. The Restoration Movement was consistent in gagging at the idea of THREE PERSONS. The new HERESY has been popularized by Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly.

Too bad that they don't know that the Levitical "musicians" helped the Priests survive the blood and dung while sacrificing TYPES of Jesus Christ. Isn't it interesting that when the MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM tried to AID Jesus in doing His Spiritual work, He cast them out more or less violently as one casts out dung. It's true

Jesus never said "I will build my church." He said, "I will build my ekklesia or synagogue." Now the synagogue or "church in the wilderness" was for the instruction of the people. The triumph over was outlawed: It was "playing instruments and making a joyful noise before the Lord." It was not worship but the Warriors Panic song. The Farmer's branch produces panic in the "audience" and may even contribute to premature birth if science is true.

The people's "congregation" was quarantined from the temple where the musical "hard bongage" sacrificed tens of thousands of animals. The warrior Levites "made noise but not music." No singer or player could ever enter into the Holy Place as a carnal type of the church or body of Christ without being executed: even to clean out the garbage.

It was prophesied and fulfilled that Judas and the same warrior musicians would do the same thing to Jesus. But Jesus did not stay SLAIN but entered into Heaven itself as the Most Holy Place to offer His blood. The Holy Place typified the church or SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE while the Most Holy Place typified the THRONE ROOM. Jesus said that worship can ONLY happen in the PLACE of the human SPIRIT or mind. And Paul said that rather than EXTERNAL, CEREMONIAL worship, the circumcised Jews worshiped God IN THE SPIRIT. The Spirit is opposed to the Flesh. IN SPIRIT does not mean enraptured or "standing outside of self."

Romans 15 defines a NON DIVISIVE assembly as one which "glorifies God with one voice" and teaching "that which has been written." Of course, that was written by Christ the Spirit. Romans 10 defines the MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai where they rose up to PLAY. This musical idolatry just after the Covenant of Grace was such a horrible offense that God, then and there according to Stephen, sentenced the nation to captivity and death and the WORSHIP OF THE STARRY HOST. That included the MUSICAL IDOLATRY condemned by Amos 5, 6 and Isaiah 5. Chiun was Saturn whose Chaldee number is 666.

Therefore, it is no surprise that Romans 14 defines a DISCORDED ASSEMBLY where three groups had a charismatic (musical) background. Paul then prescribed a SYNAGOGUE OF CHRIST. Because Christ died to remove the DOCTORS OF THE LAW as the BURDEN LADERS there could be no "spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals." His REST was relief from religious rituals which ignorance imposes on people by PROFESSIONAL Doctors of the Law whom Jesus fired and Paul deprived of a WAGE.

--"WE then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to PLEASE ourselves. Rom 15:1

PLEASE IS: Aresko (g700) ar-es'-ko; prob. from 142 (through the idea of EXCITING EMOTIONS)

Were your EMOTIONS EXCITED? Seems so much that SCRIPTURE has little meaning. That TAKES AWAY that for which Christ died. Did it attract lots of people? Ancient paganism as the ONLY place for musical rituals could show you how to double your attendance within a month. Christianity rests on a SCANDAL and "Christians" will be despised and rejected of men. Were your's applauded?

-----AIRO (g142) ah'ee-ro; a prim. verb; to LIFT; by impl. to take up or AWAY; fig. to RAISE THE VOICE, KEEP IN SUSPENSE the MIND

Did anyone RAISE THEIR VOICE? Jesus didn't. He stood up to read the Bible and then had the uncommon decency to sit down and DIALOG. The word is not PREACH but discuss. There is no role for PREACHERS in a faithful church of Christ: only evangelists. Did you help them BUY theirs. Did you get to be part of the BODY? Thought not.

Did the MUSICIANS (temple sacrificial music) raise their VOICES and their HANDS? Sure. They know that if they are going to MAKE THE CHURCH GROW they are going to have to give you a DRUG HIGH with music. Did they make you FEEL spiritual? Sure, but it is a SCAM. They are mainlining endorphins or natural morphine to give you a DRUG HIGH. Feel good? Did the feeling last. No. They damaged many who went out Monday with a drug hangover. Some evidence indicates that drugs created by the EXCITEMENT and high decivel level and complex harmony can send women to the hospital for a premature birth. Do they care? No. More "audience" means more money.

Jesus came to give REST which is the opposite of what we too often see as worship but it rarely gives us real satisfaction. The laded burden which fits Paul's idea and which Jesus died to remove is the Greek:

Phortizo (g5412) for-tid'-zo; from 5414; to LOAD up.. figurative to OVERBURDEN with CEREMONIAL or SPIRITUAL ANXIETY.

That repudiates Lord Jesus Christ Who himself was AFFLICTED with Warriors Making 'music.'

The Sabath was not a day of worship but of REST. Most pagan religions held their 'worship' on the Sabbath which began in Babylon so that THE GOD'S AGENTS could rest while the congregation paid the Bill. The Lord's Day was practiced because the PAGAN SUN WORSHIPERS would hold their worship on Sunday. Christians could meet on the Lord's Day to keep them away from both the pagan Sabbatarians and the Sun worshipers. Sabbath worship is the prophesied end-time Babylon worship with MUSIC (Re. 18).

You cannot interpret the Bible by attendance, sexual-like FEELINGS or how many you baptized most likely with the Baptist FAITH ONLY baptism which originated in 1525.

It is a fact that MUSIC disables the rational (spiritul) discerning part of the brain and just gulps down any untruth flowing from the musicians singing THEIR OWN songs in violation of a direct command. Sorry, I cannot do 15 second sound bytes: you may need remedial reading.

Ken Sublett

"The Farmer's branch produces panic in the "audience" and may even contribute to premature birth if science is true."


That might be one of the most hilarious things I have ever read in my life. You lost all credibility in my mind with that statement.

You can begin with fallen Satan dubbed Lucifer (Latin) or Zoe and end in Revelation 18 and you will not find a SHRED of evidence which DOES NOT implicate music with destructive results. What YOU hear is based on your level of addiction which does not give you the kick.

All of the evidence in the Bible and secular contemporary writings saw music as the weapon of Satan to bleed off worship to his agents or his/her self. If you FEEL spiritual as a result of the perfected complex harmony then rest assured that they are rubbing your sensitive spots all over your body. They are HURTING you and peddling it as the HOLY SPIRIT.

http://www.piney.com/MuTimeBrain.html

Too much laughing is also a symptom. Beside you are violating the the practice of Christ and the command of Paul which OUTLAWS the creation of excitement during 'church' worships ONLY to the extent that it "glorifies God with one voice" speaking "that which is written." Church is SYNAGOGUE or school of the bible and the "church in the wilderness" or synagogue outlawed instruments and 'making a joyful noise before the lord' becaus that was the warrior's PANIC practice. I say that the professional music is defeating the purpose for the assembly and hiring a MUSICIAN to "preside over the flock" to teach it silly erotic praise songs is just about terminal. God will get rid of both according to Revelation 18 and the lamb comes with a rod.

I might be wrong but you guys WILL NOT find anything positive to say about music related to comming into God's presence. This is why those who have set out to sow discord either don't speak from the Bible or lie about it. Sure, postmodernism does not see that as wrong.

Ken

kenny, oh your so vain, you probably think this song's....opps, I forget, you think all songs are VAIN.

Do you REALLY think you are having an impact? I think your various ramblings are completely unintelligable...and therefore meaningless.

NO ONE at Farmer's Branch Church is LISTENING. You are at a wailing WALL with no one to WAIL against.

JD

I am sorry you feel that no one is listening. I am and I am concerned that we all (Christians) are not as learned as others, myself included. What I see in this and many other posts are two sides. One for "Love", love of the brotherhood, love of strangers, love of the lost. Interesting side note is that a teenager I know mentioned that the Bible is written about a Loving God!!!! Funny I have a hard time reading Joshua and seeing a "God of Love". I know you will all look to I John and see he is a God of Love. True but he is not just a God of Love, he is much more and we have to contend with the otherside of God also,(Heb.10:31).
We miss that God is a God of Destruction as well as Love. Try not to forget everything.
The second is for following scripture and all it contains. Interesting is to say the least. Love or scripture seems to be the split. How so? How can you believe one without the other? How is Love so over powering we forget everything else the NT teaches. How is it possible for Christians on both sides to ignore both teachings?
I consider myself to be well educated in the Bible, I attended ACU, have most of my life attended a conservative church, followed what I believed to be what God wanted from me. I have found some errors in my teaching and in my life.
The church of Christ as I know it is going to die soon. If we weak/strong members do not stand up and say the truth. There are those of the brotherhood that are stronger, more knowledgeable than others. There are those that are intelligent and can glean the meanings of the holy words better than others. Yet we don't stand up and say the truth. Ken is standing up for the truth. He is learned and intelligent and is willing to tell the truth. If you don't want to hear it that is up to you. If you don't want the truth then why are you here, reading and making statements ment to mislead.
I have found his writings to be a bit preachy at times and still learned from them. I understand his frustration at some of you who quibble at him and what he knows is the truth. (II Tim. 2:3-4).
(I Tim. 1:3-10)
Ken is instructing many of us in how to defend our faith against Satan and his attackers no matter where they are or who they are. Ken thank you again for your insights and teachings.
Some may say I am just repeating what I am taught, I am not thinking of my own accord. You know what.... you are quite right. I speak only what I am taught by learned men. Ken is only one of many in my life.
As I have an opportunity to speak:
We (Christians) need to open our eyes to the needs around us. We need to see that many are hurting because we have closed our eyes and ears to their pleas for help.
Matt. 28:19 Tells me to teach all nations. I am a sinner because I do not follow Jesus's command in this area. I am also to blame when my friends fall for scams brought into the church to further the wants and desires of a few men and women.
We, true Christians, the brotherhood, need to stand firm and believe we will overcome.


Thank you for letting me speak.

Duane Bull

I responded yesterday but it must have been a viper which stung it in sending.

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, I preach because I am raging against myself. You know, they say that you cannot fool an earthworm three times in a row. Guess what! The money grubbers FOR THE LOUURDEEE played PONZI on me three time in a row.

A tip: I post reviewed material in RED. Any commentary I make is in BLACK. Quotations from the Bible or scholars will be in BLUE. This means that you can read the ERROR in red and the solution in BLUE without reading me.

And, I don't do WRITING with "beginnings, endings and middles." As time goes on it gets worse: I add any new material where it seems to fit without lots of dialog.

People should appreciate that I collect the facts and link you to the REAL documents so that you don't have to PROCURE MISQUOTES by modern writers.

Thanks again for Abusing the little fellas about no one reading. The e-mails diminish over time but the readership goes up. I never intentionally fail to link you to the research done by others so that you can find similar research. I plant and then leave and let any increase come from God.

Satanic Worship as follows...

When the music fades, all is stripped away
and I simply come.
Longing just to bring, something that's of worth,
that will bless your heart.

I'll bring you more than a song
because a song in itself, is not what you have required.
You search much deeper within,
through the way things appear,
You're looking into my heart.

I'm coming back to the heart of worship
Because it's all about You
It's all about You, Jesus
I'm sorry Lord for the thing I've made it.
It's all about You
It's all about You, Jesus.

------------------------------------------------

This is the air I breathe
This is the air I breathe
Your Holy Spirit, living in me.

This is my daily bread
This is my daily bread
Your Blessed Word, spoken for me.

And I
am desperate for you.
And I
am lost without you...

---------------------------------------------

Hungry, I come to You
For I know You satisfy.
I am empty but I know
Your love does not run dry.

So I wait for you
And I wait for you

I'm falling on my knees
offering all of me
Jesus, You're all this heart
Is living for.

Hungry, I run to You
For Your arms are open wide.
I am weary but I know
Your touch restores my life.

So I wait for you
And I wait for you

I'm falling on my knees
offering all of me
Jesus, You're all this heart
Is living for.

If singing and truly meaning these words means that I am not really praising God, then please tell me what is. If having a piano, a couple of guitars, and some other "contemporary" instruments accompanying me while my heart cries out to God through the medium of these songs is of the devil, then I am condemned.

To set up a web site just to correct other Brethren in the Churches in a harsh manner.

Is your speech always full of grace with much patience.
Are are accepting of the brother who's faith is weaker than yourself.


Are you putting your faith in having each little point in the Process correct, because you know if you miss at even one point you are wrong in all points.

Are you speaking the truth in love?

Remembering Christ came to rescue "US" sinners, not the righteous. Have you set up your own righteousness.

Lastly, is all your trust and faith in the One who came for our salvation, or is it also in your church, its pattern and its perfection. Remembering the church is full of forgiven sinners, who's only righteousness is in Christ. Not in ourselves.

Do you, in your heart realize all the righteous acts of "US" men are as "filthy rags" to a Holy Righteous God.

Our full trust must be in the Christ the Son of the living God. On His Cross and Him crucified. Nothing I have done, am doing, or ever will do, will contribute one iota to his finished sacrifice on the Cross for my sins.

Have you accepted this or are you still relying on a religious system as the Pharisees did, but missed out on the one true and living God.

If not TODAY is the day of salvation, and its time to put ALL your trust in HIS finished work.

Moselle,

I took a much needed break from reading the posts on this unbelievable website to spend some time in worship. Those particular songs have led me into a deeper worship over the past year! Don't you look forward to more and more? I am always so amazed at how the writers of these songs can touch my very heart with words that express my own feelings and love for Jesus. I know that He is well pleased when we, with all of our being, offer up words that we really mean every time we sing them!

Jesus said that the new PLACE for worship to replace the old TEMPLES was the human SPIRIT where it GIVES HEED to the Spirit of Truth. You don't do that with your hands or mouth or pleasure centers.

Paul's unique WORSHIP word means to GIVE HEED to the Word. He said that the Jews NOW worship IN THE SPIRIT and not in the old PLACES. Christians could still attend the synagogue because it was a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE and not a pagan worship center.

Anyone who proposes, in Max Lucado's words, to PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO WORSHIP, simply does not know the meaning of WORSHIP.

There is a major STAR WARS going on and Satan controls most churches so that they CANNOT PARTICIPATE or even know that it will BREAK OUT into hostilities in our VISIBLE world. In fact, the SIGNS are about 100% that the "worship wars" are in effect Armageddon which is a WAR OF WORDS and not a WAR OF THE WORLDS. Paul says that OUT weapons are not LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS OR CARNAL WEAPONS (INSTRUMENTS) The WORD of Christ which is both SPIRIT and LIFE is the offensive and defensive weapons of this warfare. You do know that the HORNS in Revelation are MUSICAL HORNS of PAN who calls everyone to LOOK TO THE HILLS where PAN is the major BILLY GOAT or, as in churches, the Alpha Male.

While those who have chosen human leaders and emotions as their WORSHIP are fiddling while Rome burns. However, God through Himself as Jesus Christ as the POTTER is making up a LITTLE FLOCK of VESSELS so that they can be taken into the Spiritual World which Paul said was not far from us. In fact, we live, move and have our being" right here which can mean nothing other than moving into ANOTHER DIMENSION when we die.

Don't go with the MASSES: Satan is picking out his TEAM to continue to rule the KOSMOS or world but, surprise! it will be burned up. Lucifer came from causing the fall of angels by the use of music: he/she came into the garden of Eden with wind, string and percussion instruments. He makes you FEEL GOOD but that, medically proven, is a DRUG HIGH and the feeling is really sexual.

It is anti-logical to thank that WE worship GOD by making ourself have what the Vineyard Wimbers and some churches of Christ call having a Sexual-like Climactic experience with the Holy Spirit (Holy Spirit is She in Catholicism)

This REVERTS to NEW STYLE WORSHIP which originated in heaven and, according to Paul, wholly seduced Eve but Adam was considered the guilty party because the FRUIT was, based on most older testimony, sodomy which is the CO-PARTNER of ancient and modern musical worship. That's why they DIE, sister.

Does it FEEL REAL GOOD to know that the symptoms PROVE that you have been STUNG by the locusts with scorpion tails? The Locusts are resurrected MUSES to drive away those with the MARK of the Word and the SEAL of Baptism. In Revelation, they CAPTURE by causing a deep spiritual sleep for those MARKED with music (Oh, yes, hoards of evidence). The HIGH you think of as heavenly is a RESERVED PUNISHMENT because the HIGH is created by the hurt or STING of music INJECTING endorphins which produces ONLY the effects of FIGHT, FLIGHT or SEXUALITY.

Ken Sublett

Please check the Dallas Morning News December 15th, 2003. In the Business Section there is a complete whole page listing the true Dallas Area Churches of Christ united in worship and teaching the truth. This whole page listing is in the Business Section of the Newspaper. You can visit
www.dallasnews.com

Amen to this web-site, and let's keep reminding our brothers and sisters as to why we are the Church of Christ.

in his love.
Frank

I have been unable to locate a hard copy of the Dallas Morning News from that date. Do you have a copy of it or know of a link on the web?

Frank,

I don't know the answer to what is happening in the church. I think the traditional Church of Christ has hurt alot of people spiritually and emotionally.I think this has set alot of people up to find a church that they feel cares about them.

Try being a divorced person attending a traditional Church of Christ. I either feel I have to explain WHY I am divorced- apparently some people think its their right to 'approve' whether my divorce was 'scriptural' or not, or alot of people just don't really fellowship with me.

I know women whose husbands verbally, physically and emotionally abused them as well as having affairs. Do these women have to shout it from the pulpit that they are "ok" to fellowship with since thier divorces were scriptural? I think it wouldn't matter; the divorced women I know are basically avoided and ignored by the members of their churches- no one is mean...they just are isolated and feel alone. Think of how their children feel.

What is wrong with this picture? I think that is why so many are flocking to the 'new' churches.

Ultimately I think they will be very hurt by these so- called churches.But SOME people aren't leaving just because they want their ears 'tickled'. They are leaving because they feel they are not wanted or loved in their own churches that they grew up in and loved.Their own people don't care for them. That is why they are leaving, many of them.

I do not think when push comes to shove that some of these people will feel any more cared for or will be happy in some of the 'restoration' churches. Soon, it won't matter what 'denomination' you go to. It will all be the same and there will be no more 'choices'.

I hate to see this happening to the church. But the church hasn't loved its own. It has judged a good many very sincere and hurting members, and yes, shamed them too.So ...seeker sensitive churches? Yes..many are just seeking love and fellowship from other Christians, NOT jst the right to wear shorts to church.

Yes, lets remember why we are members of the Church of Christ.Our pride and snobbishness on a personal level, has lost us many members. We had no business to treat God's children ths way.

Last year Rubel Shelly preached a sermon which said that the staff and elders saw nothing wrong with stand up-preside over role for women.

Now, Rubel and John York (Lipscomb) claim that there is a MINORITY who want women performers. So the ELDERS have REQUESTED that Rubel preach again.

He begins in the same way with with the Creation account which obviously must be wrong. He again tackles MIRIAM but we have shown that Miriam was "prophesying" meaning acting the part of a prophetess of HATHOR the female partner of APIS the golden calf. There's gold in them words: Miriam means BITTER and REBELLIOUS. She LED the women out meaning to ESCAPE where Moses was RECITING the "song." We have looked again at Miriam and will show that God uses MIRIAM as the example of any woman who claims to be a REVEALING PROPHET. This also applies to ANY MAN who cannot claim FACE TO FACE revelation from God. Rubel claims that we will hear the AUDIBLE voice and Max Lucado gets VISIONS. The MAJORITY will believe anything.

http://www.piney.com/RS.Women.1.11.04.html

I am astounded that the small band of self-validating preachers and professors cannot speak the truth without perverting it. I would be ashamed of such HIGH PRICED ignorance.

Next, Rubel Shelly and John York use DEBORAH and JAEL as prototypes of GOD-SELECTED FEMALE LEADERS. Well, if you need someone to drive a Tent Peg into a member of her old Canaanite tribe after offering him FOOD and FELLOWSHIP then old Jael is just for you. They claim that Deborah and Jael represent the BEE and the MILK and HONEY promised in Canaan BEFORE Israel rose up to PLAY in musical idolatry. Rather than "being" MILK, Jael fed Sisera MILK to help put him to sleep but her name means WILD GOATS of the hills. The "bee" in tradition was the DABAR which translates to LOGOS: the messaging of the Mind or Spirit of God in Jesus Christ. The BEE and HONEY has direct trails back to BABYLON.

I have added another section focusing on Deborah and Jael:

http://www.piney.com/RS.Deborah.Jael.1.11.04.html

This reminds me of this guy who did slinking-hiding brain surgery without any training or credentials. How can this be unless it is one of the PROPHESIES of the Beast "working miracles" to seduce the ELECT (electos, ekklesia or church of Christ)

It sounds like one of those old radio shows where people made a fortune speaking nonesense. This false teaching is really the SPEAKING IN TONGUES where the Hebrew LASHON (god of the tongue) and NACHASH (musicl enchanter) has the same meaning. Please help me understand this SCHIZOPHRENIA which Promise Keepers promises (just like Hitler) and delivers EXPECIALLY "among the scholars."

Ken Sublett

It's crowded in worship today
As she slips in trying to fade into the faces
The girls teasing laughter is carrying farther than they know
Farther than they know

CHORUS
But if we are the body
Why aren't His arms reaching?
Why aren't His hands healing?
Why aren't His words teaching?
And if we are the body
Why aren't His feet going?
Why is His love not showing them there is a way?
There is a way

A traveler is far away from home
He sheds his coat and quietly sinks into the back row
The weight of their judgmental glances
Tells him that his chances are better out on the road

CHORUS
Jesus paid much too high a price
For us to pick and choose who should come
And we are the body of Christ

CHORUS
Jesus is the way

Casting Crowns--If We are the Body

I am actually a member at the Farmers Branch Church. I struggle with same sex attraction. I have been BURNED buy the brothers and sisters in our fellowship because I different, so in their minds God must feel the same way. This was not the case at The Branch. They showed me the Love of Christ, THEY SHOWED ME THAT THERE IS A WAY OUT OF THE LIFE OF SIN WHICH IS THE LOVE OF CHRIST. I didn't find this at the piano-less churches and as Jesus said to the Pharisee who we also dead in his prejudices also, 36"Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" 37The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise." (Luke 10:36-37) The churches without the piano treated me like a piece of TRASH, but the church with a piano treated me with the LOVE OF CHRIST... Who was my neighbor, Who did what Christ's GREATEST COMMAND was?

Go and sin no more???

Love the sinner, hate the sin???

Political Correctness???? Unity???

Brothers/ Sisters??? See where we are today???

God Bless Free. We are free in Christ.

IM SAD THAT WE HAVE REACHED THE POINT THAT WE ARE FIGHTING EACH OTHER. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT SATAN WANTS. LETS REMEMBER WE ARE CHRISTAINS. WHERE IS OUR LOVE.

Brothers / Sisters;

Where is in the bible does it say that we are fighting here??? Ken and Donnie, and others are correct...

We have sat in our pews and allowed MAN to take over and spread the truth sideways and crossways, to the point that we do not know who we are anymore...

The Farmers Branch Church of Christ is not your father's Oldsmobile... That is what this site told me, and I investigated for myself... This site is not the bible, and they never said it was... ...but it sure does a good job of reminding us how far we have come to applying mis-truths, and those preachers of today who are re-inventing the gospel...

Gospel according to Max?? Ruby??? Famers Branch???

Love the sinners?? Yes... Help them also...
Hate the sin??? Yes... Preach this loudly...

In christ, whom will judge us, and will have mercy for us sinners.

Frank

Frank,

The point was that the piano-less churches HATED ME!!! And that is not Christ at ALL!!! The church with the piano not only showed me the LOVE OF CHRIST, but showed me the way out of that life of sin!!! Let me repeat that, THEY SHOWED ME THE WAY OUT OF THAT LIFE OF SIN!!!

"Love the sinners?? Yes... Help them also...
Hate the sin??? Yes... Preach this loudly..."

^^^Thats Farmer Branch!!!^^^

This is the piano-less church:

Hate the sinners!!!! RUN FAR FAR AWAY!!!
Hate the sin!!! Because it is not anything like yours!!!

"No temptation has seized you except what is COMMON to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it." (1 Cor. 10:13)

Farmers Branch was that "way out" and it was provided by GOD HIMSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were...

HERE IS THE TRUTH I WAS SHOWN!!!!!

...But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God... 18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Through the Love of Christ poured out through the Community of Faith at the Farmers Branch church of Christ I was able to LIVE inside of the truth of these scriptures.....

So I ask you again...

WHO SHOWED TO LOVE HIS BROTHER???
THE GREATEST COMMAND OF JESUS CHRIST!!!

Sam the music man joined in the Farmer's Branch discussion about music. Well, someone pointed out his BLOG and you might find it interesting.

I told you that Lucifer (Zoe) knew that music can muddle the minds even before there was a garden of Eden. She caused the fall of the angels and showed up in the garden of Eden. Indwelling the king/queen of Tyre she/he was the "singing and harp playing prostitute." As the king/queen of Babylon she went back into Sheol with his/her harps and harpists. As the end time Babylon whore she is Circe or the holy whore of John's Revelation. In Revelation 18 the singers, musicians and craftsmen will again go back into hell with her. The craftsman in the Greek world was the "stage manager and house or theater builder."

Sam can spend 13 hours straight listening to music. Based on all of the Biblical and historical evidence there is no wonder that Sam defends the end-time Babylon scheme. Same notes one thing which he has not yet projected to ALL instruments which have satanic or destructive roots:

"This last weekend, I led worship with a killer 1983 Fender Strat, with point-to-point handwired custom pickup setup through my Boss GT-6 Processor and vintage Ampeg tube amp.

I discovered (yet again) that I shouldn't be playing electric in worship. The entire time we were worshipping, my brain was thinking about five things:

1. Guitar Tone
2. Guitar Tone
3. Guitar Tone
4. Guitar Tone
5 Guitar Tone

There's something about the electric that traps me and envelopes me in pride. I do great with acoustic guitar, piano, drums, bass, etc... but the're something about the electric that gets me.

Does anyone else know what I'm talking about?

Absolutely, Sam! You COULDN'T hallucinate that you can LEAD someone else in worship like you would lead them into making love without having a large dose of PRIDE. "No wat I mean?

David worshiped by singing Psalms "on his bed" and meditating on them. He never fell into such RANK paganism that he thought of himself as a "worship leader." Why, even in old Jezebel's synagogue no singer or musician could enter into the holy precincts without getting executed.

Jesus said that God only SEEKS you when YOU are seeking Him in the new PLACE of the human spirit as it GIVES HEED to the Word. This giving heed is Paul's ONLY worship word. I have to tell you that when the Bible was being written and Jesus cast out the musical minstrels as one casts out dung, only prostitute flute players sang and played at the same time (David didn't do that). Scholars note that for a male to PERFORM publically by singing and playing meant that he was DRUNK (don't get drunk with wine means 'don't get fluted down with wine.') or homosexual.

It is all professional pride, Sam and that was the source of the LUCIFER PRINCIPLE which was bleeding off worship due only to a Holy (wholly) Spirit God Who looks for you only in the mind or spirit. Sam, my man, you are standing squarely between the worshipers and God: you ARE NOT the new mediator in either song or sermon. I think time is running out.

http://middlebrook.blogspot.com/

I have to tell you, Sam, that when the Greeks or Jews intended an instrument they had a word for it. A psalmOIDA both sang and played at the same time. All of the external odeing or "isting" as in harpIST performed the task of SORCERY. And because they had their rationale ONLY in sacrificial systems for which they got a daily dole of food (ONLY) they were called PARASITES. This applied especially to a GUITARIST. The Apostolic Constitutions of those calling themselves the church of Christ (about the year 205) refused to accept an unrepentant guitarist as a member.

When you are NOT lifted up with pride while DRUMMING (the Molech-baby burning instrument, tabret became topheth: hell itself), just be aware that the paying AUDIENCE is not, can not, absolutely not, be giving heed to either God or His Word. They are WATCHING you and admiring you or cursing you or getting their gingles from the vibration (sure) and worshiping YOU and, Sam don't lie, that is WHY you do it. They PROCURED you and are USING you just like pagan temples SERVED by priestesses and prophetesses. Carol Wimber confesses it: the next to last ACT is having a sexual-like climax with God or the spirit (they do that in voodoo). Wouldn't you know it: the last act is GIVING OF MEANS. It's all in the book, Sam and time is running out.

Ken

Pride is a natural struggle inside all of us. If anyone on this posting board claims to not have a struggle with pride in one form or another, then I will call them dishonest.

There were folks who visited my blog, made claims, then didn't have the guts to sign their name, which got their posts deleted.

Ken - I pray that you will experience God's grace somehow.

Sam

Ken,

A few things need be said here.

1. You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to me and my ministry.

2. If you find me ANYONE who preaches, sings, teaches, etc... on a regular basis in front of a group of people who claims to never have a prideful moments, then, I will gladly call that person dishonest.

3. I'm probably the only one who sees the thick irony in you pointing out pride to me.

4. Your post is minsinformed and almost dillusional.

Sam Middlebrook

ALL THE WOMEN OF THE BIBLE



Where there is more than one woman by the same name, the different women are indicated by numbers, i.e., Miriam 1, Miriam 2, etc.



Abi (Abiah) II Kings 18:2; I Chronicles 2:24



Abigail 1 I Samuel 25:3-42; 27:3; 30:5; II Samuel 2:2; 3:3; I Chronicles 3:1



Abigail 2 II Samuel 17:25; I Chronicles 2:16,17



Abihail 1 I Chronicles 2:29



Abihail 2 II Chronicles 11:18



Abishag I Kings 1:3,15; 2:17,21,22,



Abital II Samuel 3:4; I Chronicles 3:3



Achsah Joshua 15:16, 17; Judges 1:12; I Chronicles 2:49



Adah 1 Genesis 4:19,20,23



Adah 2 Genesis 36:2



Agar Galatians 4:24,25



Ahinoam 1 I Samuel 14:50



Ahinoam 2 I Samuel 25:43; 27:3; 30:5; II Samuel 2:2; 3:2; I Chronicles 3:1



Ablai I Chronicles 2:31



Aholah Ezekiel 23:4,5,36,44



Aholibamah Genesis 36:2, 5, 14, 18, 25



Anna Luke 2:36-38



Anah Genesis 36:2



Apphia Philemon 1:2



Asenath Genesis 41:45, 50; 46:20



Atarah I Chronicles 2:26



Athaliah II Kings 8:26; 11:1-3; 13-20; II Chronicles 22:2,10-12; 23:12,13,21; 24:7



Azubah 1 I Chronicles 2:18, 19



Azubah 2 I Kings 22:42; II Chronicles 20:31



Baara I Chronicles 8:8



Bashemath 1 Genesis 26:34



Bashemath 2 Genesis 36:34



Basmath I Kings 4:15



Bathsheba II Samuel 11:3, 12:24; I Kings 1:11,15,16,28,31; 2:13,18,19; I Chronicles 3:5



Bathshua I Chronicles 3:5



Bernice Acts 25:13, 23; 26:30



Bilhah Genesis 29:29; 30:3-7; 35:22,25; 37:2; 46:25; I Chronicles 7:13



Bithiah I Chronicles 4:18



Chloe I Corinthians 1:11



Claudia II Timothy 4:21



Cozbi Numbers 25:15, 18



Damaris Acts 17:34



Deborah 1 Genesis 35:8



Deborah 2 Judges 4:4,5,9,10,14; 5:1,7,12,15



Delilah Judges 16:4,6,10,12,13,18



Dinah Genesis 30:21; 34:1,3,5,13,25,26; 46:15



Dorcas (Tabitha) Acts 9:36,39



Drusilla Acts 24:24



Eglah II Samuel 3:5; I Chronicles 3:3



Elisabeth Luke 1:5,7,13,24,36,40,41,57



Elisheba Exodus 6:23



Ephah I Chronicles 2:46



Ephratah I Chronicles 2:50; 4:4



Ephrath I Chronicles 2:19



Esther Book of Esther



Eunice II Timothy 1:5



Euodias Philemon 4:2



Eve Genesis 3:20; 4:1; II Corinthians 11:3; I Timothy 2:13



Gomer Hosea 1:3



Hadassah (Esther) Book of Esther



Hagar Genesis 16:1,3,4,8,15,16; 21:9,14,17; 25:12



Haggith II Samuel 3:4; I Kings 1:5; II Kings 2:13; I Chronicles 3:2



Hammoleketh I Chronicles 7:18



Hamutal II Kings 23:31; 24:18; Jeremiah 52:1



Hannah I Samuel 1:2-22; 2:1,21



Hazelelponi I Chronicles 4:3



Helah I Chronicles 4:5,7



Hephzibah II Kings 21:1



Herodias Matthew 14:3,6; Mark 6:17, 19,22; Luke 3:19



Hodesh I Chronicles 8:9



Hodiah I Chronicles 4:19



Hoglah Numbers 26:33, 27:1; 36:11, Joshua 17:13



Huldah II Kings 22:14; II Chronicles 34:22



Hushim I Chronicles 8:8,11



Ichabod`s Mother I Samuel 4:19-22



Iscah Genesis 11:29



Jael Judges 4:17,18, 21, 22; 5:6; 24



Jecholiah II Kings 15:2; II Chronicles 26:3



Jedidah II Kings 22:1



Jehoaddan II Kings 14:2; II Chronicles 25:1



Jehosheba II Kings 11:2



Jehudijah I Chronicles 4:18



Jemima Job 42:14



Jepthath's Daughter Judges 11:34,35,40



Jerioth I Chronicles 2:18



Jerusha II Kings 15:33; II Chronicles 27:1



Jezebel l I Kings 16:31; 18:4,13,19; 19:12; 21:5-25; II Kings 9:7,10,22,30,36,37



Jezebel 2 Revelation 2:20



Joanna Luke 8:3; 24:10



Jochebed Exodus 6:20; Numbers 26:59



Judah Jeremiah 3:7,8,10



Judith Genesis 26:34



Julia Romans 16:15



Keren-happuch Job 42:14



Keturah Genesis 25:1,4; I Chronicles 1:32,33



Kezia Job 42:14



Leah Genesis 29:16-32; 30:9-20; 31:4,14,33; 33:1,2,7; 34:1; 35:23,26; 46:15,18; 49:31; Ruth 4:11



Lois II Timothy 1:5



Lo-ruhamah Hosea 1:6,8



Lot's Wife Genesis 19:26; Luke 17:32



Lydia Acts 16:14,20



Maachah 1 Genesis 22:24



Maachah 2 II Samuel 3:3; I Chronicles 3:2



Maachah 3 I Kings 15:2; II Chronicles 11:20-22



Maachah 4 I Kings 15:10,13; II Chronicles 15:16



Maachah 5 I Chronicles 2:48



Maachah 6 I Chronicles 7:15,16



Maachah 7 I Chronicles 8:29; 9:35



Mahalah I Chronicles 7:18



Mahalath 1 Genesis 28:9



Mahalath 2 II Chronicles 11:18



Mahlah Numbers 26:33; 27:1; 36:11; Joshua 17:3



Manoah's Wife Judges 13:2-23



Mara Ruth 1:20



Martha Luke 10:38,40,41; John 11:1,5,9,20,24,30,39



Mary Mother of Jesus Matthew 1:16,18,20; 2:11; 13:55; Mark 6:3; Luke 1:27-56; 2:5,16,19,34; Acts 1:14



Mary Magdalene (2) Matthew 27:56,61; 28:1; Mark 15:40,47; 16:1,9; Luke 8:2; John 19:25; 20:1,11,16,18



Mary of Bethany (3) Mark 14:3-9; Luke 10:39; 42; John 11:1-45; 12:3



Mary 4 Matthew 27:56, 61; 28:1; Mark 15:40,47; 16:1; Luke 24:10; John 19:25



Mary 5 Acts 12:12



Mary 6 Romans 16:6



Matred Genesis 36:39; I Chronicles 1:50



Mehetabel Genesis 36:39; I Chronicles 1:50



Meshullemeth II Kings 21:19



Michaiah II Chronicles 13:2



Michal I Samuel 14:49; II Samuel 3:13,14; 6:16,20,21,23; I Chronicles 15:29



Milcah l Genesis 11:29; 22:20,23,24;15;24;47



Milcah 2 Numbers 26:33; 27:1; 36:11; Joshua 17:3



Miriam 1 Exodus 15:20; 21; Numbers 12:1,4,5,10,15; 20:1; Deuteronomy 24:9; I Chronicles 6:3; Micah 6:4



Miriam 2 I Chronicles 4:17



Naamah l Genesis 4:22



Naamah 2 I Kings 14:21; 31; II Chronicles 12:13



Naarah I Chronicles 4:5,6



Naomi Book of Ruth



Nehushta II Kings 24:8



Noadiah Nehemiah 6:14



Noah Numbers 26:33; 27:1; 36:11; Joshua 17:3



Orpha Ruth 1:4,14



Penninah I Samuel 1:2,4,



Persis Romans 16:12



Panuel Luke 2:36



Phoebe Romans 16:1,2



Pilate's Wife Matthew 27:19



Potiphar's Wife Genesis 39:7,8,9,12,19



Priscilla (Prisca) Acts 18:2,18,26; Romans 16:3; I Corinthians 16:19; II Timothy 4:19



Puah Exodus 1:15



Queen of Sheeba I Kings 10:1,4,10,13; II Chronicles 9:1,3,9,12; Matthew 12:42; Luke 11:31



Rachel Genesis 29:16-31; 30:1-25; 31:4-34; 33:1,2,7; 35:16-25; 46:19-25; Ruth 4:11; I Samuel 10:2; Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:18



Rahab 1 Joshua 2:1,3,6; 17,23,25; Hebrews 11:31; James 2:25



Rahab 2 Matthew 1:5



Rebekah Genesis 22:23; 24; 25; 26; 27; 28; 29:12; 35:8; 49:31; Romans 9:10



Reumah Genesis 22:24



Rhoda Acts 12:13



Rizpah II Samuel 3:17; 21:8,10,11



Ruth Book of Ruth



Salome Matthew 20:20; 27:56; Mark 16:1-8



Samaritan Woman John 4:7-42



Sapphira Acts 5:1



Sarah 1 Genesis 11; 12; 16-18; 20; 21; 23-25; 49:31; Isaiah 51:2; Romans 4:19; 9:9; Hebrews 11:11; I Peter 3:6



Sarah 2 Genesis 46:17; Numbers 26:45; I Chronicles 7:30



Shelomith 1 Leviticus 24:11



Shelomith 2 I Chronicles 3:19



Shelomith 3 II Chronicles 11:2



Sherah I Chronicles 7:24



Shimeath II Kings 12:21; II Chronicles 24:25



Shimrith II Chronicles 24:26



Shiphrah Exodus 1:15



Shomer II Kings 12:21; II Chronicles 24:25



Shunammite II Kings 4:8-37; 8:1-6



Suzana Luke 8:3



Syntyche Philippians 4:2



Syrophoenician Woman Matthew 15:21-28; Mark 7:24-30



Tabitha (Dorcas) Acts 9:36,39



Tahpenes I Kings 11:19,20



Tamar 1 Genesis 38:6,11,l3,24; Ruth 4:12; I Chronicles 2:4



Tamar 2 II Samuel 13:1-32; I Chronicles 3:9



Tamar 3 II Samuel 14:27



Taphath I Kings 4:11



Thamar Matthew 1:3



Timna Genesis 36:12



Tirzah Numbers 26:33; 27:1; 36:11; Joshua 17:3



Tryphena Romans 16:12



Tryphosa Romans 16:12



Vashti Esther 1:9,11,2,15-17,19; 2:1,4,17



Virtuous woman Proverbs 31:10-31



Widow of Zarephath I Kings 17:8-24; Luke 4:25,26



Woman of Endor I Samuel 28:7-25



Woman Patriot of Thebez Judges 9:53



Zebudah II Kings 23:36



Zeresh Esther 5:10; 14; 6:13



Zeruah I Kings 11:26



Zeruiah I Samuel 26:6; II Samuel 2:13,18; 3:39; 8:16; 14:1; 16:9-23; I Kings 1:7; 2:5,22; I Chronicles 2:16; 11:6,39; 18:12,15: 26:28;27:24



Zibiah II Kings l2:1; II Chronicles 24:1



Zillah Genesis 4:19,22,23



Zilpah Genesis 29:24; 30:9,10; 35:26; 37:2; 46:18



Zipporah Exodus 2:21; 4:25; 18:2

Now Ken when you read all of this we " Hellen and I" will come back and give you more to read on the subject" matter of fact we have serveral in our campus group will be trying to educate you.

I would not be terribly surprised if about half of the people who existed back then were female.

I'll be happy to tell you something about Eve you didn't know. Paul wasn't blowing smoke, you know.

And then about Miriam: name means BITTER WATERS. Probably Paul's example, after Eve, of the prototypical usurping woman. I'll tell you about Deborah and Huldah.

Then, I'll tell you about that AUTHORITY word (authentia) which OUTLAWS any preside over role for women in the SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE unless you intend to ATTRACT.

And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. (Deuteronomy 6:6-7)

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. (Matthew 28:19-20)

And the servant of the Lord must be...apt to teach...(II Timothy 2:24)

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. (Hebrews 5:12)

And Jesus, when He came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd; and He began to teach them many things. (Mark 6:34)

...According to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself:

That in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ...(Ephesians 1:9-10)

In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace. (Ephesians 1:7)

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places, might be known by the Church the manifold wisdom of God,

According to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord... (Ephesians 3:10-11)

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. (Matthew 28:19-20)

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. (Matthew 28:20)

And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
(II Timothy 2:2)

Let him that is taught in the Word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. (Galatians 6:6)

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers...(I Corinthians 12:28)

And He gave some...teachers... (Ephesians 4:11)

Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers?... (I Corinthians 12:29)

For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us...let us wait on our ministering...he that teacheth, on teaching. (Romans 12:4-7)

From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. (Ephesians 4:16)

TEACHING MUST BE BASED ON GOD'S WORD, NOT DOCTRINES OF MEN:

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Mark 7:7)

Teaching man's rules, commandments, and doctrines is "vain". This means it is unsuccessful and accomplishes no good purpose. Biblical teaching is not based on the wisdom of man:

Which things also we speak, not in the word which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(I Corinthians 2:13)

God's wisdom accomplishes His purposes in the lives of those taught:
...Christ in you, the hope of glory;

Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. (Colossians 1:27-28)


NOW ALL I HAVE SEEN ON THIS SITE IS KEN AND DONNIE IMPOSING THERE OWN DOCTRINE UPON MEN.

Now I have notice thre moderator has allowed Ken free run of reposting his comments in multi places saying the same rederick, I hope my class mates are allowed the same Privelege.

Actually the "church" at Farmers Branch has been unfaithful for decades! They went from antism to liberalism. They are extremists! The fact is hundreds of churches that used to be "sound" are currently departing formthe faith, and it aches the heart of God. Brethren, it is high time that we lay our own thoughts down, and uphold the word of truth. Reflections, a new brotherhood paper, is currently underway, with our first mailing hopefully to be the first week in Jan.(Of which I am the editor) This paper will be well-balanced, sound, and helpful as the faithful conservative Christians rally together and lift up the sacred truth ! If you would like to receive this paper just email your mailing address to preacherbrant@yahoo.com and I will be glad to add you free of charge. Send the names of nay other members that you think would "need" the paper! Thanks for your help, and as far as the Bible teaches, Farmers Branch, is not departing, they HAVE DEPARTED !!! I am willing to defend that in public debate any day of the week !

Yours in the Faith,
Brant Stubblefield
gospel preacher for the church of Christ in Lindsay, Ok

PS. Check out the following we page www.oabs.com

Would some one like to explain "What This Site is Realy about" ??????

I wanted to look up information on Leroy Garrison and stumbled onto Mr. Sublett's work. I can't understand it. I feel like I have stumbled onto a secret society (Mr. Sublett and those who agree with him) who write with more emotion than clarity.

I will not be visiting this site any more.

God bless all of you who are striving to reckon His Law with His Grace.