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seekingtopleaseGodonly
(Login seekingtopleaseGodonly)
70.240.116.220

But you have not "proved it" sir!

May 5 2005, 10:18 AM 

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU HAVE POINTED OUT. You have not "proved it" sir! YOU NEED TO RE-READ THE ABOVE MESSAGES FROM DAVID AND MYSELF CAREFULLY.


Re: B
Re: Big Mike Lewis May 1 2005, 10:00 PM


Since you keep calling the KJV "God's word" while pointing out the flaws in the NIV, you shouldn't get terribly insulted when someone does the exact same thing to you.

I did point out a flaw: the use in the KJV of the phraze "God forbid" in several locations (including Romans 6:2) where the words meaning "God" or "forbid" do not appear in the Greek. There are others, but there's not much point in creating a list for someone who will only continue to refer to the KJV as "God's word" as if the NAS, NIV, ASV, RSV, etc. are not.




 
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B
(no login)
65.71.152.113

Re: But you have not "proved it" sir!

May 5 2005, 7:02 PM 

If you are unwilling to admit that there are some verses that are more accurate in the NIV than the KJV just as I AM WILLING to admit that there are some verses that are more accurate in the KJV than the NIV, then there is no point in continuing this discussion.

 
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SeektopleaseGodonly
(Login seekingtopleaseGodonly)
70.240.116.220

I can play basketball better than Michael Jordan!

May 6 2005, 10:47 AM 

(This one goes out to "B" and everyone else out there who think that they can make bold statments about the Word Of God and not have to "prove" those statements;)

1Th:5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.


I can play basketball better than Michael Jordan and I can dance better than Michael Jackson!

Really I can!

Would you like me to "prove it!

I do not have to "prove" any; I said it and that should be good enough for you.


(This is how you come across when others who are lovers of the truth read your messages on this site. I have just as much belief in the majority of the things you are writing as I have in the statement that I just wrote above.)

 
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B
(no login)
65.70.14.52

Re: I can play basketball better than Michael Jordan!

May 6 2005, 2:20 PM 

First of all, I hesitate to continue in a debate with someone who, given current events, would have the lack of sense to compare himself (even in jest) to Michael Jackson.

Second, I have already mentioned the use of "God Forbid" in several places in the KJV (specifically Romans 6:2). In the Greek, it reads "ma genoito". Neither of those words is "God" or "forbid". You chose to ingore that example.

Here's another one for you. <Proof ahead - don't ignore this> In I John 5:7, "the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost" was not found in ANY manuscripts until the 16th century. FOR 1500 YEARS THAT WAS NOT IN THE BIBLE. The KJV and NKJV are the only versions to IGNORE the overwhelming evidence that those words are NOT PART OF THE INSPIRED WORD OF GOD. It came from the Latin Vulgate and was added to pacify those trying to add more weight to the concept of the trinity. You should be as offended by that as you are by problems in the NIV. Luckily, they weren't able to sneak anything in about the pope, or you would be blindly defending that as well.

And don't assume you know me, by referring to anyone who is on the opposite side of this argument as a "lover of truth" as if I am not. I would not have taken the time to study these things, if I were not searching out truth.

As for your test above:

Romans 8:3 - I actually think the KJV is better than the NIV on this verse. I haven't checked other versions yet. I'm not a big fan of the term "sinful nature" that the NIV uses, although it is frequently an accurate thought.

1 Timothy 3:16 - I'm not sure why the NIV uses "body" instead of "flesh". It doesn't seem to affect the meaning either way. I'm not sure if you have an issue with the "taken up" versus "received up". I'm guessing you do by the underscore. The root word is "lambano" which can mean either take or receive. The "ane" prefix (from ana) adds "up" to the meaning.

I Peter 3:18 - You don't have this underlined, but the KJV uses the word "suffered" while the KJV uses the word "died". Although we all know that Christ did suffer, the Greek apethanev (from apothnasko) is usually translated he died. Funny that one wasn't underlined, don't you think? Flesh/body - already covered in 1 Timothy 3:16.

1 Peter 4:1 - Flesh/body - Do you find such a different meaning in these two that is has caused your walk with God to suffer? Body is simply a more modern term for flesh.

I John 4:2 - The true translation of elaluthota is "having come". It is a perfect participle. Since that doesn't make for sound English (and neither the KJV nor the NIV uses a participle), has come is actually closer to the meaning than is come.

I John 4:3 - The word flesh (sarkos) is not in the Greek! Neither is the "in the" that precedes it in the KJV. Research this before you assume the guy who wrote this is right. The NIV is dead on in this verse. It's ironic that versions that don't "pass the test" cannot be considered as the word of God according to this verse, when the KJV adds words that aren't even there.

II John 2:7 - The word for come, erchomenon, is a participle and is properly translated in the NIV.


You're right. Proof is a great idea. I would imagine you could make a similar list for the NIV (although you failed miserably this time). That's why I don't blindly assume that one version is perfect, and the others are all garbage.


2 observations to take special note of:

1. The major versions don't mess up on the verses that have to do with the plan of salvation (hearing, believing, repentance, confession and baptism) or the basic things God expects from a Christian.

2. You should not make too many assumptions about any of the major versions without at least a basic knowledge of Biblical languages or manuscript history. ALL of them are exact at times and ALL of them take liberties at times that they should not. The fact that someone else uses a version that is different than yours does not make them wrong, from Satan or anything of the kind.

And by the way, insulting and belittling the versions others use and their religious practices will not convince anyone to change anything.

 
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seekingtopleaseGodonly
(Login seekingtopleaseGodonly)
70.240.116.220

Who are you defending God or Satan?

May 8 2005, 2:05 PM 

Re: ”B”

You should be more concerned about 110 plus corrupted versions of God’s word than the current happenings in the life of Michael Jackson. MJ can only harm so many (if the claims are true – I am not the judge or the jury in his case), but these corrupted modern versions are jeopardizing the eternal lives of people by the multi-millions. But it does not seem as if you care about that.

You are continually defending all of these corrupted versions at all costs, and do not seem to care if there are changes and additions in these books that are clearly forbidden by God.

Are you defending God or the right to use any corrupted Bible version?

I wonder what Jesus would do in your situation. Would he defend and encourage the use of a corrupted version of God’s word?

Would Jesus defend and encourage the use of the NIV that you are so viciously defending even though the NIV calls Jesus and Satan by the same name?

http://jesus-is-lord.com/nivsatan.htm


NIV Calls Lucifer, "Jesus"

Lucifer, Satan, NIV
________________________________________
(1) Just about everybody knows the word "Lucifer" as another name for Satan. The word "Lucifer" is found one time in the King James Bible.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

(2) But what about the NIV? The word "Lucifer" is clean, bald-headed gone and now this creature is identified as the "morning star". Lucifer is the "morning star" in the NIV.
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

(3) So we know that in the NIV the "morning star" is a negative, evil figure. Right? He was fallen from heaven. He was cast down to the earth. Can we find the "morning star" anywhere else in the NIV? Yes! The following passages in the NIV show the "morning star" as Jesus Christ! But the NIV just called the fallen creature of Isaiah 14:12 "morning star". Lucifer AND Jesus are ONE in the NIV! Lord have mercy, Jesus! Help me, Lord.
NIV: Revelation 22:16,
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you [1] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
NIV: 2 Peter 1:19,
And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
NIV: Revelation 2:28--
I will also give him the morning star.
________________________________________
NIV Reader, can you say to the "lord" OUT LOUD,
"Oh, lord, Thank you for giving me the NIV.
It is proper to call Jesus a fallen creature.
Jesus and Lucifer are the same.
Thank you, father."
If you can, the lord and father
you are praying to is--SATAN.
If you cannot say this, you need to
UTTERLY DESTROY
your perverted "bible". Don't even use it to "help" you.
Get a King James Bible so you can have the true word of God.
This is very serious.
________________________________________

This is from a person who wrote the preface to the NASV. Let’s see what he has to say!



NASV Committee Member
NASV, New American Standard Version, NASV

"I must under God denounce every attachment to the New American Standard Version. I'm afraid I'm in trouble with the Lord...We laid the groundwork; I wrote the format; I helped interview some of the translators; I sat with the translator; I wrote the preface. When you see the preface to the New American Standard, those are my words...it's wrong, it's terribly wrong; it's frightfully wrong...I'm in trouble;...I can no longer ignore these criticisms I am hearing and I can't refute them. The deletions are absolutely frightening...there are so many. The finest leaders that we have today haven't gone into it [new versions of Hort and Wescott's corrupted Greek text] just as I hadn't gone into it...that's how easily one can be deceived...Are we so naive that we do not suspect Satanic deception in all of this?"
--Dr. Frank Logsdon, Committee Member
New American Standard Version


Now let us talk about faith.


Heb:11:1: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb:11:6: But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I have a question for you.

Am I supposed to have faith in you and believe you when you are saying that ALL translations of God’s Word are corrupted; or should I have faith in God and the things that God says about his Word?

Let us see what God says about his Word.

(The following passages were taken from “Spiritual deception in the highest” pt. 2 of 2. I wish that I could post the entire document here but it is much too large. This document is full of useful information on the history of Bible translations. I strongly encourage everyone who is a “lover of the truth” to read it. There is a link to it on this site. I have also provided a link to it here. It has a wealth of information on the subject of God's Word and I strongly encourage anyone who is studying the history of God's Word to visit this site.)

http://www.concernedmembers.com/spiritualdeception2.htm#20)


24:2 W H A T G O D S A I D A B O U T H I S W O R D
"FOREVER, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." (Psalm 119:89)
" ... thou hast magnified thy word above ALL thy name." (Psalm 138:2)
"The words of the Lord [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt KEEP THEM, O Lord, thou shalt PRESERVE them from this generation for ever." (Psalm 12:6-7)
"Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words SHALL NOT pass away." (Luke 21:33)
"The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God SHALL STAND FOR EVER." (Isaiah 40:8)
" ... the scripture CANNOT be broken;" (John 10:35)
And, lest any of us think that God cannot accomplish His promises; God has already anticipated our doubts. He says:
"Behold, I [am] the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?" (Jeremiah 32:27).


I think I will take God’s Word over your word, nothing personal, But God is wiser than you!

Satan recognizes that bibles are needed to control the masses. The DEVELOPMENT of New Age Bibles is among his top priorities.



23:3 F I N A N C I A L C O P Y R I G H T S
'Modern' versions are financially copyrighted. Why is this?
"God has only one Bible. All the other versions ... are not Bibles, but books of men" .
'Modern versions' are copyrighted because they are the product of men's efforts, not God's.
Contrast this to the text of the King James Bible. The KJV text can be copied, reproduced, quoted etc. etc. without any intervention by man.
Peter Ruckman points out:
"The AV has no financial copyright. It has the Crown Copyright, which only applies to Bible publishers in the United Kingdom, and this copyright DOES NOT demand money from anyone who wishes to quote, cite, reproduce, or print any passage from it".
Barry Burton says the: "Thomas Nelson Co. has a copyright notice in the front of ... King James Bibles that they print. It makes it APPEAR that they have the copyright to the King James Bible. HOWEVER ... if you call the Thomas Nelson Company, they will tell you that they do not have a copyright on the King James text (the Bible itself). What they have copyrighted are the notes and the layout" .



Now we will address the issue of Greek. As you may or may not know, there are actually more than one form of biblical text writings in the Greek language. So when you say something is "not in Greek", your statement is too vague to be accurate. You conveniently left out the name of the Greek text that you are referencing when you pointed out the alleged problem with “GOD FORBID” missing.

Nevertheless I will share this with you and all who are seeking the truth.


S A T A N ' S C O U N T E R F E I T S :
T H E S I N A I T I C U S A N D V A T I C A N U S T E X T S
( Corrupted Minority Texts In Greek )
"In our day there are reputed to be about 110 so-called translations of the Bible or New Testament in the English language alone ... Of those 110 versions only the King James Version (Authorized) is translated from the Received Text (Textus Receptus). All the others, even though no two of them agree with each other, were translated from another source. That other source is the Misters Westcott and Hort Text".
Jasper James Ray 'echoes' the same report. He says all modern Bibles since 1611 are: "... for the most part, in agreement with the Greek Text of Westcott and Hort" .
So, where did the Greek Text of Westcott and Hort come from?
"The Greek text of Westcott and Hort is ... from a very limited and select number of manuscripts" . "The Westcott and Hort Greek New Testament was primarily based on the Vaticanus (B) and Sinaiticus (Aleph) manuscripts of the fourth century, both of which originated from the Alexandrian School" .
In this chapter we discuss the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus manuscripts.
The reader should note that 'Vaticanus' is sometimes called 'Codex Vaticanus'. The word 'Codex' means the manuscript is in 'book' form, verses a scroll. Vaticanus is also called 'B'.
Sinaiticus is also referred to as 'Codex Sinaiticus'. Again the word Codex meaning this manuscript is also in 'book' form, verses scroll. Sometimes Sinaiticus is also called 'Aleph'.
In summary: "The text of Westcott and Hort is practically the text of Aleph and B" . i.e. Sinaiticus and Vaticanus.
20:4 S I N A I T I C U S A N D V A T I C A N U S
Since the Vaticanus originated between 325 A.D. and 350 A.D; and since the Sinaiticus originated about 340 A.D. :
"Several textural authorities believe that the Sinaitic and Vatican manuscripts are two extant copies of the 50 Greek manuscripts copied for Constantine by Eusebius in 331 A.D." .
One of those authorities is Dr. Herman C. Hoskier. He says:
"My thesis is then that B (Vaticanus) and Aleph (Sinaiticus) ... are Egyptian revisions current between A.D. 200-400 and abandoned between 500 and 1881, merely revived in our day ..." .
Do you remember in an earlier chapter we talked about Constantine? We said that, on the surface, he put on the 'robe' of Christianity. But, behind the scenes, he had Eusebius prepare 50 corrupt Bibles from the heretical teachings of Origin.
It's possible that we have 2 copies of Satan's corrupted minority Greek texts resurfacing again from the year 331 A.D. Westcott and Hort then use these 2 corrupt texts to produce their own corrupt Greek text.


28:2 C O M E, L E T U S R E A S O N T O G E T H E R
Would Jesus Christ leave the world, for the last 2,000 years, WITHOUT leaving us his true New Testament Word? Would He NEGLECT everyone for the last 2,000 years?
The simple truth is this: When Jesus Christ left the earth, he left MANY witnesses. Those witnesses wrote down what Jesus said and did. In fact, Jesus left so many witnesses that there are still more than 5,000 Greek New Testament manuscripts which EXIST TODAY. The early church had those witnesses. We have them, too.
From those 5,000 New Testament witnesses we can take ANY Bible and test it for accuracy.
The King James Bible has been found to AGREE with those 5,000 witnesses in 90-95% of the cases. That agreement level is why the King James is called: 'The Majority Text'.
So, we do have God's Word, and we have it, today.
If, on the other hand, we take the Westcott and Hort New Testament text (which underpins 'modern' versions) and if we compare it to the 5,000 Greek New Testament manuscripts; we find that it DISAGREES with 90-95% of the witnesses. That is why it is called the 'Minority Text'.
The bottom line is this: Jesus said you will know a tree by its fruit.
As a Christian, you need to compare the 'fruit' of these Bibles and decide whether you believe the King James Bible (The Majority Text) contains the Word of God, or whether the Word of God is in these 'modern' versions (the Minority Text).
Remember that the Bible is not just any book; it is the Word of God, and is, therefore, subject to spiritual attack.
In fact it is due to SPIRITUAL ATTACK, that there EVEN EXISTS a MINORITY of the 5,000 Greek New Testament texts which ARE CORRUPTED. Without that spiritual attack, the King James Bible would have agreed with 100% of the 5,000 Greek New Testament witnesses.
Remember also: Jesus has the name above all names (Philip. 2:9). And the Bible goes on to say that: God has MAGNIFIED HIS WORD ABOVE ALL HIS NAME (Psalms 138:2).
Wow! That is getting up there!
Thus, when we are talking about the Word of God, we are discussing a VERY, VERY, important topic.
This report was written for the Glory of God and to point everyone toward His True Word.
- THY WORD have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee. ( Ps 119:11 )
- I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget THY WORD. ( Ps 119:16 )
- For ever, O Lord, THY WORD is settled in heaven. (Ps 119:89)
- I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep THY WORD. ( Ps 119:101 )
- THY WORD [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. ( Ps 119:105 )
- Thou [art] my hiding place and my shield: I hope in THY WORD. ( Ps 119:114 )
- THY WORD [is] true [from] the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments [endureth] for ever. ( Ps 119:160 )


G O D ' S P R E S E R V E D W O R D
The foreword to the NASB Bible says that ONLY the originals were inspired. It says: "The New American Standard Bible has been produced with the conviction that the words of scripture AS ORIGINALLY PENNED in the Hebrew and Greek were inspired by God" .



Today it is taught that: "... God wrote the originals perfectly, but that there is NO perfect translation. Yet, there is NO scripture that teaches any such thing!.
We are told that God CAN NOT use Holy men to translate His Word (from the Traditional Majority Text) into the various world languages.
Yet, if God used Holy men to write His originals, why can't He use Holy men to translate his Word?
Something is wrong, here. The logic, in what we're being told, does not make sense.
So, in this chapter, let's examine what God said about His Word.

24:3 I N S P I R E D A N D P R E S E R V E D
Contrary to what we're being told, God says that his word is WITH us and is PRESERVED forever.
Reverend Gipp agrees and points out:
" ... the Bible is a spiritual book which God exerted supernatural force to conceive, and it is reasonable to assume that He could exert the same supernatural force to PRESERVE it" .
Edward Hills comments:
"... why would God infallibly inspire these original manuscripts if He did not intend to PRESERVE their texts by His special providence down through the ages?" .
"... if the providential PRESERVATION of the Scriptures is not important, why is the infallible INSPIRATION of the original Scriptures important? .
"Every argument for inerrant, infallible INSPIRATION applies also for inerrant, infallible PRESERVATION. It is the same God!" .
"If the doctrine of the Divine inspiration of the Old and New Testament scriptures is true doctrine, the doctrine of the providential preservation of the scriptures MUST also be a true doctrine. It must be that down through the centuries God has exercised a special providential control over the copying of the scriptures ... so that trustworthy representatives of the original text have been available to God's people in every age" [S6P192-3].
"There exists NO reason for supposing that the divine agent who ... gave to mankind the scriptures ... straightway abdicated his office, took no further care of his work, [and] abandoned these precious writings to their fate" .
Or put another way:
"Are we to simply believe that, for a millenium and a half, the New Testament languished textually until it was providentially rescued in the last century by two random discoveries: in a Vatican archive and in a Mount Sinai wastebasket ...? .
" ... if God has not preserved His words ... then he has done something which He has never done before. He has wasted His time!" .
No dear reader, God has not wasted His time. He has, in fact, preserved his Words. For instance:
"A.W. Pink ... wrote that the indestructibility of the Bible is proof that the Author is Divine... A very small percentage of books survive more than twenty years, a yet smaller percent last a hundred years, and only an INSIGNIFICANT fraction ... have lived a thousand years" ."As Dean Burgon (1883) pointed out, the history of the New Testament text is the history of a conflict between God and Satan. Soon after the New Testament books were written Satan corrupted their texts by means of heretics and misguided critics whom he had raised up. These assaults, however, on the integrity of the Word were repulsed by the providence of God, who guided true believers to reject these false teachings and to preserve the True Text in the majority of the Greek New Testament manuscripts .

So, we know God HAS preserved His Word.


It's possible that we have 2 copies of Satan's corrupted minority Greek texts resurfacing again from the year 331 A.D. Westcott and Hort then use these 2 corrupt texts to produce their own corrupt Greek text.

John Burgon said of the W&H text:
"... the Greek Text which they have INVENTED proves to be hopelessly depraved ... The underlying Greek is a MANUFACTURED article throughout ... The New Greek Text was FULL OF ERRORS from beginning to end ... " .
John Burgon said to Westcott and Hort:
"It was no part of your instructions to INVENT a new Greek Text, or indeed to MEDDLE with the original Greek at all ... By your OWN confession - you and your colleges knew yourselves to be INCOMPETENT. Shame on [those] most incompetent men who ... occupied themselves ... with FALSIFYING the inspired Greek Text ... Who will venture to predict the amount of MISCHIEF which must follow if the 'New' Greek Text ... should become used" . Immortal words indeed:
"... Who will venture to predict the amount of mischief which must follow if the 'New' Greek Text ... should become used".
The W&H corrupted Greek Text is now in more than 110+ 'modern' versions.
"... all Greek texts produced since 1611, which are in agreement with Westcott and Hort are founded upon the same quicksands ... Since Westcott and Hort's text is corrupt, all in agreement with it are corrupt also" .

And so the foundation for a 'mass deception' had been laid by Satan through his use of Westcott and Hort.
In summary; we can trace 'modern corruptions' back to the 1881 English Revised Version Of Westcott and Hort:


Quotes from: Edwin Palmer
Coordinator Of: 'All The Work On The NIV Bible'
"[T]his [his NIV Bible] shows the GREAT ERROR that is so prevalent today in some orthodox Protestant circles, namely that regeneration depends upon faith ... and that in order to be born again a man must first accept Jesus as his Savior ..." .
"... that Christ loved the whole world equally and gave himself up for the world is WRONG" .
"[There are] few clear and decisive texts that declare Jesus is God" .
"The committee DID NOT FEEL BOUND TO THE HEBREW TEXT ..." .



26:4 B E W A R E O F T H E C O U N T E R F E I T
In effect, the men who write lexicons are saying: "Yea, hath God said?" And these same men then say: "God did not say the English words that are in your King James Bible, what God really meant was ....".
Then the 'counterfeit' is given to the Christian.
Lexicons are subtle and devious in their methodology. G.A. Riplinger believes we should rename them: "Lucifer's Lexicons" .



Lexicons corrupt the word of God.
In this chapter we will see how that happens.

26:2.1 M E T H O D 1
In method 1, the Christian looks up an English word in their King James Bible. If a 'lexicon' is used, it cross references the Bible's original English word to the Bible's original Hebrew/Greek word. Then the Christian is given the lexicon's 'new' English translation of that original Hebrew/Greek Word.
Notice how the Christian makes a 360 degree circle from the Holy Spirit's chosen English word, to the Holy Spirit's chosen Hebrew/Greek word, to "another" English word chosen by MAN!
Since God is perfect, and man is not, this method corrupts God's Word.
Notice also, method #1 approaches the Word of God by 'doubting' him. i.e. by doubting His choice of the original English words.
That is how some people use a lexicon.
Knowingly or unknowingly Christians are being misled from what God wants them to know, to what man and/or Satan puts in place of God's original!
Thus, a Christian may have God's Word (from their King James Bible), but they can get 'derailed' by reading man's words in place of God's Words!

26:2.2 E X A M P L E O F M E T H O D 1
The following is an example of using method 1. Let's see how God's Word gets corrupted.
In the King James Bible, in Isaiah 7:14, it says:
"... Behold, a VIRGIN shall conceive, and bear a son ...".
If I look up the original Hebrew word for 'virgin' in a corrupted (but popular) Strong's lexicon, it says the original Hebrew word is: 'al-maw'.
To that original word 'al-maw', Strong gives his definitions. That's right 'plural' definitions! Strong says al-maw is a "young woman" and could EITHER be A) of marriageable age or B) maid or newly married.
Notice Strong NEVER translates it "virgin"!
Think about it.
The Holy Spirit translated 'al-maw' as "virgin". For a "virgin" to conceive is an obvious MIRACLE.
But Strong says an 'equivalent translation' is "young woman"!
There are two MAJOR problems with Strong's translation:
1) If a "young woman" gave birth to Jesus, this is NOT a miracle. Young women give birth all the time! By Strong's definition, Jesus is just ANY man. If Jesus is just any man, then we are still in our sins. If we are still in our sins, then we are not saved. If we are not saved, then we have a big, big, problem.
2) In Strong's definition 'A' he says "of marriageable age". Strong does not say Mary was married, only that she was of marriageable age. In Strong's definition 'B' he has 2 translations: 1) maid (i.e. a woman who is not married) or 2) newly married. Thus, in most of these definitions, Strong is inferring that Mary is unmarried. Since Mary is pregnant and Strong is inferring that she is unmarried, Strong is calling Mary a whore !
Folks, this is heresy.
Lexicons are apostate and are ANOTHER way to corrupt the Word of God.

Some people 'like' the new version's translation. However, the 'new version' does not give the FULL meaning.
If I use Strong's lexicon and look up the original Greek word I find it is "agape". In the King James Bible, the Holy Spirit translated agape as 'charity' in 1st Corinthians 13:13 BUT the Holy Spirit translated agape as 'love' in Matthew 24:12.
Remember, we said earlier there are two ways to approach God's Word: doubt or faith.
When I first read this, I approached the Word in doubt. I did not understand why the word 'charity' was used in 1Co 13:13. In my position of doubt, I went to the Lord to ask him why He said 'charity'. I received NO insight. I received NOTHING. Total void.
This kept bothering me. Eventually I wearied of getting no response and I finally took the approach of faith. I said:
"Lord I KNOW you chose the word 'charity' for a REASON. I don't know why. Lord, you are not the problem, I am the problem. I just don't understand. As your Word says; please give me wisdom and 'upbraideth me not'".
At that moment of faith; the Lord gave me insight into His Word:


Man made definitions in lexicons are corrupt.


In effect, the men who write lexicons are saying: "Yea, hath God said?" And these same men then say: "God did not say the English words that are in your King James Bible, what God really meant was ....".
Then the 'counterfeit' is given to the Christian.
Lexicons are subtle and devious in their methodology. G.A. Riplinger believes we should rename them: "Lucifer's Lexicons" .


27:4 C O N F U S I O N
The Bible says God IS NOT the author of confusion. (1Co 14:33)
Since 'modern versions' dis-agree among themselves, and since this is causing confusion in the Church; I believe we can conclude that these books ( i.e. new versions ) are NOT from God.
And, if they are not from God, they must be from Satan.

I have little faith that this information will help you because I am now under the impression that you have your own agenda and defending God and his word is not on the list. You seem to want to take the side of those who would deceive. I hope and pray that I am wrong.

I only write these messages to defend God’s word, hoping to help someone along the way who is sincerely seeking to please God only.

In Jesus’ name.




 
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ed
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12.171.181.119

Praise!

May 11 2005, 9:54 AM 

Dearest seekingtopleaseGodonly,

I am so thankful for a person like you who is willing to stand up for what is right. My home church is in the same boat many of these churches are in and I do not know what to do. Our preacher has begun to read from the NIV from the pulpit and also has "The Message" in his office. I am afraid for what we stand for and that it will be corrupted by this FALSE bible. He doesn't seem to listen when I tell him that Paul used the King James Version and therefore if it is good enough for him then it should be for us as well. He tells me the Greek is the only true text, is he correct about this? I need to know, there are many in our congregation that are worried about this "Message" he keeps in his office. What kind of pagan things does this bible have to say. I am so scared for the Lord's Church. So many are falling because the translation they are using is not the KJV, inspired and written by God. How can I defend the false teachers in my church. I hope that you or the saint of a man Ken can give some good answers. I have been reading some of the post on this site and need to know where to look to find all the answers about the KJV. I know it is the only text used in the bible by the disciples, Paul used it, and God wrote it. But what about this Greek stuff? What about the OT, did Jesus have a KJV? IS that he used to quote to the people? Please let me know how I can find the answers to these questions. Our preacher is going to flip when I prove that Paul used the KJV when he preached in ACTS! Thanks for the help and remember to keep up the wonderful work of the Lord

ED

 
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Ken Sublett
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63.84.81.3

Praise to YOU too?

May 11 2005, 11:34 AM 

Ken is not a KJVer only. However, it is a fact that the NIV is sadly mistaken in many places. However, the KJV committee would recommend comparing various versions. When people radically introduce the NIV it is most likely that it teaches WHAT THEY already believe.

So, I post lots about the use of 1 Peter 3:21 to try to prove that instead of Baptism being A REQUEST to God, Max would say that baptism is AFTER we have received A holy spirit and is OUR PLEDGE to do our part of the bargain to be GOOD GUYS. When Max and others PLEDGE the meaning is that THEY HAVE SOMETHING to put in PAWN.

In the other 58 times the NIV translates the word to be ASKING rather than TELLING God that you GOT that salvation by just looking up and saying: "Wow!."

The NIV uses the word MUSIC which no scholar would add to the SPEAKING passages which are not related to SINGING as in MUSIC.

I use the KJV otherwise I would be TRYING to disturb people as part of the postmodern need to induce SCHIZOPHRENIA before they can change them into THEIR OWN IMAGE. This is no accident: they plan to drive the old people up the wall and out of THEIR OWN BUILDINGS. They BOAST about it. Most people will accept the KJV as having been TESTED wherease the AGENTS OF CHANGE will preach from ANY trash which fits THEIR twisted minds. It is never POSSIBLE to use the NIV as authority without knowing that you are SOWING DISCORD among a part of the congregation. In postmodernism, SOWING DISCORD is now a tool of "saving more souls."

Secondly, I use the KJV because it is not subject to infringment.

Thirdly, the KJV is more literal than most and where it uses archaic words I trust that ANY disciple will be literate enough to grasp older words which are still in the dictionaries. If a word needs explaining then the CONTEXT rules.

Fourthly, it has had the BLACKSMITHS (Cabiri) beat on it for many years and the typos have been hammered out without altering its language or trustworthyness.

Sometimes I see an error in the NIV or other version, check on the KJV and see that indeed the KJV had the same meaning but the problem was with ME.

As long as the MODERN words are not just taking liberties but fit the meaning of the context and leave the OLD meanings alone, if I have problems at this time I will grow and try to understand the words in terms of the CULTURE in which it was written rather than as Rubel and John do, make the Bible fit OUR CULTURE. If it turns out that the preacer--as usual--is just being faddish to put the focus on HIM then I have lost contact completely with the original.

Ed, do you have your tongue in checque?

Ken

 
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seekingtopleaseGodonly
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69.151.244.12

Praise God

May 14 2005, 9:19 AM 

Ed,

I appreciate all the nice things you have written; all praise be to God above.

There are many, many sites that you can visit to get excellent information to show that these “modern bibles” are full of corruptions. These perverted books were purposely written to deceive those who are trying to live for Jesus and obey God’s Word.

I commend you for being able to see thru the mass deception and confusion that has trapped so many brothers and sister in Christ. May God continue to bless you and all who are sincerely seeking to find an answer to this sad and shameful problem.

I will post a response shortly called “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” in order to list some things that can be done in these situations.

I pray that it will be of some value to you.


In Jesus name

 
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B
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65.71.152.113

Re: Praise God

May 15 2005, 7:55 AM 

I'll try now for the THIRD time to make this post.

First, Ed, I truly hope that your post was in jest. If you genuinely believe Paul and Jesus used the KJV, open yours and take a look at the dates in the front. Since it was published in 1611, they probably didn't read from it.

Second, seeking, it's interesting that you completely ignored that part of ed's post.

Third, seeking, would you care to respond to the actual content of my last post. What do you think about the problems in the KJV of those verses? Can you see that in some verses, other translations might be closer to the original? (By the way, I did not use the Westcott & Hort text, although I have a feeling you're only recycling that argument from another source.)

Fourth, when the "Word of God" is referred to in scripture, it is not specifically referring only to the KJV (just as it would not have to a Christian in 1237 A.D.).

Please, restrain from the NIV name calling and give your reaction to those particular verses in my last post.

 
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seekingtopleaseGodonly
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69.151.244.12

Men and brethren, what shall we do?

May 15 2005, 1:13 AM 

Men and brethren, what shall we do?

There are some who are asking for help on what to do when they suspect that their congregation is being taken over by the change artists.


First let me say that there is no easy answer. This situation is being carried out by a group of people in high places. The efforts and tactics of this organization seem to give meaning to these following verses:



Eph:6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.



Here are some things that we as Christians can do to fight the good fight of faith in this situation.


1. Pray

Pray for your congregation and all bodies of Christ that are facing this evil effort to overtake the Lord's Church. Pray that the Word of God will prevail therein. Also pray for guidance from above that God may lead us in the way that we should go.

1Th:5:17: Pray without ceasing.
1Pe:3:12: For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
2Th:3:1: Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:


2. Study

We must study so that we will not be fooled by the subtle and deceptive ways of Satan; We must understand that Satan has attacked the Word of God from the beginning in his efforts to lead us away from God. By changing his Word(adding and subtracting from it) and enticing us with the vanities and pleasures of this world, Satan lures us into sin and disobedience.

Ge:3:1: Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Ge:3:2: And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Ge:3:3: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Ge:3:4: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


Remember Satan is a liar, and those who are leading the efforts to take over Christ's Church are liars. Like in the passage above in many instances Satan begins with small changes (he only added one additional word to what God had said, the word not) and then builds upon these changes.

God cannot lie. When you find lies in these modern bibles (such as in M'r:1:2) than you know they are not of God. We must have the pure Word of God or we will be led astray. Utilize The Ultimate Bible Test (http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=187120&messageid=1114318811)
to prove the whether are not a modern bible is of God. God has provided us a way to test the spirits, whether they be of God or whether they be of a deceiver and/or an antichrist. You will see that these modern bibles cannot pass this test because they are not inspired by the Holy Spirit.

We must learn of him to be able to teach others of him, and in order to truly learn of him we must begin we his true Word.



2Tm:2:15: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Ac:17:11: These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.



We must study and study often so that we will be ready to answer and to defend the Lord's Church.

There are many, many web sites that are available to learn about the history of the Word of God.


Here are some links for educational study purposes on the history of the King James Translation (again these are only for educational purposes, I do not endorse any doctrinal statements of these sites):

Modern Bibles weaken God's Promise to Preserve His Word
http://aliveinchrist040801.tripod.com/nopreserv.htm

Your Bible questions answered.
http://www.chick.com/search/searchask/questionans.asp

ABOUT THE KING JAMES PAGES
http://www.holybible.com/resources/about_kjv.htm

Why should I use the King James translation?
http://www.chick.com/ask/articles/ans001.asp

INTRODUCTION TO THE TRANSLATION
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/transtoc.htm#toc

A Brief History of the King James Bible
http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html

The King James Controversy:
A Biblical View
http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/king.htm

"SPIRITUAL DECEPTION IN THE HIGHEST"
http://www.concernedmembers.com/spiritualdeception.htm

ANOTHER BIBLE ~ ANOTHER GOSPEL
http://watch.pair.com/another.html

Bible Version Issue
http://www.biblebelievers.com/BibleVersions.html

THE AV 1611: Purified Seven Times (interesting)
http://www.biblebelievers.com/Vance5.html

The New King James Counterfeit
http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html


3. Teach

2Tm:2:24: And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Tm:4:3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;



Print or copy information that you think will be useful and discuss it with others who are seeking to please God.


4. Fight

1Tm:6:11: But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Tm:6:12: Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.


Stand up for Jesus. Utilize this site and any other means that you find appropriate to get the word out to as many as possible.

This corruption in the Church cannot survive unless it has the perverted modern versions such as the NIV, NASB, NKJV, and others to back-up its deceptive practices. This site is a powerful tool that can be utilized to inform the masses. Tell members of your congregation about this site and invite as many as possible to join in the discussions.


5. Preach

Preach the Word of God. Encourage others to stand up for God's Word and(his) Church. Rebuke those who continue to error in doctrine.

2Tm:4:2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Jas:4:7: Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas:4:8: Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Eph:6:10: Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph:6:11: Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph:6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph:6:14: Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph:6:15: And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph:6:16: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph:6:17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph:6:18: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph:6:19: And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph:6:20: For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.


6. Shine

Be a good example to others who are in your situation by letting your light so shine before men.

M't:5:14: Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
M't:5:15: Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
M't:5:16: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

7. Do all in name of the Lord.

Never forget who we are fighting for; we can not fight this battle alone. We must enlist the powers from above and do all in the name of the Lord.

Col:3:16: Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Col:3:17: And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.




May God bless you all.

In Jesus name.


 
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seekingtopleaseGodonly
(Login seekingtopleaseGodonly)
69.151.250.151

Re: Bammel Church of Christ in Houston, Tx

May 22 2005, 4:17 PM 

Re: B.


You were answered.


Read the post again, you were answered.

I know that you are NIV positive (NIV = New Ignorance Version). You need to check in with the good Doctor above before it is too late. You are in danger of acquiring full blown AIDS (Acquired Ignorance Disease Syndrome).

Please get some help; and this time seek help from above, not below.

Why do you insist on defending one of Satan’s favorite books.

Do you think that Jesus would defend The NIV?

The NIV calls Jesus and Lucifer by the same name! This was not done by mistake. It was done on purpose by the people who wanted to disrespect the Lord.

Does that fact even make a difference to you?

Hello! Wake up!

Which side are you on, God’s side or Satan’s?

If you want to be on God’s side, then start standing up for God and his Word.



Re: B.

1 Peter 4:1 - Flesh/body - Do you find such a different meaning in these two that is has caused your walk with God to suffer? Body is simply a more modern term for flesh.


You know, it is really a shame that I have to explain the difference between the two words body and flesh. It just seems so elementary. I mean, do you remember when you were about 3 or 4 years old and you mommy taught you how to recognize the parts of your body. It might have went a little something like this –

Ok little B., today we are going to learn the parts of your body. This is your eye, this is your mouth, these are your ears, these are your teeth, these are your little feet, and these are your little bitty legs. These are all PARTS of your BODY. She could have went on to say that your body is made up of FLESH, BONES, HAIR, BLOOD, NAILS, AND WATER, AND CERTAIN OTHER THINGS. Little B., If you are confused than let me know and mommy will try to explain in simpler terms. Ok?

I should not have to explain the different between body and flesh to you.

But if you still think that these two words have the same meaning then do not stop there. Why don’t you change the word FLESH into the word BODY where ever you find the word FLESH in the Bible? For example, replace the word BODY for FLESH in the following verses:


1Co:12:12: For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co:12:13: For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co:12:14: For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co:12:15: If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co:12:16: And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co:12:17: If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co:12:18: But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body., as it hath pleased him.
1Co:12:19: And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co:12:20: But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co:12:21: And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co:12:22: Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
1Co:12:23: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
1Co:12:24: For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
1Co:12:25: That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
1Co:12:26: And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
1Co:12:27: Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.



Now substitute the word flesh in place of the word body in the following verses. (Since you are under the impression that the word Body is simply a more modern term for flesh then it should make no difference here)



Eph:5:30: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Col:1:24: Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:





I speak English.

I am sure that God has provided inspired translations in many different languages. How else can God hold us responsible for living by every Word of God if he did not provide us with his inspired Word in a language that we could read and understand? Do you think that God expects every one to learn the ancient Greek and Hebrew languages? Do you think that God expects us to read and speak them as if they were our native tongue? Do you think that everyone has access to the original Hebrew and Greek scriptures?

Oh ye of little faith! But I am not surprised that you are lacking faith in God because you choose to use Satan’s substitutes. When you don’t have God’s true Word, your faith in God’s abilities will suffer. Without faith in God, it is impossible to please him.

Ro:10:17: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Heb:11:6: But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.



It does not matter what language the Word of God is translated into. There are bibles translated in many, many languages. God can inspire his Word in any language that he sees fit, including English.

Yes, believe it or not, God is that great!

I believe that when someone is sincerely seeking the truth, they will find it; and when they find it, they will know it, no matter what language form it is in. The truth is the truth and a lie is a lie.


Joh:8:32: And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Corruption is corruption, even if you think it is only a little corruption. It messes up the whole Book.

1Co:5:6: Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
Re:22:18: For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:


When we hear God’s Word, some of us will know it, but unfortunately, some of us won’t.

Joh:10:27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

By the way, don’t worry about Ed, he will find the truth about the King James translation if he is sincerely seeking it.

In Jesus name.


 
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seektopleaseGodonly
(Login seekingtopleaseGodonly)
70.240.69.147

The NIV is put to THE ULTIMATE BIBLE TEST!

June 4 2005, 11:13 PM 

The NIV is put to THE ULTIMATE BIBLE TEST!

Can the NIV pass The Ultimate Bible Test?

The Ultimate Bible Test is a tool that can be used to test the multitude of so-called "modern bibles" that have been so widely circulated throughout the world.

We will put the NIV to the test to see if it can make the statement that "Jesus Christ is coming in the flesh".

Let us see if it can PASS the test!




In the Flesh – The Ultimate Bible Test

2Jo 1:7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Test your “modern bible” (i.e. NIV, NKJV, RSV, LB, NASB…) to see if it was written by the inspiration God (2 Tim. 3:16) or by the inspiration of “a deceiver and an antichrist”; If we desire to please God we must have the pure Word of God. May the Holy Spirit guide you in all truth. If the words of the “modern bible” that you use were written by the inspiration of “a deceiver and an antichrist”, then it will not be able to state that “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh” (present tense). Always look for subtle additions, subtractions, and errors that lead to contradictions and confusions. Remember 1Co 14:33, For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints and 1Jo:4:1: Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Instructions (Pray for guidance, read the following rules, begin the test strictly applying these rules)
The following 7 Bible verses are found in the King James Translation. Check your “modern bible” for these scriptures and see if the version that you are using can pass the test. The part of the verse that states that “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh” is underlined. Check to see if the scripture in your “modern bible” correctly states that “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.”(It must show PRESENT tense – it cannot read as PAST tense – it must state “IN THE FLESH” [not in his body; “body” and “flesh” do not have the same meaning]); if it does not state it correctly, it fails the test and cannot be considered (in any way) the pure WORD OF GOD according to 1 Jo 4:3.



Now we will examine each of the 7 verses to see if the NIV can pass the test.

Let us begin:




1. Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:




KJ Translation - Romans 8:3 in the flesh = IN THE FLESH

Results for KJ vs. #1 – PASSED! NIV - Romans 8:3

So he condemned sin IN SINFUL MAN = …his own Son …condemned sin IN THE FLESH

Results for NIV vs. # 1 – FAILED!

(Note: The NIV has changed the told concept of the verse. It is stating that Christ condemned sin IN SINFUL MAN. It does so in order to avoid saying what an antichrist cannot say, and that is that JESUS CHRIST IS COME IN THE FLESH.
What is so special about condemning sin in sinful man, we all do that from time to time. IN THE FLESH is defined as: IN PERSON. Again we see the words inspired by a deceiver and an antichrist dance around stating what the King James has no problem stating that JESUS CHRIST IS COME IN THE FLESH.
Coincidence you say? What’s the big deal? I believe Satan would have that same response! He wants us to think that this is no big deal, but true seekers of the truth will not fall for that. We know it is a BIG, BIG deal!)

2. 1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.



KJ Translation - 1Timothy 3:16

in the flesh = IN THE FLESH

Results for KJT vs. #2– PASSED!


NIV - 1Timothy 3:16

He appeared in a body = GOD was manifest IN THE FLESH

Results for NIV vs. #2– FAILED!

(Note: The NIV states: He[c] appeared in a body,[d] and than in footnotes below brings in question whether or not if God himself was the one who was manifest IN THE FLESH. It is also footnotes that IN THE BODY as OR IN THE FLESH. There are at least two problems with doing what the NIV does in this instance:

(1). Body and Flesh do not have the same meaning.

A body has many members such as: arms, legs, head, and so on… A BODY is made of FLESH. FLESH is defined as: the soft tissues primarily muscle and fat, that cover the bones of people and other animals. (According to Encarta Dictionary: English (No. Amer.), the phrase “in the flesh” means: “in person”.)

(2). FOOTNOTES or NOT the Word of God!

Footnotes are the words of the translator or writer. They are not the inspired words of God. )




3. 1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:



KJ Translation - 1Peter 3:18 Christ …suffered for sins…being put to death in the flesh

in the flesh = IN THE FLESH

Results for KJ vs. #3 – PASSED


NIV - 1Timothy 3:16

18. Christ died for sins…He was put to death in the body…

IN THE BODY = IN THE FLESH

Results for NIV vs. #3– FAILED!

(Note: Body and Flesh do not have the same meaning. A body has many members such as: arms, legs, head, and so on… A body is made of flesh. According to Encarta Dictionary: English (No. Amer.), the phrase “in the flesh” means: “in person”)




4. 1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;



KJ Translation - 1Peter 3:16 in the flesh = IN THE FLESH

Results for KJ vs. #4– PASSED!



NIV - 1Timothy 3:16

in his body = IN THE FLESH


Results for NIV vs. #4- FAILED!

(Note: Body and Flesh do not have the same meaning. A body has many members such as: arms, legs, head, and so on… A body is made of flesh. According to Encarta Dictionary: English (No. Amer.), the phrase “in the flesh” means: “in person”. Also see notes from #2 above)





5. 1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:




KJ Translation - 1John 4:2

is come (present tense) = IS COME (present tense)

Results for KJ #5- PASSED!

NIV - 1John 4:2 states :

Jesus Christ has come in the flesh = Jesus Christ is come in the flesh

has come (past tense) = IS COME (present tense)


Results for NIV #5- FAILED! (Note: Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, he is not dead. He was received up into glory in the flesh and will return in like manner – Acts 1:11). The word “is” is the third person singular present tense of "be". The word "be" is defined as: to exist; have life or reality; to occupy a position. (The American Heritage Dictionary) The word "has" is defined as: the third person singular of the word “have”. The word “have” is defined as: to be in possesion of; own. The phrase "has come" also implies past tense.)


6. 1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.




KJ Translation 1Jo 4:3


Jesus Christ is come in the flesh = Jesus Christ is come in the flesh


Results for KJ #6– PASSED!

NIV - 1John 4:3 states:

Jesus = Jesus Christ is come in the flesh

Results for NIV #6– FAILED!

(Note: the NIV has taken away “Christ is come in the flesh”. The only Word left is the word “Jesus”. God strictly forbids anyone (including NIV scribes) for taking away from his Word. This is again not surprising because a deceiver and an antichrist cannot state that “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh” according to 2JO 1:7.)





7. 2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.




KJ Translation 2Jo 1:7

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. = For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

Results for KJ #7– PASSED!

NIV - 2John 1:7 states:


Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh = For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

Results for NIV #7– FAILED!

(Note: What exactly does AS COMING mean? Does it mean that will eventually come sooner or later? Jesus Christ IS come! He IS presently reigning as KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS!
We must keep in mind that Jesus never died a second death. He was taken up; and a cloud received him out of the apostles site.

AS COMING does not equal IS COME.
)







So we see how the NIV is again using the practice of deception to avoid making the statement that JESUS CHRIST IS COME IN THE FLESH!

In all seven verses it dances around making the confession that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

It could not even make that full statement once!

Now the question has to be WHY?

Why is it that the NIV which claims to be the inspired words of God could not confess the statement that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?

Why?

Because it is inspired by a deceiver and an antichrist!

The word of God can not lie! 2 John 1:7 tells us how to recognize a spirit of an antichrist and the NIV gives us a prime example of that spirit in action!

You can search the whole book and you will never see the NIV make this statement or confession correctly!

Why?


1Jo:4:1: Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo:4:2: Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo:4:3: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jo:4:4: Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo:4:5: They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo:4:6: We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.


God has made a way for us to determine whether or not something is inspired by him. It is up to us to apply his wisdom and his knowledge.

We can choose to be lead by the Holy Spirit or we can choose to continue to use and promote deception.

Choose Jesus


Joh:8:31: Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh:8:32: And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh:8:36: If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.


In Jesus name.






Does your Bible translation(s) pass the test?

The Ultimate Bible Test was written by Nason L. Melton


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 68.19.233.107 on Feb 25, 2006 11:53 AM


 
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B
(no login)
70.238.52.123

Timeless

March 9 2006, 6:29 PM 

I am even more amazed at this "test" as I read it months later. The NIV should be considered from Satan because it uses the word "body" instead of "flesh"? What is the body made of again?

And #5 is simply wrong. The Greek word is a participle. Literally it would be "having come", but that doesn't fit as well into English. "Has come" is an accurate translation.

 
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David Rhoades
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70.149.155.146

Re: Timeless

March 9 2006, 7:14 PM 

Excuse me "B". Would you mind taking the test for the spirit of the anit-christ.

Can you say "JESUS CHRIST IS COME IN THE FLESH"?

 
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seekingtopleaseGodonly
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69.151.240.1

Satan must be proud of you "B"

March 10 2006, 1:32 AM 

Re: timeless

“B”,

I see you still choose to use and promote deception. I agree with David. I would like to see you pass the “test” too!

BTW, the words “has” and “is” can not be translated from the same Greek word. One word (the word “has”) is in a past tense form and the other (the word “is”) is in a present tense form. Both translations cannot be correct.

One of the two words is incorrectly translated.

Number 5 on The Ultimate Bible Test is correct.

The words body and flesh are not equivalent. I have already explained the differences to you in a previous post. But since you still don’t get it, here is part of that original post again.

Please read it this time!




Re: B.

I know that you are NIV positive (NIV = New Ignorance Version). You need to check in with the good Doctor above before it is too late. You are in danger of acquiring full blown AIDS (Acquired Ignorance Disease Syndrome).

Please get some help; and this time seek help from above, not below.

Why do you insist on defending one of Satan’s favorite books?

Do you think that Jesus would defend The NIV? The NIV calls Jesus and Lucifer by the same name! This was not done by mistake. It was done on purpose by the people who wanted to disrespect the Lord.

Does that fact even make a difference to you?

Hello! Wake up!

Which side are you on, God’s side or Satan’s?

If you want to be on God’s side, then start standing up for God and his Word.



Re: B.

1 Peter 4:1 - Flesh/body - Do you find such a different meaning in these two that is has caused your walk with God to suffer? Body is simply a more modern term for flesh.


You know, it is really a shame that I have to explain the difference between the two words body and flesh. It just seems so elementary. I mean, do you remember when you were about 3 or 4 years old and you mommy taught you how to recognize the parts of your body. It might have went a little something like this –

Ok little B., today we are going to learn the parts of your body. This is your eye, this is your mouth, these are your ears, these are your teeth, these are your little feet, and these are your little bitty legs. These are all PARTS of your BODY. She could have went on to say that your body is made up of FLESH, BONES, HAIR, BLOOD, NAILS, AND WATER, AND CERTAIN OTHER THINGS. Little B., If you are confused than let me know and mommy will try to explain in simpler terms. Ok?

I should not have to explain the different between body and flesh to you.

But if you still think that these two words have the same meaning then do not stop there. Why don’t you change the word FLESH into the word BODY where ever you find the word FLESH in the Bible? For example, replace the word BODY for FLESH in the following verses:


1Co:12:12: For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co:12:13: For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co:12:14: For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co:12:15: If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co:12:16: And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co:12:17: If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co:12:18: But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body., as it hath pleased him.
1Co:12:19: And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co:12:20: But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co:12:21: And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co:12:22: Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
1Co:12:23: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
1Co:12:24: For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
1Co:12:25: That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
1Co:12:26: And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
1Co:12:27: Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.



Now substitute the word flesh in place of the word body in the following verses. (Since you are under the impression that the word Body is simply a more modern term for flesh then it should make no difference here)



Eph:5:30: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Col:1:24: Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:





I speak English.

I am sure that God has provided inspired translations in many different languages. How else can God hold us responsible for living by every Word of God if he did not provide us with his inspired Word in a language that we could read and understand? Do you think that God expects every one to learn the ancient Greek and Hebrew languages? Do you think that God expects us to read and speak them as if they were our native tongue? Do you think that everyone has access to the original Hebrew and Greek scriptures?

Oh ye of little faith! But I am not surprised that you are lacking faith in God because you choose to use Satan’s substitutes. When you don’t have God’s true Word, your faith in God’s abilities will suffer. Without faith in God, it is impossible to please him.

Ro:10:17: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Heb:11:6: But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.



It does not matter what language the Word of God is translated into. There are bibles translated in many, many languages. God can inspire his Word in any language that he sees fit, including English.

Yes, believe it or not, God is that great!

I believe that when someone is sincerely seeking the truth, they will find it; and when they find it, they will know it, no matter what language form it is in. The truth is the truth and a lie is a lie.


Joh:8:32: And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Corruption is corruption, even if you think it is only a little corruption. It messes up the whole Book.

1Co:5:6: Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
Re:22:18: For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:


When we hear God’s Word, some of us will know it, but unfortunately, some of us won’t.

Joh:10:27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


In Jesus name.




 
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B
(no login)
70.238.52.123

Re: Satan must be proud of you "B"

March 10 2006, 11:33 AM 

Well, if you want to repost last year's debate, I suppose I can do that too. The word for come in that verse is still a participle, and neither "is" or "has" gives the complete meaning of the word. "Having come" would be closer than either one.




As for your test above:

Romans 8:3 - I actually think the KJV is better than the NIV on this verse. I haven't checked other versions yet. I'm not a big fan of the term "sinful nature" that the NIV uses, although it is frequently an accurate thought.

1 Timothy 3:16 - I'm not sure why the NIV uses "body" instead of "flesh". It doesn't seem to affect the meaning either way. I'm not sure if you have an issue with the "taken up" versus "received up". I'm guessing you do by the underscore. The root word is "lambano" which can mean either take or receive. The "ane" prefix (from ana) adds "up" to the meaning.

I Peter 3:18 - You don't have this underlined, but the KJV uses the word "suffered" while the KJV uses the word "died". Although we all know that Christ did suffer, the Greek apethanev (from apothnasko) is usually translated he died. Funny that one wasn't underlined, don't you think? Flesh/body - already covered in 1 Timothy 3:16.

1 Peter 4:1 - Flesh/body - Do you find such a different meaning in these two that is has caused your walk with God to suffer? Body is simply a more modern term for flesh.

I John 4:2 - The true translation of elaluthota is "having come". It is a perfect participle. Since that doesn't make for sound English (and neither the KJV nor the NIV uses a participle), has come is actually closer to the meaning than is come.

I John 4:3 - The word flesh (sarkos) is not in the Greek! Neither is the "in the" that precedes it in the KJV. Research this before you assume the guy who wrote this is right. The NIV is dead on in this verse. It's ironic that versions that don't "pass the test" cannot be considered as the word of God according to this verse, when the KJV adds words that aren't even there.

II John 2:7 - The word for come, erchomenon, is a participle and is properly translated in the NIV.

 
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gst1980
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63.96.34.133

Re: Satan must be proud of you "B"

March 10 2006, 10:03 PM 

B,

Although I consider your posts regarding comparisons between the KJV and NIV to be insightful (and helpful to people like me), I can't help but wonder why you continue to "cast your pearls before swine," so to speak. I don't believe you'll ever be able to convince these people that the Lord didn't read from the KJV in the synagogue or speak in Old English when talking to the masses.

Still, I appreciate your comments and wish to thank you for your tactful demeaner on this board.

In Christ,

gst

 
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SeekingtopleaseGodonly
(no login)
69.151.240.1

A Case of Full Blown AIDS?

March 10 2006, 9:19 PM 

"B.",
I am afraid that you may have progressed to full blown AIDS (Acquired Ignorance Disease Syndrome). I don’t know if there is much hope for you. You should have trashed that NIV (New Ignorance Version) a long time ago.

I suggest that you take a large dose of the pure Word of God as frequently as possible and cut out all processed and unhealthy bible substitutes ( i.e. NIV, NASB, NKJV…). Those books are detrimental to your spiritual health.

I write this response to your latest post so that those who really want to know the truth will have a chance to learn the truth. I have little faith that it will do you any good. You are thoroughly entrenched on the side of Satan. Nevertheless, I continue to pray for you.


Your response:

Re "B."
I John 4:3 - The word flesh (sarkos) is not in the Greek! Neither is the "in the" that precedes it in the KJV. Research this before you assume the guy who wrote this is right. The NIV is dead on in this verse. It's ironic that versions that don't "pass the test" cannot be considered as the word of God according to this verse, when the KJV adds words that aren't even there.


Do you even know how the KJV was translated?

If you had done your own research faithfully WITHIN THE PURE WORD OF GOD then you would know (and believe) the following fact.


The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. (Psalm 12:6)

There is no way to go to YOUR Greek source and get the "words of the Lord purified seven times".

The wording of the King James Bible represents the labors of almost one hundred years of brilliant, believing, godly scholarship.

The translators of the KJ bible had a multitude of sources from which to draw from.

The follow passage is taken from [http://www.biblebelievers.com/Vance5.html]
[Visit that website for the entire passage.]
(B. be sure to read the entire passage before you response with something that is IGNORANT and/or DECEPTIVE)

THE AV 1611: Purified Seven Times

As any student of English Bible history knows, the Authorized Version of 1611 was not the first Bible to be translated into English. But even though hundreds of complete Bibles, New Testaments, and Scripture portions have been translated into English since 1611, it is obvious that the Authorized Version is the last English Bible; that is, the last English Bible that God "authorized."

The definitive list of Bibles that makes the Authorized Version the seventh Bible, thus fitting the description in Psalm 12:6 of the words of the Lord being purified seven times, is not to be found in the opinions of the many writers on the history of the English Bible. To the contrary, the definitive list is to be found in the often-overlooked details concerning the translating of the Authorized Version.

To begin with, the translators of the Authorized Version did acknowledge that they had a multitude of sources from which to draw from: "Neither did we think much to consult the Translators or Commentators, Chaldee, Hebrew, Syrian, Greek, or Latin, no nor the Spanish, French, Italian, or Dutch." ***The Greek editions of Erasmus, Stephanus, and Beza were all accessible***, as were the Complutensian and Antwerp Polyglots, and the Latin translations of Pagninus, Tremellius, and Beza. What we want, however, is a reference to English Bibles.

The translators also acknowledged that they had at their disposal all the previous English translations of the sixteenth century: "We are so far off from condemning any of their labors that travailed before us in this kind, either in this land or beyond sea, either in King Henry's time, or King Edward's (if there were any translation, or correction of a translation in his time) or Queen Elizabeth's of everrenowned memory, that we acknowledge them to have been raised up of God, for the building and furnishing of his Church, and that they deserve to be had of us and of posterity in everlasting remembrance." Although this statement of the translators refers to English Bibles, it is not specific as to exactly which versions.
The information we need is to be found, not in the translators' "The Epistle Dedicatory" or their "The Translators to the Reader," but in the "Rules to be Observed in the Translation of the Bible." These general rules, fifteen in number http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/transrul.htm , were advanced for the guidance of the translators. The first and fourteenth, because they directly relate to the subject at hand, are here given in full: "1. The ordinary Bible read in the Church, commonly called the Bishops Bible, to be followed, and as little altered as the Truth of the original will permit." "14. These translations to be used when they agree better with the Text than the Bishops Bible: Tindoll's, Matthews, Coverdale's, Whitchurch's, Geneva."

And thus we have our answer. The seven English versions that make the English Bibles up to and including the Authorized Version fit the description in Psalm 12:6 of the words of the Lord being "purified seven times" are Tyndale's, Matthew's, Coverdale's, the Great Bible (printed by Whitechurch), the Geneva Bible, the Bishops' Bible, and the King James Bible.

The Wycliffe, Taverner, and Douay-Rheims Bibles, whatever merits any of them may have, are not part of the purified line God "authorized," of which the King James Authorized Version is God's last one -- purified seven times.


Also check out http://www.wayoflife.org/otimothy/tl05000b.htm and pay close attention to the part that says - "Unless one has the capability in the biblical languages to correct the Old Masters, one is wise not to pretend to a level of scholarship that he does not possess. Be careful, friends."


The King was for appointing fifty-four learned men to this great and good work; but the number actually employed upon it, in the first instance, was forty-seven. Order was also taken, that the bishops, in their several dioceses, should find what men of learning there were, who might be able to assist; and the bishops were to write to them, earnestly charging them, at the king's desire, to send in their suggestions and critical observations, that so, as his Majesty remarks, "our said intended translation may have the help and furtherance of all our principal learned men within this our kingdom."
Seventeen of the translators were to work at Westminster, fifteen at Cambridge, and as many at Oxford. Those who met at each place were divided into two companies; so that there were, in all, six distinct companies of translators. They received a set of rules for their direction. http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/transrul.htm



So lay aside YOUR "Greek" references and stop trying to correct the labor of the masters!

You are not capable of correcting the works of so many able men that were appointed by a KING.

Who (or What) authorized you to correct those forty-seven men?


NEWS FLASH!!! The translators of the KJ Bible used more than one Greek edition to translate the Bible!!!!

Before you try to criticize the Word of God please know that God is wiser than you.

Your little corrections are not "purified seven times "
.

In Jesus’ name


 
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B
(no login)
70.238.52.123

Re: A Case of Full Blown AIDS?

March 11 2006, 9:35 PM 

"There is no way to go to YOUR Greek source and get the 'words of the Lord purified seven times'."


My "source" is the Greek New Testament. It pre-dates the KJV (if that matters to you).

The "authorized" was not stamped on the KJV by God Himself. It came in 1611, not the 2nd century. It was put on there by King James, to whom I hold no allegiance. I appreciate his desire to see the Bible translated into English, but his is not the only valid version out there.

If you could come up with an original thought rather than rehashing someone else's, would you like to tackle the actual content of my post rather than coming up with more clever acronyms?

 
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SeekingtopleaseGodonly
(no login)
69.151.240.1

A Case of Full Blown AIDS Confirmed!

March 12 2006, 1:56 AM 

Re. "B"

A Case of full blown "AIDS" Confirmed.

"B",

Sorry that your spiritual comprehension level will not allow you to understand my previous post.

(BTW, I thought the “clever acronyms” were original thoughts!)

Please get help quickly.

Get someone who is not spiritually-blinded to help you read that last
post and have them explain why your one Greek source (whatever that is) cannot compare to the multitude of sources that were used by the able men who were appointed to translate.

Ask them to explain the checks and balances that were put into place in order to produce the best possible translation.

Then have them explain how and why more than ONE GREEK Source was used to translate.


Keep this in mind. Your GREEK SOURCE IS NOT THE ORIGINAL compilation of writings by the early inspired writers!

Try to understand that the books of the bible were hand-written at different times by different inspired writers and then collected, COPIED and compiled into what we know as the Old and New Testaments at some point.


I know that this is hard for you to understand but try your best.


They say that “two heads are better than one”. Well how about at least 47 able heads compared to your one head?

Let's see - 47 able Scholars vs. “B” (hmmm...)

I'll stick with the work of the 47 Scholars.

Sorry B. - NO SALE....

47 able heads are better than one amateur head!


Remember; take heavy doses of the “pure” Word of God as frequently and faithfully as possible. Remove all impurities (NIV and all other “modern versions”) from your spiritual diet. If you are sincere in you efforts then a strong faith in God and faith in His ability to preserve his pure Word (like He said He would) should soon return.

I hope you recover soon.


In Jesus' name




 
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There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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