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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

It is? ... NOT!

March 2 2009, 3:30 PM 

No, it is not "legalistic."

The change agents call it "legalistic" only whenever their subversive, church-destructive left-wing-conspiracy agenda [as in the left-wing conspiracy in "politics"] being promoted and enforced are unwanted and rejected, and whenever they're caught in the act.

Rather, it is conservative -- as opposed to "liberal."

There is a colossal difference between what is "conservative" and what is "legalistic."

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Ken Sublett
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Re: It is? ... NOT!

March 2 2009, 3:46 PM 

These people are not liberals: they are ignorant liars taking captive and stealing for as their own money tree

The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful. Isa 32:5


........Nabal (h5036) naw-bawl'; from 5034; stupid; wicked (espec. impious): - fool (-ish, -ish man, -ish woman), vile person.
........Nabel (h5034) to wilt; gen. to fall away, fail, faint; fig. to be foolish... make vile, wither..
........Nebel (h5035) from 5034; a skin- bag for liquids (from collapsing when empty); hence a vase (as similar in shape when full); also a lyre (as having a body of like form): - bottle, pitcher, psaltery, vessel, viol

A GOOD LIBERAL does not TAKE anything:

........Nadiyb (h5081) naw-deeb'; from 5068; prop. voluntary, i. e. generous; hence, magnanimous;

........Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering. Ex.25:2

For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the Lord, make empty the soul of the hungry,
........and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail. Isaiah 32:6

........Villany is:

........Nebalah (h5039) neb-aw-law'; fem. of 5036; foolishness, i. e. (mor.) wickedness; concr. a crime; by extens. punishment: - folly, vile, villany.

The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right. Isa 32:7

........And the Lord said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish (vile) shepherd. Zech 11:15

............Instruments (h3627) kel-ee'; from 3615; something prepared, i. e. any apparatus (as an implement, utensil, dress, vessel or weapon): - armour ([-bearee]), artillery, bag, carriage, / furnish, furniture, instrument, jewel, that is made of, one from another, that which pertaineth, pot, / psaltery, sack, stuff, thing, tool, vessel, ware, weapon, / whatsoever.

........For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still:

............but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. Zech 11:16

he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.

But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand. Isa 32:8

Mike Armour set up Skillman Church of Christ to defend changing their name, adding instrumental music and adding women in all of the PRESIDE OVER roles assigned to senior males.

The word SILENCE speaking of women specificially point to all of the musical roles: if you SILENCE the women and effeminate then the PURPOSE DRIVING the church to let Jesus do the speaking will begin.

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(no login)


March 3 2009, 3:51 PM 

Okay, wait are we talking about Obama or the Church? I am all confused with this left wing theory and the liberal and conservative talk. So what you are saying is a Democrat uses instruments and a Republican doesn't? I am thumbing through the index in my Bible and nope I can't find Democrat or Republican anywhere. Hey what version are you using? Is it that new Red Blue Bible? I seem to remember hearing about that version. I think it says something like judge all you want and ignore that log in your own eye and God only loves Republicans and only preach to people who are members of your church forget the community. I thought they stopped printing that Red Blue Bible! You should sell it on Ebay I bet it would go for a buck or two!

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Who really uses musical instruments?

March 4 2009, 12:35 AM 


It is interesting to note that you mentioned Obama, Democrat, Republican, a Bible version and Ebay, etc., because I didn't. But that's good. I think you know the comparisons and contrasts.

Overall, I really like Ken Sublett's appropriate description of these people as not being "liberals: they are ignorant liars taking captive and stealing...." -- the same people who have come up with the term "legalism" whenever the pure, unadulterated gospel of Christ is taught and preached.

I have been doing a search for the words, or something similar to, "musical instruments" and they're nowhere to be found in the New Testament. No examples of the musical machines participating in the assembly of the New Testament saints -- wonder why?

Wait ... I've heard about Psalm 150. Of course, we know that the Christian saints are to "teach and admonish one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs." Oh ... a psalm ... like a religious poem in singable format? So, I get to compare:

(1) Psalm 23: Song Title: "The Lord's My Shepherd" -- There are different tunes to this song, but I think we're all familiar with Psalm 23. So, we sing it as "a psalm."

(2) Psalm 150: Has someone written the music to this "favorite psalm" of the subversive change agents in the brotherhood? [Well, it's really not a psalm -- it's just a chapter in the book of Psalms.]

The chapter is simply a list of musical instruments. Here it is: Praise him...

-- with the sound of the trumpet
-- with the psaltery
-- with the harp
-- with the timbrel and
-- dance [may not be an instrument]
-- with stringed instruments
-- with organs
-- upon the loud cymbals
-- upon the high sounding cymbals

Right!!! They're the lyrics. Create music, anyone? Which of these instruments is your favorite? Like them all? Use them all?

Wait ... I've heard about II Chronicles 29. Sorry, due to lack of time, I'm going to [must] list other items besides musical instruments. We don't want to miss any item, do we?

-- seven bullocks
-- seven rams
-- seven lambs
-- seven he goats
-- for a sin offering
-- the priests the sons of Aaron to offer them on the altar
-- killed the bullocks
-- the priests received the blood
-- sprinkled it on the altar
-- killed the rams
-- sprinkled the blood upon the altar
-- killed also the lambs
-- sprinkled the blood upon the altar
-- the he goats for the sin offering: the priests killed them
-- burnt offering
-- set the Levites with cymbals
-- psalteries
-- harps, according to the commandment of David
-- the Levites stood with the instruments of David
-- the priests with the trumpets
-- trumpets
-- the instruments ordained by David king of Israel
-- the singers sang
-- the trumpeters sounded
-- all this continued until the burnt offering was finished.

[32] And the number of the burnt offerings, which the congregation brought, was threescore and ten bullocks, an hundred rams, and two hundred lambs: all these were for a burnt offering to the LORD.

[33] And the consecrated things were six hundred oxen and three thousand sheep.

[34] But the priests were too few, so that they could not flay all the burnt offerings: wherefore their brethren the Levites did help them, till the work was ended, and until the other priests had sanctified themselves: for the Levites were more upright in heart to sanctify themselves than the priests.

[35] And also the burnt offerings were in abundance,with the fat of the peace offerings, and the drink offerings for every burnt offering. So the service of the house of the LORD was set in order.

[36] And Hezekiah rejoiced, and all the people, that God had prepared the people: for the thing was done suddenly.

Would anyone like to participate in that kind of an assembly?

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Ken Sublett
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March 4 2009, 1:59 PM 

At the FIRST ADVENT almost none of the CLERGY and RELIGIOUS PROFITEERS had a remote clue about Jesus: that is because they had proven that they were a VIPER GENERATION working as hard as they could to convert people to SATAN. As a result Jesus spoke to them in PARABLES specificially to keep the INSTITUTES running full force until the Baptized believers were REMOVED and the CHAFF blown away by a WIND (SPIRIT) to be separated to be BURNED UP.

There is no reason to believe that the INSTITUTES will not be involved in LYING WONDERS (the theatrical arts and crafts) and the people will just be happy-clappy not knowing that the LOCUSTS (Muses) had been turned loose to PUNISH where even nitwitties at that time understood that MUSIC is "setting lies to melodies to deceive the simple" and damage the soul of those who are not FIT for a SPIRIT DIMENSION.

When neither liberal nor conservative but the VIPERS John and Jesus warned about and the CROOKED RACE from which we are to save ourselves and NOT enable, appeal to the Old Testament (a shadow meaning a ghost or a covenant with death) the are ANTI-Christian prostitutes John called SORCERERS who had deceived the whole world.

It should not be surprising that neither Stephen nor the massed multitudes taken captive by that which prophecy and Paul warn against CANNOT grasp the horrors which they defend because music DOES by definition MARK the mind and one definition of the BEAST is females/effeminates "singing a NEW STYLE OF SONG." Like a Hitler this is to do a permant MIND WARP from which one cannot recover because they are not capable of understanding dlear text.

Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, f\
......figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch,
......and the star of your god Remphan,
......figures which ye made to worship them:
......and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
Acts 7:44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, he had appointed, speaking unto Moses,
......that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.
Acts 7:45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles,
......whom God drave out before the face of our fathers,
......unto the days of David;
Acts 7:46 Who found favour before God,
and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
Acts 7:47 But Solomon built him an house.
Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High
......dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

Now, you SHOULD expect that a preacher could grasp that and they PROBABLY DO even as Judas had a hidden understanding that he was Satan's agent--the son of perdition.

......Because they preach that Stephen MUST have been a liar, and the captives APPLAUD, you have to grasp that God has sent them a strong delusion using a STRONG DELUDER to force them to believe a lie and be damned BECAUSE they were not OF TRUTH.


Peter made it certain that those who DO NOT TEACH THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN is a MARK of a false teacher. Paul often proved that the pagan rituals involving music would be a MARK and one definition is "Zoe as the beast and female instructing principle" and another MARK is a "new style praise song." Plato warned that this was the MARK of those intending to change the laws.


When Paul demanded that the women be SILENT the purpose was "submission" which speaks of a STUDENT being SILENT while the TUTOR does the teaching. Because from the church in the wlderness to the church defined and practiced in the Bible and for several centuries is as synagogue or SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE there simple are no roles for rhetoric, ritual prayer, singing, playing instruments or any performing role.

Even in decent civil society the plague was self-seeking women believing in a matriarchal goddess (a holy whore), women and effeminate males (Paul calls them dogs or wolves) would be the only person believing that their body rituals called forth the gifts of the goddess even as their sexual powers brought children. One of the things always needing silencing when teaching was involved was to:


[A] SilenceMelos B. esp. musical member, phrase: hence, song, strain, meter, 2. music to which a song is set, tune, 3. melody of an instrument, phorminx d'au phthengoith' hieron

[B] Silence Phorminx Pthengoma Hieron
Phorminx a lyre especially the instrument of Apollo, Apollon

Homer Iliad 1.Then he poured wine for all the other gods from left to right, drawing forth sweet nectar from the bowl. And unquenchable laughter arose among the blessed gods, as they saw Hephaestus puffing through the palace. [600] Thus the whole day long till the setting of the sun they feasted, nor did their heart lack anything of the equal feast, nor of the beauteous lyre, that Apollo held, nor yet of the Muses, who sang, replying one to the other with sweet voices. But when the bright light of the sun was set, [605] they went each to his own house to take their rest, where for each one a palace had been built with cunning skill by the famedHephaestus, the limping god; and Zeus the Olympian, lord of the lightning, went to his couch, where of old he took his rest, whenever sweet sleep came upon him. [610] There went he up and slept, and beside him lay Hera of the golden throne.

The HOLY PROSTITUTES plagued Israel from beginning to the end because God had abandoned them to that practice .

[C] Silence Phthengomai, Od.10.228, of inanimate things, of a door, creak of thunder; of trumpets, of the flute, of the lyre, [of a melody claimed to be from god using Apollo's lyre] of an earthen pot, whether it rings sound or cracked, Pl.Tht.179d; ph. to clap with the hands, III. c. acc. pers., sing, or celebrate one aloud , Pi.O.1.36;

[D] Silence the temple prostitutes: Hieros I. illed with or manifesting divine power, supernatural, II. of divine things, holy, holy war, Nomos law of sacrifice Hierodoulos A temple slave, Nethinim, Especially of temple courtesans [PROSTITUTES] at Corinth and elsewhere and also of men.


Nethinims Probably "Gibeonites who tricked Joshua into sparing them (cf. Josh. 9). [the wineskin ploy] When their ruse was discovered it was decreed (Josh. 9:27) that they serve as hewers of wood and drawers of water for the community and the altar. Ezra 8:20 mentions the Nethinim whom David and his officials had set apart to attend the Levites...At Ugarit there was a class of cultic servitors called ytnm, one of whom has a name that appears in the list in Ezra 2:45-46. It is therefore possible that the Nethinim were an international guild skilled in cultic arts who attached themselves to Israel in an early period. Similar also to the Nethinim in function are the shirku, known from Neo-Babylonian documents.

Josephus knew that the Levites had destroyed Israel the first time and WERE READY to do it again:

6. Now as many of the Levites, (26) which is a tribe of ours, as were singers of hymns, persuaded the king to assemble a sanhedrim, and to give them leave to wear linen garments, as well as the priests

for they said thatthis would be a work worthy the times of his government, that he might have a memorial of such a novelty, as being his doing.

Nor did they fail of obtaining their desire; for the king, with the suffrages of those that came into the sanhedrim, granted the singers of hymns this privilege, that they might lay aside their former garments,

and wear such a linen one as they desired; and as a part of this tribe ministered in the temple,
he also permitted them to learn those hymns as they had besought him for.

Now all this was contrary to the laws of our country, which, whenever they have been transgressed, we have never been able to avoid the punishment of such transgressions.

When Jesus had graound the SOP, used only once, it had the same meaning as PSALLO.

The Judas Bag was "for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments" because Psalm 41 prophesied that Judas would try to triumph over Jesus. This was the same MUSICAL REJOICING which was outlawed for the Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness.

Maybe the wineskinner singers, betraying Jesus and acting as musicians in the holy place is the MARK and SOUND to stay awake and keep yur clothes with you.

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(no login)


March 4 2009, 3:30 PM 

Sounds a bit more engaging then the church I went to growing up. Let me throw a list at you.

1. Put on Sunday best, because we are better then someone who can't.
2. Go to class and let the brain washing begin. There to learn, nope just to memorize proof texting.
3. Go to the assembly and sit on the predetermined two front rows for the children. I am guessing so that the brain washing enters faster and we can be monitored by the elderly more efficently.
4. Men walk in their line and sit on the front pew.
5. The order of the ceremony begins.
6. Announcements
7. Sing a couple of songs
8. Lord's Supper. I know for a fact this is not how the Lord's Supper was done. Oh I forgot please take out your check books during it so we can give back a portion. Was I supposed to be thinking about Christ? OHHHHHH!
9. Song. ALL the versus.
10. Scripture reading. Usually short and gave no real punch.
* forgot another robotic prayer here.
11. Song. All Versus.
12. Sermon. Again more proof texting lessons. Never a charge to action. An original thought anyone?
13. Invitation Song. All eyes on the eisles will anyone step out and be branded a sinner, oh wait isn't everyone there a sinner? No? Okay I thought I read that somewhere. OH and STAND!
14. Annoucments Part 2! Wait you mean you didn't finish from before?
15 Closing song. Please stand! ALWAYS STAND! Maybe it will be uplifting! No Jesus Rose of Sharon, depressed again.
16. Closing prayer, anyone with an emotion for God? Nope.

Repeat EXACTLY for the rest of your life!

Now does this sound like a Church you would want to be apart of?

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Ken Sublett
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We add MORE when we do new still singing: a mark of the beast

March 4 2009, 7:15 PM 

1. Put on Sunday best, because we are better then someone who can't.
2. Go to class and let the brain washing begin. There to learn, nope just to memorize proof texting.
3. Go to the assembly and sit on the predetermined two front rows for the children. I am guessing so that the brain washing enters faster and we can be monitored by the elderly more efficently.
4. Men walk in their line and sit on the front pew.
5. The order of the ceremony begins.
6. Announcements
7. Sing a couple of songs: add a "worship team" of falsetto praise mediators in the holy place.
8. Lord's Supper. I know for a fact this is not how the Lord's Supper was done. Oh I forgot please take out your check books during it so we can give back a portion. Was I supposed to be thinking about Christ? OHHHHHH!
add humming and clapping by the worship team.
9. Song. ALL the versus. Sing "hallelujah" 20 times.
10. Scripture reading. Usually short and gave no real punch. female reader reading devotional poetry.
* forgot another robotic prayer here. same repeat 20 times lord, lords.
11. Song. All Versus.
12. Sermon. Again more proof texting lessons. Never a charge to action. An original thought anyone?reads verse 3.d to prove that instruments are coming but verse 3.a outlaws them.
13. Invitation Song. All eyes on the eisles will anyone step out and be branded a sinner, oh wait isn't everyone there a sinner? No? Okay I thought I read that somewhere. OH and STAND! More supporters go forward with sinner to cry and hug to prove their superiority.
14. Annoucments Part 2! Wait you mean you didn't finish from before?Woman announcing "women in rpeside over roles at 3 pm
15 Closing song. Please stand! ALWAYS STAND! Maybe it will be uplifting! No Jesus Rose of Sharon, depressed again.
More clapping to damage your startle reflex and INTRODUCE musical instruments one clap at a time."
16. Closing prayer, anyone with an emotion for God? Nope.Add lets love them into conversion friendship evangelism if they conform.

Costs another 100 G to PROCURE liberal preacher than conservative preacher.
Fire the deacons, hire best friends with lots of females for dunkin donut

A pox on both of them!

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Jimmy Joe
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For Stephen: The correct way to worship

March 15 2009, 11:07 PM 

I don't visit CM very much anymore as the activity has really diminished. It seems most of the action is on Faithsite although the redundancy gets kind of old after a while. However, I did enjoy the jousting between you and Mr. Sublett (Whiskeyneggs). I can relate to both of the descriptions depicted during a worship service. I think I have come up with a few steps to describe the correct way to worship. It's not as many steps as both of you described but here is what I came up with.
1. Move to small southern town. Hole-in-the-wall Tennessee will suffice.

2. Go down to creek, read the Bible that contains the books that were determined to be inspired due to being canonized. Read mythical books and the Apocrypha. Combine from all three to provide religious laws binding on mankind.

3. Return to house

4. Spend the next ten hours on the computer telling everyone what God really means as you are convinced that you are the only living person that understands God's word. Be sure to talk down to anyone that disagrees with anything you say as you know that your intellect is far above that of mortal man.

5. Nap

6. Go back to Step 2 and repeat.

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Ken Sublett
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Follow DAVID: saves on CLOTHING!

March 16 2009, 4:13 PM 

Jimmy Joe and all of the musicators love to appeal to David's naked dance with the boys and girls as their FOUNDATION GARMENT. They also love to use those "making self vile" Psalms as absolute proof that what David did as a king worshiping the starry host as a new form of worship IMPOSED beyond the Law of Moses when the elders HIRED themselves a king as a new Senior Preaching Person. God loves to fool fools and they cannot catch on to the fact that Jesus spoke in parables for the kings and priestly class to keep them ignorant even while the prophets were condemning them as robbers and parasites. THEY contrary to David wrote by the Spirit of Christ. If you worship with Jimmy Joe, here is the approved Davidic Choir and Dance robe:

[linked image]

Here is a PATTERNISM for next week's worship service (expensive hard bondage) while the CHRISTIANS are reverently preached the Word by READ IT.

Psa. 149:1 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.
Psa. 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
Psa. 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance:
........let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Praise is h1986 Halal source of LUCIFER.

[linked image]


H2342 chûl khool, kheel A primitive root; properly to twist or whirl (in a circular or spiral manner), that is, (specifically) to dance, to writhe in pain (especially of parturition) or fear; figuratively to wait, to pervert:bear, (make to) bring forth, (make to) calve, dance, drive away, fall grievously (with pain), fear, form, great, grieve, (be) grievous, hope, look, make, be in pain, be much (sore) pained, rest, shake, shapen, (be) sorrow (-ful), stay, tarry, travail (with pain), tremble, trust, wait carefully (patiently), be wounded.

Psa. 149:4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.
Psa. 149:5 Let the saints be joyful in glory:
........let them sing aloud upon their beds.

Jimmy Joe doesn't know that when his preachers say that there was nothing wrong with the worship condemned by Amos but a BAD MENTAL ATTITUDE they forget to tell you that both father and mother went into the same temple prostitute. David was before the temple but the singers and players playing around any sacrificial altar were prostitutes and Sodomites often permitted holy whores.

Because ALL of the prophets condemn the kings, priests and false "prophesiers" it is absolute fact that Amos condemns them for following in the paths of DAVID and using instruments or weapons of music.

Amos 6:3 Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near;
Amos 6:4 That
........lie upon beds of ivory,
........and stretch themselves upon their couches,
........and eat the lambs out of the flock,
........and the calves out of the midst of the stall;
Amos 6:5 That chant to the sound of the viol,
........and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David;

[linked image]

Note that Psalm 149 bed is derived from Leviticus 18:22 bed. That is what you DO when you are abandoned to worship the starry host: the Queen of Heaven, the mother of harlots.

Lev. 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

The translators into the GREEK knew all about David and the worship of Dionysus or Bacchus still conducted by the MEN Jesus called CHILDREN piping, singing and dancing.

Psal-tikos A. of or for harp playing, ps. organon a stringed instrument USED WITH A or secret worship, of the rites of Bacchus, Ekthusia, breaking out. Meaning the WRATH Paul put down by silencing the women and where no decent male would be outed by singing and playing instruments.

Phallikos, ê, on, of or for the phallos: to ph. (sc. MELOS) the phallic song, Phallikos, ê, on, of or for the phallos: to ph. (sc. MELOS) the phallic song, Means Acappella

David's LOVE can mean nothing else! When he went naked with the camp followers it is clearly noted as ACTING A FEMALE'S PART. That defines ALL of the Levites who "prophesied" with psalteries -- a woman's instrument.

This shout is similar to the "vocal and instrumental" rejoicing which is OUTLAWED for the Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness. Even Jimmy's retarded brother would not mumble when we meet to listen at the feet of Jesus?

H7442 rânan raw-nan' A primitive root; properly to creak (or emit a stridulous sound), 2. tremulous sound of a mast or pole "Shaken by the wind" also the sound of a torrent. Vibrate the voice TRILL which is the WOMEN'S sound of Halal above.

Sug-krousis , eôs, hê, collision, anemôn Thphr. Vent.53 ; hoplôn [Carnal Weapon] Onos.26.1 ; [atomôn], nephôn, Epicur.Ep.1p.8U., 2p.45U., cf. Diog.Oen.33; of ships, D.C.49.1; hiatus or concurrence, phônêentôn

........2. metaph., collision, conflict,
........II. in Music, rapid alternation of two notes, trill,
........III. Rhet., collision of contradictory statements,

........Phoneeis 2.musical, of the lyre, 3. of a song, sounding,Pi.O.9.2.

........Pindar, Olympian 9.[1] The resounding strain of Archilochus, the swelling thrice-repeated song of triumph, sufficed to lead Epharmostus to the hill of Cronus, in victory-procession with his dear companions. [5] But now, from the bow of the Muses who, shooting from afar, send a shower of such arrows of song as these on Zeus of the red lightning-bolt and on the sacred height of Elis, Arouse for them a clear-sounding path of song; praise wine that is old, but praise the flowers of songs [49] that are new.

Psallo spoke of shooting real arrows and LOVE ARROWS: both from Apollo or Apollyon.

Elelizô [epic lengthd. form of helissô]I. to whirl round, Od.
........2. to rally soldiers, Il.: Pass., hoi d' elelichthêsan id=Il.
........3. generally, to make to tremble or quake, . to tremble, quiver, wink.gif
........II. Mid. and Pass. to move in coils or spires, of a serpent,

Helisso whirl in th edance

Bacchae Chorus:


Where on Nysa, which nourishes wild beasts, or on Corycian heights, do you lead with your thyrsos the bands of revelers? [560] Perhaps in the deep-wooded lairs of Olympus, where Orpheus once playing the lyre drew together trees by his songs, drew together the beasts of the fields. [565] Blessed Pieria, the Joyful one reveres you and will come to lead the dance in revelry; having crossed the swiftly flowing Axius he will bring the [570] whirling Maenads, leaving Lydias, giver of wealth to mortals, the father who they say fertilizes the land of beautiful horses with [575] fairest streams.


Psa. 149:6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
........and a twoedged sword in their hand;
Psa. 149:7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen,
........and punishments upon the people;
Psa. 149:8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
Psa. 149:9 To execute upon them the judgment written:
........this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD. [Yah like Yo!]

If you visit piney creek at least the only thing you have to watch out for are bucks in rutting season. wink.gif

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(no login)

Jimmy Joe left out something

March 17 2009, 9:38 AM 

Jimmy Joe, on item #2 you left out that you must throw out any of the Psalms or other Divinely inspired writings that contradict your higher intellect-based conclusions. We can't have that lustful man-after-God's-own-heart mucking up our highly refined opinions with his war chants.


God bless

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Ken Sublett
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Why STRAIGHTS run for their lives

March 21 2009, 7:46 PM 

You need to to grasp that from Genesis to Revelation the Bible points to pagan religions to repudiate them and to define the synagogue or church in the wilderness for all decent and righteous people to come and learn of Christ the Spirit. Here is a bit of data which defines that which the Monarchy did when God abandoned them to worship the starry host.

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

The MARK which made many flee from your presence leaving all behind was the NEW WINESKIN theme including a New Style of Singing which is defined as one of the MARKS OF THE BEASTS.

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greta morrison
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Audio of Mike Armour At Oklahoma Christian's lectureship

June 13 2011, 12:14 AM

Listen to #2 Future Leadership in Ministry Challenges (of course, listen to all of them) but this one is interesting because he actually says how to create an "illusion of stability" that he calls "zones of stability. He tells his audience " if certain things remain stable "they will feel it is still their church and "we could make changes elsewhere." Isn't that absolutely amazing? He also says leaders can make "transformational changes behind the scenes yet on the suface it looks the same - nothing's changed. These people are treating the members of various Churches of Christ as a scientific study; they have collected data, examined the demographics, understand various groups" felt needs" and then wow - the transformed emergent church.

He also talks about "shepharding" He makes a big push as to why the congregation needs shepharding. He's treating the church as a corporation........I don't understand the lack of discernment in his audience. I would have jumped out of my chair and told him "it is Christ's Church not something to be manipulated and where's your Biblical support for anything you've said. This tape really takes you into the back room of the change-agent!

I would make copies of this little talk and if people don't believe what you are saying about "change agents" just listen to this audio with them. These individual churches that you write about that are now taken over by the emergent church might be interested in finding out they were played for fools and take back the building. This to me is not only an anathema to God but people like this could be convicted of fraud.

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(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Audio of Mike Armour At Oklahoma Christian's lectureship

June 13 2011, 6:15 PM 

Even in the beginning the "hostile takeover" planned to use "stealth" so that the "owners" could not catch on. This is not just a new form of "hermeneutic" but proof of a very vile, evil band of robbers have infiltrated most colleges and lots of churches. I have updated some comments by Rick Atchley.

Jesus identified the Pharisees etal as robbers and killers: This is the PATTERNISM which Rich Atchley was fed by the NACC to command HIM to say that Good commanded instrumental praise and in fact threatened people by saying they must not disobey and question it. Now, most disciples will know a false "angel of light" when they see and hear them but the masses can be taken captive.

Back in the 80s you could go to any major city, especially in the South,
......and you could find a progressive Church of Christ
......and if they would preach grace,
......and if they would put words on a screen,
and if they would let divorced people place membership, they would grow.
The generation of Boomers has enough denominational loyalty that theyre going to find the least legalistic Church of Christ they can find, and thats where theyre going to attend.

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
......They never heard the sermons we heard.
......They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
......We discipled our children to leave our Movement!

Theyre not leaving the kingdom of God, and Im not saying that so please hear me say,
......Im not placing the health of the Movement above the kingdom of God I
......want my kids to love Jesus, but I do think that Churches need to understand.
......If you look at most of the progressive Churches of Christ across the country,
......theyre plateaued. In fact, they are in decline.

They are older and smaller, and their kids are gone. Their kids have fond memories of growing up in that church. The church taught them about Jesus, but now they are somewhere else.

You know, when I hear some of those old arguments about music, because of my history, even though I disagree, at least I can connect the dots and see how you got there. My children dont even have the graph paper! An Afternoon with Rick Atchley and Chris Seidman, Part 4 (New Wineskins, September December 2010)

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greta morrison
(no login)

mike Armour at OCU

June 13 2011, 10:09 PM 

They want to change alot more than adding instrumental music. This is the road to the emerging church justice, mysticism, icons, church growth without the gospel, indoctrination, manipulation, universalism, blending with Catholicism and on and on and on. I really think this deception should be against the law.

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(no login)

Oh My

June 26 2011, 7:13 PM 

The women aren't supposed to teach the men so it would be wrong to have a woman to be their very own minister?
You would rather have it quiet enough to set up the "sleeping atmosphere?"
Yea, the problem isn't with the praise team or clapping. It is with those who don't want a change to their sacred four part harmony two song, one prayer, one song, communion, two songs, sermon, invitation song and closing prayer church. If you go beyond that sacred 12:00 noon time frame, you will be flogged.

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

One More False Teaching from Dave

June 26 2011, 8:10 PM 


I'm more and more convinced that you're really into going with "the winds of change." That's not good for an elder/ex-elder of a congregation of the church of Christ Jesus.

I wouldn't be surprised if there may be a woman who has more knowledge and understanding of Scripture in your congregation. Would you recommend, then, that this capable woman be your minister (over women and MEN) in your congregation?

The number of songs or the order of "worship" has NOTHING to do with the debate over changes in the church. Rather, it is over what the Scripture authorizes in regard to leadership in the church, teachings that are not Scripture-supported, etc.

What other scriptural teaching do you want or wish to CHANGE to YOUR VERSION?

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Tom Brite
(no login)

Re: One More False Teaching from Dave

July 1 2011, 10:05 AM 

I'm not sure why anyone who has attended Bammel Road for many years would suddenly become upset by "liberal" things taking place in the congregation. For decades (at least 40 years) Bammel Road has been one of the most "liberal" congregations in the brotherhood. They have allowed women to serve communion, make announcements and speak in front of the congregation for all of that time. I'm not sure why all of sudden this member has become upset at progressive events taking place in the congregation. Having a praise team seems pretty tame compared to the role that women have played in this congregation for such a long time.

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There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
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120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
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Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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