|February 3 2004, 10:43 AM |
I am worried less about The Thief on the Cross than The thief on the pulpit. 'no wat i mean?
The thief February 2 2004, 10:04 PM
If the thief on the cross did not need baptism to be saved then how did he get to paradise? Christ knew his heart and He knew the thief had faith. Christ, Himself, gave him the gift of faith. Faith in Christ alone saves. Baptism is done out of obedience to the command given by our Lord. It is reflecting the ability and desire to obey God. It is a symbol of the inward change of heart that the Lord has performed.
ALL who did not hear the gospel went into PARADISE. It had two areas: those who were not righteous (meaning that they did righteous things) and practiced social justice went into the side in Abraham's bosom. The wicked went into another "part." The thief didn't asked to be SAVED and Jesus didn't promise him salvation. During the time that God was out of the body, Christ went and preached to these people. The thief would have been on the good side. Baptism is for those who plan to live in DISCIPLESHIP to Jesus Christ: the thief did not need to be added to the church and educated until his death. Furthermore, one disposes of their property any way they choose PRIOR to their death. After their DEATH their will is carried out among the living. WE did not live with Jesus. And furthermore, the thief lived and died UNDER THE LAW of Moses.AND PLEASE DON'T MISS THE POINT: THE THIEF DIED FOR HIS OWN SINS ON THE CROSS. If you plead the thief then you reject the CROSS and the CHURCH which is Chris't BODY until we die.
What if someone repents and professes and is struck and killed by lightning and didn't get baptized? Was he saved? Not by your standards. You don't know the heart. Baptism is one of the first good works we do as a believer. Become a disciple and THEN be baptized.
I don't JUDGE hearts: My job is to understand the Bible and let others TOTALLY REPUDIATE BAPTISM because someone MIGHT be saved without baptism. It is not possible to be more legalistic and JUDGMENTAL where judgmental does not mean "test the spirits" but actually PUNISH people by driving them out of the "synagogue." If God decided to save all of the sinners and punish all of the Christians THAT STILL would not change one jot or tittle of the Bible. If God wants to make exceptions then let HIM make them and not let US make them and commit sin BEYOND REDEMPTION by tring to guess. It is POSSIBLE--since we do not know it all--that somewhere when you DROP a rock it will fly upward. But, just WHOOO are WEEEE to tell our children that it is safe to jump off the building? God and Paul said it: when you question the WORD God makes you DELUSIONAL.
MY mind simple will not GO THERE. If there are exceptions then I want to leave that in the hands of God. Good works is not the MEANS for getting into Christ: We get INTO Christ and His body by baptism ONLY (Gal 3) which is by FAITH ONLY which is by GRACE ONLY which is by the CROSS ONLY. What catches the fish: the fisherman, the pole, the line, the bobber, the bait, a hungry fish or the skill of the angler?
"It is finished." Nothing added, nothing taken away. Christ alone, by faith in Him alone! Then come the good works by Christ strength, not mine or yours which are filthy rags. If Christ atoning work on the cross needs my baptism to seal it then it it is not all of Christ. It would be our partnership. Hogwash!
Christ ATONED or RECONCILED all people to Himself at the cross. However, Paul's ministery was a ministry of RECONCILIATION by preaching the gospel. But, you would say (as Calvinists often do) "But, it is finished and if you tell people how to SIGN UP for the free gift then YOU are in partnership with God." Why is REPENTING less legalistic than baptism. If you are afflicted by booze peddlers it is MUCH HARDER to repent than to have someone dip you into water.
I think that YOUR view REFUSES to give even GOD IN CHRIST the FREE WILL to dispense His free Gifts to those who believe and are baptized. Jesus used a word which says that BELIEVETH NOT belongs to treacherous infidels who REFUSE to honor the SON and the SON honored the FATHER.
Only He alone can save and nothing I add helps. He, the Soveriegn Lord of the Universe, saves. All I can do repent and submit my will to his and then praise Him!
That is what Peter was instructed to tell ALL NATIONS beginning in Jerusalem:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The WILL of God in Christ was that you CANNOT become a DISCIPLE to him except when hearing the gospel you are
....DISCIPLED by BAPTISM and TEACHING what Jesus taught. Jesus taught baptism. The church is an ekklesia or synagogue or SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. You cannot apprentice to John the Coppersmith until you have faith in him and be BAPTIZED to become "his child" in order for YOU to learn the mysteries or secrets of the craftsmen. That is what Jesus said: You cannot be MY DISCIPLES unless you are baptized as the REQUEST for me to REGENERATE you like a little child.
The DISCIPLES were identified as CHRIST FOLLOWERS or CHRISTIANS at Antioch. Therefore, a person simply CANNOT be a CHRISTIAN without becoming a DISCIPLE through BAPTISM and further teaching of the WORDS OF CHRIST in song and sermons.
PRAISE means telling what God in Christ did in His words: you DO NOT praise Him by silly PRAISE SONGS as the world's oldest superstition.
Eph 2:8-9, you know it well, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works(not baptism), lest any man should boast.
Jesus told the Jews that they COULD NOT read the Word until they TURNED to Christ. Turning to Christ gives you A holy spirit or A pure conscience or consiousness or a co-perception. This does not give you further revelation but the ability to HEAR the Spirit which Jesus said was His Words (2 cor 3). You have TOTALLY missed the first half of Ephesians 2 and REPUDIATED baptism as a work of HUMANS. NO ONE BELIEVES THAT false witness except baby sprinklers or as Martin Luther defined it as much like BABY DEDICATION.
You missed the FIRST half of the INSTRUCTIONS for "brain surgery" and just read the last INSTRUCTION which says: "Close up the brain: you have saved the patient by skilled surgery." Don't do that: it just proves that you CANNOT read the word "as it has been taught." Sermonizing will do that to you when you are DISCIPLED to a Pharisee which means one who is your spiritual SUPERIOR and is therefore worthy of a WAGE for misleading you.
Read the Ephesian message about baptism which is the the EVERLASTING "showing act" of what "saved by gracce through faith."
If you cannot grasp it then eat drink and be merry.
Enough for now. Ken
|This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 220.127.116.11 on Feb 3, 2004 11:37 AM|
Finally, something that is coherent...
|February 21 2004, 4:21 PM |
I can finally clearly understand what you are trying to say without thinking that there is a hidden code that only the Restoration elect can read.
I still disagree with %99.9 of what you say, but at least I could read this one without Ibuprofen.
Growing list of protests
|December 2 2003, 4:36 PM |
New Letter circulating in Hohenwald demanding that the Judas goats resign.
Elder does not need Biblical authority for changing baptism or approving of instrumental music.
What is the logic? Well, he was probably reading Rubel Shelly.
John said that the world would not hold the books if everything revealed about Christ were written. Hey, but God is infinite and eternal. Therefore, you cannot write his deeds in a book.
But these guys believe that John meant that there was just not enough books to define the actions of Jesus. But, if someone wrote every microsecond of the earthly life of Jesus and everything He TAUGHT you could get it in a book.
Nevertheless, they believe there are UNWRITTEN words floating around and JUST NOW making their way into THEIR deluded minds. But, if music is now ok when Jesus repudiated it in MANY ways, and if he had spoken some words which approved of the effeminate fellows doing "praise songs" then WHICH Jesus is the Messiah and which one is a LIAR.
The truth is that they HATE water and they hate SILENCE and giving heed to the WORDS of Christ "as they have been taught." That is an OLD fact which needs not proving now. But, I believe that Satan has them by their tail in these end times.
Re: Growing list of protests
|December 2 2003, 9:54 PM |
Please stop judging us. It seems that your letters are tearing our church down more than it is helping. You are publicly attacking our leadership which is uncalled for. If you want to help us then stop writing these letters that offend, and try to do something constructive.
Bruce McIntyre gets trapped
|December 2 2003, 6:34 PM |
Bruce and the latest bulletin:
"But all too often, I hear statements about what it (the Bible) says that are not necessarily true. I have heard many statements that are more about not changing a method of ministry or that are more about keeping everybody happy than they are about Scripture.
"Now, we all want peace and unity and God calls us to be considerate of one another (Romans 14; I Corinthians 8; Philippians 2). But, we must also be honest with Scripture as we seek to practice truth.
"We would be naieve to admit that we do not bring baggage with us when we come to the Bible. We are influenced by a number of sources over the years, and we are indebted to them. [Preachers are not?]
Then quoting Alexander Campbell:
"I have endeavored to read the Scriptures as though no one had read them before me; and I am as much on my guard against reading them today, through the medium of my own views yesterday, or a week ago, as I am of being influenced by any foreign name, authority, or system, whatever," Alexander Campbeil stated in the Christian Baptist in 1826.
Ken: but Alexander specificially repudiated listening to or reading the works of other PREACHERS. In the same article proving that READING FOR SELF is the only way to learn, Campbell blasted away when challenged about "NO PAY FOR SERMONIZING."
"And I can assure you that the scriptures, when made their own interpreter, and accompanied with earnest desires to the author of these writings, have become, to me, a book entirely new, and unlike what they were when read and consulted as a book of reference--
"A hireling is one who prepares himself for the office of a "preacher" or "minister," as a mechanic learns a trade, and who obtains a license from a congregation, convention, presbytery, pope, or diocesan bishop, as a preacher or minister, and agrees by the day or sermon, month or year, for a stipulated reward. This definition requires explanation. That such, however, is a hireling, requires little demonstration. He learns the art and mystery of making a sermon, or a prayer, as a man learns the art of making a boot or a shoe."
TAKE A LOOK to see why they don't want anyone questioning the CELESTIAL BEINGS.
Ken: Look around, maybe you can find some of Jesus' lost words which WOULDN'T FIT into the Bible but are now available to be HEARD AUDIBLY.
|December 4 2003, 10:16 AM |
I have updated the review of Bruce telegraphing his punches about getting rid of YOUR old traditions about music and baptism and "inviting in the world."
Getting DISSOCIATED by PK does strange things to men's PHALLIC JOURNEY.
The Wimbers out of Fuller are the parents of a mentally disturbed effort to turn the logical (spiritual) churches into HOLY THEATERS or the HOLY SPIRIT TAVERN. Carol Wimber is the MOTHER of end- time MUSIC prophesied to be the product of the HOLY WHORE in Revelation. The MUSES are the LOCUSTS with stings in their tail to bring on a PLAGUE of weeping sores. The AGENTS who LOOSE the locusts are agents of APOLLO or ABBADON or APOLLYON or the DEVIL. The BEAST is identified in the Greek world as PAN the little perverted blower of the PAN PIPES. His 'HORNS" are defined by the Bible words as MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS to help the powers of the BEAST to take over their mountain or little kingdom. The battle of music and the mountains or LOOKING TO THE HILLS is defined by the word ARMAGEDDON.
Get the connection between MUSICAL PERFORMANCE and WEEPING SORES?
One size does not fit all but why would a "christian" choose the persona of holy sexual music as prostitution and of the SODOMITES in the Bible to STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE claiming to be GOD by claiming to lead you into the presence of God. In Jezebel's religion "homosexuality bound the 'spirit' and the flesh together." It was the prostitutes, sodomites and musicians of Zeus-Dionysus who were the Abomination of Desolation in the Jerusalem Temple. Sure, the Jewish clergy even tried it on Jesus because they HOPED that messiah would be Dionysus. Indeed, the JUDAS BAG for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments, and the prophecy about Judas in Psalm 41 identified HIM as the chief leader of the priests who tried to PANIC Jesus with charismatic music. Judas was a SICARRI or Assassin who went into crowds to carry out a contract to ASSINATE a leader. Then, using the eternal guilt clause, he would yell: "Murder, foul murder, stop the assassin." And the Assassin probably CONDEMNED the victim for getting blood on his FLUTE CASE to which the JUDAS BAG was always attached.
Read about Carol Wimbers promotion of Holy Prostitution with God. If MALES get climactic with a male god isn't that HOMOSEXUALITY. There are lots out there who want to DANCE WITH GOD and bundle with him. This is a MARK of their destiny. History "knows no other tradition."
And see that Rubel Shelly's VENUE FOR ROCK AND ROLL speaks about the role of JAZZ and VOODOO which never had any other rationale but to FACILITATE a sexual- musical experience--for a PRICE. See the connection when the RESTORATION MOVEMENT defected from the songs and sermons of Jesus Christ, the Spirit, and turned to hymns out of the SLAVE QUARTERS making 'Rock and Roll' while fooling the MASTERS that they were making religion
Ken, looking for all of that lost fortune.
|This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 18.104.22.168 on Dec 4, 2003 10:45 AM|
|December 7 2003, 8:12 PM |
To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? behold, their ear is uncircumcised, and they CANNOT HEARKEN: behold, the WORD of the Lord is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it. Jeremiah 6:10
Reproach meaning naked private parts: that is the way they reproach His Word.
Therefore I am full of the fury of the Lord; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly (secret meetings) of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days. Jeremiah 6:11
And their houses shall be turned unto others, with their fields and wives together: for I will stretch out my hand upon the inhabitants of the land, saith the Lord. Jeremiah 6:12
For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely. Jeremiah 6:13
They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. Jeremiah 6:14
Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither COULD THEY BLUSH: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the Lord. Jeremiah 6:15
Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We WILL NOT walk therein. Jeremiah 6:16
Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken. Jeremiah 6:17
Therefore hear, ye nations, and know, O congregation, what is among them. Jeremiah 6:18
Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the FRUIT of their THOUGHTS, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it. Jeremiah 6:19
THOSE WHO BETRAY WILL BE BETRAYED.
To what purpose cometh there to me incense from Sheba, and the sweet cane from a far country? your burnt offerings are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet unto me. Jeremiah 6:20
Therefore thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will lay stumblingblocks before this people, and the FATHERS and the SONS together shall fall upon them; the neighbour and his FRIEND shall perish. Jeremiah 6:21
Help Me Out!
|December 14 2003, 12:22 AM |
I am a preacher in close proximity to the Hohenwald congregation and so help me, as hard as I have tried, I cannot gather from your posts or from reading on your website just exactly what it is that the Hohenwald church is guilty of doing.
I'm not saying they are innocent, but for those of us not versed in your language and sayings (eg. Zoe, etc.) please lay it all out in a coherent format so that we may know what it is that you are so upset about.
I think that it goes without saying that if a church is guilty of apostasy then we would want to avoid such but for the life of me I cannot grasp what you are trying to say.
I don't mean to be harsh but it is a serious matter to make such claims of apostasy without specific's.
Help on the way
|December 14 2003, 2:49 PM |
It was clear to me when I returned in 1994 that Hohenwald leaders could not tolerate the Promise Keepers or Jubilee button being pushed. A grand class of adult men who grasped that if you are going to understand Hebrews or Romans you have to look to THAT OLD TESTAMENT and see what Paul is pointing to. That class was shut down under the ACCUSATION of subverting the young men.
Hohenwald very quickly declared itself a Purpose Driven Church and A Family of God. They even ERRECTED the four Asherah poles in imitation of Jubilee and of Woodmont Hills. You may remember that Halal (meaning making yourself vile, or Arabic "kosher meat") waved hands and swayed around the Asherah poles or phallic symbols which gained HUGE popularity because they are POWER POLES.
That is my personal testimony which meant that any BIBLE ORIENTED teaching would not be tolerated. Other than communicating with my family I have not initiated a single phone call.
The specific charges have been played out in the community and the Baptists are gloating over the deliberate SOWING OF DISCORD and division in the church of Christ.
As addressed to the elders who believe instruments are ok and baptism FOR the remission of sins is NOT ok:
Here is the first letter which you have had links to above but I will do it again so that I AM NOT the goat charged with BLEEDING on those who SHOOT me:
The second letter lays out the specifics and charges the "leadership" with a historic destruction of the church over which they have PLEDGED to oversee and obligate themselves to FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY. To their credit none of the elders knows enough about the Bible to teach it.
Another letter was read (surprise to everyone) by a deacon who led the closing prayer and resigned for Biblical Reasons addressed in his letter. That has not been made public yet. Perhaps the elders will give you a copy to assure that I didn't start this SOWING OF DISCORD.
Another letter from one with family ties for a hundred years has not been published although it went to all of the members. That is the SMOKE under which there is a historic FIRE lit by a deacon who decided to TEAM UP with the Church of God. I will e-mail you a copy if you give me your e-mail (I won't squeel) but I won't publish it
I think that these letters define what they know to be happening without any hearsay. I have been medically shut in for several years but my Biblical teachings which WOULD NOT BE TOLERATED in the church began in 1998 after being told that GIVING LOTS OF MONEY didn't give anyone the right to MAKE SUGGESTIONS. Even as a member of the Building Committee, a suggestion created quivering lips when I OUTED a suggestion which both the contractor and architect had been wanting to hear to make the project EVEN possible.
I didn't know then that my substantial contribution (with much more to come) was being collected under false pretenses intending to DIVERT it into a church which REPUDIATED the church of Christ. They suddenly assumed OWNERSHIP and the old "grey hairs" were dispensible as in all Purpose Driven Cults. I believe that claiming to be the leaders loads the burden of fiduciary responsibilit which is a later test.
I posted Russ Adcox's defence of the Purpose Driven Church model. This is a Baptist cult which intends to stop doctrinal teaching and turn church into "a theater for holy entertainment." At Madison they CONSPIRED to learn from Saddleback and then INFILTRATE and DIVERT the people into making a perverted theatrical performance out of "church" where DISCIPLES are STUDENTS and not pagan "worshipers"
Locals infiltrated a Purpose Driven Teacher into Kimmins. They always try to SUBVERT the most conservative churches first. The preacher who decided not to TAKE PAY for teaching what he believed was immediately HIRED at Hohenwald and immediately sowed massive discord by telling the women they were being abused by not letting them participate. Of course, these people are BIBLICALLY ILLITERATE and trust Max Lucado or Rubel Shelly as their LORD.
Readers will note that we have posted clarifying links to letters from concerned members already. So, there should not be any confusion about what they are saying.
My other generic articles OUT the universal understanding that MUSIC AS WORSHIP came with Satan or Lucifer into the Garden of Eden and is finally judged in Revelation 18. Singers and Players were almost universally prostitutes or Sodomites and were called PARASITES. Not in the most pagan temples could SINGERS or MUSICIANS enter the Holy Place. Amont the Jews the Holy Place is a type of the body or church of Christ. The EMBLEMS in the Holy Place identify the SYNAGOGUE which was a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE with no praise service. The Most Holy Place represents the ONLY place where God seeks worship: that is the new PLACE of the human spirit.
No musical worship team or "approved" instrumentalist ever went into these places in the Temple. Their job was service (hard bondage) to the priests who were slaughtering and burning tens of thousands of TYPES of Lord Jesus Christ. Psalm 41 prophesies (for those with ears) that Judas would fail in his musical attack.
You didn't say WHAT church you preach for?
That's all, Ken
|This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 22.214.171.124 on Dec 14, 2003 3:38 PM|
Help number Two
|December 14 2003, 4:26 PM |
I didn't clarify the ZOE group and concept because I cannot conduct an online course on every term I use. Most people understand the ZOE GROUP as being the trainers of females and effeminate males. They are to go home and replace the Word with "singing, clapping, playing instruments, using drama, using dance" and all of the PERFORMING ARTS all recognized as paganism: raw and perverted.
ZOE is the Greek meaning of EVE which is not a name. She is Inanna, the holy whore, in Babylon, Ishtar, Mary and etc. In the literature ZOE is the "mother" of brain-drained "jehovah." She send "jehovah" into the Abyss but he decided that to virtually seduce the MOTHER OF THE GODS he would send up PRAISE SONGS to her. He was then elevated to the seventh heaven but still below the SUPREME god. There, "jehovah" organized musical worship teams to worship whom? Why, the FEMINIST GODDESSES, Sophia and Zoe. Zoe was also the sister-mother of the LOGOS or Jesus the Christ.
Zoe is the feminist CHRIST and she is also LUCIFER: the singing and harp-playing prostitute as the king/queen of Tyre. Not surprising, when the ZOE GROUP took her name the goal was a FEMINIST, hostile takeover of the church. Sophia was known as the SERPENT and Zoe as the BEAST and "the female instructing principle." When women get AUTHORITY it is Paul's word AUTHENTIA which is "both erotic and murderous." That is why Paul still says that they should remain sedentary: they cannot PERFORM without exercising AUTHENTIA or sexual power. That is why MISLEADERS want to USE them to hustle for MONEY.
Carroll D. Osburn of ACU who trains Prophets, Chanellers and Facilitators to go out and defeat the old CONSERVATIVE CHURCHES OF CHRIST....
Also informs us that:
"There is major disagreement on whether one should use the Bible to undergird doctrines in a "proof-texting way, or whether one should allow doctrine to EMERGE from understanding texts in their literary and historical contexts. Certainly these differing views of Scripture lie behind differing views of WOMEN in the church" (p. 90).
Rubel Shelly says that "work out your own salvation" means that WE must partner with God to work out our own Scripture. Sure, hear the AUDIBLE voice of God.
That began in the garden of Eden when Satan said (not asked), "Hath God really said." However, there is a name for a professor who hires on with those who BELIEVE in the Bible and ACTIVELY CONSPIRE to treacherously defeat them. Don't keep tigers as pets!
He shows how the CHANGE AGENTS, as at Madison, INFILTRATE AND DIVERT which to us conservatives means treacherous liars. By defining the FEMINIST takeover (male or female) he also shows what the CHANGE AGENTS brag about:
Carroll D. Osburn says that:
"Feminist hermeneutics stands over against PATRIARCHAL hermeneutics" its goal achieved
...."by small, often UNNOTICED acts of SUBVERSIONS. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( p. 32).
The fortress which is the TARGET of all effeminate music is to destroy the PATRIARCHAL "Father" where the DOVE recognized a SON and not the Babylonian whore as DAUGHTER of the MOTHER.
There are many documents or Babylonian Tablets which defines Inanna who BUILDS temples just to CREATE division between peacable brothers. We will ship that for now. However, there are many documents which define the MOTHER GODDESS hostile takeover as understood by ALL of the church fathers. When the feminists and lesbians Methodists take over as PROFESSORS and PASTORS they often try to EMERGE a worship which honors SOPHIA and by necessity ZOE and reject God as Father and not the SERPENT.
In HER Second Incarnation, look here:
If you have CYMBALS they are LOCUSTS. Locust are resurrected MUSES who PERFORMED for Apollo or Abaddon or Apollyon. If you have singers and instrumentalists they are recognized in the Greek world as SORCERIERS and therefore PARASITES. If you don't get out you will go with them back into hell (Rev 18)
If you don't know ZOE and the MUSES you will NOT recognize the LOCUSTS when they return as musical performers. They have scorpion stings in their tail.
Yes, John used Greek legends (or maybe history) to warn those with EYES and EARS.
|This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 126.96.36.199 on Dec 14, 2003 7:25 PM|
The old Guilt Clause
|December 14 2003, 9:58 PM |
It didn't take long for the leadership to blame the sudden loss of LAMBS on those who pleaded for correction. The old Guilt Clause began in the garden of Eden: "that woman made me do it." No confession, no pity for the wounded lambs. Denial, denial, denial.
The HEAVY HEART is attributed to at least two letters written as a last resort after discussions in which THEY claim heretical views about BAPTISM and INSTRUMENTS and working with A Church of God rather than those he was self-selected to MINISTER to. Charging people with lying is a terrible crime when the SHEEP AIN'T THERE.
Please don't try to deny that others were effectively DISFELLOWSHIPPED because they taught against views now being denied. No special talk with the "false teacher" as yet--five years later. The lost lamb with his purse not tagging behind him got into serious trouble repudiating JUBILEE (denying the Atonement) and Promise Keepers (a phallic cult).
Martin Luther who grasped that Romans 15 was a description of the TEACHING (not musical as in Romans 14) role of the church wrote.
5. The best rule to follow in such matters is the rule of love. You should hold the same attitude toward these two classes that you would toward a wolf and a sheep.
"Suppose a WOLF were to wound almost fatally a sheep,
and you were to proceed with RAGE against the SHEEP,
declaring it to be WRONG in being WOUNDED, that it should be sound;
"and you were VIOLENTLY to compel it to follow the other sheep to the pasture and to the fold, giving it no special care;
"would not all men declare you inconsiderate?
"The sheep might well say: "Certainly it is WRONG for me to be wounded, and unquestionably I ought to be sound;
but direct your anger toward the INFLICTER of my wounds, and assist in my recovery."
"So should these Romans have done and have faithfully repelled the wolf-like teachers. (in Romans 14 which Paul DID NOT tolerate)
At the same time, the consciences weakened and discouraged by false doctrines should have received consideration. The Church at Rome ought not to have DENOUNCED nor IGNORED them,
"but rather to have carefully healed their spiritual disorder and ultimately eradicated the WRONG DOCTRINES,
in patience bearing with their weak brethren lest they should cause them to err.
Calling people liars implies that chasing away the MATURE is the only way to IMPOSE the Purpose Drive Cult. How about telling the writers during the assembly that they are hallucinating liars?
It is NOT the truth that the WOUNDED caused their own wound: how can about a hundred be the GUILTY PARTY and slandering liars?
The world is just too filled with PRAYERFUL BRINKMANSHIP to believe the latter day denial that they said anything against baptism and in favor of instrumental music. Lynn Anderson claims that you BACK OFF and teach the old church of Christ dogma and plan to lung ahead when everyone goes to sleep again. Everyone needs proof. It is part of his SHEPHERDING or cross roads scheme.
Warnings to fit our church
|December 15 2003, 7:23 AM |
I have compiled some of the changes which fit our local church. It is posted here:
I have listed some specific questions including:
Should we fellowship denominational bodies at the painful cost of being disfellowshipped or shunned by other main line Churches of Christ near and far?
Remember, ask specific questions and expect specific answers. example: Do you believe that baptism is essential for salvation? The answer should be yes or no. The answer should not be "Yes I believe in baptism". The religious world believes "in" baptism but not everyone believes that baptism is essential for salvation even though the bible is very clear on the subject.
Don't be misled by CODE WORDS of the change agents: they may say, yes we believe that baptism is necessary for salvation--but!
|December 15 2003, 1:26 PM |
As usual the BLEEDING lambs tried to attack the CLAWS of the wolves and it's all their fault. Haven't we heard that so often?
I have posted a page which will compare the rationale of the leadership to the Bible. As usual, those being driven away are LEGALISTS, JUDGMENTAL AND DENY THE SOVEREIGNTY of God who, like Calvinists, saves and condemns. Therefore, you cannot rest on the DIRECT COMMANDS of Jesus because God MIGHT exercise discretion and save someone in another way. That's ok, but God is God and we are not so let's GOD exercise HIS sovereignty and not get into PLAYING GOD to fellowship those Jesus identifes as treacherous and infidels.
This in an ongoing project.
It absolutely fits the pattern of elders who USURP the authority of those who "elected them" while the rest were peer-elected. In the honest world we don't give board members owners of the corporation. But they have been well trained.
|December 16 2003, 3:42 PM |
It apprears that you and your brother have to much time on your hands. It appears to me, the outsider, that you both like to gossip and cause trouble. I hope you are ready to stand on judgement day, because it appears to me that you both are more worried about the other churches in town and not your own souls. Answer one question for me please. Who is going to be the judge? And if you answer Jesus, then let's leave it that way and worry about our own salvation and not others.
Another appeal: don't try it, jeffy
|December 17 2003, 1:46 PM |
AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE TO HOHENWALD:
YOU HAVE PASSED JUDGMENT ON LORD JESUS CHRIST AND CALLED HIM A LIAR. YOU HAVE PAST JUDGEMENT ON THE OWNERS OF THE CHURCH WHO BELIEVE WHAT JESUS SAID AND NOT WHAT MAX LUCADO OR YOUR BAPTISTS EMBEDS TEACH. HOW?
Quote of Leadership Hohenwald church of Christ: Instead, we want to UNITE with other Christians as it is in the best interest of this church family...whether they be believers from other churches of Christ or believers from OTHER churches.
To address a few specific concerns from the letter this week...
...Leadership Hohenwald church of Christ: We believe that baptism is essential.
....But, if you want us to say that we save ourselves, or if you want us to say what God cannot do, we will not.
....God saves and God condemns, we do not.
That is a fact: God says that one who is saved by GRACE through FAITH has been baptized and raised with Christ (Ephesians 1). Why CAST DOUBT that God maybe lied? No one asks that elders do anything but "teach the word as it has been taught." The leaders cannot JUDGE that those who disobey God are "CHRISTIANS" and they cannot judgmentally judge those who have believed what the church has always believed--outside of Zwingli's baptism invented in a.d. 1525 and adopted by the Baptists. We don't judge to say that it is as pagan a baptism which demands that Christ must personally die for them as the Catholic eucharist or mass.
JESUS MAKES IT PLAIN IN JOHN 17 THAT UNITY IS BASED ON THE WORD OF GOD. He is not interested in UNION but church means those CALLED OUT OF THE WORLD to become a SCHOOL or SYNAGOGUE to repudiat pagan worship centers where MUSICAL women or effeminate men are peddling SEXUALITY. Paul calls that authority Authentia: both murderous and erotic.
Jesus isn't interested in us JUDGING in one way or the equally opposite way of defacto recognizing everyone saved by faith. Jesus said that YOU will be judged by THE WORD of God. The Living Word and Written Word says that you CANNOT be a disciple without baptism and further teaching. A Disciple is a Christian. Therefore, the WORD Judges that there are no CHRISTIANS who have not been baptized requesting that God give them A holy spirit or A clear conscience. I cannot say that God will LIE and make exceptions. God is God and I am not. Therefore, if He makes exceptions then he has the right. He has not DELEGATED that to human JUDGES.
But, NO, God cannot lie. All we know as Christians is in the Bible. The Bible claims to be the Word of God. God defined the meaning of a CHRISTIAN. Therefore, if you want to accuse God of being a liar then go ahead. But Jesus said that the believeth nots are the baptized nots BECAUSE they are treacherous infidels. Would a LOVING JESUS call you a traitor and an infidel? He just did.
The Bible calls people BELIEVERS or BELIEVING only after they have been baptized into Christ. Max Lucado confesses it.
They teach that just BELIEVING in Jesus Christ makes one a Christian or a child of the God. They would, therefore, tell you that BELIEVING in the Devil makes one a child of the Devil. But, Jesus Who DOES NOT JUDGE says that even calling Lord Lord does not save you.
WHO IS A CHRISTIAN? The Bible clearly identifies a Christian as one who is OF THE TRUTH who hears the voice of God in Christ (John 18:37). We do not have to JUDGE or CONDEMN because Jesus didn't condemn.
...."He that REJECTETH me, and RECEIVETH not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the WORD that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jn.12:48
The predestined purpose of God was that both Jews and Gentiles be baptized to become a new SCHOOL of discipleship (Christianity) by being baptized for the remission os sin. Like the Sabbath REST under the Law, God guarded Christians against the usual paganism on the First day of the Week (Sun worship in Rome) by RESTRICTING the assembly to that which edifies or instructs the DISCIPLES who are STUDENTS.
And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, JUSTIFIED God, being baptized with the baptism of John. John 7:29
....But the Pharisees and lawyers REJECTED the counsel of God against themselves, being NOT BAPTIZED of him. John 7:30
If NOT being baptized for the Christ-taught purpose does not cause you to be lost, calling God a liar will get the job done. That is what the ELITE people who commercialized religion did because IT WOULD HURT BUSINESS.
To justify God is to confess that He has told us the truth about baptism. One who "believes not" is defined as treachery and infidelity.
Therefore, it is dangerous JUDGMENTALINS to tell someone that they can become a Christian or disciple just by beliving int Jesus Christ.
Jesus defined the meaning of a DISCIPLE:
It is not possible to preach the GOSPEL without preaching the ONLY means God has provided for us to ACCEPT or JUSTIFY God in baptism. The "believeth nots" are defined by the word Jesus used as TREACHEROUS and INFIDELS.
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18
....Go ye therefore, and teach (MAKE DISCIPLES) all nations,
....1. BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matt 28:19
....2. TEACHING them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Mt.28:20
Believing in Jesus DOES NOT make one a DISCIPLE. A Disciple lets Jesus wash spirit or mind while WE confess Him in baptism. Only DISCIPLES are CHRISTIANS. it is a VERY DANGEROUS and JUDGMENTAL thing to call God a liar and TAKE THE LIBERTY to let people SKIP the direct commands of Jesus, the Apostles and most of church history.
We can understand the meanining of a CHRISTIAN by understandingthe church He promised to build. The Bible uses the Greek word "ekklesia" to define the house or place or the members of the church in a given area or all of those enrolled in heaven
There are several Greek words similar to ekklesia. They are forms of the word the Jews used for their synagogue. There are many words used for gathering in the Old Testament. When the Israelites were called into assembly one word is QAHAL. These meeting which were called so that God could instruct the people through Moses. Loud instruments and "making a joyful noise" noise were forbidden. The reason is simple: God cannot teach us when we are making a noise.
There was never a praise service in the synagogue because it was a school of the Bible. When Paul spoke of the ASSEMBLY or GATHERING TOGETHER in one place he used a form of the synonymous Greek word for SYNAGOGUE:
And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they SUNAGO (synagogued) themselves with the EKKLESIA, (church) and DIDASKO (Teach-Learn) much people.
The Lord's Supper is also a remembering and teaching effort. Showing forth the death means preaching or teaching the death of Christ.
Again, a DISCIPLE is one who has been BAPTISED for the clearing out of the old "man of sin" and asking God for A holy spirit. Peter said that at baptism we REQUEST A clear conscience from God. That also means a clear consiousness. Only by removing sin from our spirit or mind is it possible for God's Spirit to live in us and be our TEACHER.
...And the MATHETES (Disciples Students) were called Christians first in Antioch. Ac.11:26
The words of Jesus and the inspired apostle Paul JUDGE that if one is not a BAPTIZED BELIEVER they CANNOT be a Christian.
A Christian is:
Christianos (g5546) khris-tee-an-os'; from 5547; a Christian, i.e. FOLLOWER (Imitators) of Christ: - Christian.
Jesus commanded the Apostles go GO into all the nations and preach the GOSPEL or New Covenant of Grace. This included all Jews and all Gentiles. The Jews lost the covenant of grace when they ROSE UP TO PLAY in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. The Gentiles or nations knew right from wrong by nature and were approved by God based on their right living and practicing social justice. Neither could find God without baptism and a process of further DISCIPLING.
Therefore, God concluded ALL under sin (Gal 3:22) so that the Promise made by the Spirit of Christ in the Abrahamic covenant might justified all by faith which God defined as:
..Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Gen 26:5
Before FAITH (a system of faith) came the Jews were SHUT UP or HELD PRISONERS until faith be REVEALED. This is THE FAITH or the Christian System which repudiates rituals and is a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. John was the prophsied PATH SMOOTHER who, along with the DISCIPLES of Christ, preached REPENTANCE and BAPTISM for (in order to receive) the REMISSION of SINS.
.."And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. Luke 7:30
Repenting and submitting to baptism meant that the "most wicked" people AGREED that God's requirement was right and they were baptized. Why wouldn't leaders want to be more literate than prostitutes and publicans? Why would they REJECT baptism and classify themselves with the PHARISEES/
.."But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being NOT baptized of him. Luke 7:30
God counseled or pre-determined or pre-destinated that He would accept as disciples (Christians or students) only those who submitted to baptism.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Gal 3:25 [The ROD was the incentive of the oriental schoolmaster]
...FOR ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:26
...FOR as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Gal 3:27
It is interesting that those who reject the clear teaching of Paul about women's role in the church say, "there is neither male nor female." But, I betcha that they INTERPRETED that differently when they got married. Why is it that the new CHANGE AGENDA is so dedicated to AIDS ministries and homosexuals as guest pulpiters?
.."There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28
At the same time they tell Paul that he is a liar for saying that you get INTO Christ or into His body or kingdom or church ONLY by being BAPTIZED INTO Christ so that we are now CLOTHED with Christ.
You don't get into the CLOTHING of God by believing in God.
Whatever men who reject the Word of God, a DISCIPLE is a baptized believer. He is continually taught to be a learner of the Word of Christ who is the only Rabbi or master teacher.
This is important because God isn't interested in how well you sing, clap, dance or play instruments: God will simply show you the WORD and you will know that you are lost because you called the Holy God of the universe a LIAR. God MARKS us or SEALS us at Baptism: not by FAITH ONLY.
The word CAIN means a MUSICAL NOTE: the Word proves that the LOCUSTS or musical performs test people with the MARK of the BEAST (ZOE) who tried to force little jehovah and logos into forming musical worship teams. No doubt at all
Is there a code for this?
|December 17 2003, 8:18 PM |
It is amusing to me that some people respond to what you say and praise you for the wonderful words that you share. There must be some type of secret code to unscramble what you say becasue it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever as is.
The sad truth of the matter is that the fundamentalists in the churches of Christ are searching for someone to articulate in an intelligent way the view of the traditional churches of Christ since nobody seems to know how to do it. For years, many people within the churches of Christ have been afraid to question their beliefs and, therefore, there has not been a need to DEFEND them. Now that there is a need to defend them, there is nobody to do it. If they are looking to Mr. Sublett to do it, then they will lose mightily because none of us have any idea what you are saying and I venture to say that those who pay tribute to you have no idea what you are saying either. They simply see the words "baptism" and "instrumental music" mingled with a few "LUCIFERS" and "SATANS" and assume that you are "right on brother."
When you count up the amount of activity on this web site, the majority of responses come from those of us who are tired of the debates on baptism and instumental music because they are a debate that has been had and was defeated. Nobody is teaching that you do not need to be baptized, they simply put baptism in its proper place and not on the same level as the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
Please understand this and quit babbling.
Bible Code? ever hear of it?
|December 18 2003, 11:19 AM |
Paul identified the FACTS of the death, burial, resurrection, ascension and teachings of God in Christ as the
PROTOS or prototype gospel.
God is God and we are not: we CANNOT be crucified for our own sins as in BELIEVER'S BAPTISM.
After Jesus issed the Great Commission in Matthew 28, Mark begins discussing the
ARCHE as the beginning point, corner stone, or MOST IMPORTANT part of the Gospel for we MORTALS who cannot die for our own sins and therefore TRUST the PROTOTYPE and obey THAT FORM of doctrine.
Anti- as in ANTI-TYPE of THAT FORM means INSTEAD OF. You might BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God but that only gives you POWER to become (future) a child of God.
Mark then records the same Great Commission showing that the BELIEVETH NOTS are traitors having been TAKEN CAPTIVE by the only other power in the universe.
The CROSS is the DRAWING POWER for those who are OF THE TRUTH who, unlike the Jewish clergy, had not sold their souls as Pharisees who STOLE THE HOUSES (ate up) of WIDOWS in exchange for PERFORMANCE PRAYERS which were sermons. To those, Jesus spoke in PARABLES to keep the BLIND from seeing (Matt 13) and the deaf from hearing.
YOU CANNOT be Christ and declare (judgmentally) that people are SAVED by being believers.
Paul showed that BAPTISM is the only place that we--who are still mortals--can PARTICIPATE in the PROTOTYPE gospel which WE can not enjoy unless we "drown in the flood, be overcome by Egypt (Hagar, the Law, Jerusalem) as SIN, be re-created as a nation or be SAVED, have our SINS REMITTED, be added to the heavenly kingdom, receive A holy spirit (not a little man of the Lucado-Shelly heresy) or receive A good conscience which mean A clear consiousness. This, in turn means a "co-perception" with the AUTHOR and FINISHER as the Living Word and as the Written Word which HE declares is the only source of SPIRIT and of LIFE.
Jesus said to DISCIPLE believers by BAPTIZING them and the TEACHING what HE has taught. A holy spirit means that God will meet us in the new PLACE of our spirit ONLY if we allow Him to sprinkle it from An EVIL-conscience or consiousness. Without this, God simply does not even SEEK worship in the human spirit which is anti-typical (Instead of) the Most Holy Place in the carnal temple where NO rhetorician, singer or musician could go under penalty of death--even to clean out the garbage.
In the NEW PLACE where Christ bestows his HEALING of giving us SPIRITUAL LIFE, He TOLD us something when He "cast out, more or less violently" the MUSICAL MINSTRELS as one "ejects dung." Dung played an important role in the sacrificial antics of the Jews.
The CHURCH has no role but to be a SYNAGOGUE or School of the Bible: even the Lord's supper is to show forth or PREACH the Death of Jesus. When He hymns in the assymbly, the word means to AGONIZE. Jesus wept. Jesus still weeps with us if we weep with Him for the sins of the world.
In Romans 14 Paul defined (to those awake) the Dionysic, wine-drinkers, meat eaters; and the Orphic vegetarians (the only vegetarians in Rome unless there were Essenes in the church). Then, in Romans 15 he defined a SYNAGOGUE OF CHRIST which permits EVERYONE to come together for BIBLE CLASSES (from the Bible, naturally). Then, imitating Christ, we do not PLEASE ourselves in the sense of charismatic SPIRIT DISTURBANCE. Then we can WITH ONE MIND and with ONE VOICE Glorify God by "that which is WRITTEN" which was by the Spirit of Christ.
God isn't LOST: you don't have to paganize to try to LEAD the people into God's Presence (Re shelly, Vineyard, New Wineskins, ZOE). He is NOT LOST and we do not, like David, have to AROUSE Him from sleep. Jesus is the MEDIATOR speaking to us through the WORD and we speak to God in prayer and meditating in the heart to God.
It is prophetic that the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY will be caught "IN the grip of someone's grudge." Jubilee REPUDIATES the Atonement and one should not get TOO smug about exchanging SAVIORS so close to the end where MOST will fail because they are IMPATIENT about forcing the KINGDOM to Come. Jesus said that the kingdom is WITHIN YOU.
The sermon uses weasel words because SOMEONE wants to MAKE EXCEPTIONS and fulfill prophecy about LUCIFER (Zoe) tring to Descend or Ascend to RUSH Jesus and thereby REJECT His role in the PROTOTYPE gospel and forget that WE are not God and must obey the ARCHE or most important part for we who are still MORTALS.
The majority WILL NEVER find Christianity (Baptized Discipleship to CHRIST ONLY) appealing and any one wanting to be faithful TO THE END should expect to be "despised and rejected of men" and be "CAST OUT OF THE SYNAGOGUE."
|January 6 2004, 12:25 AM |
Fundamentalists and traditional churches of Christ.
I/we do need a defender some one to speak for us. Ken is one of many. If you only see him as one then you are really not looking around. I understand what you are asking, but I don't think you will understand the answers.
The interesting thing I get out of Kens discussions is the fact that he is knowledgeable. He does go on at times but if you follow thru and read everything you will learn. If all you do is pick at it and then analyze what you want out of it then you will never understand what he is teaching. There are few of us that are new to all this. As such we need teaching. Obviously you dont. As I mentioned one other place, baptism is required by Jesus: Mark 16:16. If you say it is not for salvation you are calling Jesus a liar. I am not judging, yet I am, John 7:24. I am to judge righteous judgement. Also in Titus 3:10-11 tells me I am to reject heretics. As such that means I am to judge someone for teaching heresy.Romans 16:17-18 tells me I am to "mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them". Again I cannot do this if I don't understand what is doctrine and what is not. Ken has helped me see the doctrinal errors in the church today. I see it in many area's not just with music, but also in how we approach God.
You have mentioned that he is Babbling. I noticed that most of the time he seems that way.
I thought you both might like to know I went to ACU for 3.5 years. My sister graduated from there. She and I see eye to eye on how God and Jesus set up his church. Not all coming out of ACU is bad, but then it is difficult today to not have problems with what is the true doctrine and what is heresy.
As to Ken's babbling, I noticed that most of the time (not all) his attackers do not attack his teachings but how he teaches. In other words most of you attack him personally. As in most cases since you cannot refute what he is teaching you attack him personally. Which most of us realize is a diversionary tactic to keep us from reading and understanding what he tells us. Those of you attacking him understand you cannot attack his statements so you attack him.
I will ask a simple question you may respond with an answer or you may attack me also.
If Ken's statements are wrong give me New Testiment scripture to support your views and in the KJV only.
Also I would like to mention that you keep bringing up the cross of Christ. I think you need to look a little further than just the cross, the cross is nothing. All men die (exceptions: Elijah & Enoch), some men have died and were resurrected. But name me one other man to have died, resurrected and then gone to heaven without having died. The part you need to look to is his resurrection not his death. Almost all men have died. Only one, only one died, raised from the dead and went to heaven, never to die again. This is the important part. Not his death. Look to his resurrection not his death. Thats why on sunday we celebrate his resurrection not his death. Without his resurrection we have no way of going to heaven as that would have proved he was only a man and not the Son of God.
DOn't look to the cross look to his resurrection.
Trust in God always.
Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing
|July 8 2004, 9:45 PM |
It saddens me to see a brother or sister in Christ who has let a "wolf" make them question their beliefs. The Bible has not changed and there is no need for anyone to change for the sake of entertainment, just to increase church numbers. Those wolves are only tickling your ears.
I pray the best for you and hope that your eyes will soon be opened. God Bless Ken Sublett for having the courage to stand up for what is right.
Hohenwald-Slow ones in the Slow group
|December 18 2003, 10:30 AM |
Over 32,000 a week are able to get MORE out of any one of my articles than from an UNLAWFUL sermon from an UNLAWFUL staff infection.
Even the Fast ones in the Slow group-9 to 14 year olds enjoy help on papers about BABYLONIA which they are studying now while CASTING the Bible out.
However, for the Slow ones of the Slow group, I repeat.
The INCARNATE God of the universe says that:
You make DISCIPLES (not pagan worshipers) by BAPTIZING them so that you CAN teach them what GOD has revealed. That excludes Twila Paris.
A DISCIPLE is a STUDENT of the Word.
When a member of the EKKLESIA assembles with the ELDER at the SYNAGOGUE it is to LEARN the Bible or consult with one who is TRAINED in the Bible. One never WORSHIPS in the synagogue other than through PAUL'S only WORSHIP WORD which means to Give Heed to Christ by giving HEED to WHATSOVER He taught and revealed.
A DISCIPLE became known as a CHRISTIAN because they were FOLLOWERS of Christ Who would NEVER lead you into becoming ROBBERS OF TEMPLES.
Therefore, A CHRISTIAN is a DISCIPLE OF CHRIST (Student only) and ONLY baptized believers are DISCIPLES or CHRISTIANS. MOST religions have always been false and Jesus is picking out a tiny remnant by the TEST of faith leading to baptism which is THE FORM of His own sacrifice. Christians are despised and rejected of MOST people and trying to become RESPECTABLE for your own vested interest means that YOU may not be a Christian after all.
ALL "believers" in the Bible were BAPTIZED BELIEVERS.
God-like JUDGMENTAL LEGALISTS and TRADITIONALISTS of the Zwingli type define a believer as one who believes in FAITH ONLY. The JUDGE churches of Christ as a CULT. If you want to be part of them then YOU have to turn and rend your own family and friends. YOU have to go into captivity to YOU or THEY will not accept YOU.
Luther who INVENTED Sola Fide (faith only) INTERPRETED that to mean that you FOLLOW THE BIBLE ONLY and FAITH means that you accept the BIBLE ONLY for faith and practice.
If you have FAITH ONLY in Christ who inspired the BIBLE then you MUST be baptized in order to the FORGIVENESS of Sins.
Fellowshiping "believers-only" while driving away OWNERS-ONLY is, according to Charles Spurgeon" the bottom of the barrel of sin and loss of minimal ethics.
PERMITTING God to make exceptions is PLAYING GOD who CANNOT LIE and told you that CHRISTIANS ONLY have refused to CALL GOD A LIAR who put salvation in the simple TRUST of obeying the FORM of doctrine in water baptism. That FORM or anti-type means INSTEAD OF-type.
Contrary to those who are so JUDGMENTAL and LEGALISTIC and Zwinglian-Traditionalists to "ALLOW" God to make exceptions TELL PEOPLE that God makes exceptions. What they are saying is that WE make exceptions, WE will allow you to INFILTRATE and steal OUR church. Jesus-Only identifies "believeth nots" who are "baptized not" FOR the salvation which HE promised and YOU deny as "Treacherous (traitors) and Infidels."
YOU have no right to SAVE people by deliberately SOWING DISCORD and DRIVING OUT like DIOTREPHES those who elected (ala-commercial politics) YOU to keep the thieves out and NOT take people's money under false pretense and then CASTING them out for teaching THE BIBLE (what you call traditionalism) identifying them as SUBVERTERS.
Many of those DRIVEN OUT will never go to church again and some will be LOST because YOU lie with the word TRADITIONALIST when the Fast ones in the Slow group know that MUSIC came with Lucifer into the garden of Eden. Your musical facilitators is the ZOE group and ZOE is LUCIFER. As the AGENT in TYRE (as in Tyre and Sidon) is identified as a SINGING and HARP PLAYING prostitute.
You cannot call the positon AGAINST women exercising the AUTHENTIA autority which is erotic and murderous just TRADITION without calling Jesus and Paul liars. Paul, under inspiration, says that EVE was wholly seduced by LUCIFER and CAIN (a musical note or mark) was OF THAT WICKED ONE.
You cannot refute the position about BAPTISM without calling God a Liar.
You cannot refute the MUSIC position as TRADITIONALISM without LYING like Satan.
You CAN identify "music as the only role of the Church" as the NEW traditionalism from hell.
You CAN identify the Rubel Shely's LOCATED MISSIONARY as the MOST destructive, legalistic TRADITIONS. This is repudiated by Jesus, by Paul and by ALL of church history on the KNOWLEDGE level. You can call it the most DESTRUCTIVE TRADITIONALISM repudiated by the Restoration Movement leaders when they cleared out recent APOSTASY.
You CAN identify political-commercial elders who know nothing about the Bible and care less. They work on personal and CIVIC pride and VIOLATE the ONLY authority they have which is to "teach that which has been taught" and to "rebuke those who oppose it."
You CAN identify the LAW OF GIVING which replaced the free will giving of those who PROSPERED to those who were DESTITUTE.
You CAN identify as destructive traditionalism putting Joe six-pack on the PROGRAM just to get him to come to church (once) when honest and equipped elders should PRESIDE over. That exclude non-silent meaning non-sedentary women.
You CAN identify PROGRAMS which is the cursed pyramidal ministry system added when the ELDERS fired God and demanded "set a king over us" meaning "so we can worship LIKE THE NATIONS."
You CAN identify the GYMNASIUM which facilitated the Abomination of Desolation into the very temple in Jerusalem.
A DISCIPLE is a BAPTIZED BELIEVER. A DISCIPLE is a CHRISTIAN. An unbaptized person IS NOT a Christian altough they may be a superior moralists. You CANNOT bring UNBELIEVERS (meaning unbaptized) into the leadership of the CHURCH without knowing and with a HIGH HAND deliberately SPREADING DISCORD just so you can become ALPHA MALE in the secular community.
There simply is NO REDEMPTION for those who have known the truth and turned away to CRUCIFY CHRIST ALL OVER AGAIN. Do you KNOW WHAT? The Baptist baptism is no earlier than 1625. It is a PAGAN BAPTISM. A baptist is normally PREDESTINATED to heaven while your innocent baby is a little DRACULA, a fornicator and a SODOMITE. Why? Why because the MOTHER enjoyed conceiving it.
When they BELIEVE which is some feeling in the gut, they are SAVED but not in fellowship. They must endure the LAW and come to the place of having CHRIST crucified all over again like the Catholic Mass. You, may, of course even BECOME Christ to die for your own sins lik the THIEF on the cross who WAS crucified for his OWN SINS. A Baptist notes that the MYSTERIES of a purely American religion--a Gnostic system--are somewhat HIDDEN because it is such an obscene, Christ denying ritual NOT learned from Jesus.
No one goes around telling them that they are going to hell so the CHARGE is a lie to try to justify the DISBELIEF in baptism or there WOULD NOT have been such a mass exodus. Don't blame me: I am trying to RECOVER from the cave of the Bear clan. Picked my pocket!