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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.107

Ooops!

December 18 2003, 10:47 AM 

I have to do my dissertation on a daily basis and I DO make mistake: but YOU know what i mean, Huh?

Here is the stuff on the Abomination of Desolation in the Jerusale temple which defines what THE JEWS demanded of God and were CURSED when He answered their prayer and KEPT THEM virtually in prison until they went into Captivity and death BECAUSE OF THE musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

http://www.piney.com/2Macc.html

Jesus DID read this one.

Ken

 
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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.110

Grace ONLY? Review of Madison Sermon.

December 23 2003, 11:44 AM 

Those who LUST for a MULTIPLYING MINISTRY worship by doing the BUNNY HOP. They can enter the DOOR to Ephesians two and HOP all of the way OVER baptism and land on verse 8 to prove FAITH ONLY which Luther and Calvin idenfied as virtual insanity.

Look at the Madison Forum (synagogue);

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/150389

Then look at the Grace Centered assault on Mark 16:16 and more.

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=150389&messageid=1072177143&lp=1072177143


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 67.32.219.154 on Dec 23, 2003 12:31 PM


 
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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.67

Promise Keepers

January 2 2004, 8:46 AM 

The following post will show you what the Promise Keepers intend to do even as they are PROMISE BREAKERS to their own church. They have fallen under CULT CONTROL and probably have CONFESSED too much so that they are UNDER DOMINION to the ones who KNOW the deep, dark secrets.

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=150389&messageid=1072860874&lp=1072991101

Promise Keepers, which is based on ancient hostile takeover schemes (Machiavelli, Hitler etc) has moved from PRAYER, which Machiavelli quoted by Rubel Shelly, says "rarely works" to FORCE which always works if you don't FLUSH your prey.

Promise Keepers has adopted the SHEPHERDING concept along with Max Lucado (once VP and promoter of PK), Lynn Anderson and favorably treated by Rubel Shelly.

The claim that Max and team gets NEW VISIONS (new glasses for Rubel Shelly) has been challenged by Tom.

We quote MAX LUCADO'S CONFESSION. Notice that the LANGUAGE between MY VISIONand the elders ULTIMATELY AGREEING lies the Heglian Dialectic or Concensus Scam and some REAL WARFARE. If 5 agree that Max's VISION about tossing CHRIST off the name and adding INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC is from GOD, and 4 agree that his vision (consistent with 100% of the evidence) is from Satan, then THEY can say that THE ELDERS ARE 100% in favor that INSTRUMENTS ARE OK. The SILENCE imposed by PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE does not free the COWED from the guilt of the ALWAYS IN CHARGE types.

Because Promise Keepers have, in intent, taken control of ALL OF THE CHURCHES, anyone who RESISTS the command to TO CONVERT the Hohenwald Church will hear from headquarters--No, not in heaven.

Ken Sublett


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 66.20.109.13 on Jan 2, 2004 8:54 AM


 
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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.93

Financial Planning is Anti-Christian as pushed

January 8 2004, 3:15 PM 

And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. Mark 12:41

..And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. Mark 12:42
And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: Mark 12:43

....For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living. Mark 12:44

I THINK THAT JESUS TURNED OVER THE COLLECTION PLATES (CALLED TRUMPETS) THUS REPUDIATING ANYONE WHO WOULD TAKE THE WIDOWS MITE: ESPECIALLY IF THEY INTEND TO BAIT AND SWITCH. THE TEMPLE CAME DOWN AND THE "CLERGY" AND THEIR INSTRUMENTS WERE LOST AND THEY ARE STILL LOOKING FOR THEM IN ORDER TO RESTORE THE PAGAN-LIKE TEMPLE.

Matt 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Matt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Matt Mt.23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES for ye DEVOUR widows HOUSES, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

The SECTARIAN HYPOCRITES were "rhetoricians, sOPHISts (serpents), singers and musicians. They are called SORCERERS in the Book of Revelation. In the Greek World they were all PARASITES. Parasites are the ONLY Ones who seek YOUR money so that they can divert it to their own lusts.

http://www.piney.com/LayByInStore.html

Anyone promoting the TITHE is anti-Christ because they CLAIM for their priesthood--OFFERING SACRIFICES--what only the Levi tribe was given because THEY had no free farms. This ammounted, in a seven year period, to 2/7ths of the FOOD grown only on the FARMS. Anyone who claims a legal right to your WAGE should be SHUNNED.

Unless the misleaders GIVE you a free farm or business then YOU do not OWE them a RED PENNY.

Never give A TITHE or even one penny unless you know that you are dealing with people who will not be a Judas Goat.

Ken Sublett


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 67.32.207.52 on Jan 8, 2004 4:11 PM


 
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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.12

Rubel Shelly John York

January 11 2004, 11:26 AM 

For those who have converted to WALKING IN THE STEPS of Rubel Shelly you should note that he is on the women's worship leader (etc) subject. Because they have PREACHED this stuff before, their claim that the ELDERS by a minority request want it preached again rings hollow. OF COURSE, "we do not intend to make changes" but what COULD be the motive to PREACH the same FALSE DOGMA if not to PROMOTE female leadership. From earlier articles, Rubel wants to EXEMPT the preaching role and the elders role but???

He has used all of the Old Testament women as PROOF and we have shown that Rubel takes his own advice and "takes liberties" by making Miriam a WORSHIP LEADER OVER MEN when God makes her a Leper and uses her as an EXAMPLE of claiming rights He gave only to the male priests.

Sure, when you fuzz up the brains with "musical worship" and "charismatic preaching" you can just slide over the false claims without any proof and the "fools loving to be fooled will just drink it up like new wine."

We will begin a look at TODAY'S SERMON TODAY by TESTING whether MIRAM was a Worship leader with clanging and gonging and dancing as John and Rubel claim.

http://www.piney.com/RS.Women.1.11.04.html

In looking at the other PROOF TEXTS we will see that God condemns utterly what Shelly York preach.

Ken Sublett


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 65.80.170.51 on Jan 11, 2004 1:23 PM


 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.90

Babblers are SERPENT CHARMERS. They speak in tongues.

January 12 2004, 1:28 PM 

The Catholic Encyclopedia under "Candles" denies that she got music from the Bible by confessing that she got it from the pagans:

"We need not shrink from admitting that candles, like incense and lustral water, were commonly employed in pagan worship and in the RITES paid to the DEAD.
...But the Church from a very early period took them into her service, just as she adopted many other things indifferent in themselves, which seemed proper to enhance the splendour of religious ceremonial.

..We must not forget that most of these adjuncts to worship, like music, lights, perfumes, ablutions, floral decorations, canopies, fans, screens, bells, vestments, etc.
....were not identified with any IDOLATROUS CULT in particular;
they were common to almost ALL CULTS.
......They are, in fact, part of the natural language of mystical expression, and such things belong quite as much to SECULAR ceremonial as they do to religion.

Music and BABBLING was an ENCHANTMENT: the lower classes believed that while sacifices they must ATTRACT the "good gods" and "DRIVE AWAY" the "evil spirits" or demons. As the prayed for KING LIKE THE NATIONS the worship of the Monarchy was the WORSHIP like the nations. The "music" which was never so obscene as to enter into the Holy Places as a type of church of Christ was enchantment or EXORCISM. Job asks:

.."Surely the serpent will bite without enchantment; and a BABBLER is no better. Ec.10:11

The "serpent" was not a snake but a Musical Enchanter. While Eve took him to her breast because he QUESTIONED God's Word, He BIT or STUNG her so that we know that "Cain was of that wicked one." Serpent is:

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: Ge.3:2

Nachash (h5172) naw-khash'; a prim. root; prop. to hiss, i. e. whisper a (magic) spell; gen. to prognosticate: - * certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) * enchantment, learn by experience, indeed, diligently observe.

Nachash (h5173) nakh'-ash; from 5172; an incantation or augury: - enchantment.

Nechuwshah (h5154) nekh-oo-shaw'; or nechushah nekh-oo-shaw'; fem. of 5153; copper: - brass, steel. Comp. 5175

Enchantment is SPEAKING IN TONGUES

Lachash (h3908) lakh'-ash; from 3907; prop. a whisper, i. e. by impl. (in a good sense) a private prayer, (in a bad one) an incantation; concr. an amulet: - charmed, earring, enchantment, orator, prayer.

Baal (h1167) bah'-al; from 1166; a master; hence a husband, or (fig.) owner (often used with another noun in modifications of this latter sense): - / ARCHER, / BABBLER, / bird, captain, chief man, / confederate, / have to do, / dreamer, those to whom it is due, / furious, those that are given to it, great, / hairy, he that hath it, have, / horseman, husband, lord, man, / married, master, person, / sworn, they of.

BABBLER IS ALSO

Lashown (h3956) law-shone'; or lashon law-shone'; also (in plur.) fem. lashonah lesh-o-naw'; from 3960; the tongue (of man or anmals), used lit. (as the instrument of licking, eating, of speech), and fig. (speech, an ingot, a FORK of FLAME, a cove or water): - / babbler, bay, / evil speaker, language, talker, tongue, wedge

The Judas Bag or Box and the Musical Triumph Over Connection

It is a little-known mystery that the Judas bag (he was a THIEF) was for "carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments." Judas would be classed along with the clergy who "piped" for Jesus to frighten or panic Him into rising up like a warrior to go into battle against the Romans. Or they would force Him to dance the Dionysos, choral dance which would mark Him as effeminate. Science now knows that music creates the "fight or flight" syndrome and both have a sexual relationship. It didn't work of Jesus.

"But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, Matt 11:16
.."And saying, We have PIPED unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. Matt 11:17

This Judas bag is from the Greek:

Glosokomon (g1101) gloce-sok'-om-on; from 1100 (speaking in tongues) and the base of 2889; prop. a case to keep mouthpieces of wind-instruments in, i.e. (by extens.) a casket or (spec.) purse: - bag.

It is made up of two words:
...1. Glossa (from Strong's g1100) means "speaking in tongues" especially an unacquired one.

...2. Kosmos (g2889) means the "orderly arrangement" or the "adorning" world. this is derived from (g2864) or Komizo which means "TO CARRY OFF."

Kosmos (g2889) kos'-mos; prob. from the base of 2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by impl. the world (in a wide or narrow sense, includ. its inhab., lit. or fig. [mor.]): - adorning, world.

Lashown (H3956) law-shone'; also (in plur.) fem. from 3960; the tongue (of man or anmals), used
...literally. (as the instrument of licking, eating, of speech), and

...figurative. (speech, an ingot, a fork of flame, a cove or water): - babbler, bay, / evil speaker, language, talker, tongue, wedge

lashan (h3960) law-shan'; a prim. root; prop. to lick; but used only as a denom. from 3956;
....to wag the tongue, i. e. to calumniate: - accuse, slander.

spermo-logos I. Picking up seeds. III. as Subst., one who picks up and RETAILS scraps of KNOWLEDGE, an idle babbler, gossip, D. 18.127, Act.Ap.17.18, Ath.8.344c.

lalax a^gos, ho, babbler, croaker: a name of the green frog ( [kerberos] ), and of a bird, Hsch.; cf. babax.

Strange or stammering tongues is much like naba which described the "prophets" who sang with musical instruments and drove themselves into slobering madness to prove that they had contacted a god--

Laeg (h3934) law-ayg'; from 3932; a BUFFON; also a foreigner: - mocker, stammering.

But in mine ADVERSITY they REJOICED, and gathered themselves together: yea, the ABJECTS gathered themselves together AGAINST me, and I knew it not; they did TEAR me, and ceased not: Ps 35:15

With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth. Ps.35:16

lag (h3932) law-ag'; a prim. root; to deride; by impl. (as if IMITATING a foreigner) to speak unintelligibly: - have in derision, laugh (to scorn), mock (on), stammering.

Translating Psalm 41 which promised that JUDAS would not "triumph over" Jesus with instruments and rejoicing:

DSS: Thy members of my Covenant have rebelled
and have MURMURED round about me;
They have gone as talebearers
before the children of mischief
concerning the MYSTERY which Thou hast hidden in me...

All that hate me WHISPER together against me: against me do they DEVISE my HURT. Ps.41:7

Whisper is like speaking in tongues and is related to Nachash or the serpent in the garden of Eden. Playing a LIFELESS INSTRUMENT or CARNAL WEAPON is an attempt to PANIC or TAME Satan. The king of TYRE was AN AGENT of Lucifer who was in the garden of Eden with wind, string and percussion instruments. As bisexual SHE was the "SINGING AND HARP PLAYING PROSTITUTE." Her goal was commerce: steal your tithes and offerings and then your SOULS.

"The serpent (nachash)-CHARMERS usual instrument is the FLUTE. Those who professed the art of taming serpents were called by the Hebrews menachashim, while the art itself was called lachash , (Jer 8:17; Ecc 10:11)" Smith's Dictionary, Serpent.

Nechosheth (h5178) nekh-o'-sheth; for 5154; copper; hence, something made of that metal, i. e. coin, a FETTER fig. base (as compared with gold or silver): - brasen, brass, chain, copper, fetter (of brass), FILTHINESS, steel.

1. Nachuwsh (h5153) naw-khoosh'; appar. pass. part. of 5172 (perh. in the sense of RINGING,
..I. e. BELL-METAL; or from the red color of the
...THROAT of a SERPENT [5175, as denom.]
....when HISSING); COPPERY, i. e.
....Figurative: hard - of brass.

THOUGH I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as SOUNDING BRASS, or a tinkling cymbal (a locust). 1 Cor 13:1

....This "love" love demands that, as Paul told Timothy, that he LABOR as he had, to the point of travail. Then, as a Located Missionary (Rubel Shelly) he could exercise CHARITY. This meant to MINISTER to the destitute in feeding them before they looked for work. It does not mean singing silly MAKING LOVE TO GOD praise songs.

This all came out of Babylon where the MOTHER OF THE GODS stole the power of the ELDERSHIP, MAKING MUSIC and SEXUAL PERVERSION:
..."The symbol of Marduk is the pixax (Akkadian, marru), and his emblematic animal is a composite serpent-dragon (with a name derived from the Sumerian mush-hush, "fire-red dragon"). Finegan, Jack, Myth and Mystery, p. 29, Baker

2. Nachuwshah (h5154) nekh-oo-shaw'; or nchushah nekh-oo-shaw'; fem. of 5153; copper: - brass, steel. Comp. 5175

Is 48 makes 5154 and 5155 parallel

3. Nachylah (h5155) nekh-ee-law'; prob. denom. from 2485; a flute: - [plur.] Nehiloth. (Ps 5:1)

..Chalyl (h2485) khaw-leel'; from 2490; a FLUTE (as perforated): - PIPE.

....Chalal (h2490) khaw-lal'; a prim. root [comp. 2470]; prop. to bore, i. e. (by impl.) to wound,
to dissolve; (bore is to perforate the pipe for melody)
figurative: to
1) PROFANE (a person, place or thing), to break (one's word), to begin (as if by an "opening wedge");
denom.
2) (from 2485) to play (the flute): - begin (* men began), defile, * break, defile,
3) eat (as common things), * first, * gather the grape thereof, * take inheritance,
4) pipe, player on instruments,
5) pollute, (cast as) profane self,
6) PROSTITUTE, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.

The PRAISE word is derived from h2490 and means to "make yourselve vile" as did David when he sang, played, danced and stripped off naked so that he would be HELD IN HONOR by them. The praise word, in turn is the SOURCE of the word LUCIFER.

Lachash (h3908) lakh'-ash; from 3907; prop. a whisper, i. e. by impl. (in a good sense) a private prayer, (in a bad one) an incantation; concr. an amulet: - charmed, earring, enchantment, orator, prayer.

SPEAKING IN TONGUES AS "GIBBERISH" IS SATAN WHISPERING IN THEIR EARS AFTER HE HAS USED MUSIC TO DIVE THEM INTO INSANITY. Real speaking in tongues was the 70 minor dialect recognized by the Greeks.

Baal-lashon is lord of The Tongue
http://www.piney.com/ His221.html
"Never was Satan's wisdom so craftily used as when he secured universal acceptance of this traditional belief:
...for it has succeeded in fixing the attention of mankind on the letter and the means,
...and thus blinding the eyes to the solemn fact that
.....the Fall of man had to do solely with the Word of God,
....and is centered in the sin of believing Satan's lie instead of Jehovah's truth."

Take it or leave it, but the "serpent" Satan used in the garden of Eden was a "musician" or a Nachash where Paul equates speaking in tongues (lachash) to playing musical instuments which cannot speak. Of Jesus:

They have overtaken me in a narrow pass (gap) without escape
And there is no REST for me in my trial.
...They SOUND my CENSURE upon a HARP
...and their MURMURING and storming upon a ZITHER." Ps.41:11

The TRUMPETS or WIND INSTRUMENTS were also the major WEAPONS to drive the enemy into cowardice. In victory, Messiah would MAKE MUSIC on the harps of God which were his LIPS in offering the fruit of the lips.

A BABBLER gets paid or "worshipped" as he/she mocks Jesus with music to SILENCE His words. Speaking in tongues was a SIGN that the Babylonians were trying to destroy Jerusalem.

Ken


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 68.19.219.129 on Jan 12, 2004 2:10 PM


 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.1

Winterfest Babblers

January 15 2004, 10:51 PM 

If you believe the big lie that WINTERFEST is sponsored by Churches of Christ you had better wise up.

This group has always been led by men like Jeff Walling etal who plan to LEAD or SOFTEN your children to make the Satanic connection between MUSIC and WORSHIP.

You can catch up on Jeff Walling here. Note that he suggests to Campus Ministers (youth leaders all) to leave the church of Christ if they cannot TAKE OVER.

http://www.piney.com/WallingInd.html

Whatever your religious group you should not allow the people of the Church of Christ to lead your children into what Hitler call. We will show you that the use of MASS GATHERINGS Hitler and modern cults such as Promise Keepers use the POSTMODERN concept that before THEY can change YOU, they have to induce dissociation or schizophrenia. This can only be done in mass meetings with the use of MIND CONTROL elements of which MUSIC such with booms and clangs is the MOST POWERFUL.

http://www.piney.com/mkv2ch06.html

Don't let them damage your children by COMMERCIAL TRAFFICKERS who "charge for everything."

Ken Sublett


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 68.19.200.87 on Jan 16, 2004 7:51 AM


 
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Bob
(no login)
24.2.15.99

Winterfest

January 17 2004, 2:15 PM 

My kids are at Winterfest right now (in Arlington, TX). The entire youth group and groups from several other churchs go, and it is great. It is great to see so many kids fired up for the right things. They like the teaching, the music, and the fellowship. The more of this in their lives, the better.

 
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Anonymous
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63.84.81.27

Re: Hohenwald Church of Christ, Hohenwald, TN

January 17 2004, 3:03 PM 

If you know the FEATURED ARTISTS at Winterfest then you know the PRIMARY NEST deliberately sowing discord. They advise you to TAKE OVER and music is the tool.

When you see that their DISCIPLES do just that, you should look deeper into the MASS MOVEMENT and the object of their goal. Whatever, their "status" is identical to the ancient Winterfest. It is still the old Winter Festival of mad women. Here are a few notes to prove that the NEW RITUALS they are pushing are ancient paganism:

IF YOU LEAD OR GO TO WINTERFEST THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE PROJECTING TO THE WATCHING WORLD:

"Of particular interest is the way that early modern playwrights, MUSIC theorists, and THEATER apologists addressed this conflated language of the "enemy," by echoing the same connections between sexuality and playing found in the most virulent antitheatrical tracts. As this paper will demonstrate, by "PLAYING"" with the conflated language, these writers defended their art,
---justifying their existence in a society that was both SEDUCED and REPULSED by them. By CLAIMING the polemical antitheatrical language, these players escaped from the ideological MARGINS to which their opponents had tried to relegate them.

THIS IS WHY THE SPIRITUAL MEMBERS FLEE FOR THEIR LIVES WITHOUT KNOWING WHY BUT HAVING A GOOD IDEA:

"Using the artifices of mimesis and COMEDY they pointed out and DEFUSED their opponents' ANXIETIES about MUSIC, THEATER, and SEXUALITY,
....creating a space for players in the cultural mainstream."

"According to Greek tradition, the actor and playwright Thespis invented the drama when he augmented the chorus of the dithyramb with a single actor who wore masks to portray several different characters.

Comedy (from Greek komos, meaning "revel") was presented competitively in Athens from 486 BC at the LENAEA WINTER FESTIVAL, though it fused much earlier traditions of popular entertainment, mime, phallic rites, and revelry in honour of Dionysus.

WHEN THE JEWS PIPED (JUDAS WAS A PIPER) THEY INTENDED TO SEDUCE JESUS INTO THE PHALLIC SINGING AND DANCING.

"At the Pasadena church, James Ryle, chaplain of the University of Colorado football team, is telling the congregation how Jesus freed him from his own demons -- growing up in an orphanage
--and serving jail time for selling drugs. He tells many JOKES about his missing middle finger, lost to a lawn mower. There are waves of TEAR-wiping laughter.

"Ryle makes SOUND effects, including some ANIMAL noises. He snaps his fingers, bangs the podium, paces and tells how God will appear here in suits of fire, oil, water. "You will feel! And the glory of the Lord will PUT you DOWN!" ("A Rush of Ecstasy and Alarm," Carol McGraw)

Jeff Walling does that too and ridiculing the church brings on lots of laughter.

Athenian There is a tradition or story, which has somehow crept about the world,
--that Dionysus was robbed of his wits by his stepmother Hera,
--and that out of revenge he inspires Bacchic furies and dancing madnesses in others;
--for which reason he gave men wine.

Such traditions concerning the gods I leave to those who think that they may be safely uttered; I only know that no animal at birth is mature or perfect in intelligence; and in the intermediate period,
--in which he has not yet acquired his own proper sense, he rages and roars without rhyme or reason;
--and when he has once got on his legs he jumps about without rhyme or reason; and this, as you will remember,
--has been already said by us to be the origin of music and gymnastic.

Athenian Is not the origin of gymnastics, too, to be sought in the tendency to rapid motion which exists in all animals; man, as we were saying,
--having attained the sense of rhythm, created and invented dancing; and melody arousing and awakening rhythm, both united formed the choral art?

Jesus refused to either SING or DANCE and cast out the musical minstrels.

Mass meetings intend to hurt you. But if you are AWAKE it will tell you lots about those who promote the ancient WINTER FESTIVALS of mad women.

Ken Sublett


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 67.32.207.145 on Jan 17, 2004 6:35 PM


 
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Sad
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68.114.139.65

concerned member . .

April 7 2004, 10:54 AM 

Your attitude and posts have made me ashamed to call myself a Christian. If that is what you are trying to do, Mr. Sublett, then you're doing a good job. So if you're looking to discourage - Keep it up Mr. Sublett. Keep it up.

 
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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.8

sad

April 7 2004, 4:39 PM 

I am about 100% sure that you could not define CHRISTIAN nor could you define CHURCH. But, give it a try. Honest request. Then give the blue stuff a click. Ken

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=150389&messageid=1077396184&lp=1081347861


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 68.19.206.133 on Apr 7, 2004 5:58 PM


 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.144

Christ WHO IS?

April 15 2004, 6:41 PM 

I'd be ashamed too if I couldn't or wouldn't define the meaning of a CHRISTIAN.

A Christian is a CHRISTian or a follower of Christ: I know of no churches which have not lost their candlestick just as prophecy promises. Paul said that you have to go OUTSIDE THE CAMP or CITY or the presence of the TEMPLE to find Jesus Christ.

One of the MARKS of a cast off church is the lust for MUSIC where Musicaspeaks of "magic"or the word "exegesis"where pseudo prophets violate Peter's law against private interpretation which is further expounding that which God in Christ has expounded and left for our reading or learning. All of these "offices" which stand between God and the believer to replace Jesus Christ intend to shut down the flow of information which defines the seven spirits which rested on Jesus (Isa 11:1-4).

Another lust is to cast off CHRIST from a groups identifier or WITNESS to the community. "Community" speaks of commune and Family in the Greek culture spoke of a DOMINANT FATHER who had the power of life and death over the "family" just like modern cults. The use of ekklesia or a form of synagogue in the Greek language speaks of CALLED MEETINGS. When the meeting disbands, the "gathering" or synagoguing of the individual CEASES just like a weekly drafting class DOES NOT attempt to control your life as a cult or COMMUNITY.

Some may believe that THE CHURCH OF GOD is the title of ownership. What they miss is the latter-day, 20the century among churches of Christ who UNIQUELY identify God as a Family of Gods: three persons (people). The Father, Son and Spirit have a name: Jesus Christ as Peter applied the "baptismal formula."

If you can listen and learn we will show why you should understand that GOD is derived from GAD the hostile tribe and the "god of fortunes." The name of GOD has always been a form of Jesus or Joshua or Jehovah-Saves. God came as His Christ and while the term CHURCH OF GOD is frequently the testimony is that it is IN CHRIST because that is God's Name for us.

What you call "church" is undoubtedly a system of witchcraft as some of the "preachers" are promoting to "get the feeling." Jesus Christ founded a synagoge and invited the twos and threes to COME LEARN OF ME. Learning and not witchcraft ritual is what a DISCIPLE is supposed to do. Before that can happen a believer must be baptized as a request for God to give them A holy spirit or A good conscience, consiousness or a co-perception of the Word. If you lack that hunger and thirst you have not requested discipleship from God in Christ.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=150389&messageid=1077396184&lp=1082062435

If you don't believe the charge of WITCHCRAFT you should read some Lynn Anderson or Rubel Shelly who has added AFFLICTION by preaching that individuals SHOULD NOT read and interpret the Bible outside the COMMUNE. Sure, people who project CHARISMA should read the Greek meaning to see that it means more than projecting FEAR just as the MUSICA and CANTUS words project sorcery or fear to open your mouth. Don't ever tell me that this is not a local dogma. Part of the Grace Centered group is very specific by defining WITCHCRAFT as the "RULE for the Emerging Church of Christ."

http://www.piney.com/FPRSpectacle.html


Ken

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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Not the only Christians

January 31 2004, 8:19 AM 

Watch out for pacifists: they will kill you.

In the same way, watch out for preachers of UNITY because they will and HAVE divided you by total IGNORANCE of the Word. They will hurt you real bad if you don't have any urge to fellowship charismatics where this practice has always been a sign of music-induced madness but primarily among women and always by the lower classes (history says so)

Now, the next total arrogance is to justify DIVISION by refusing to promote UNITY is the oxy-moron: "WE are ONLY Christians but NOT the ONLY Christians." Are there Christians among the SECTS? Jesus would say, "What is that to YOU: feed my sheep." A SHEPHERD would never do the promise keeper's insanity and BREAK DOWN THE WALLS. That is exactly what God did when Israel turned to wine, women and song resulting in hunger and thirst for the Word. The BEAST came in and consumed the nation which God had EXPLICITLY WARNED against "fellowship" with other "religions."

Well, there is ample reason to dispute the Christianity of people who--fueled by Biblical illiteracy--DELIBERATELY sow discord and make the name CHURCH OF CHRIST (wot pays u) into a stink, a hiss and a byword.

The frog spirits coming out of the mouth of apostate universities claim, as if they were sane, that Thomas Campbell told them so. But THAT is a great big lie and liars are not Christians. Here is what Campbell said but THEY will pick what they choose.

Lunenburg, July 8th, 1837.

"Dear brother Campbell-- I WAS much surprised to-day, while reading the Harbinger, to see that you recognize the Protestant parties as Christian. You say, you 'find in all Protestant parties Christians.'

"Dear brother, my surprize and ardent desire to do what is right, prompt me to write to you at this time. I feel well assured, from the estimate you place on the female character, that you will attend to my feeble questions in search of knowledge.

"Will you be so good as to let me know how any one becomes a Christian? What act of yours gave you the name of Christian? At what time had Paul the name of Christ called on him? At what time did Cornelius have Christ named on him? Is it not through this name we obtain eternal life?

Does the name of Christ or Christian belong to any but those who believe the gospel, repent, and are buried by baptism into the death of Christ?"

Campbell responds based on the fact that the Restored church did not exist. Therefore, there MUST have been christians in all of the SECTS. Campbell believed that he was a Christian when he had been sprinkled but he learned better. He thought that he was a Christian as a Presbyterian until he offered communion to presbyterians NOT of his sect: the Presbyterians turned him out. He thought that he was a Christian as a Baptist because they IMMERSED but he knew better and preached better and THEY TURNED HIM OUT.

He said:

"Many a good man has been mistaken. Mistakes are to be regarded as culpable and as declarative of a corrupt heart only when they proceed from a wilful neglect of the means of knowing what is commanded.

"Ignorance is always a crime when it is VOLUNTARY; and innocent when it is INVOLUNTARY.

IN FACT THERE IS NO FORGIVENESS FOR SOWING DISCORD WITH A HIGH HAND

ANY CHRISTIANS AMONG THE SECTS?

"JUDGING from numerous letters received at this office, my reply to the sister from Lunenburg has given some pain to our brethren, and some pleasure to our sectarian friends.

"The builders up of the parties tauntingly say to our brethren, "Then we are as safe as you," and "You are coming over to us, having now conceded the GREATEST OF ALL POINT--viz. that immersion is not essential to a Christian."

The builders of the SECTARIAN party in confiscated property have CONCEDED for the once-owners what only ARROGANCE would concede and THERE IS NO REMEDY.

Some of our brethren seem to think that we have neutralized much that has been said on the importance of baptism for remission, and disarmed them of much of their artillery against the ignorance, error, and indifference of the times upon the whole subject of Christian duty and Christian privilege.

That means that disposing of Baptism (yes you have) the INFILTRATERS and DIVERTERS have conceded the ONE PLACE where unity is possible.

Skipping ahead:

I. With all despatch, then, I hasten to show that I have neither conceded nor surrendered any thing for which I ever contended; but that on the contrary, the opinion now expressed, whether true or false, is one that I have always avowed.
....(Footnote in original reads: It is with us as old as baptism for the remission of sins, and this is at least as old as the "Christian Baptist." Read the first two numbers of that work.)

1. Let me ask, in the first place, what could mean all that we have written upon the union of Christians on apostolic grounds, had we taught that all Christians in the world were already united in our own community?

Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

2. And in the second place, why should we so often have quoted and applied to apostate Christendom what the Spirit saith to saints in Babylon--"Come out of her, my people , that you partake not of her sins, and that you receive not of her PLAGUES"--had we imagined that the Lord had no people beyond the pale of our communion!

3. But let him that yet doubts, read the following passages from the Christian Baptist, April, 1825:--

"I have no idea of seeing, nor wish to see, the sects unite in one grand army.
This would be dangerous to our liberties and laws. For this the Saviour did not pray.


If there are CHRISTIANS AMONG THE SECTS CAMPBELL AND JESUS WANTS THEM CALLED: THE MEANING OF THE EKKLESIA.

It is only the disciples dispersed among them that reason and benevolence would call out of them, "&c. &c. This looks very like our present opinion of Christians among the sects!!! 2d ed. Bethany, p. 85.

4. Again, speaking of purity of speech in order to the union of Christians, we say, "None of you [Christians] have ever yet attempted to show how Christians can be united on your principles. You have often showed how they may be divided, and how each party may hold its own, but while you pray for the visible unity of the disciples, and advocate their visible disunity, we cannot understand you." March, 1827, vol. 4.

10. But in the last place in the first Extra on Baptism for Remission of Sins, we exclude from the pale of Christianity of the Pedobaptists, none but such of them as "wilfully neglect this salvation, and who, having the opportunity to be immersed for the remission of sins, wilfully neglect or refuse"--"of such," indeed, but of none others, we say, "We have as little hope for them as they have for all who refuse salvation on their own terms of the gospel." 1st Extra, 1st ed. p. 53.

By quoting UNITY out of John 17 there is INTENTION TO DECEIVE. I will look at the whole chapter later. The LUST for unity is the LUST for recognition, acceptance and POWER.

The URGE to fellowship EVERYONE by refusing fellowship to the OWNERS OF THE HOUSE brings down the Hebrews 6 principle and "there is no more sacrifice for sins."

No one but people BETRAYING their fellowship would buy this junk: certainly, others will accept your attendance and MONEY but YOU will not be allowed to PERFORM in their churches and DRIVE AWAY their member. THEY are not fools but foolers.

Ken Sublett


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 68.154.172.114 on Jan 31, 2004 8:49 AM


 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.88

OCU meets ICOC with ARTIST WORSHI

February 1 2004, 11:57 AM 

Dittoing Max Lucado and Lynn Anderson, the latest sermon from John York (lipscomb) and Rubel Shelly show that becoming COMMUNITY or COMMUNE to experience Whole Life Discipleship (in an institution) will LEAD YOU TO JESUS.

This is the Next Wave or XWave

http://www.piney.com/RS.Discipling.2.1.html

The Purpose Driven Cult has the same goal of shepherding you while using the MUSICA "locusts" to HURT you real bad and tell YOU that they are LEADING YOU TO JESUS.

Don't let them fool you: the Pharisees are NOT those who honor the direct commands of Jesus about Baptism. The Pharisees, Scribes and Hypocrites were all SECTARIANS of the "worship" type. A Pharisee will sing you a song or preach you a sermon or PRAY a long prayer for you (over and over and over thinking that you will be heard from MUCH praying) but FOR A PRICE--ALWAYS FOR A PRICE.

MUSICA is often connected to PHARISEE in the Greek literature.

The MUSICA or CANTUS word speaks of people who claim to EXCITE you with SPIRITUAL feelings but the REAL effort of the Apollo (Abaddon or Apollyon) Muses is to FRIGHTEN YOU OUT OF YOUR WITS. Sure, they tell you that the EVIL-SMELLING AND TASTING Booze creates a positive influence.

When Paul said DON'T GET DRUNK ON WINE he pointed to the SINGING AND MUSIC of the pagan worshipers who SPOKE out of being INTOXICATED ON IGNORANCE:

kat-auleô, charm by flute-playing,PHOEBE I will flute to you on a ghastly flute, of persons, methuôn kai katauloumenos drinking wine to the strains of the flute,

PHOBOS meaning "panic fear, such as causes flight

Phobos was APOLLO or in Revelation Abaddon or Apollyon. He was the founder of the SEEKER CENTER and the "father of the twanging bow string to send SINGING arrows into your heart, musical harmony, thieves and liars." His ARROWS, like those of Pan and Cupid have double meanings. 'no wat i mean?'

He USED the muses of Revelation 18:22 as part of his team. They lie HIDDEN under the LOCUSTS (musical performers aroused by Apollyon) which SORT OUT those with different MARKS. They have scorpion stings in their tail and rather than feelings peddled as SPIRITUAL they are driving YOU into PANIC so that you CANNOT hear the words of Jesus Christ. That has ALWAYS been lucifer's (Zoe) role beginning in heaven and the garden of Eden. His STING of Eve produced CAIN (a musical note) who was OF THAT WICKED ONE and the father of those who HANDLE (meaning without authority) the musical instruments of Satan.

Because of their nature, this we are told by ancient scholars works ONLY on women and effeminate men.

Ken


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 68.154.172.114 on Feb 1, 2004 12:46 PM


 
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Keneth Sublett
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63.84.81.83

Slander Grimes

February 6 2004, 6:05 PM 

The Grimes family has been big-time and well talented singers in the Hohenwald Church--forever. I knew and loved Mike's Mom and Dad totally. I din't try to figure him out but I don't believe that he would lie-unless he was telling an old FRONTIER HOHENWALD JOKE. I often asked him to warn me when he was about to die: I wanted to pickle his vocal cords.

Mike returned to find the church in Hohenwald consumed with effeminate singing which made the hair stand on the heads of about a hundred people with people defecting still.

He talked to people and they confimed their false beliefs about baptism proven by hiring a preacher who knew BEFOREHAND that he would be USED. As a result of all of the deliberate Purpose Driven Cult heresy-- including acquiring a fan of the cult. This import immediately began sowing discord about how women were ABUSED when not allowed to PERFORM like male PERFORMERS.

Mike and JoAnne wrote a letter to the members reporting his conversation. When getting no good response but verbal abuse they wrote the letter. Another letter had already been read publically by a resigning deacon which the same OFFICE GOSSIP tries to blacken.

The Hohenwald "leaders" publically labeled them as LIARS and SLANDERERS but never said that their SPY-LIKE agenda was false. They have whimpered some weasel words about baptism.

When people call (close to the inside) I ask: "Is Mike Grimes a liar?" The answer is always: No.

Now the Hohenwald group has mailed their own letter trying to discredit Mike and Joanne for belonging to the "Sacred Harp Singers." Now, dummies, they don't use a MECHANICAL HARP but the HARPS God gave them. They don't do WORSHIP SERVICES and do not use instruments.

Hohenwald does not hesitate to allow female singers belonging to a chorus to stand up and sing. They always do the DING DONG closing prayer to say that "This is NOT any longer a worship service." If someone wanted to use the Hohenwald "plant" to hold a seminar about finances to probably sell insurance and Mutual Funds, they do not consider it a WORSHIP SERVICE. Music AS worship is evil when history knows and the practice proves a deliberate intent to SILENCE the voice of a Holy God.

A Memorial is not a worship service: women often sing or even speak at memorials. Meeting in a CHURCH HOUSE does not make singing evil. From the POSTED PICTURE any one with an IQ as long as their age can see that this is NOT in the SANCTUARY but in a class room. Click here to see how desparate people are to DISCREDIT good and "BELIEVABLE" people to MAKE themselves look SCRIPTURAL:

http://www.cs.uky.edu/~raphael/fasola.html

If Joann "preached" it would STILL not make the Hohenwald deliberate sowing of discord correct.

This is the typical effort to MASK their own heresy and deliberate sowing of discord by BLACKENING THE NAMES of anyone who DARES question the dominant leaders.

The EXISTING elders do not believe the ATTEMPT AT SMEARING: they DO NOT believe that Mike is a Liar but they HAVE to go along using the CONCENSUS leadership scam.

Ken Sublett


    
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Del
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207.65.228.67

Agreement of Elders???

February 7 2004, 9:10 AM 

I have to disagree slightly with Ken regarding a concensus of the Elders. They appear to all have the age, experience and education to know the difference in right from wrong. They are in agreement in this apostasy or else they would have publicly stated their disagreement long ago. Surely some of them are not under satans spell but their silence makes it obvious that they are.

It may or may not be too late now. I am not sure which congregation would risk them teaching their children. The scriptures show that it can happen and an attacker can become an ally. They may not all be in agreement regarding this attack on such a fine couple but their silence speaks volumes. For sure all of them know better.

I am positive all of them, knowing the Grimes family as they must, that a Grimes bashing is totally wrong and uncalled for. Mike and Joanne were fully aware of the transition, confronted the elders and preacher and received their heart-breaking news confirming all that they had previously believed. Yes, they were and still are heart broken as are so many, many other dedicated men and women of the congregation and those outside this church.

Many families have been split and one has to wonder if these elders and temporary preachers are totally happy with the harm they have caused to these families, the Hohenwald church, other churches in this county and the cause of Christ everywhere.

This bashing is what politicians do when they feel they are going under and reaching for that last straw.
I believe the Elders of the Hohenwald Church are going under(I know the congregation is) and who knows what else they will attempt in an effort to totally destroy this fine church.

It is time, and hopefully not too late, to take back this church and remove those leaders, preacher, and their faithful followers from a controlling position.

Mike and Joanne are fine people who need our support and those who choose to stoop lower than a snakes belly are in serious spiritual trouble.

Del


 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.75

Grimes Letter: SIGNED

February 7 2004, 10:58 AM 

Because the Hohenwald church does the jab and repent over and over, you should read the letter which they hate.

They publically labelled these fine people as liars and slanderers: a fine way for "youngers" to act.

http://www.piney.com/mike.JoAnn.html

Mike and Jo Ann state: "This movement is never fully announced, is slow to happen and is done in a less than open fashion until it is too late. The tactic subscribed to by the purpose driven church is advance and retreat. Take it slow. Try a desired change and if too much criticism is received from the members of the congregation then back off or retreat. Advance or try it again a little later when the guard is down. These changes usually allow for denominational preachers filling our pulpit and our preacher and other church leaders preaching in denominational churches."

Never let these people off the hook or you will be swallowing their Anti-Christ heresy and it will be a well-rotted red herring.

Ken Sublett


    
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Kenneth Sublett
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Judgementalists

February 15 2004, 5:27 PM 

Leadership Hohenwald church of Christ written confirmation: "We are against thinking that is judgmental, legalistic, and that denies the sovereignty of god. We serve a mighty God, and our words and our thoughts should reflect that. We will not sit on our corner saying that we are the only ones going to heaven and deny the FAITH of other BELIEVERS.

Whe you have no defense you always accuse your questioner with being Judgmental, legalistic or sectarian. God is SOVEREIGN but they deny God the POWER to "judge" what standard He will use to accept DISCIPLES into His spiritual kingdom.

To pass judgment is to do something violent against people by pronouncing a SENTENCE which in Hohenwald has been executed with a vengeance. Notice what Jesus said:

JUDGE not, that ye be not judged. Matt 7:1

Krino (g2919) kree'-no; prop. to distinguish, i.e. decide (mentally or judicially); by impl. to TRY, condemn, PUNISH: - AVENGE, conclude, condemn, DAMN, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think..

Calling people LEGALISTS because the believe in the Bible but NOT in their heresy is the most JUDGMENTAL statement one could make. If you EXECUTE THE SENTENCE by EXILING those who once trusted you they 'THOU ART THE MEN."

Judgment in the Greek world meant to "bring to a crisis"

Krisis (g2920) kree'-sis; decision (subj. or obj., for or against); by extens. a tribunal; by impl. justice (spec. divine law): - accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matt 7:2

Krima (g2917) kree'-mah; from 2919; a decision (the function or the effect, for or against ["crime"]): - avenge, condemned, condemnation, damnation, / go to law, judgment.

This is SPECIFICIALLY crashed onto the heads of the Scribes who "wrote and delivered sermons" and were also Pharisees or burden laders. The Pharisees also PASS JUDGMENT and pass judgment by "imposing a tax." The Hypocrites were the performance preachers, singers and musicians. They performed the role of SORCERY and were all called PARASITES.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites for ye devour widows houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Matt 23:14

Krino includes to: separate, put asunder, distinguish, expound, interpret in a particular way, pass sentence upon, condemn, decide or judge that, the sum adjudged to be paid, similar word means: give judgement or sentence against a person.

They use PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE ON YOU to make you fear to DECIDE in righteous judgment that CHARISMATICS are equated in the Greek world to HEDONISTS and their "worship" depends on VOLUPTIOUS "idolatry of the eye and ear."

Ken


    
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Kenneth Sublett
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More ATTACKS: notes on MUSICA meaning TRIBULATION

February 20 2004, 10:18 AM 

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=150389&messageid=1077116417

We will be looking at the elder's claim that "calling on the name of the Lord saves" from Romans 10.

Ken Sublett


    
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Anonymous
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63.84.81.69

Re: Hohenwald Church of Christ, Hohenwald, TN

February 20 2004, 11:28 AM 

Max Lucado has formulated a new PLAN OF SALVATION. It says, "Just call God your father and you are a child of God." Or perhaps you just recognize that all creation must have a creator god and you are saved. Consistent with their mentors including Rubel Shelly the JUST JESUS is the only way WE HAVE CHOSEN to define a BELIEVER. The Bible says that a disciple is made by BAPTIZING and TEACHING what Jesus taught (financial planning doesn't count). It further says that a DISCIPLE is a CHRISTIAN. Therefore, the Bible and history knows of no UNbaptized "believer."

http://www.piney.com/mike.JoAnn.html

I. Meeting with Elder

"We were told that we can and should JOIN FORCES with our denominational firiends to EVANGELIZE Lewis County. There are 12,000 people in Lewis County and only 2,000 go to church someplace. It is better to go to SOME church than no church at all. We believe 95% of the same things that our denominational friends believe and therefore we should MINIMIZE the differences and concentrate on the similarities.
    People who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved and therefore these people ARE New Testament Christians.

    even though they HAVE NOT OBEYED the gospel plan of salvation.

    Grace reaches ALL people.

    We can worship with THEM and our worship will be acceptable to God.
Leadership Hohenwald church of Christ written confirmation: "We are against thinking that is JUDGMENTAL, legalistic, and that denies the sovereignty of god. We serve a mighty God, and our words and our thoughts should reflect that. We will not sit on our corner saying that we are the only ones going to heaven and deny the FAITH of other BELIEVERS.


There is no exception to the Biblical rule that there is NO SUCH THING as an unbaptized believer. One who believes but does not obey what they believe are defined by the Greek language as APISTOS: Treacherous.

It is not possible to be more judgmental than to deny God the SOVEREIGN right to describe how he will "save by grace through faith." The Calvinists cannot read the first part of Ephesians 2 which defines how the SOVEREIGN CHRIST bestowed his grace by having the RIGHT to tell others that they have the RIGHT to connect with his earthly work by being baptized to rise with Him.

The PURPOSE DRIVEN is a CULT and one of the LEGALISTIC LAWS is that no one is any longer able to express their opinion about some anti-biblical practice of ANOTHER church. I say that the local "leaders" have a KEEPER just as Promise Keeper's SHEPHERDING has turn to "INFILTRATION." The EMBEDDED SPY reports back to headquarters and the locals are so charismaticlly attached that they DARE NOT slip up on following "HEADQUARTERS."

    Leadership Hohenwald church of Christ:Instead, we want to UNITE with other Christians as it is in the best interest of this church family...whether they be believers from other churches of Christ or believers from other churches.
But, Paul warned:
    Next on my list of items to write you about is something else I cannot agree with. For it sounds as if more harm than good is done when you meet together for your communion services. 1 Cor 11:17LIV

    Or: "In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 1 Cor 11:17NIV
But, Jesus warned:
    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mt.7:21
Jesus promised to build an ekklesia or synagogue or school of the Bible and not a pagan worship center. Just how can one GIVE HEED to the Word as "worship" while watching a charismatic "worship ritual"? Charismatic means HEDONISTIC in the Greek. When the ekklesia ASSEMBLES Paul used a SYNAGOGUE word. The purpose was to GIVE HEED to the Word as a way to GIVE HEED to God in Christ. NOTHING these people do is remotely connected to the worship of God. Paul warned us to use REVERENCE and GODLY FEAR because GOD IS STILL A CONSUMING FIRE.

Charismatic is defined by the word hedone [hedomai] which means:

1. delight, enjoyment, pleasure, Lat. voluptas, Hdt., etc.; hedonei hessasthai, charizesthai to give way to pleasure, Thuc., Plat., etc.:--often with Prepositions in adv. sense, pros or kath' hedonen legein to speak so as to please another

The terms ECSTASY and CHARISMATIC carries the meaning of MOCKING. They are directly related to the OPHIS serpent and in term directly related to eye-captivating performance in the theater. This charismatic worship with tongues speaks of PLEASING or PLEASURING the "dominant leader." When they fall out of love the tongue speaking and out-of-your mind "worship" ceases.

Ken Sublett


    
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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