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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.66

Music=SECTARIANISM=Sorcery

February 21 2004, 8:43 AM 

Christianity Today noted that one Methodist church had FIVE MUSICAL SECTS meeting in the same building. And it is a fact that people who rejected trying to worship IN THEIR SPIRIT with a pipe organ became the ONLY SECTARIANS in the first Restoration Not surprising, the Greek world understood that and Paul SOLVED the unity in diversity in Romans 15 by defining the ASSEMBLY as a synagogue where the MARK of faithfulness was that everyone spoke the same thing from "that which is written."

In addition to Pharisees and Hypocrites (actors) the group includes rhetoricians, sOPHISts (serpents), singers and musicians whose SECOND LEVEL performance was called SORCERY and the performers were parasites (the Pharisees performed and made the widows pay). For instance:

The word musica or mousikê, the art of music, i. e. comic and dramatic poetry, musice antiquis temporibus tantum venerationis

..mousikos

....I. of or for music, musical, Ar., Thuc., etc.; ta mousika music, Xen.; v. mousikê.

....II. of persons, skilled in music, a votary of the Muses, a man of letters and accomplishment, a scholar, more accomplished in speaking

His speaking art is lego [!lech] to lay asleep, lull to sleep,

Similar meaning:

..exe-ge-tice , the art of interpretation, exegesis,

....magice- ,magikê (sc. technê), the magic art, magic, sorcery, medicinam magices factio, id. 30, 1, 2, § 11 .

......magi-a , ae, f., = mageia, the science of the Magi, magic, sorcery

magices or techne factio

..factio , o-nis, f. [id.]

....II. a taking part or siding with any one; hence concr.) A company of persons associated or acting together, a class, order, sect, faction, party (syn.: pars, partes, causa, REBELLIO, SEDITIO

....B. In partic., a company of political adherents or partisans, a party, side, faction

..secta , prop., a trodden or beaten way, a path; footsteps; hence, trop., a (prescribed) way, mode, manner, method, principles of conduct or procedure, sectam , a party, faction, sect.

..Mageia (g3095) mag-i'-ah; from 3096; "magic": - sorcery.

..cantus , u-s, m. [id.] , the production of melodious sound, a musical utterance or expression, either with voice or instrument; hence, song, singing, playing, music

....2. With INSTRUMENTS, a playing, music: in nervorum

.....Nervus , i, m. [root snar-; Old Germ. snara, a snare; Gr. neuron; cf. parvus and pauros] , a sinew, tendon, nerve.

....An incantation, charm, magic song, etc.: cantusque artesque magorum

..rhythmi(ce- , e-s, f., = rhuthmikê, sc. technê, the art of observing rhythm: rhythmice est ars omnis in numeris, Mart. Cap. 9, § 969 .

With Similar Meaning

..1. spectio , o-nis, f. [specio] , in the language of augurs, an observing of the auspices; hence, also, the right of observing them (which belonged to the magistrates), Varr. L. L. 6, § 82 Müll.; Cic. Phil. 2, 32, 81; Fest. s. h. v. p. 333.

..2. histrionia , ae, f. (sc. ars) [id.], the art of stage-playing, dramatic art: facere histrioniam, to assume the CHARACTER of an actor

.... Must be the center of attention.
.... Displays inappropriate sexually provocative behavior.
.... Expressions of emotions that are shallow and unbelievable.
.... Come across as fakes and phonies.
.... Great emphasis on physical appearance to attract attention.
.... Theatrical, exaggerates, and uses speech that is vague and lacking in detail.
.... Easily swayed by others.
.... Considers friendships and relationships to be far more intimate than they are.


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 67.32.218.212 on Feb 21, 2004 10:48 AM


 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.10

Romans 10: Not saved by Calling

February 24 2004, 8:30 AM 

Max Lucado denies everything that Jesus, Peter, Paul and church history say about baptism. If one CALLS God "Father" then one becomes a SON. Umm...well, maybe just look into the sky and agree that God created it all. One should not be surprized that a person who FICTIONALIZED the word of God and, according to Rubel Shelly "take liberties" will ADD and subtract which, according to both Peter and Paul, marks them as false teachers. To then make that TRUE DOCTRINE and have elders sign on is unforgivable.

Jesus defined his Godly role as SON by speaking only what He heard from the Father within as THOUGHT.

The disciples of Max are blinded by a flash of light while THEY are on the road to persecute believers claim that Paul was defining CALLING on the Name of the Lord as the only requirement for being a CHRISTIAN. Then, we must WORSHIP WITH them even if we drive off a hundred members who OWN the property in order to the Purpose Driven Sinfulness of bringing other peoples belief into question. That has become more than a "good idea" to them but a DOGMA for which they will do violence against their "sheep."

However, Paul stopped at Romans 8 and "preaced a synagogue sermon" in chapters 9-11 in order to DISPEL the notion of the Jews that they could CALL ON the name of Father Abraham and He would prevent ANYJEW from going to hell. Paul dispelled the PREDESTINATION THEME and taught that God's predestinated plan is that BOTH Jew and Gentile call upon the name of Jesus Christ. The task is not to give them a multi-step salvation process but to get them to see that they, like the Gentiles, will have to OWN Jesus Christ in order to be saved.

BRETHREN, my hearts desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. Rom 10:1

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. Rom 10:2

For they, being IGNORANT of Gods righteousness, and going about to establish THEIR own righteousness, have NOT SUBMITTED themselves unto the righteousness of God. Rom 10:3


Submitting is the Greek Hupotasso (g5293) hoop-ot-as'-so; from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate; reflex. to OBEY: - be UNDER OBEDIENT (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
    And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the HEAD over all things to the CHURCH, Ep.1:22
God in Christ ADDS those who OBEY Him in Baptism to the church because they are SAVED only after they JUSTIFY God by NOT calling Him a liar. Jesus said that those who BELIEVE and are BAPTIZED shall be Saved. Those who do not believe this are identified by Jesus as TREACHEROUS INFIDELS because they do not SUBMIT to anyone--even God.
    The like figure (Anti-Type or "form of doctrine" A DIVINE PATTERN) whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 3:21

    Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. 1 Peter 3:22

For Christ is the END of the law FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to every one that believeth. Rom 10:4

The LAW is contrasted to THE FAITH. Christ ended the Law but He died to make us righteous as the LAW of public rituals COULD NOT. The FAITH is THE Christian system. Christ saves us in the WAY which begins at the Cross.

For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man doeth those things shall live by them. Rom 10:5

At Mount Sinai, God gave Israel THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT. In return for God's GRACE, they rose up to PLAY in musical idolatry. The "sent across the sea" or ascended or descended in musical rituals because they REPUDIATED the Words of God. Moses told them that RITUALS were vain because God spoke through His COVENANT. God turned them over to the worship of the Astral deities such as Chiun or Saturn or 666. He is now Apollo or Abbadon or Apollyon and the LOCUSTS are his MUSES or performers listed in Revelation 18:22. Therefore, as Paul warned Corinth that this was DEMON WORSHIP in 1 Cor 10, in Romans 10 he warns the JEWS that failure at Mount Sinai was caused by failure to OBEY the Book of the Covenant. The PLAY or "because of transgression" was MUSICAL IDOLATRY of the Egyptian triad:

But the righteousness which is of faith SPEAKETH on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ASCEND into HEAVEN? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Rom 10:6

Musical and Charismatic actually CLAIMS to help you ascend up to Christ to sing and play with you. This was what the Israelites were doing.

In Romans 10 and 1 Cor 10 Paul points to the MUSICAL IDOLATRY of the Egyptian TRIAD. This was BULL worship or DEMON worship. God saw this as their PRAYER to restore Egyptian idolaty which included perversity. Stephen was murdered in part by explaining that God TURNED them over to worship the STARRY HOST. All musical worship points directly in the Greek world to the worship of the STARS. The evil is that they worshipped the WORKS OF THEIR OWN HAND and not the Creator. The LAW was not "God's best shot for the culture." Rather, a priesthood which kept the people out of the Tabernacle and the Book of the Law whose "laws were not good" was to PHYSICALLY protect them as they led their children into CANAAN LAND. Ascending and Descending points to the worship of the Egyptian Trinity. Osiris was sent "across the sea" after dismembering him. Isis sought him but could never find his PRIVATE PART. That is why all SPECTACLE WORSHIP and church steeples tries to supply his phallic member.

Or, Who shall DESCEND into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ AGAIN from the dead.) Rom 10:7

"Believer's Baptism invented by Zwingli in 1525 as adopted by many Baptists demand that Christ must come again and die for them at baptism. Or some believe that they BECOME christs and DIE FOR THEIR OWN SINS. Certainly their favorite THIEF ON THE CROSS confessed and DIED on the Cross for his OWN sins.

But what saith it? The WORD is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of FAITH, which we PREACH; Rom 10:8

The WORD of faith tells us how to IDENTIFY the faith which is activing and SAVING.

That if thou shalt CONFESS with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE in thine heart that God hath RAISED him from the DEAD, thou shalt be saved. Rom 10:9

Refusing to be Baptized by John was refusing to Confess.

But, our guys say NO: just call on the name of the Lord. In the insanity of the lucado and Shelly world that means something like: "hay Jesus" or just acknowledge the creation.
    And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, JUSTIFIED God, being baptized with the baptism of John. Luke 7:29
To JUSTIFY GOD is to confess that He is RIGHTEOUS in telling us what to do to be saved. Those who rejected God's counsel confessed that God was a LIAR and not righteous.
    But the Pharisees and lawyers REJECTED the counsel of God against themselves, being NOT baptized of him. Luke 7:30
To BELIEVE and BAPTIZE is the PURPOSE of preaching the gospel: to MAKE DISCIPLES (Students and not gender confused "worshipers") by ----

Baptizing AND teaching what Jesus taught. These are infinitives: you cannot make a DISCIPLE to Christ without BELIVEING what Christ commanded, Being baptized and then joining yourself to a SYNAGOGUE or school of the Bible. A DISCIPLE is a CHRISTIAN or follower of student of Christ and His Word. There are no Christians which have not been baptized.
    Nevertheless among the chief rulers also MANY BELIEVED on him; but BECAUSE of the Pharisees they DID NOT CONFESS, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: Jn.12:42
The Pharisees were the professional preachers. The Greek resources prove that these EXEGETES or "further expounders" and rhetoricians CLAIMED to be more spiritually enlightened than others. Why ELSE could they demand a WAGE for muddling the free Word.

In addition to Pharisees and Hypocrites (actors) the group includes rhetoricians, sOPHISts (serpents), singers and musicians whose SECOND LEVEL performance was called SORCERY and the performers were parasites (the Pharisees performed and made the widows pay). For instance:
    Musica mousike, the art of music, comic and dramatic poetry, tantum veneration is

    Similar meaning:

    Exegetice the art of interpretation, exegesis (outlawed by Peter as "private interpretation because it DENIES God the power to speak for OUR culture. Therefore:

    Magice- techne (Rev 18:22) the magic art, magic, sorcery, medicinam (pharikia, That is why Jesus repudiated the "doctors of the Law and why doctors of the law repudiate Jesus the Christ.)

    Magia the science of the Magi, magic, sorcery

PAUL DEFINES STEPS ON THE ENTRANCE ROAD LEADING TO SALVATION

This passage DENIES that one who believes is ALREADY INTO salvation: they are ON THEIR WAY INTO salvation.We WALK in the WAY of Christ and since He submitted to baptism by John from the priestly family He became our ANTITYPE or (real) High Priest and "fully preached baptism." We cannot walk in his WAY without being burried in WATER as the ANTITYPE of His literal death and burial. The FATHER identified Jesus as the SON only after baptism

For with the heart man believeth UNTO righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Rom 10:10
    Eisodos (g1529) ice'-od-os; from 1519 and 3598; an ENTRANCE (lit. or fig.): - COMING, entering) in (to).
WITHOUT faith it is impossible to PLEASE God: God rewards those who DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM. Faith is approved by God because it INCLUDES obedience.

Eis-odos is the Entrance-Road: Those who hear and believe and do RIGHT makes them RIGHTEOUSNESS but being righteous means that they are not evil. Until Zwingli no one confused RIGHTEOUSNESS with SALVATION or the remission of sins. However, Paul then adds CONFESSION. The clergy which rejected God by rejecting baptism did not CONFESS because baptism was a public statement which THE HIGH CLASS COULD not make without diminishing their GOD-LIKE authority.

Peter said that after BELIEF and REPENTANCE one MUST be baptized FOR remission of sins. That is, Baptism was ENTRANCE into remission of sins, the gift of A holy spirit and being added to the church or body of Christ.

Paul said that he preached the SAME gospel. In Romans 10 he is making it clear that BOTH Jew and Gentile must CALL UPON GOD in Baptism for SALVATION or the REMISSION OF SINS before Christ adds you to His spiritual kingdom. A holy spirit permits you to worship in the new PLACE of the human spirit and not in the old or new SANCTUARY.

Mark begins by making BAPTISM the ARCHE or most important meaning of the gospel to people HUMBLE enough to gladly accept BAPTISM for those who COULD NOT be Christs and therefore fulfull the PROTOS or PATTERN which FORM believers must fulfil.
    When John had first preached before his COMING the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. Ac.13:24

    For they themselves shew of us what manner of ENTERING in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 1Th.1:9

    Having therefore, brethren, boldness to ENTER into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, Heb.10:19

    For so an ENTRANCE shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2Pe.1:11

Preaching the word, confessing Lord Jesus, Believe that God raised Him from the dead. But then the cycle begins again: belief, call upon the name, must believe, must hear, preachers must be sent:

For the scripture saith, Whosoever BELIEVETH on him shall NOT be ASHAMED. Rom 10:11

Now, NOT ASHAMED is not the opposite of BEING SAVED (by faith only). Ashamed means:
    Kataischuno (g2617) kat-ahee-skhoo'-no; from 2596 and 153; to shame down, i.e. disgrace or (by impl.) put to the blush: - confound, dishonour, (be a-, make a-) shame (-d)..
Peter used this word in connection with baptism where we REQUEST a clear conscience or consiousness:
    Having a GOOD CONSCIENCE; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 1 Peter 3:16

    For Christ also hath ONCE suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 1 Peter 3:18

    By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1 Peter 3:19

    Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1 Peter 3:20

    And corresponding (as the ANTITYPE of the Ark) to that, BAPTISM now SAVES you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an APPEAL to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 3:21NAS, RSV, LIV


THIS IS CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD

No. You are not equal to God and cannot PLEDGE to be a good boy as the PURPOSE of baptism WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL is not a ONE STEP plan of salvation. Rather, Paul is saying that the GREEKS or GENTILES have the same right to call upon God for salvation. We call when we are baptized into Christ because God does not FORCE us to be saved. He elects or INVITES everyone but few are willing to CALL or REQUEST to be added to His kingdom.
In no system of baptism was it possible to call upon the Master or name yourself after the Master until baptism. Of proselyte baptism:

"At the latter ceremony two disciples of the wise stood by to tell him more of the light and heavy commandments. When he came up after the immersion, those assembled addressed him saying: 'Unto whom has thou given thyself? blessed art thou, thou hast given thyself to God; the world was created for the sake of Israel, and only Israelites are called the children of God... After his baptism he was considered (reckoned to be dead and now alive) to be a new man, 'a little child newly born'; a new name was given him." (Int Std Bible Ency, Proselyte).

"The effect of this baptism was held to be complete regeneration; he was born anew. He was called a little child just born, the child of one day. All his sins were remitted because God cannot punish sins committed before he was born." (Barclay, William, Romans, p. 84)

For there is NO DIFFERENCE between the Jew and the Greek: for the SAME Lord over all is rich unto all THAT CALL UPON HIM. Rom 10:12

For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Rom 10:13


Joel says that God will CALL people out. The elect are the tiny few who ANSWER the "invitation" issued to many or all who hear. They CALL UPON God or "Answer" His invitation by being baptized according to Peter in Acts 2:38

The church or ekklesia are those CALLED OUT of the world: God calls all by the gospel and we "answer" or call back REQUESTING a clear conscience.

People who BELIEVED and REPENTED were baptized in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST. That is, they called upon God in Christ to remit their sins . This was the PROMISE made by Peter: those who refused to be baptized FOR the remission of their sins called Jesus and Peter liars.
    And now why tarriest thou? arise, and BE BAPTIZED, and WASH away thy SINS, CALLING on the NAME of the LORD. Acts 22:16
If CALLING ON THE NAME washed away sins then why did Paul compromise the latter-day faith only by making BEING BAPTIZED and CALLING or being baptized in THE NAME OF THE LORD mean the same thing? Where else does CALLING wash away or remit sins? I can tell you the reason: those who have REPUDIATED the direct command REPUDIATE the epistles and everything else except JUST JESUS.

Peter in Acts 2:38 says that God will give us A holy spirit. In 1 Peter he says that we APPEAL TO or CALL UPON God for A clear conscience. Because A holy spirit or A clear conscience or consiousness is related to the resurrection of Christ we must NAME Him as the authority of full Deity.
    And corresponding to that, BAPTISM now SAVES you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an APPEAL to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 3:21
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher (Kerusso Herald)? Rom 10:14
    Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. John 3:13

    And he ordained TWELVE, that they should be with him, and that he might SEND them forth to preach, Mk.3:14

Anyone who preaches FAITH ONLY or CALLING ONLY is a Pharisee (paid preacher), Scribe (sermon writer and speaker) and a hypocrite (performance preacher or singer) UNLESS they go and HERALD the good news to those who don't knew it better.

In Joel and in the New Testament, God CALLS OUT or ELECTS. That does not mean predestination as FAITH ONLY people claim. Rather, God INVITES the many but certainly only a FEW call back. We ANSWER or call upon Him by REQUESTING what He has graciously offered to us.

Jesus ordained Apostles and the Pastor-Teachers and Evangelists to GO OUT and preach the gospel. They were to MAKE DISCIPLES by TWO acts joined by the Greek kai. They were to BAPTIZE believers and God would give them A holy spirit just for the asking. Every school boy knew that baptism was required to become a disciple even of Paul the Tentmaker. Only after Baptism and calling on the NAME of the Master Teacher could they carry out the only SECOND part. That was to teach that which Jesus taught and inspired through the 12 selected Apostles. THAT'S ALL FOLKS! If you IMPROVIZE or INNOVATE then you repudiate God who gave HIS word as the only resource for our assembly or synagoguing.

Hold this in your mind: Paul shows that there are acts ON THE ROAD or in the road leading to salvation. THIS DOES NOT DIFFER for Jews and Gentiles. However, Paul understands that one is not IN Christ until they are baptized into Him while calling on Him for the free help. If you skim off "calling" and assume that everyone who does so you REPUDIATE the direct words of God in Christ Who made baptism the separating point between believers (obeyers) and the unbelievers (traitors) for BOTH Jews and Gentiles. No, Paul has said in Romans Nine, the JEWS were not predestinated to salvaton which could not be lost.

And how shall they preach (Go and herald), except they be SENT? as it is written, How beautiful are the FEET of them that preach the gospel of peace, and BRING glad tidings of good things Rom 10:15

The punch line that God insists that EVANGELISTS GO and preach the glad tidings. Those who BELIEVE must turn and CONFESS and they must CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD. This means from Joel (explained by Peter) that one calls upon God to REQUEST A holy spirit or A clear conscience ONLY at baptism. There is NO OTHER PLACE for this CALLING. Even if the BELIEVE or say "Lord, Lord" Paul insists that:

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath BELIEVED our report? Rom 10:16

The same people who GAINSAY God in Christ about baptism also insist that FAITH is a gift to the PREDESTINATED person. "Not even reading the Bible can produce faith: that is why you must REPUDIATE the olden bible and listen to the new prophets who have delusions that a separated spirit PERSON lives in their carnal bodies and INSTRUCTS them to spit in the face of Jesus.

So then FAITH cometh by HEARING, and hearing by the WORD of God. Rom 10:17

But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound WENT INTOall the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. Rom 10:18


YOU CANNOT EVANGELIZE BY HAVING A JOINT WORSHIP WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE DEFINED BY ALL OF THE GREEK RESOURCES AS DRIVEN MAD. Tongues of this charismatic outrage is to PLEASE THOSE WHO ARE OVER THEM AS LORDS. When they fall OUT OF LOVE with the Lords they just quit speaking in tongues because they REFUSE to allow them to DRIVE THEM INTO INSANITY or as Paul would say "outside of themselves."

But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. Rom 10:19

But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was MADE MANIFEST unto them that asked not after me. Rom 10:20

But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my HANDS unto a DISOBEDIENT and GAINSAYING people. Rom 10:21


When there was NO HUMAN who could mediate or Intercede, God sent His OWN HAND. He elected or invited all to come in to the feast but only those who obeyed and DID NOT DISPUTE a Holy God becaue the ELECT or the EKklessia or church of Christ.

GAINSAYING is:
    Antilego (g483) an-til'-eg-o; from 473 and 3004; to dispute, refuse: - answer again, contradict, deny, gainsay (-er), speak against.

    Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. Tit.1:9

When people refuse to "teach that which has been taught" both Peter and Paul say that this is a MARK of a false prophet. Jesus used a word which identifies those who reject baptism as CALLING GOD A LIAR. They would be quite willing to lie, cheat and steal the church houses of money just as they try to steal salvation by PLAYING GOD and making a NEW LEGALISM which says that because God might save one person without baptism, WE must refuse to teach what the Spirit of Christ prophesied about baptism, what Zacharias prophesied about Jesus, what Jesus commanded, what the apostles preached and what no one truly denied prior to Zwingli. Zwingli preached FAITH ONLY but no one else believed that to exclude the OBJECT of one's faith: baptism FOR the remission of sins.

There are many other things about Romans 10 to prove that claiming that he taught SALVATION BY CALLING LORD, LORD but enough for now. Because these people USURP the role of Christ and the congregation they have a bold plan to MAKE THE GATE STRAIT by standing at the door telling you that you don't have to GO THROUGH THE WAY.

The word EIS means the point reached. The END OF THE ROAD or the point reached for REMISSION OF SINS or SALVATION is BAPTISM which is CALLING UPON THE NAME OF GOD which is Jesus.

There are STEPS ON THE ROAD to the POINT REACHED. These steps are defined by Paul by the word Eisodos

This word means EIS or the POINT REACHED PLUS HODOS or PROGRESS along the JOURNEY.

Ken Sublett


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 67.32.218.212 on Feb 24, 2004 9:24 AM


 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.69

Instruments are Anti-God

March 6 2004, 9:40 PM 

Something supernatural is happening when all of the MARKS God put in place are being fulfilled. We can say with certainty that the concept of MUSIC of any style is never used of spiritual worship of a Spirit God. God has always TABERNACLED with individuals who were always quarantined from the Tabernacle or Temple animal sacrifices where David's loud instruments made a NOISE but not "music."

And, contemporaneous literature, the Classics, the Bible, all of the church theologians and historians and founders of denominations attacked MUSIC as, for instance, Luther, "The MARK or ensign of BAAL."

At the same time, the Old Testament is filled to the brim with associating "music" with Satan and with those who refused to listen to the Words of God.

While there is not a jot or tittle of God recommending "instruments" with giving Him honor "in the SPIRIT" the "scholarly world" has been convinced that just the opposite is the case. They have pledged, at the same time, to effectively "not eat or drink" until they have infiltrated non-instrumental churches and driven out the faithful few.

We still dare and challenge anyone to put their name on a piece defending ANY king of music (as opposed to teaching) in the worship of God. In this short piece we will show that God DWELLS in the human spirit and we BOTH tabernacle together only in our minds and NEVER at holy places made and used for the pleasure and profit of Satan's agents. Paul will also use the Assyrians at those who "spoke in tongues" to warn Corinth about songs invented out of their OWN spirit. One can just about stab a finger in the Prophets and see MUSIC associated with anti-Godly people just as the total Greek language shows that it IS the meaning of sorcery or soothsaying. Like the little echo chamber of the Witch of Endor all instruments are related to the pagan superstition that the "gods" or "demons" lived in instruments and SPOKE when the strings were plucked (never with a plectrum in both Hebrew and Greek)

The "Assyrians" were "the tallest trees in Eden" and the prototypical speakers in tongues as Paul quotes Isaiah 28 to the Corinthians. The almost-universal rejection of the 'water of God's free word' is carried out by hucksters using music in one form or another to make fools of fools.

Isaiah 7 prophesied of the Virgin Birth and Isaiah 9 prophesied of Messiah. However, when Messiah comes---
    And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits (an instrument of the witch), and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? Isa 9:19

    To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isa 9:20

    And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward. Isa 9: 21

    And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness. Isa 9: 22

That is where we are in the SECOND ADVENT:

Forasmuch as this people refuseth the waters of Shiloah that go softly, and rejoice in Rezin and Remaliahs son; Isa 8:6

Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks: Isa 8:7

And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel. Isa 8:8

God dares you to JOIN the "denominations" to SAVE SOULS:

Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken (chath= 2855= crushed) in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces. Isa 8:9

God always outlawed his people making covenants with the world's religion. A confederacy is always treason.

    Qesher (h7195) keh'-sher; from 7194 (love - league, conspiracy); an (unlawful) alliance: - confederacy, consiracy, treason.

    There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the TREASURES and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof. Eze.22:25

Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us. Isa 8:10

For the Lord spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should NOT walk in the way (course of life) of this people, saying, Isa 8:11

Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. Isa 8:12

Sanctify the Lord of hosts HIMSELF; and let HIM be your fear, and let him be your dread. Isa 8:13


The Lord is Jehovah of Hosts. As Father of the Son He is Jehovah-Righted. As Son, He is Jehovah-Saves.

Fear is the Hebrew:
    Mowra (h4172) mo-raw'; or mora· mo-raw'; or 4786 (Psa. 9: 20), mo-raw'; from 3372; fear; by impl. a fearful thing or deed: - dread, (that ought to be) fear (-ed), terribleness, terror

    Paul understood that worship is PERSONAL and no human can assist us into the presence of God without blaspheming Lord Jesus Christ.

    Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with REVERENCEand godly FEAR: Heb 12:28
    For our God is a CONSUMING FIRE. Heb 12:29


    And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The Lord will be magnified from the border of Israel. Mal 1:5

    A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? Mal.1:6

    Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the Lord is contemptible. Mal. 1:7

    For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts. Mal. 1:11

    But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the Lord is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible. Mal.1:12

Pollute or profane has the same meaning as NAGAN (h5059)
    Chalal (h2490) khaw-lal'; a prim. root [comp. 2470]; prop. to bore, i. e. (by impl.) to wound, to dissolve; fig. to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one's word), to begin (as if by an "opening wedge"); denom. (from 2485) to play (the flute): - begin (* men began), defile, * break, defile, * eat (as common things), * first, * gather the grape thereof, * take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.

    Do Not join a Confederacy :
Say ye NOT, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy ; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. Isa 8:12

Sanctify the LORD as Holy: [This eleminates any human control agent:]

Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let HIM be your fear, and let HIM be your dread. Isa 8:13

God will be THE sancturary while Zion and Gerezim will be "clanging brass" and a snare to Israel and Judah.

And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of STUMBLING and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Isa 8:14


The priests were the snare along with their sound makers. The Gin was
    Pach (h6341) pakh; from 6351; a (metallic) sheet (as pounded thin); also a spring net (as spread out like a lamina): - gin, (thin) plate, snare.

    The stumbling Stone is:

    Negeph (h5063) neh'-ghef; from 5062; a trip (of the foot); fig. an infliction (of disease): - plague, stumbling.

    The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict (browbeating, responsive singing/ mocking) him. Psa 89:22

    Similar words to beating like thinning brass. The stone of stumbling is:


    Negeph (h5063) neh'-ghef; from 5062; a trip (of the foot); fig. an infliction (of disease): - plague, stumbling.

    Nagaph (h5062) naw-gaf'; a prim. root; to push, gore, defeat, stub (the toe), inflict (a disease): - beat, dash, hurt, plague, slay, smite (down), strike, stumble, * surely, put to the worse.

    Nega (h5061) neh'-gah; from 5060; a blow (fig. infliction); also (by impl.) a spot (concr. a leprous person or dress): - plague, sore, stricken, stripe, stroke, wound.

    Naga (h5060) naw-gah'; a prim. root; prop. to touch, i. e. lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphem., to LIE with a WOMAN); by impl. to reach (fig. to arrive, acquire); violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.): - beat, (* be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.

    But of the fruit of the tree which is in the MIDST of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye TOUCH it, lest ye die. Ge.3:3

Paul understood that the NAGA was not a snake. He said that Eve was "wholly seduced" by the serpent as a virgin is violated just before conception by her husband. And we are told that "Cain was OF that evil one." Cain's name derives from a musical note. The serpent is known as a Musical Enchanter.

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Nagan.html

See that all music derives from Satan or the Devil

http://www.piney.com/MuDevils.html
    Nagan (h5059) naw-gan'; a prim. root; prop. to thrum, i. e. beat a tune with the FINGERS; espec. to play on a stringed instrument; hence (gen.) to make music: - player on instruments, sing to the stringed instruments, melody, ministrel, play (-er, -ing..

    Nagan is used interchangeably with Chalal translated "to pollute, play the flute or prostitute.

    And Saul said unto his servants, Provide me now a man that can play well, and bring him to me.1 Sam 16:17

    Saul had presumed to offer sacrifices contrary to the will of God. God literally turned him into a mad man to ridicule him before his army. Being "turned into another man" means that Saul was PERVERTED. God used the future warrior David to drive him into further insanity. God promised the same for Egypt, Assyria and Zion:

    http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html

    Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Beth-lehem, that is cunning in playing, and a mighty valiant man, and a man of WAR, and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the Lord is with him. 1 Sam 16:18

Cunning means "knowing." David was sent with the harp to "prophesy." This means that the evil spirit sent from God was brought to completion when the instruments measured out the stripes. Valient means of the ARMY and is connected to the WHIRLING DANCE of those who bowed to Baal.

The power and might David possessed here was not of the Spirit of God:
    Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by MIGHT, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts. Zech 4:6 NIV

    And it came to pass on the morrow, that the EVIL spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied (made himself a prophet or vile in song and dance) in the midst of the house: and David played (nagan) with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Sauls hand. 1 Sam 18:10

    And Saul cast the javelin; for he said, I will smite David even to the wall with it. And David avoided out of his presence twice. 1 Sam 18:11

David as A MAN OF WAR could not build the latter temple. David was king, soldier and musician. David knew that the silver trumpets had been authorized by God to create a PANIC SONG to turn the enemy into cowards. We will look at forms of PLAYING instruments and see that their primary meaning was prostitution and mocking warriors prior to David's decision to use them to give glory to the temple he was going to build but could not.

One of the key applicatons of the word PLAY or NAGAN is of the king/queen of Tyre as the AGENT of Lucifer. Isaiah wrote:
    And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot. Isa 23:15

    Then follows the "song of the prostitute"

    "Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet MELODY (nagan), sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. (As a "male.") Isa 23:16

The word SING speaks of the minstrel and is connected to the word:
    Shuwr (h7788) shoor; a prim. root; prop. to turn, i. e. travel about (as a harlot or a merchant): - go, sing. See also 7891.

    Shiyr (h7892) sheer; or fem. shyrah shee-raw'; from 7891; a song; abstr. singing: - musical (-ick), * sing (-er, -ing), song

    That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David Am.6:5

    And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord God: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence. Am.8:3

    And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day. Am.8:10

    Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: Amos 8:11

    And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell. Is.57:9

While Jesus was doing His true work He "Cast out, more or less violently, like dung" the minstrels who normally did mourning, funerals, weddings and religious festivals.

With 100% of the worlds literature connecting "music as worship" to Satan and to perverted paganism, why is it that people can become so wise that they are willing to DELIBERATELY SOW DISCORD by "holding office" and not being aware of the Word of God? The "scholars" were fired by Jesus Christ because "they take away the key to knowledge." Then God removes the "candlestick" (of seven spirits of Divine Wisdom) and the lights cannot be turned back on.

Loud a cappella (ala-castratos) music singing self-composed songs with an instrumental style says what Instruments have always said to God: "We will not speak 'that which is written'."

Ken Sublett


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 67.32.223.10 on Mar 7, 2004 1:09 PM


 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.7

Shelly Jesus Proposal

March 17 2004, 1:16 PM 

Rubel Shelly and John York (DLC) believe that mankind has evolved so completely that he cannot understand the olden Bible. They propose the GROUP MENTALITY or the interpretation by the COMMUNE. Individuals have no right to interpret or speak the Bible other than within the COMMUNITY.

However, they grant that the first COMMUNITY "worked out their SCRIPTURE" by partnering with God. Since we have evolved and our culture has changed WE must now "partner" with God and work out a new Narrative or story line with US rather than Moses or Jesus being the heros.

http://www.piney.com/Shelly-York-Narrative.html

Now, in the Jesus Proposal we understand just how far many follows of RUBEL SHELLY have drifted. Why would ANYONE follow people who claim that they can PARTNER with God to reveal a new NARRATIVE to fit our culture?


http://www.piney.com/Jesus.Proposal.Book.html


    Empedocles His consequence in the State became at length so great that he ventured to assume several of the distinctions of royalty, particularly a purple robe, a golden girdle, a Delphic crown, and a train of attendants. The skill which he possessed in medicine and natural philosophy enabled him to perform many wonders, which he passed upon the superstitious and credulous multitude for miracles.

    He pretended to drive away noxious winds from his country and thereby put a stop to epidemic diseases. [Get it? Navigating the Winds of Change?]

    He is said to have checked, by the power of music, the madness of a young man who was threatening his enemy with instant death;

    to have restored a woman to life who had lain breathless thirty days; and to have done many other things, equally astonishing, after the manner of Pythagoras. On account of all this he was an object of universal admiration. Besides medical skill Empedocles possessed poetical talents.

    Rubel Shelly and John York: Just as identity in Christ is always COMMUNITY identity,
    our reading of Scripture becomes a COMMUNITY READING as well.
    While we still have access to reading as individuals,
    we stop asking, "What does this mean to me?"--as though there is such an isolated meaning. Instead we have a GROUP MENTALITY that asks, "What does this mean to US?"

"'The League of Nations', said the Archbishop of Canterbury, at Geneva, 'may go far to make the Kingdom of God a reality in our lifetime'... 'The League of Nations', says Dr. Jowett, has for its aim 'the transformation of the kingdom of this world into the Kingdom of God…'" (1)
    At the heart of this new "group-think" mentality were well-funded occult and illuminist organizations such as the Theosophical Society, Lucis Trust, and the Fabian Society, who ultimately promoted the concepts of Socialism into mainstream thought. In 1925, the Scopes Trial added the element of Darwinism into public consciousness, and the concept of "species survival" augmented the 19th Century notion of "Social Darwinism".

    These philosophies, when blended into the attitudes and values of the masses of humanity, diminish the importance of the individual and elevate the virtues of the group.

    Biblically, this flies in the face of the doctrinal teachings of the New Testament, God's love and concern for the individual, and ultimately individual salvation.

    At the same time, a group-think mentality promotes the false concepts of the "brotherhood of man", ecclesiastical unity, political globalism, and the sacrifice of individuals in order to insure "species survival" -even to the extent of mass genocide to eliminate the "feeble-minded" and other undesirable elements of society that may ultimately prove to be a threat to the species as a whole. 1. "Modernist Millennium", Perilous Times Newsletter, Vol. 2 #16
The THOUGHT process of the NEW AGE RELIGION inherited from hell is that they are in a WAR against the OLD and ROTTEN theology based on the Bible. The Shepherding of PK and adopted by once-churches of Christ speak in terms of WARRIORS and WARFARE. Don't believe that those who would eject the old grey hairs will do you bodily harm if the threat is raised high enough.

They see themselves as warriors handing our rewards and killing off the unfit. Those who would steal the church house of widows will do anything because they are convinced that madness is inspiration.

One priest at Jubilee 2000 was told by the virgin of Guadalupe that Jesus was going to return and KILL all of the pagans and Masons. Those who defend the non-instrumental music cause have been called worse and many peacable churches have been deliberately discorded to take over their property.

Ken


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 67.32.206.24 on Mar 17, 2004 5:02 PM


 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.99

Lading Burdens

March 19 2004, 6:31 PM 

A common E-mail

"I want to thank you so so much for your writings on the tithe and music. It has set me free. I was feeling so guilty because of the burdens that I had on my back. My walk with God was a burden and I didn't know why. I have been led not to give my tithe. I felt it was wrong. I did not want to finance the churches overhead,

"but wanted to give alms to the poor instead.

"Now I can freely do that thanks to your message. It is like God was telling me what you stated at your website but after being in bondage to legalism for so many years I was weighed down by false guilt. But Jesus is opening my eyes to the truth. I had to stop going to church because all the commanded singing and sitting and standing on command made me ill. Its wrong! "




This writer had just read an article which connects both the EXTRA GIVING and MUSIC as a deliberate burden on people.

http://www.piney.com/MuBurden.html

Since most of the unlawful "contributing" is to finance a function which has no Biblical or sensical role to Play, it is important to show that RESTORATION has been DESTORED.

http://www.piney.com/ChMinistry.html

The end-time church rejoices in repudiating the totality of the Bible and huckstering something destructive.

http://www.piney.com/RMPreacPay.html

The LOCATED EVANGELIST is sent out: he does not USE the elders as his board of directors.

http://www.piney.com/Located-Missionary.html


Ken Sublett


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 68.19.193.173 on Mar 20, 2004 1:18 PM


 
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Anonymous
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63.84.81.52

Re: Hohenwald Church of Christ, Hohenwald, TN

May 14 2004, 5:52 PM 

From: Dr. Cecil May Jr., Dean
V. P. Black College of Biblical Studies
Faulkner University

Hugo McCord: At home with the Lord

Hugo McCord passed from this life May 14, 2004.

    Memorial services are scheduled for Thursday, May 27, 3:00 p. m., at the
    East side church in Portland.

    This Christian gentleman was truly one of God's great men of this age.

    His scholarship blessed thousands. His gentle demeanor, even when dealing with a disagreement, was refreshing indeed in a climate frequently charged with hostility. His influence in my life is beyond my ability to express adequately. Heaven is richer, we are poorer, for his passing. But we sorrow not as those who have no hope of sweet reunions.

    Wayne Jackson

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.83

Baptism Data

May 20 2004, 4:18 PM 

Why would people be so obcessed with calling God in Christ, the Apostles and church scholars for 1525 years liars in the face of Christ the Spirit giving us so many examples including the following. While the word EIS or INTO has been used somewhat in the sense of BECASE OF I have found no definition to that effect, nor have we found a Classical document where it could remotely be be used to say that we WASH OFF because we are already clean. Nor, does it mean that we BURRY a body because it is already alive. WHO STANDS TO WIN BY REJECTING BAPTISM? ONLY SATAN!





Baptistht---
Dip in or under water--

Kataduo-----
[duck whole person]


hekastos---
each, every one--

every single one--


EIS------
into the--

within one's power


Aphesin-----
letting go, dismissal--

discharge from a bond--


Hamartin
fault committed--

of guilt and sin--






John 3:

3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a MAN beborn AGAIN, he cannot SEE the kingdom of God. [The kingdom of God is within you]

3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born (AGAIN) of water ANDof the Spirit, he cannot ENTER into the kingdom of God.

3:6 That which is born of the FLESH is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit

Matthew 18:

18:1 AT the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?


18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be CONVERTED, and become AS little children, ye SHALL not ENTER into the kingdom of heaven.

18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

18:5 And whoso shall RECEIVE one such little child in my name RECEIVETH ME.


Acts 2:38:

Then Peter said unto THEM (all), Repent:

AND be baptized every EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ:

FOR the remission of sins:

AND ye SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Ac.2:38 [A holy spirit or A or REGENERATED to be a NEW MAN. In 1 Pet 3:21 the same Peter said that baptism is where we REQUEST A clear conscience or consiousness or a co-perception


Acts 3:19:

Repent ye therefore

AND be converted,


THAT your sins MAY [shall] be blotted out

when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Ac.3:19


Repent: Metanoeo (g3340) met-an-o-eh'-o; from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (mor. feel compunction): - repent.

Baptized: Baptizo (g907) bap-tid'-zo; from a der. of 911; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the N.T.) of ceremonial ablution, espec. (techn.) of the ordinance of Chr. baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.

Remission: Aphesis (g859) af'-es-is; from 863; freedom; (fig.) pardon: - deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission. [Return to the starting post, primordial place]



Gift is: Dorea (g1431) do-reh-ah'; from 1435; a gratuity: - gift. A new, holy spirit


Repent: Metanoeo (g3340) met-an-o-eh'-o; from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (mor. feel compunction): - repent.

Converted: Epistrepho (g1994) ep-ee-stref'-o; from 1909 and 4762; to revert (lit., fig. or mor.): - come (go) again, convert, (re-) turn (about, again)



Blotted out: Ecaleipho(g1813) ex-al-i'-fo; from 1537 and 218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, fig. pardon sin): - blot out, wipe away. Ekkolaptô , erase, obliterate, peck the chick out of the egg, scoop out, oblitter, blot out, erase, blot out of remembrance.

Refreshing : Andronikos (g408) an-dron'-ee-kos; from 435 and 3534; man of victory [Nike] The word REST Jesus promised us is relief from RITUALS and programs. Pauo means: bring to an end, stop! have done! be quiet!, take one's rest, cease, have done of one singing or speaking


 
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JasGuy
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208.62.214.194

Why dignify this man with a response??

May 28 2004, 10:03 AM 

This comment is directed to all of you who keep responding to Kenneth Sublett in an effort to keep this pointless dialogue going (NOT to Mr. Sublett himself).

Hopefully by now you have all figured out that Kenneth Sublett has nothing else better to do than fuel the fire of controversy by attacking individuals and congregations that do not see eye-to-eye with his very "unique" theology. Mr. Sublett has an agenda, an "axe to grind," if you will. You can ask him all the questions you want (where he worships, how he worships, etc.), and he is not going to answer you. It's fascinating to me that several of the responses to Mr. Sublett are in regard to how hard it is to understand what he is saying. Just read 1 and 2 Timothy. Paul warned Timothy about people like Kenneth Sublett, who have nothing better to do than generate strife and engage people in mindless chatter and trivial arguments which do not edify, but rather destroy.

About a year ago, I had the unhappy experience of engaging these people in dialogue over the King James Version of the Bible and found myself having more headaches than it was worth! These "Concerned Members" people are not interested in spreading the Gospel or saving lost souls, or even glorifying God for that matter. They are only interested in their agenda, which I might add, is never really made clear. The more you engage these people in discussion and the more you dignify their pointless drivel with a response, the more you condone their hateful, narrow-minded views. My advice is to just leave them alone to their own devices. Trust me, some day they will realize the harm they have done to the Lord's body, but by then it will be too late.

 
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Lillian Wise
(Login cakemaker)
207.69.52.4

Christian?

July 8 2004, 10:00 PM 

I am not one of "those people" you referred to, but I have read with interest the subjects on this site. You do not have a very Christian attitute, and trust that you do not openly proclaim to be one. The Churches of Christ are in trouble and I am concerned that we are going the "way of the world." We are to keep ourself separated from the world, in the world but not of the world. You are either for Christ or against him. You cannot be both, as some are trying to do. If we don't stand up for the truth then we are no better than those who are teaching error.

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.70

Encouraging Biblical Teaching is Bad??

May 29 2004, 5:38 PM 

Just couldn't SOAK up the facts about baptism, huh? Even a toddler could understand: "Jimmy, go get the soap FOR your bath." The word EIS is uniformally used in the Greek literature to mean IN ORDER. But, a mark of the end time is that mommy says: "Jimmy go get the soap BECAUSE you have already had your bath."

Church? I used to DO church under the name of Circe the holy whore of John's warning. She used music and drugs to sexually seduce you, stripped you of your money and "ministered" to you or FED you with dung patty cakes. Maybe that is why Jesus CAST OUT more or less violently--like dung--the musical minstrels.

Jesus said that the worship God seeks is ONLY in the new place of the HUMAN SPIRIT. That is why He insists that He wash it when we request it at baptism. Jesus DID NOT BUILD a church or holy whore: He built an ekklesia or synagogue which "never had a praise service" because as the "church in the wilderness" it was outlawed and the Israelites ETERNALLY UNDERSTOOD that music in a School of the Bible spits in the eyes of God. Jesus said that if you are BURDENED--from spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals then--"come out and rest" and learn of me. Paul said that if we want to FIND Jesus we don't demand that we have Him captured during "rituals" but we must go OUTSIDE THE GATES or CAMPS. Then, He never promised to SCHOOL more than two or three in a DIALOGING (not preaching) session.

Your CHURCH, as perverted, has NO connection with the Biblical and historical ASSEMBLY or Synagogue or School of the Bible: None. It is Anti-Christian and anti-humanity. I don't know of a Synagogue of Christ.

So, I like Paul and John worship God in the SPIRIT which is in the mind. Worship is GIVING HEED to the word and not to the WORDERS. The Hohenwald church was my last place of DESTRUCTIVE ANXIETY and the wolves still have a lot of my CHICKEN money in their teeths and it will be there on judgment day. I obey Jesus and have money ready for ALMS so that your LEFT hand does not know what my RIGHT hand Gives. I pray in the CLOSET and not in a mass meeting. Threskia or RELIGIOUS WORSHIP was always a charismatic, homosexual service. Therefore, both Paul and Peter make sure that you do not open a GAP into the Most Holy Place where we worship God in the PLACE of the human spirit. To do so, says Paul, you let the wolves TAKE OVER your Most Holy Place and deliberately DESTROY spiritual worship: talk, talk, talk, swing arms, tippy toe, sing silly sop, wave arms, "look at me" I am "leading you into the presence of God." That means that I claim to be Jesus Christ standing in the holy place claiming to be God. But, says Paul:
    Beware of DOGS, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. Phil 3:2
    For we are the circumcision, which worship God IN the SPIRIT, and rejoice IN Christ Jesus, and have NO CONFIDENCE in the FLESH. Phil 3:3

When Jesus said to pray in the CLOSET--which was the food pantry-- he meant in the PLACE of the closet. He did not mean worship with a FOOD FIGHT. Therefore, when He said worship in the SPIRIT He means the human MIND. There can BE NO worship in a charismatic, excitement driven "circe." Paul's "giving" command involved those who had PROSPERED giving to those who were DESTITUTE. Proportional giving is a scam.

Now, since my table about baptism is wrangling, I would like to look at the whole context so you don't define YOUR false words as TRUTH and my Biblical quoted "oracles of God" as WRANGLING.
    It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 2 Tim 2:11
    If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 2 Tim 2:12
    If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 2 Tim 2:13

Which of those words would you not defend?
    Of these things put them in remembrance (words, words),
    > charging (to attest or protest earnestly) them before the Lord
    > that they strive (trifle) not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 2 Tim 2:14

Strive is:
    Logomacheo (g3054) log-om-akh-eh'-o; from a comp. of 3056 and 3164; to be disputatious (on TRIFFLES): - strive about words.
Do you really intend to say that dialoging the WORDS revealed by Christ the Spirit are OF NO PROFIT? If you do you are charging Him with giving us sexually perverting words.
    Machomai (g3164) makh'-om-ahee; mid. of an appar. prim. verb; to war, i.e. (fig.) to quarrel, dispute: - fight, strive.
It is the subverters and perverters who strive about words TO NO PROFIT. I hope that we are not STRIVING in that sense:

The idea of NO PROFIT means sexual intercourse as an occupation:

Words which INTEND to deliberately SOW DISCORD AMONG THE BRETHREN and steal their property are most often TRAFFICKED with a tune. I want you to grasp that the idea of THRESKIA worship is charismatic, musical, perverting and perverting and the tongue speaking 'friends' are involved in gaining the AFFIRMATION of the boss by PLEASURING them with tongues or more:

http://www.piney.com/Charismatic.html

The word "sumphôna" includes the idea of an orchestra which includes the word "chestra."
    3. harmonious union of many voices or sounds, concert, hoi tôn s. logoi, the Pythag. [Orphic, Threskia worship] doctrine of the music of the spheres,

    III. band, "orchestra," used of a musical instrument iof a kind of drum, of a wind instrument, symphoniae et cymbala

Apollo, Abbadon or Apollyon invented musical harmony. It included twanging the bowstring to send a singing arrow into our heart. The word then and in the end time "worship" meant "moving together" --if you know what I mean. The "chorus" was the perverted singing an dancing naked thing the Jewish priesthood wanted to induce. The Jews clearly believed that Dionysus was their "messiah." Jesus didn't bow: they murdered Him. He even CAST OUT LIKE DUG the musical minstrels and that wasn't popular.

Chrêstêrios means
    Chresimos (g5539) khray'-see-mos; from 5540; serviceable: - profit.

    Chresis (g5540) khray'-sis; from 5530; employment, i.e. (spec.) sexual intercourse

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Ro.1:26

    And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Ro.1:27

They tried to "use words" to subvert Jesus with the piping which worked with most to cause Him to make himself naked and sing and dance.
    For the zeal (jealousy) of thine house (temple) hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me. Psalm 69:9
The reproaches which fell on Jesus were:
    Cherphah (h2781) kher-paw'; from 2778; contumely, disgrace, the pudenda: - rebuke, reproach (-fully), shame.
      Charaph (h2778) khaw-raf'; a prim. root; to pull off, i. e. (by impl.) to expose (as by stripping); spec. to betroth (as if a surrender); fig. to carp at, i. e. defame; denom. (from 2779) to spend the winter: - betroth, blaspheme, defy, jeopard, rail, reproach, upbraid.
Subverting is:
    Katastrophe (g2692) kat-as-trof-ay'; from 2690 an overturn ("catastrophe"), i.e. demolition; fig. apostasy: - overthrow, subverting.
    Katastrepho (g2690) kat-as-tref'-o; from 2596 and 4762; to turn upside down, i.e. upset: - overthrow.

Other words with the same meaning: malakos , ê, on, soft:
    b. faint-hearted, cowardly,
    c. morally weak, lacking in self-control, malakos karterein pros hêdonas. indulgences
    d. = pathêtikos,
    e. of music, soft, effeminate, m. harmoniai
    Katastreniao (g2691) kat-as-tray-nee-ah'-o; from 2596 and 4763; to become voluptuous against: - begin to wax wanton against.

Psallo has a meaning similar to voluptuosus full of gratification, enjoyment, pleasure, or delight; agreeable, pleasant, delightful. Another similar word is "hedone." So making music is just PLEASURING one another.

What is a MARK of the purpose driven cult and the Rubel Shelly "visionary quest" for a new Scripture where individuals have no right to interpret or speak outside of the COMMUNITY of COMMUNE? By absolute law, when you peddle (traffick) on the Word of God and deny any part of it, God sends you OUTSIDE the body and sends STRONG DELUSIONS that you believe a lie. That is why disciples and even BIG CONTRIBUTORS "gives you no right to make suggestions."

Paul was speaking of the MANY, the super-apostles: he had to identify his own supply of food and housing as ROBERY to discredit those in Corinth who were riding tandum on the backs of widow and hard working people. They probably invented a LAW (legalism) and called it A LAW OF GIVING. I do run on but it is GOSPEL because it is free of charge.

Ken

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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Re: Hohenwald Church of Christ, Hohenwald, TN

May 30 2004, 6:33 PM 

Lysias, Speeches Olympic Oration

"[2] But he, when he had crushed despotism and arrested outrage, founded a contest of bodily strength, a challenge of wealth, and a display of intelligence in the fairest part of Greece, that we might meet together for all these enjoyments alike of our eyes and of our ears, because he judged that our assembly here would be a beginning of mutual amity amongst the Greeks.

"[3] The project of it, then, was his; and so I have not come here to talk trivialities or to wrangle over words:
    "I take THAT to be the business of utterly futile professors in straits for a livelihood;

    "but I think it behoves a man of principle and civic worth to be giving his counsel on the weightiest questions,

    "when I see Greece in this shameful plight, with many parts of her held subject by the foreigner, and many of her cities ravaged by despots.

[4] "Now if these afflictions were due to weakness, it would be necessary to acquiesce in our fate:
"but since they are due to faction and mutual (?) rivalry, surely we ought to desist (faction) from the one and arrest the other, knowing that,
    "if rivalry befits the prosperous,
    "the most prudent views befit people in a position like ours.



Wrangling was the JOB DESCRIPTION of those who repudiated the WORD of Christ:
    And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. 2 Tim 2:5

    Athleo (g118) ath-leh'-o; from athlos , (a contest in the public lists); to contend in the competitive games: - strive

    The husbandman that LABORETH must be first partaker of the fruits . 2 Tim 2:6

A husbandman is not an OFFICE WORKER:
    Georgos (g1092) gheh-ore-gos'; from 1093 and the base of 2041; a land-worker, i.e. farmer: - husbandman.
A laborer doesn't have time to bear false witness and mocks his elders (seniors):
    Kopiao (g2872) kop-ee-ah'-o; from a der. of 2873; to feel fatigue; by impl. to work hard: - (bestow) labour, toil, be wearied.
Paul worked to TRAVAIL in the "fields white unto harvest." He told Timothy, the evangelist to do the same thing. Timothy was to work while others worked or else could not sponsor the agape to feed the destitute so they, too, could work. Naturally, Timothy received pay for his work in the FIELDS.

If you begin the year with 350 lambs and end with less than 200 still discorded or anxiety-ridden lambs it is clear that you have consumed the lambs or driven them out of the fold. In this case you have a problem....
    Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding (one of the seven gifts of the spirit) in all things. 2 Tim 2:7
Consider eans to exercise the mind, observe, give head, think, to comprehend. Paul's "worship" words mean to GIVE HEED TO THE WORD as one does in a synagogue or school of the Bible.

Paul defined what the faithful WORD for which we must contend against false teachers means:
    Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evildoer, even unto bonds; but the WORD OF GOD is not bound. 2 Tim 2:9

    It is a faithful saying: For if we be DEAD with him (only in baptism), we shall also live (regenerated spirit) with him: 2 tim 2:11

    If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 2 tim 2:12

    If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 2 tim 2:13

Now notice that if you have been baptized for the remission of sins so that God in Christ gives you A new, holy spirit, or as Peter says later, A good conscienc or consiousness, Christ the Spirit takes the blinders off so yu can read the SPIRIT in His Words (John 6:63)
    Of these things put them in remembrance,
    charging them before the Lord
    that they strive not about words TO NO PROFIT, but to the subverting of the hearers. 2 tim 2:14


Hold on to the fact that NO PROFIT speaks directly of the pagan religions where music, charismatic worship and sexual REPROACHES would automatically break out if you deny the Word you once confessed: Orge is God pouring out His wrath. It is seen in the LIFTING OF VOICES.
    Katastrophe (g2692) kat-as-trof-ay'; from 2690 an overturn ("catastrophe"), i.e. demolition; fig. apostasy: - overthrow, subverting.

    And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 2Pe.2:6

    Katatrepho (g2690) kat-as-tray-nee-ah'-o; from 2596 and 4763; to become voluptuous against: - begin to wax wanton against.

    Streniao (g4763) stray-nee-ah'-o; from a presumed der. of 4764; to be luxurious: - live deliciously.

    How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Re.18:7

    And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Re.18:9

    And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Rev 18:22

    Katastreniao (g2691) kat-as-tray-nee-ah'-o; from 2596 and 4763; to become voluptuous against: - begin to wax wanton against.

    But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; 1Ti.5:11

So, a DISCIPLE is a spiritual warrior and not a singy-clappy singer of erotic praise songs: it just makes normal people flee for their lives. It is dangerous to call the Written Word of the Living Word "wrangling." Wrangling PERVERTS a Word-based ekklesia or synagogue or school of the Bible and of Christ into a CHURCH which glorifies Circe, the holy harlot of Revelatiion 18.

The MARK is that people turn hostile when you try to teach people the Word beginning in Genesis. It is not SUBVERTING the young people to teach them that you cannot understand Romans or Hebrew without understanding the prophets of which Paul writes commentary.

Don't forget my paper on CHARISMATIC which I update from time to Time. I have twice as much material and the facts do not change: Charismatic relates directly to WRANGLING over--not Bible Words, but words of NO PROFIT which points directly to the perverted worship of ALL musical, pagan religions.

http://www.piney.com/Charismatic.html

Just YOU wait till I tell you that GRACE-CENTERED had the same perverted meaning. That is why Paul insisted that we SPEAK the revealed words of Christ and leave the GRACE in the mind and not let it BREAK OUT LIKE A CONSUMING FIRE.

I don't need to be provoked: I am trying to supply Biblical teaching to those who are dying of hunger and thirst for the truth. Bet my group is bigger than your group and I don't lie about the law of giving. I HAVE taken the teaching oversight just as Peter authorized.

 
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Anonymous
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Re: Hohenwald Church of Christ, Hohenwald, TN

June 3 2004, 11:03 AM 

Timothy knows too well that OLD WIVES TALES are the babbling of certain women who insist on chanting and singing in the "school of the Bible. They were women who had magical songs "passed down" through her mother's family or tribe. Becase much of Paul's writings point to the ancient, pagan religions we can also find evidence of the magican songs composed by the Hittite "old women." At their death these were passed down to their daughters or became part of the "catalog" or song book of magical encantations (Cantus is much like Psallo or musica or magica). The particular problem was among the women in Paul's writings but males were not excluded.

These mocking chants were also important to men who got verbally violent when they taught the "law" and knew nothing about the law. The Jewish clergy, for instance, using Judas and others would musically mock Jesus according to prophecy.

    The function of young, unmarried women was to go out to the battlefield and encourage the warriors to fight, if not with praise, then with taunts and jeering (Jacobsen Towards 28).

    But refuse profane and old wives fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 1Ti.4:7

    Bebelos (g952) beb'-ay-los; from the base of 939 and belos , (a threshold); accessible (as by crossing the door-way), i.e. (by impl. of Jewish notions) heathenish, wicked: - profane (person)

    Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. Heb.12:16

    Of vain repetitions like "Lord, Lord" or "hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah.....

    "The vb. Battologeo in Mt 6:7 (say not the same thing over and over again) refers to the superstition that the repeated utterance of a word will secure one's wish." (Int. Std. Bible Ency., Magic, p. 1964).

    battologeo, "to babble, ... [battologeo] originally signified to stammer; then, to babble, chatter; so, touse empty words" [BULLINGER. PAGE. 639.],

    The word "repetitions" is the Greek word battologeo, which comes from the verb, legeo, (to speak) and the prefix batta. Batta is a figure of speech that in English we call an "onomatopoeia" which is a word that sounds like what it is,(buzz, zip, zing, rip). Jesus was literally saying, when you pray don't say, "Batta, batta, batta," the gibberish that the pagans offer to their gods.

    http://www.piney.com/MPraiseBabyl.html

    Battologeo (g945) bat-tol-og-eh'-o; from Battos , (a proverbial stammerer) and 3056; to stutter, i.e. (by impl.) to prate tediously: - use vain repetitions


Of the "wanton women"
    And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. 1 Tim 5:13

    Avia a grandmother on the father's or the mother's side.. a prejudice, as it were, inherited from a grandmother: dum veteres avias tibi de pulmone revello, old wives' fables, Pers. 5, 92 , ubi v. Gildersleeve

    See the Revello and Psallo connection below which is much like:

    Fallo
    to deceive, trick, dupe, cheat, disappoint, I deceive myself, I mistake, am mistaken. With respect to one's knowledge or sight, for the more usual late-re: to lie concealed from, to escape the notice, elude the observation of a person
    C. To cause any thing (space, time, etc.) not to be observed or felt, to lighten any thing difficult, or to appease, silence any thing disagreeable, to beguile
    2. False, counterfeit, spurious, = adulterinus (late Lat.): moneta, Cod. Th. 9, 21, 9.--
    1. falsus , i, m., a liar, deceiver, untruly, erroneously, unfaithfully, wrongly, falsely

    Both in and out of the church the underemployed women tended to berate male leadership because by nature they were:

    Phluaros (g5397) floo'-ar-os; from phluo, (to bubble); a garrulous person, i.e. prater: - tattler

    Phluareo
    (g5396) floo-ar-eh'-o; from 5397; to be a babbler or trifler, i.e. (by impl.) to berate idly or mischievously: - prate against.

    Phluaros silly talk, foolery, nonsense,

    II. tattler, babbler, philosophia, glôtta [glossa]

    http://www.piney/WallingInd.html


Busybody is:
    Periergos (g4021) per-ee'-er-gos; from 4012 and 2041; working all around, i.e. officious (meddlesome, neut. plur. magic): - busybody, curious arts.

    Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. Ac.19:19

History knows no exception to the rule that RELIGIONS are fomed by powerless males and their women supporters. Men are interested in the Word while effeminate males and their women "handlers" have historically introduced pagan rituals into what Jesus founded as a School of The Bible. No one had preside over or performance roles in the synagogue. A young student of the Word could READ the Word on the First or Seventh day and the OVERSEER literally looked over his shoulder to make sure that he read "as the oracles of God."

Effeminate or female busybodies, however, were attracted by the pagan rituals of pomp and magic. Flowers and decoratons and "musica which is magica" are especially effective IDOLS to take the attention away fro God and His Word.
    Periergos , on, taking NEEDLESS trouble, grammatikôn

    2. officious, meddlesome, look curiously [They shoot with their eyeballs which are not always blanks]

    3. curious, superstitious, hierourgiai Plu.Alex.2 ; ta p. curious arts, magic, Act.Ap.19.19.

      Hierourgia religious service, worship, SACRIFICE, Hdt. [from hierourgos]

      Worship in the form of RITUALS or acts is derived from the word Threskia which is musical and was then perverted.

    II. Pass., OVERWROUGHT, elaborate, odmê (PERFUNE) Hp.Praec.10; phorêmata esp. of language or STYLE, exorcheisthai

    [meetings all week long of some kind]

      Exorcheisthai exorcheomai 1 Dep. I. to dance away, hop off, Dem. [He leaps around on the podium]

      Phorêmata Phorêma 1 [from phoreô] meant that they added the RITUALS as a BURDEN if they were "turned loose" on the assembly.
      1. that which is carried, a load, freight, Lat. gestamen, Soph., Xen.
      2. that which is worn, an ornament, Plut., etc.
      3. as translation of Lat. ferculum, id=Plut.

      Phoreô [Frequent. of pherô]

      # 2. commonly of CLOTHES and armour, to BEAR CONSTANTLY, wear,

      # 3. to have, POSSESSES, aglaïas phoreein to be SPLENDID

      # II. Pass. to be borne VIOLENTLY along, be HURRIED along, Trag.; to be STORM-TOST, Ar.; to be carried away, Thuc.

      Periphero (g4064) per-ee-fer'-o; from 4012 and 5342; to convey around, i.e. transport hither and thither: - bear (carry) about.

      These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Ju.1:12

      Pherô is like the Tithe or "extra tax" which Jesus outlawed:

      IV # 5. to pay something due or owing, phoron pherein to pay as tax or tribute, Thuc.; misthon ph. Xen. (but also to RECEIVE AY, Ar., Thuc.):--of property, to bring in, yield as rent

      VII.B.I # I. to be borne along by waves or winds, to be swept away,

      That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight [fraud] of men, and cunning craftiness (sOPHIStry as a serpent) whereby they lie in wait to deceive (a wandering star); Ep.4:14

Carried about is:
    Periphero (g4064) per-ee-fer'-o; from 4012 and 5342; to convey around, i.e. transport hither and thither: - bear (carry) about.
On the contrary:
    Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Heb.1:3

    Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. Heb.13:13

    Phero (g5342) to "bear" or carry (in a very wide application lit. and fig., as follows): - be, bear, bring (forth), carry, come, / let her drive, be driven, endure, go on, lay, lead, move, reach, rushing, uphold

    Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Mt.11:28

    Phortizo (g5412) for-tid'-zo; from 5414; to load up (prop. as aa vessel or animal), i.e. (fig.) to overburden with ceremony (or spiritual anxiety): - lade, be heavy laden.

      Similar: Komizô

      II. 2. carry off as a prize or booty,
      3. receive a MISSLE in one's body

      Ferculum that on which any thing is carried or

      I. A frame, a barrow, litter, bier for carrying the spoils, the images of the gods, etc., in public processions
Such as spoken About by Amos: A Similar word
    Bastagma atos, to, that which is borne, burden, .

    Exorcheisthai exorcheomai 1 Dep. I. to dance away, hop off, Dem.

    II. c. acc. rei, to dance out, i. e. to let out, betray secrets

    Latin:

    Revello, velli, vulsum or volsum, 3, v. a., to pluck or pull away, to pull or tear out, to tear off or away (freq. and class.).

    I. Lit. be torn away, remove

    II. Trop., to tear away, send away injurias honorificis verbis

    Vello often used with "revello."

    d. To be plucked or pulled, i. e. to have the hair pulled out by the roots 2. Trop., effeminate: mens [mind], Suffering convulsions, spasmodic, shorn, plucked, smooth, beardless, hairless, to deprive of the hair,

    And into those evil uses of TWANGING or PLUCKING we return to:

    Psallô , pluck, pull, twitch, ps. etheiran pluck the hair, esp. of the bow-string, toxôn cheri psallousi neuras twang them, E.Ba.784; kenon kroton Lyc.1453 ; ek keraos ps. belos send a shaft twanging from the bow

    For the Bacchae E.Ba.784.

    http://www.piney.com/DocEuripBacc.html#Already

    Signum [MARK]: A sign, signal; a watchword, password, given by a wind-instrument.

    Blituri to, twang of a harp-string: hence of a meaningless sound, Perseus

    Klang-ê ( [klazô] ):--any sharp sound, e.g. twang of the bow, scream of birds

      to which are compared confused cries of a throng,

      grunting of swine

      howling of wolves and lions

      hissing of serpents

      baying of dogs, Cyn.4.5, etc.; [Cynics were male prostitutes. Their "praise songs" sent SIGNS with the sounds of animals.]

      also, of musical instruments, of song, of Cassandra's prophecies

      of the scream of the Harpies, A.R.2.269. Perseus
There are several forms of the word PSALLO from which the word "melody" is derived. But this is NOT a musical word. It is derived from Apollo's Bow: He twitched the bowstring to send a "singing" arrow into your heart. He was also a specialist of other kinds of "arrows" as the mark of His ancient and end-time "worship" with the muses or Locusts of Revelation 18 and the church next door.
    Psallo (psao)

    I. to touch sharply, to pluck, pull, twitch, Aesch.; toxou neuran ps. to twang the bow-string, Eur.; BELOS ek keraos [horn] ps. to send a shaft twanging from the bow

    so, schoinos miltophurês psallomenê a carpenter's red line, which is twitched and then suddenly let go, so as to leave a MARK (ouch!), id=Anth.

This is more than "making music" with the carpenter's line. It includes the words:
    Miltophurês [phurô] daubed with red, Anth.

    Phurô often used with blood

    I. to mix something dry with something wet, mostly with a sense of mixing so as to soil or defile, dakrusin heimat' ephuron they wetted, sullied their garments with tears, Il.; also c. gen., cheilea phursô haimatos [bloodshed, murder]

    2. of dry things, konei phurousa kara Eur.; gaiai pephursesthai koman to be doomed to have one's hair defiled with earth

    II. metaph. to mingle together, confuse, they mixed all things up together, did all at random, from a confused and savage state, Eur.

      Confundo

      I. To pour, mingle, or mix together (class. in prose and poetry). Of bringing together in speech:

      2. Esp., with the idea of confounding, disarranging, to confound, confuse, jumble together, bring into disorder, brought into disorder, confused, perplexed, disorderly

      Thêriôdês [eidos]

      I. full of wild beasts, infested by them, Lat. belluosus, of countries, Hdt.
      beluosus (bell- ), a, um, adj. [id.] , abounding in beasts or monsters:

      II. of men, beast-like, wild, savage, brutal... the animal nature

    II. 2. in Pass. also to mix with others, have dealings with him, Plat.

    Psallo which speaks of a warrior's bow does not allow a guitar to be played with a plectrum because the message to be conveyed is that of PANIC to subdue others rather than to sooth them with "music."

    II. to play a stringed instrument with the fingers, NOT with the plectron, This restricts psallo or melody to things like making the bow "sing" or "shooting forth" hymns which attacked the nerves of the enemy like all warrior's "music."

    2. later, to sing to a harp, SING NTest.

There are no examples as far as I am aware which dp not associate a harpISTS with pagan, perverted rituals intended to subdue the "customers" for the next-to-the last ACT of worship: according to the Vineyard that one is "giving of means." That is why Paul insisted that there be no external "playing." And that is why the OIDA or IST endings implicate PARASITES who once worked in the sacrificial altars which couldn't fool even the fools very long.

The word PSALLO which is like the SOP Jesus fed Judas has "musical" connections in only two ways:

First, the bow and a singer "shot forth hymns."

Second, the harp, like the bow, is twitched and suddenly let go to leave a mark. External singing has always created "spiritual anxiety" from the time of Jubal.

Psallo would OUTLAW playing a guitar with a pick or blowing a flute (meaning to pollute) or playing a keyboard. It speaks of emotional destruction and that is why Paul defined an EXTERNAL act to teach the inspired text. Both the singing and playing in an external sense create spiritual anxiety: that tries to destroy the REST Jesus came to give indivisuals believers who have A holy spirit. He invites those burden laden by pagan types of "worship" to "come learn of me." I don't believe you can be faithful to the ekklesia or synagogue or school of the Bible taught by Christ Himself in the new PLACE of the human spirit as we GIVE HEED to the word or the Spirit of Truth.

Take it slowly: let it sink in. The same message inheres in all of Paul's warnings to Timothy: it was the effeminate, wandering males or free women who are the babblers and wranglers.
    And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.2 Tim 2:5

    The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops. 2 Tim 2:6

    Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 2Ti.2:7

You cannot exercise the mind with other people's mouths open and arms flinging. That is why when God is in His holy temple (me) let the world keep silence: God is never where you claim Him to be "in houses built by human hands."

Sorry about the sample comments inherent in Paul's warning; the "students in exile" will grasp it or ask. I keep e-mails confident because I grasp the fear factor.

ksublett@piney.com

 
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Anonymous
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Re: Hohenwald Church of Christ, Hohenwald, TN

June 4 2004, 10:18 PM 

Eat, drink and make merry because the baby boomers have discovered that they could PROCURE a Phd from manufacturing plants run by other Phds who procured their Phd "without a certificate of need" then made a career of infesting peacable churches with agents performing as "Prophets [profits], Chanellers and Facilitators to DIVERT people from truth.

Using Paul's imagery, "fools love to be fooled." Jerusalem had been fooled: the "Jews" whose title Jesus used with contempt were "children of Abraham" but Jesus denied that they were Israelites. They were Kenites or Cainites or Canaanites. As a result, Jesus spoke to them in parables so that they could hear the SIMPLE TRUTH but could not understand it. Peter said that Paul spoke that way. People loose their power to comprehend simple truth. "Mary had a little lamb" had nothing to do with her character. It is apparent that the Cainites (from a musical note) and Cain's (of that Evil one) clan still take over "synagogues of Christ" intending to turn them into "theaters for holy entertainment." When you do that people flee and God in Christ makes it impossible for you to ever again grasp the truth. Whether bad character or genetics Hebrews 6 proves my point. God proved it at the Flood, the Red Sea, the "flood motif" in Jer. 4, in baptism (those who question it) and in what people build as institutions to replace and silence the human spirit.

Jesus repudiated the mass gatherings, musical performers and speaking performers by several simple statements. Too bad that people cannot hear it even in the simple statements of Jesus. Why can't you hear "where two or three are gathered in MY name I will be in their midst. Because they are baptized believers they are DISCIPLES so they can 'come learn of me'." That frees them from the legalistic bondage of having to be at a certain "house" made with human hands or "facilitated" or mediated by the musical performers [inconsistent with REST]. Jesus says "I have paid the temple tax forever because I AM the Great Fisherman." Here it is: ask why do the MAJORITY have not the slightest ability to hear the Spirit in the words?
    Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you REST. Matthew 11:28

    Phortizo (g5412) for-tid'-zo; from 5414; to load up (prop. as a vessel or animal), i.e. (fig.) to overburden with CEREMONY or spiritual ANXIETY: - lade, be heavy laden.

    And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers [dispensers of the law in bits] for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers. Lu.11:46

Rest does not mean that God got sweaty, lost His energy and sat under a shade tree. Rest which was made a law by God, meant that you CEASE your weekly activity (singing, clappig, speaking, performing on the stage or plowing) because at times the FIRST DAY and SEVENTH DAYS were grasped out of the hands of the TRAFFICK clans. They were not to "worship"--which meant hard bondage-- but to hold a HOLY CONVOCATION. That meant to REHEARSE or READ the Word. The Israelites could GRASP that simple fact and NEVER "sang or played music or mounted the stage and preached" when the synagoguge (church in the wilderness) met ONLY for instructions.

Because the professional TRAFFICKERS took away God's REST under the Law, He sent His ARM (not a second God). Jesus CREATED His ekklesia or synagogue or school of the Bible in order to give His people REST from the Pharisees, Hypocrites and Scribes. If you can think of an ACT which claims to influence God or work magic on the "tithers and offerers" then it is professional paganism. The RULER is Apollo (of seeker center fame), Abaddon or Apollyon. He has dug up the locusts or muses or musical performers.

The word REST had a major MEANING. Why is it that in the Greek resources there are so many PROOF TEXT which deal with STOPPING the singers or musicians or Polemos speakers? And when you point them out you are a sower of discord?

Jesus sent the message that we should "rest from performing musicians and speakers" because they were known as sorcerers and parasites. Why would He approve what He knew was the most powerful WEAPON of creating spiritual anxiety: take credit for the 26% of Americans suffering from depression "created by religious ritual." Rest is the Greek:
    Anapauo an-up-ow'-o; from 303 and 3973; (reflex.) to repose (lit. or fig. [be exempt], remain); by impl. to refresh: - take ease, refresh, (give, take) rest

    Ana means "each and every one." Apart from even in a group.

Rest is: Pauo and means to stop a person from doing: "rhapsôidous epause agônizesthai

It means that to be a DISCIPLE OF CHRIST you must STOP or SILENCE the "musical performers." The word PAUO also means to silence the PUBLIC SPEAKERS. The word POLEMOS speaks of Armageddon and the 'War of words" rather than the "war of the worlds." The first term is

Rhapsôidos epause agônizesthai
    This includes "properly one who stitches or STRINGS songs together ..but rhapsôidoi commonly meant a CLASS of persons who got their living by reciting the poems of Homer
David's "musical team clans" were known as "aboriginals." Among the Greeks, the musical, preaching and charismatic performers were identified with a word meaning SELF GENERATED and OUT OF THE EARTH. Scripture says that they are spirits from ancient times. I don't know.

Remember that Jesus STOPPED the performing "minstrels" and cast them out as one ejects dung. He refused to do His HEALING WORK when people reject His Word and "stitch together a series of songs" to work worship magic. This may explain the end-to-end singing of erotic praise songs to destroy the DISCIPLING atmosphere.

This word is connected to the word hupokritês. The next word is the PAUO which Jesus demanded in order for Him to teach and give REST.

Rhapsôidous epause agônizesthai

It means to make to cease: "Stop one from singing or speaking. Leave off external singing or playing, choral songs; which create fear which speaks of Phoebus or Apollo and his "muses." (See Revelation 18 and hope to understand that Jesus the Spirit through John condemns them back into the netherworld or UNDERGROUND from which they came). Many of these terms apply to the Lesbian or Lesbos singers. Homer was honored by people RECITING (Paul said SPEAK) his hymns or poems. The Labor-intensive Lesbians set Homer to melody and instruments" or banners! They were the FIRST to add instruments into paganism. Therefore, they wereTRAMPLING on Homer just as performers TRAMPLE on Jesus:
    Homêro-patês: one who tramples on Homer, masculine: perverter of Homer. A similar definition is: " hudr-aulês, one who plays the hudraulis." This includes: one who bears the sacred boughs. The hudraulis was an early pipe organ. The pipe organ added by the Lesbian singers would SILENCE Homer because people would be attracted to the "performances" which includes more than we can bear just now.
Most of the singers with instruments were women or strange men. Therefore, to rhapsoidos is like the word:
    Kuon or dog: as a word of reproach, to denote shamelessness or audacity in women, rashness, recklessness in men,
Remember that Paul said that the converted Jews worshipped in the NEW PLACE of the Spirit. Why? Why because outside would be the dogs and sorcerers (performers of any kind affecting a Pharisee spiritual superiority)

The Word Tragedys applies the term to the ministers of the gods; the eagle is Dios ptênos (feathers in the PSALLO arrow) kuôn Aesch.; the griffins Zênos akrageis kunes id=Aesch.; the Bacchantes Lussês k. Eur., etc.

Kuon incluses: "IV. a SEA-DOG, mentioned as a FISH. This was a semion or MARK."

Rhapsôidos epause agônizesthai

Agônizesthai means to contend for the prize on the stage, both of the poet, Hdt., etc., and of the actor, public speaking, struggle, to exert oneself.

Now, that is a bunch, but to those whose eyes God has not closed, the MEAT of the Gospel for the Christians or baptized disciple, is that God lives in our mind or spirit to the extent we GIVE HEED to His Words (Paul's only worship word). If that cannot be understood the TOTALITY of the Greek background should be skipped--I have libraries full and NOT ONE EXCEPTION to what I have reported to you about MUSIC as the end-time identifier of the different MARKS people have.

Let me know if you have any input: this is a safe house.

ksublett@piney.com

Ken

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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A gotcha e-mail

June 14 2004, 9:06 PM 

Email Feedback question:

"What is your take on this passage. Was this ministry with music unauthorized. Did David just do things without God's approval in this area of music?

31 These are the men David put in charge of the music in the house of the LORD after the ark came to rest there. 32 They ministered with music before the tabernacle, the Tent of Meeting, until Solomon built the temple of the LORD in Jerusalem. They performed their duties according to the regulations laid down for them."


First, note that specific families of the tribe of Levi were named: if you were not a Levite and tried to perform any of these services you would get into trouble. As a singer or musician who SERVED the priests and not God, you would never be allowed past the "parking lot." If you ventured into the symbol of "church" even to clean out the garbage you would be run through with a sword (instrument)

Second, when David performed his PLAGUE STOPPING animal sacrifice at the Jebusite High Place (Zion or Jerusalem) he DID NOT included instrumentalists.
    And these are they whom David set over the service of song in the house of the Lord, after that the ark had rest. 1 Chr 6:31
This was not a TEMPLE but an alternate altar which God permitted David because he was so panic stricken that he could never return to gibeon to enquire of God.

The Levitical "musicians" made a great, unison, crashing sound as Warrior creators of panic. We are told that the priests tuned all of the horns to the same note and no one was allowed to put holes in them to make playing a tune possible. They clanged on cymbals or shields or swords: that is why a musical INSTRUMENT and a WEAPON use the same Hebrew (and Greek) word. For instance a LIFELESS musical instrument also speaks of WEAPONS. Our weapons are SPIRITUAL of the WORD and not CARNAL WEAPONS. In the Greek resources the word is HOPLON where loud panic "music" was a way to overcome the ENEMY by creating cowardice--just like in "church" which has no remote relationship to the ekklesia or synagogue or Scholl of the Bible taught by God in Christ.

This was a MAKES WORK PROJECT for the surplus warrior Levites. Just before the time of Christ these "GIs" were put to work building buildings and walls and not playing "music." The ARK HAD REST means that the wars were over.
    And they ministered BEFORE the dwelling place of the tabernacle of the congregation with singing, until Solomon had built the house of the Lord in Jerusalem: and then they waited on their office according to their order. 1 Chron 6:32
This was not GOD'S tabernacle but David's New Tent.

REGULATIONS of the NIV are "the order" in the KJV. Because of the huge number of warrior Levites they were organized in a certain order of FAMILIES much like job sharing. The Levites got their authority because they would kill their brethren during the MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai where their charismatic worship service made them into a LAUGHING STOCK while the perfermers worshipped themselves.
    And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies:) Exod 32:25

      Shimcah (h8103) shim-tsaw'; fem. of 8102; scornful whispering (of hostile spectators): - shame.

    Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the Lords side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. Ex.32:26

The MUSICAL LEVITES under Asaph would continue to be the slave drivers and controllers. They received their authority as WARRIORS and not worship leaders. The Temple was looted within five years of Solomon's death, civil war broke out and the king promised that the LEVITES would plague them even worse than Solomon.

Gathered is the source of the musical guild under Asaph:
    Acaph (h622) aw-saf'; a prim. root; to gather for any purpose; hence to receive, take away, i. e. remove (destroy, leave behind, put up, restore, etc.): - assemble, bring, consume, destroy, fetch, gather (in, together, up again), put all together, receive, recover [another from leprosy], (be) rereward, * surely, take (away, into, up), * utterly, withdraw.
The word for pollute includes play the flute and prostitute and to consume other people's inheritance:
    Chalal (h2490)khaw-lal'; ... to wound, to dissolve; fig. to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one's word), to begin (as if by an "opening wedge"); denom. (from 2485) to play (the flute) : - begin.... eat (as common things), * first, gather the grape thereof, take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.
Asap was NOT a spiritual "worship leader! During the building of the temple the EXCELLERS were slave drivers!
    Acaph (h623) aw-sawf'; from 622; collector; Asaph, the name of three Isr., and of the family of the first: - Asaph.
Amazingly the GUILDS of musicians were named after Canaanite guilds. The word "aboriginal" meant that it was believed that they were SELF-GENERATED from under the earth. They were symbolized by SCORPIONS. The Lesbian singers are claimed to be the first who took poetry intended to be RECITED and added tunefulness and instrumental music.

The word "ministered" means a MENIAL or WORSHIP. You are not gonna find true worshipers flinging their hands if they think they are in the presence of God: they SERVE or do bondage with fear and trembling. However, the word normalll indicates servants or slaves. Of the Queen of Sheba:
    And the meat of his table, and the sitting of his servants, and the attendance of his ministers, and their apparel, and his cupbearers, and his ascent by which he went up unto the house of the Lord; there was no more spirit in her. 1K.10:5
This was at the Jebusite High Place after David was too fearful to return to Gibeon which was the lawful place of the Tabernacle.

The word SERVICE does not mean WORSHIP but from HAND means
    Yad (h3027) yawd; a prim. word; a hand (the open one [indicating power, means, direction, etc.], in distinction from 3709, the closed one); used (as noun. adv., etc.) in a great variety of applications, both lit. and fig., both proximate and remote [as follow]: - (/ be) able, * about, / armholes, at, axletree, charge, custody, debt, dominion, throwing, thumb, work,
The SERVICE of the singers and later musicians is defined by a word meaning HARD BONDAGE much like the word Abadown.

The SONG is:
    Shiyr (h7892) sheer; or fem. shyrah shee-raw'; from 7891; a song; abstr. singing: - musical (-ick), * sing (-er, -ing), song
This word is used of Laban who had cheated Jacob with a DRUNKEN celebration with wine and music so he was so drunk that he didn't know which girl he was sleeping with.
    Wherefore didst thou flee away secretly, and steal away from me; and didst not tell me, that I might have sent thee away with mirth, and with songs, with tabret, and with harp? Ge.31:27
You will notice the universal meaning in the old testament: even though a word is sometimes TRANSLATED as music, is that an instrument is never included unless it is named. The same is true of our word SONG.

When Moses sang a song you will notice the fact that singing never involved our kind of charismatic singing;
    THEN sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the Lord, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the Lord, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. Ex.15:1
Remember that Paul said in a HIDDEN PARABLE that we are to SPEAK the inspired text.

When david spake or recited HE WAS singing in both the Hebrew and Greek world. If you READ a Psalm in the Synagogue it was calleld singing or cantillation. The object was not to stir up the senses but to teach:
    Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel. De.31:19
They, much better than we understood that SPEAK to one another means SPEAK as in the word SPEAK. The idea was to put it into their mouth just the way we memorized the Gettysburg Address. Next day teacher wanted you, as ANOTHER, to speak the message back to her to make sure you knew it. She had no interest in you cutting it up and insulting Abraham and entertaining her.

Again, when David got himself naked and vile the SING must always define an intrument if instrument (possible by the definition of the word because it was metrical) was included it was ALWAYS NAMED. David PLAYED just as the Israaelites PLAYED in musical idolatry and "making self vile." To humble self and making oneself vile including sodomy was to PROOF to God that the worshiper was so inferior that they could not be punished.
    And David and all Israel played before God [Had God in a box] with all their might, and with singing, and with harps, and with psalteries, and with timbrels, and with cymbals, and with trumpets. 1Chr.13:8
If I ask a musician to SING a song, it is metrical and can be accompanied by an instrument.

A psaltery is from an "empty wineskin" used as an echo chamber or the familiar spirit of the Witch of Endor. It is derived from a word which means:
    Nabal (h5034) naw-bale'; a prim. root; to wilt; gen. to fall away, fail, faint; fig. to be foolish or (mor.) wicked; causat. to despise, disgrace: - disgrace, dishonour, lightly esteem, fade (away, - ing), fall (down, -ling, off), do foolishly, come to nought, * surely, make vile, wither..
David TOLD Michal that he made himself vile (Halal or Chalal) and would be held in honor by the slave girls.

When singing and instruments are named it is not a worship word even as it was not before David's Tent:
    And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot. Is.23:15
Then
      Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. Is.23:16
The word SING which includes instruments is from the Hebrew
    Shiyr (h7891) sheer; or (the orig. form) 7788 (1 Sam. 18:6), shoor; a prim. root [rather ident. with 7788 through the idea of strolling minstrelsy]; to sing: - behold [by mistake for 7788], sing (-er, - ing man, -ing woman).

    Shuwr (h7788) shoor; a prim. root; prop. to turn, i. e. travel about (as a harlot or a merchant): - go, sing. See also 7891. [Remember that Lucifer or Zoe was both a singing and harp playing prostitute and a trafficker]

    The ships of Tarshish did sing of thee in thy market: and thou wast replenished, and made very glorious in the midst of the seas. Eze.27:25

    Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. Am.5:23

    That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David; Am.6:5

    Shuwr (h7790) shoor; from 7889; a foe (as lying in wait): - enemy.

Who can doubt that God made sure that we knew that "making music" in His presence is the work of spiritual adulterers. By claiming authority from the Levites they are cursed with the persona of warriors and spiritual killers.

Sorry, the Bible always associates "music" as it did in the temple as a way to gloat over slaughtering tens of thousands of types of God in Jesus Christ. The history of the MOST VILE pagan temples sends us the message that neither singers, musicians or rheotoricians EVER entered into the Holy Place which symbolizes the church of Christ. When the priest looks into the Most Holy Place at the incense altar there was a HALF HOUR OF SILENCE: the Lord is in His Holy temple (me) and you WILL be silent or I will be gone.

Modern charismatic singing is much more destructive and emotionally polluting than a pipe organ!

Ken

 
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Kurt Bowers
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4.158.120.157

Thought for Ken

July 11 2004, 2:16 PM 

Dear Ken, I wrote to you one time before explaining that
on most issues, I agree with you. The same is still
true. I enjoy reading what you have to say with one exception: your posts are so long! You obviously have
studied God's word quite a bit and there are many of us
on here who benifit from your posts, but each one is an
epistle! I know if I see your name listed as the latest
reply, plan to spend about two hours reading it! (Of
course I exaggerate - just being humorous!) Seriously,
I think you have a lot of good things to say, and I know
sometimes that takes a lot of time (or space). However,
getting to the point with out all the exegesis and
lengthy notations would make your posts more readable
(and to some younger christians, understandable). I look
forward, as always, to reading your posts in the future,
hopefully in "reader's digest" form! In Christian love,
Kurt Bowers.

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.82

Thoughts for Ken

July 12 2004, 10:35 AM 

Thanks for both the plussess and minuses: I totally agree with you but perhaps I should explain what should be obvious.

First, I began collecting data long ago trying to reconcile a paradox which is consistent with the statement of Jesus that "truth had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the world." That means (from othe passages) long before Genesis 1:1. Why is it that the Bible from Genesis to Revelation connects MUSIC to children's games, prostitutes, sodomites and those who made a GREAT CRASHING noise to serve the PRIESTS as they slaughtered tens of thousands of types of Lord Jesus Christ--and FALSE TEACHERS such as Max Lucado and the Rubel Shelly PREACH FOR A PRICE-ALWAYS FOR A PRICE that the Holy Spirit is God's "song writer and dance master"? Oh for another of katy's blue berry muffins to keep from gagging at the thought that while the bible calls such nonsense BUFFONERY as a MARK of His wrath, those whose relationship to these teachers is "closer than the blood of Christ" and certainly closer than being HONEST with money and MINISTERING TO or serving old widows rather than both FLEECING them and CRAUNCHING THEIR BONES. The majority MUST be wrong and the REMNANT is always tiny and "outside the city" or little kingdom.

Unlike ALL modern writing (mine excepted -:0) which can be exhausted at one reading, the Bible is inspired. But that is not provable until at baptism and only at baptism we request A holy spirit or A good conscience or consiousness or a "co-perception" of the Word. The Bible was written in ITS culture and is highly spiritual (rational or technical). That means that a word or concept is a POINTER to a huge store house of information preserved in the classics or other literature which defines the concept as a Paul would have understood it so that THOSE readers could connect baptism to salvation because "baptisma' meant "regeneration." Paul CANNOT be understood well enough to CHARGE FOR IT without being literate in the Classics.

Now Jesus being God would not try to fool us, but those not OF THE TRUTH or OF FAITH might read SPEAK or PREACH to one another and build a huge industry of RELIGIOSITY or CHRISTIANISM out of translating TEACH, ADMONISH AND SPEAK as "SING to one another using Twila Paris and making MELODY with your voice, your hands or an instrument."

In the Greek resources the word "for" or "EIS is NEVER" used in the sense of BECAUSE OF. However, those not OF TRUTH can read it "believers, repent and be baptized BECAUSE your sins were remitted because God picked you from eternity past to be saved."

Now, I write and explain about 200 topics TO MYSELF. I am slow and I often repeat myself at going on 74 and having had my church TAKEN CAPTIVE and my resources DIVERTED I have EARNED it. These are my FILES and "those who seek to know the truth" will find strings, tape and bits of paper "filed" in these topics. But here is what you do.

For instance, I take a published sermon, say the weekly (weakly) sermons of Rubel Shelly who has LOST the power to see and hear Christ the Holy Spirit because he and Max Lucado think (uniquely to history) That God is A Family of three God's: See where the family, community or commune comes from? The "scholars" at Hohnwald still woorshuup-uh the NAMES of Father, Jesus and Spirit and can get nasty when you suggest that the GA material is WRONG in inventing (first) the idea that the Godhead is THREE, INDEPENDANT members of a STANDING COMMITTEE.

Rubel Shelly thinks we can COLOR the S.O.N. God as the S.U.N. god so I color his comments in RED. "True" scholarly quotes and other references are in BLUE. My comments are in BLACK. So, you can read all or parts of Rubel's sermon (for which people PAY proving Paul's statement that "fools love to be fooled.") just by reading the Red. Read the ALWAYS repudiating statements in Blue. If I write too much (for me, remember) you can skip ALL of the black. Now, don't you wish you could do that with almost ALL sermonizing which Peter OUTLAWED?

I link and cross link the Bible, the Babylonian Tablets, the contemporaneous to the bible literature, the Classics, the church Fathers, Restoration documents and my OWN blather. When I LOSE a precious jewel of knowledge I can usually SEARCH my site and find it. Since I often do a THESIS daily don't expect things to clear up anytime soon. Preachers 'splain it to you: if you are a DISCIPLE or Christian (only baptized disciples are called Christians) YOU will have to work out the meaning for yourself. After all, it is a lie that Paul PREACHED from 9:30 until midnight. The word is DIALOG or discuss or COMMUNE. David sang psalms to HIMSELF and meditated in his HEART. Only when you MUSE do you learn and that is why PREACHING as "prophets, channellers and facilitators" (Re ACU) have destroyed the church by being ENABLERS to elders "more APT to chase a coon than APT to know anything about the Bible or even TOLERATE the Bible "as it has been written." God will never forget and never forgive because of such AFFLICTIONS imposed on people based on a TOTALY PERVERTED view of church and the Word and the "biblical" Jesus.

Aren't you sorry you asked?

Ken

 
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Kurt Bowers
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4.131.19.16

Not at all!

July 12 2004, 10:28 PM 

I am glad I asked! Thanks for the explanation. I am
nearly color blind, but my wife can help me with the
different print colors. One thing I am wondering about
from your comments is: Do you believe in the Trinity?
It sounds as though you don't. Your understanding of it
would be great to hear. Thanks again, Kurt Bowers.

 
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Kenneth sublett
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63.84.81.1

Trinity

July 13 2004, 11:16 PM 

The "office" at Hohenwald will rejoice that two more glands are acting up. I will spend from 7 to about noon tomorrow at outpatient in Columbia to decide what if anything to do about them.

As soon as I return I will do a "short" essay on the trinity.

For now I can tell you that I have found no exception among those who believe that God was in Christ reconciling the world except H. Leo Boles who was editor of the Gospel Advocate and, I believe, president of Lipscomb to the TOTAL concensus that the Godhead is NOT a standing committee of three persons where persons is identified as "people." That is, the Godhead has skills or even evil propensities to do, as Rubel Shelly "jokes?" have the Father god and the Spirit God play a dirty rotten trick on the little Son god (sons are always a bit stupid) so that HE would have to die for the sins of the World.

John Mark Hicks, another troubler in Zion, admits that it was Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly who latched onto the THREE GODS view of Lipscomb and the G.A. to resurface or popularize a neo-trinity among churches of Christ. T. Campbell repudiated John Calvin because he used the word PERSON but Calvin rejected the idea of the Trinity of persons. T. Campbell could find no better word and therefore used it by warning that tis can have no meaning in the real world.

I was astounded when returning to Hohenwald that they had this DISPENSATIONAL-FIT Godhead down so pat that they worshipped the NAMES of the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I knew that something had hit the fan when I suggested that there were not three "persons" which they had figured out as different PEOPLE doing the dispensation they were BEST QUALIFIED to do. No "trinitarian" ever suggested that God is three persons: the word is "personae" which is a bit different. The idea that God was cut up like a pecan pie was always considered grotesque and, according to Paul Tillich, a heresy.

I would say that the almost universal smothering by RELIGIONISTS and ACTORS is based on the fact that they reject the ONE God. This allows them to reject the olden Bible which Rubel Shelly (their savior) says was "worked out in fear in trembling" by the people PARTERNING with God. Now that culture has change (like wow!) WE have to partner with God to work out a new set of Scriptures. The view that the Holy Spirit is the god of this dispensation makes repudiating the bible and saying "I don't care what the bible says" easy. However, "Holy" is not a first name. This view MARKS out people who believe that their understanding trumps Jesus and the Word because they are LED to believe that by the Spirit "person."

More tomorrow. Watch the fur fly!

Ken Sublett

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.115

Trinity

July 14 2004, 7:34 PM 

Sorry, I lied: I flunked the test so it is back to the doctor in the morning. Just no energy left: too many viper bites.

Ken

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.57

H. Leo Boles Trinity

July 15 2004, 9:59 AM 

First it is important to understand that the MIND and SPIRIT and HEART or innermost being are the same thing. Paul drew an identity between the Holy Spirit and the Mind of Christ in 1 Cor 2.

God's Spirit
Is to God
As our spirit
is to us

Here is some more good color blind stuff but it is important to see that this truth is well established in the Bible.

http://www.piney.com/HsMindSp.html

And:

http://www.piney.com/HsRom6.html

Here is the FATHER of the heresy which pervades perhaps half of churches of Christ. This is not original Restoration Movement but is about 1942.

http://www.piney.com/HolySpirit.html

There will, of course, be some duplication needed to prove each idea.

Here is some collected history.

http://www.piney.com/HsMindHist.html

As I have collected the historical documents I have annotated them and cross linked them with other articles as time has permitted. The trinity which is totally included in God is compared to the "trinity" (and more) within the human created in HIS image.

Note that the Nicean creed was to prove that JESUS was totally God and not a part of God. Arius taught that Jesus was a total creature of God. The fact is that Jesus was birthed for the incarnation or indwelling of the CHRIST OF GOD who is always one. The "father, son and spirit" are never separated.

I have anticipated all of those charts showing what the Holy Spirit Person did while SEPARATED fro God in Christ. If you just place the "name" of Jesus Christ in the place of "spirit" the problem is totally solved.

Feedback welcome.

Ken Sublett

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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