|Embarrased of this Site|
A Christian Shame
|July 11 2004, 8:41 PM |
Ken, you and this site 'almost' make me ashamed to be a Christian, because there are SOCIAL CLUBS that show more love than you exhibit in this forum. I only pray that people who are hurting and seeking the Lord DO NOT find this site in web searches for 'Church' or 'Churches of Christ' so that they are not disillusioned about real Christianity. Make no mistakes, you are no where near reflecting the heart of Jesus in reaching the lost by the words you write here. You, with all due respect sir, are a Pharisee!
Please tell me, where does the 'woman at the well' fit in your world? Would you welcome a repeatedly married adulteress in your congregation to help her to find salvation in the Lord? Or would you condemn her to hell because she doesn't quite understand every aspect of Church of Christ doctrine? Aren't her sins forgiveable?
Speaking of Church of Christ doctrine, what do you think caused 3,000 people to be baptized and added to the church on the day of Pentecost (look it up - 3,000 people, in ONE day)! Well now, let's see - it couldn't be Church doctrine because the Bible wasn't even completely written by that point. They had no idea about worship style except Jewish or paganistic. So, could it be that people understood the simplicity of the true Gospel - they were sinners in need of a savior?
So, Ken, where would YOU suggest today's 'woman at the well' find salvation and spiritual healing? Would she find that at your congregation? When was the last time an adult found healing at Jesus feet in your congregation and was baptized? How many people so far in 2004 have been brought to the Lord at your place of worship? If the answer isn't at least a dozen or so, you all have a lot of work to do, as does the Church as a whole. Do you really think there is that FEW people around you needing Jesus?
Speaking of Pentecost, please tell me, what would you think of a congregation in current times that baptized 3,000 people in ONE day? Would you say they are 'watering down the gospel'? Please don't fall back on the old 'God doesn't work that way anymore' cop out. God can work in any way He wants to. I frankly don't see why he would be more active then than He is now. I ask again - what is YOUR assessment of Pentecost? Weak Gospel preaching, a worship style to bring in the masses, or the simple, beautiful TRUTH?
Re: A Christian Shame
|July 15 2004, 1:54 PM |
Ken is following his conscience. Discernment is a subtle thing.For example, Worship based on driving emotions is still of the flesh. The Holy Speirit does not need Contemporary Chrsitian music-a billion dollar industry now, to 'stimulate' and 'set the mood' for worship. Worship is IN THE HEART, the soul, in spirit.
Again, discernment, quiet conviction and understanding, to 'see' that which is discerned is not showy. Whipping the emotions around by use of music and music performance is not necessarily worshipping.Applauding for performances in church is NOT worshipping, its applauding performances.Just saying, well, 'what's wrong with it?""it doesn't say NOT to use it in the Bible", is not enough.
|July 21 2004, 1:57 PM |
By loading up the 2004 lecture ship with non-believers (Liberals are unbelieving STUDENTS) ACU has created a firestorm of protest. We have referred to Charles Spurgeon who speaks on the very subject of baptism. He has to search for terms low enough to define one who would take pay from one church and not believe what they believe. Of course, the postmodern concept does not consider lying a sin because "we gotta save more souls."
We have also noted that the scholars at places like ACU and Lipscomb have done the work under one certified as a "scholar" who certifies others as a scholar. So it is a kind of rosy chain of self validation. However, they teach the Baptist or pagan form of believer's baptism and then try to find it in the bible. Zwingli is probably giggling in that he claimed and Luter agreed to have INVENTED faith only in 1525. However, Luther and Calvin label such nonsense as insanity.
Jeff Childers is one of the chain at ACU and we review some of his statements. We lift the quotes from another web page which BUYS the books (not me) and sends me quotes. Take a look to understand why Jesus said that doctors of the law take away the key to knowledge. A close search of the literature of the time proves that CHURCH also has the goal of taking away the key to knowledge by adopting a form of THRESKIA named after that vile, Orpheus, who invented the form ow worship we cann heresy: using music and other "exciting events" to raise you up to carry you away for their OWN use. Consistent with the end-time Babylon whore worship, they claim that non-musical churches are guilty of SECTARIANISM which cannot be true if the church DOES NOT agree to being LIFTED UP like a male lover lifts up their disciple.
For instance, when Childers connects baptism to the birth of Jesus you know that strong delusions have fallen all over the world. His book was sent out to placate the Bible believers in many churches but, as is common, the book teaches exactly what the college is accused of in the first place. This is a quick review.
|July 23 2004, 5:42 PM |
Each time I come to concernedmembers.com I become more and more discouraged. Not at the bad news concerning the church but at the perception you are leaving. I live in close proximity to the Hoenwald church and am extremely interested in what is going on there. Each time I see there is a new post I check it out and become disappointed. Not at a new revelation coming from Hoenwald but at the lack of information forthcoming. If there is no new info then don't make it appear as if there is. You are allowing things to be posted about very specific topics and yet no evidence is given supporting any claim that this problem exisits at this congregation. Is this info not better suited on "Sunday School in Exile."
|July 25 2004, 12:05 PM |
Hohenwald like most churches has had less loyalty to their fellow members and more loyalty to Promise Keepers, Jubilee, the Purpose Driven "cult," ACU who pledges to train Prophets, Chaneller and Facilitators to CHANGE the churches of Christ and on and on.
In two grand sweeps the church has "run off" the youth and their parents and then many of the remaining by subjecting the youth to the environment which ACU promises to facilitate. You will have to ask the youth and parents why they fled enmass. What is left knows that as oldsters their SUPPORT SYSTEM is "invested" and they will not leave. Others (yes, we know) live in fear that an e-mail might be disclosed and the will be fired without cause. Perhaps others are waiting for the short time span when the NEW STYLE WORSHIP will make them look like buffoons.
The division over charismatic singing, repudiating baptism, claiming that there is nothing wrong with instrumental music and "I don't care what the Bible says" has been sent to the elders and the county has problems with their leadership and the preacher who was hand selected to bring about changes. You can read the previous posts and be directed to the exchange.
The concerned members was started about three years ago because suddenly "membership" or "giving big money" does not give you the right to make suggestions or teach against what I believe to be heresy. This is part of the PK Shepherding and Purpose Driven, hyper-Calvinist CIRCLE of membership which considers those outside of the leadership (self-selected) as laity, "complimentarians" and "audience." This repudiates Christ as the Head of the Body and the shepherds as "teachers of that which HAS BEEN taught."
Because of the intimate discipleship to the CHANGE AGENTS and the course they have taken it must be a fact that they agree with Shelly that all but seven facts have been blown away: the rest is divisive teachings by divisive, non-inspired apostles.
They are willing to ditto head a man who claims to being "partnering with God" to get a new set of truth and a Max Lucado who repudiates baptism and CUTS DEEPLY into old legalists who don't grasp that the THIEF ON THE CROSS invalidates ALL of the rest of the teachings. Rather than being a laughingstock like the musical idolaters at Mount Sinai they are applauded for revealing a NEW STYLE WORSHIP.
After labeling honest letter writers as LIARS and dividers, someone produced a "white paper" which says exactly what the critics claim they taught. Because God MIGHT save someone without baptism they refuse to teach the Biblical facts. As in the Childers paper, they use 'approving' words about Baptism but repeat the same false teachings. If "salvation comes near" that probably means that peole were just saved by osmosis. But Salvation means Jesus came near.
It is doubtful that you can be disciples of false teachers without being promoters of their doctrine.
After trying to counter teach against "charismatic singing" which drives people into psychosis while claiming that the sexual stimulus is SPIRIT" the response was "waal it don't matter." I tried to dispel the H. Leo Boles, Lipscomb and the GA heresy about the "Family of Gods" I was told that there was no hope for anyone who didn't believe in the trinity version which no one in history taught prior to Boles. John Mark Hicks (the Lipscome Music discorder who wants to make the Lord's supper into a "feeding god" RITUAL with jubilation" concedes that Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly are the modern promoters of a neo-trinity. We know that it is unique with the GA "wing" of the churches of Christ. Several simply shut their mouths when they 'WORSHIPPED' the Names of Father, Jesus (Je-Zeus) and the Holy Spirit person.
Trying to look at the prophets to whom Paul points in his "commentary" might "subvert the young people." In short, every one is silenced who does not tow the ill-informed creed of the hills. Tribalism has always been a backwoods trait but it is being ENFORCED by the Promise Keepers (the discorder when I returned) system of DISCIPLING by Lynn Anderson, Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly. The Promise Keepers have admitted to turning to SHEPHERDING which is the old Cross roads or Internationa church of Christ dominion of the people: that translates Nicolaitans. They and the Purpose Driven Cult have also adopted the scam against Madison which is to "infiltrate and divert." Take the property and change the bylaws to protect your heresy which means "to lift up with music to take away other people's property for your OWN use."
The return of a favorite son came equipped with training in the Purpose Driven Cult which had to be modified because it WON'T WORK with mature churches--meaning the Biblical literate. He also wrote a favorable review of the system. The problem is that NO ONE in the church has the right to impose ANY thing not Biblical in their belief that "we gotta do ANYTHING to SAVE MORE SOULS."
I have no alternative but to believe that when I caught on to what I believed to be the "divert" system in 1997 I, like the Believers in Jerusalem, was driven out into the real "wilderness" to begin a ministry of teaching the truth that GOSPEL means "all ye that labor from spiritual anxiety created by religious, come aside, REST and learn of ME." It's working.
The suggestion was made that Madison should begin a Web page to counter the "musical and tithing" heresy at madison. They choose the FORUM format which was brilliant. This gives the EXILED and effectively-excommunicated dues-paying members the Jesus-given right to go preach the gospel of freedom from what is rapidly becoming cults.
As a first poster I continue to post in all of the forums and, like you, when I preach about baptism I do not assume that all of the many readers need a SERMON because they are guilty. GO PREACH does not take notice of the condition of the listeners. But, I have no evidence that the false teachings which drove away a significant number of PREVIOUS OWNERS have been changed. My opinion is that they aced me out of lots of money knowing that they were going to try to change to--as accused--a Community Church which, in Shelly's teachings means a COMMUNE. However, I knew that I was violating the fact that there IS NO LAW OF TITHING AND NO LAW OF GIVING to a secular society. But, this was another of my Gullible Travels. Three times it has happened: that makes me DUMBER than an earthworm which will not make the same mistake THREE times.
P.S. Driving the Purpose
|July 25 2004, 1:01 PM |
I forgot to tell you that the proof of the Purpose Driven "Cult" lies in the following.
I knew Archie Luper in Murfreesbor. He was a trainer for restaurants. He was made into some kind of "minister" by the church. This did not last long and he was a goner. He went to Eagleville and then on to his little Purpose Driven Church. He is a promoter of the Baptist Purpose Driven system. Murfreesboro often barely dodges bullets.
A county preacher infiltrated Archie to teach some kind of "fast food organization" for churches I suppose. They try to pick a very conservative church to add credibility. Well, the preacher decided that he could no longer preach what he did not believe: good but late as Charles Spurgeon would say.
He was immediately gulped up and made Associate Minister. He taught a Wednesday night class which spread the false teachings and apparently told (I just get e-mails unsolicited) the women that they were being abused. Waal-ul: Old Paul knew that when you turn women loose some will rise to the top and go charismatic. This caused lots of the problem as it did in Corinth. The ZOE group which promotes the musical heresy is LUCIFER or in Greek Phos or Helios (the S.U.N. god Shelly wants to use to think about the S.O.N. God). One of the meanings of ZOE is "the scum which rises to the top of milk." Isn't that amazing.
The "leadership" had to know that the "preacher" was going to help infiltrate the cult. As the "son" noted, it is hard to do when people know their Bible. Many simply do not want to be mishandled by people for their own glory. Most of these scams plan to lose two thirds of their members--after getting on a financial footing.
I shudder because this is the MARK of the end-times and has been flooded into faithful churches (and denominations which are Bible based) so powerfully that it has to be Satan working miraclous which will suck in all but a tiny remnant. However, the Christian Chronicles, the organ of the CHANGERS of Okey U, laments that only 5 out of 1300 congregations have added instruments. "Instruments"included close harmony using anti-Biblical songs.
I don't think anyone will trust you to e-mail you but maybe they can get it to you in a brown paper bag.
FILM & FAITH?
|July 29 2004, 3:11 PM |
If someone dragged (or is it drugged) my child off to a private house to show them how MUSIC and MOVIES build FAITH I would call the child welfare people. FAITH & FILM is the ongoing futile fight against Christ and His Word. A Drama expert noted that "drama works because we know that it isn't true." And it is anti-Biblical to suggest that viewing any films or listening to ANY music is a faith builder. That is one of the most ancient, pagan and legalistic superstitions.
"All early civilizations saw their ideal music as an image (idol) of cosmic order and its practice in temple ritual and court ceremonial as a means of helping to maintain or reflect universal harmony. From such a philosophy stem the age-old concepts of the efficacy of numerical proportions in musical sound; the ethos (magical effect) of particular modes; the music of the spheres; and the musical foundation of the state. Such ideas steadfastly maintained throughout the ages, made for very conservative traditions of music whose fundamental patterns changed little over long periods of time." (Britannica, Music, p. 1091)
This is because Plato knew that when MUSICAL STYLES change they are not thinking about SONGS but the type of songs. He knew that when the STYLE OF MUSIC CHANGES the secret agenda was to CHANGE THE LAWS."
We have noted that MUSIC means SEXUALITY: there is no recorded exception other the innocent PLAYING of Children. It is interesting that MIMESIS always means IMITATION of the real thing. Singing and Drama are two or three steps removed from the TRUTH OF GOD which BELIEVERS rely on to train the youth.
"Of particular interest is the way that early modern playwrights, music theorists, and theater apologists addressed this conflated language of the "enemy," by echoing the same connections between sexuality and playing found in the most virulent anti theatrical tracts.
"As this paper will demonstrate, by "playing" with the conflate language, these writers defended their art,
justifying their existence in a society that was both seduced and repulsed by them. By claiming the polemical anti theatrical language, these players escaped from the ideological margins to which their opponents had tried to relegate them.
Using the artifices of mimosas (imitation) and comedy they pointed out and
defused their opponents' anxieties about music, theater, and sexuality,
creating a space for players in the cultural mainstream."
Johanes Quasten. In Music and Worship in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, beginning on page 41:
"Philodemus considered it paradoxical that music should be regarded as veneration of the gods while musicians were paid for performing this so-called veneration. Again, Philodemus held as self deceptive the view that music mediated religious ecstasy.
He saw the entire condition induced by the noise of cymbals and tambourines as a disturbance of the spirit.
He found it significant that, on the whole, only women and effeminate men fell into this folly.
Accordingly, nothing of value could be attributed to music; it was no more than a slave of the sensation of pleasure, which satisfied much in the same way that food and drink did.
"Women and girls from the different ranks of society were proud to enter the service of the gods as singers and musicians. The understanding of this service was universal: these singers constituted the 'harem of the gods'." (End of Quasten)
Aristotle in Poetics notes
"Epic poetry, then, and the poetry of tragic drama, and, moreover, comedy and dithyrambic poetry, and most flute-playing and harp-playing, these, speaking generally, may all be said to be "representations of life." [That means a pseudo-Christ or an Anti-Christ]
"For just as by the use both of color and form people represent many objects, making LIKENESSES [idols] of them--  some having a knowledge of ART and some working empirically--and just as others use the human voice; so is it also in the arts which we have mentioned, they all make their representations in rhythm and language and tune, using these means either separately or in combination. For tune and rhythm alone are employed in flute-playing and harp-playing and in any other arts which have a similar function, as, for example, pipe-playing. Rhythm alone without tune is employed by dancers in their representations, for by means of rhythmical gestures they REPRESENT both character and experiences and actions.
Are human hymns IDOLS? http://www.piney.com/MuHymnIdol.html
Life "presents" to the artist the phenomena of sense, which the artist "Represents" in his OWN medium, giving coherence, designing a PATTERN. That this is true not only of drama and fiction but also of instrumental music ("most flute-playing and harp-playing") was more obvious to a Greek than to us, since Greek instrumental music was more definitely imitative
Of course, Paul spoke of singing from the Corinthians OWN spirit as speaking into the AIR. The SOUNDING and CLANGING speak of warfare and SORCERY.
Mimêtês to Paul meant an IMITATOR and connected it to the THEATER which was clearly the VENUE of perverts. In Cor.4.16; ho m. ton grammatôn FORGERS.
1 Cor 4:  For who makes you different? And what do you have that you didn't receive? But if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?  You are already filled. You have already become rich. You have come to reign without us. Yes, and I wish that you did reign, that we also might reign with you.  For, I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last of all, like men sentenced to death. For we are made a SPECTACLE to the world, both to ANGELS and men.  We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are wise in Christ. We are weak, but you are strong. You have honor, but we have dishonor.  Even to this present hour we hunger, thirst, are naked, are BEATEN, and have no certain dwelling place.  We toil, WORKING with our OWN HANDS. Being reviled, we bless. Being persecuted, we endure.  Being defamed, we entreat. We are made as the filth of the world, the dirt wiped off by all, even until now.  I don't write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children.  For though you have ten thousand tutors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, I became your father through the gospel.  I beg you therefore, be imitators of me.  Because of this I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways which are in Christ, even as I teach everywhere in every assembly.
Paul speaks of the MANY trained speaker who flooded into the new church. They saw this as just another VENUE to practice the hypocrite art of rhetoric, sOPHISty, singing, music and "projects." In order to discredit them Paul had to define his taking any help as robbery.
Paul uses the word theatron which is where the naked dances or cosmos were held and were shameful meaning the "exposure of the pudentia." This also meant gumniteuô to be naked to make a GOOD spectacle. Paul alludes to the the Greeks:
"But as for the place where the Grecians inhabit, ten thousand destructions have overtaken it, and blotted out the memory of former actions; so that they were ever beginning a NEW WAY of LIVING, and supposed that every one of them was the origin of their new state. The context PROVES that Paul was warning about the TEN THOUSAND GENERATIONS where truth was lost and people just MADE FORGERIES. Thinking of THEATRON and MUSIC or MAGIC or EXEGETIC is a FRAUD and a FORGERY and spiritual wickedness in high places.
For who makes YOU different? And what do you have that you didn't receive? But if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?
Of the artist (cf. mimesas 11 ), one who IMPERSONATES characters, as an actor or poet [It is a fact that because all but prostitute women were outlawed in the theater, MALES were FEMALE IMPERSONATORS.]
Tutors were the pedagogues or Tyrants. A word similar to mimêtês whch included the masturbator one who defiles himself. Aristophanes makes us aware that this was a highly developed sport and was dedicated to a god or goddess. Masturbating on the "goddess" was a form of MOCKING which was their form of "worship" as the Hebrew HALAL most often means to "make self vile" and quite identical to cHALAL which can be "take your inheritance, play the flute, pollute or prostitute." However, "eis Christon has guided us until attainment of faith in Christ, Ep.Gal.3.24
This was the end product of music which always intends to induce a form of madness until ritual prostitution with female and emasculated males became the priests or "ministers of the gods." The Classics make it fully clear that when a child was turned over to a PEDAGOGUE he became the property of the "minister." It was understood that the teacher could USE the student as a female. Charismatic "worship" rituals are VIRTUAL sexuality and homosexuality. Romans 1 speaks of several key events to prove just WHAT it is which PRODUCES homosexuality among many. This also explains why ALL priesthoods were populated by homosexuals: and lots of Catholic "musical styles" originated in monasteries. Turn away from the CHILD LEADERS Paul would insist:
For in Christ Jesus, I became your FATHER through the gospel.  I beg you therefore, be IMITATORS (mimêtês) of me.
For ye, brethren, became followers (mimetes) of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: 1Th.2:14
But hay! THIS generation has decided that ALL WHO CAME BEFORE ME WERE THIEVES AND LIARS (Zwingli on faith-only). WE do not preach from the EPISTLES as the DIVISIVE wrangling of DIVIDED Apostles. Therefore, being Anti-Paul and therefore Anti-Christ they decided that the always-perverted THEATRON (Harding has a group so named and FHC sends gargoyles or demons as "missionaries."
I am troubled that, as prophesied of the end-times, so many churches have ADOPTED "worship" styles which ATTRACT some and REPULSE others: music produces ENDORPHINS and the effect is FIGHT, FLIGHT or SEXUALITY. Others will have to make up their own minds but I would not let my child participate in YOUTH GROUPS (I did once but it was clear that it had to be WATCHED). I will leave the motives to others but parents will answer! But, with more experience, I agree with LaGard Smith that "Youth" ministers have caused most of the division in the church. Sorry about that but the scholarly opinion is that MUSIC was invented by demons and demigods to steal worship and CHILDREN from God.
This is Where the Youth Ministers Are Getting False Doctrine. And undoubtedly the accompanying attitude.
I have been gone too long
|August 2 2004, 7:27 PM |
I have been away much too long on an earthly walk that proved to be unrewarding. I have made it back to get right with God and to live the life as a soldier of Christ. Much to my dismay, I can not seem to recognize what I left. The songs are different and people don't seem to have a respect for dressing appropriatly for worship. I attended Lipscomb and Madison in the early 80's. Thank you Ken for your insight and your vigilance standing guard at the gate. I have much to catch up on and would like a personal dialogue with you or someone with a like mind. They can take anything earthly from me but my soul I will fight. I am equipping myself for battle and that wolf or "angel of light" will know that I will not go!!!
Thanks again to those not willing to compromise with this world. How can I reach you?
|August 3 2004, 9:38 AM |
On another thread we are looking at the notion that people believe that they are guided by the Holy Spirit:
They think that if anything comes into their HEAD they can convince everyone that they had better not THREATEN GOD'S ANNOINTED AGENTS.
I have found it interesting that the WOLF is God's symbol for the SHINNING ONE. She was Lucifer (heylel) in the garden of Eden and Helios in the Greek world. She is directly connected to ZOE meaning life where the ZOE GROUP instructs the simple minded how to CALL DOWN THE FIRES. She is also Saturn (666) and other of the Wandering Stars. She is Aster and the Heliacal Rising is in the Fall: probably September.
Lipscomb has the LAMBS in her teeth. She has removed Lipscomb's name and is now LU. That could be LUcifer based on her "scholars" or it might be Looney U. Hohenwald has decided that "because we gotta save more souls" that they can--in the name of the postmodern ignorance--do the THEATRICAL PERFORMANCE singing (sanging) which is CHARISMATIC which parses directly to an image of perversion:
Normal people do what you always do when teaching the Word in song and sermon turns into MAGICAL ENCHANTMENTS which want to make love with god: they have an overwhelming FLUSH over their entire body of FIGHT, FLIGHT or (if they remain) SEXUALITY. ALL musical words (as opposed to teaching) such as Musica, Cantus, Melodia are intimately connected to MAGICA of which EXEGETICE and HERMENUO are grouped. All of these concepts create a PHOBIA or fear which is the name of Apollo who formed the early SEEKER CENTER. He is Abaddon or Apollyon and the MUSICIANS are his MUSES or musical performers or LOCUSTS. Culminating in Revelation 18:22 all of the TRAFFICKERS with music will go back into hell from whence the muses (locusts) have been loosed.
So the FEELING you get proves that a dark cloud has settled over the entire county. Indeed, the little city set on one of the HILLS has always been on the raw edge of the FRONTIER and history will note that the shoot-out at our little OK sheepfold has been as violent as any in history. But the GREY HAIRS are dispensible 'cause WE GOTTA SAVE MORE SOULS. It is a fact that Hohenwald has been tested with WWJD or what would I have done at the cross: too many just musically MOCK as they did the first time as Jesus Christ is crucified all over again to the extent that they "offend hundreds of these little ones" and refuse to give them "a cup of cold water of the Word."
My e-mail is always open and I will not tattle: people have cause to worry about their job (cause we will DO ANYTHING to save more souls).
I am at 796-7841, 1090 Little Swan Creek Road. I have some good pressure treated 6X6 ready for those who threaten to come down and hang me. TRUE, saw a grey wolf under the pear tree. Is that a sign?
Another city put under a bushel
|August 5 2004, 2:52 AM |
Not only Tennessee and Texas but here in Florida too, do these plagues exist. Clapping, liberal dress, Promise Keepers, and that dreaded NIV. Symptoms that hit me this evening like a ton of bricks.( And they seemed so nice....) What do I do? I do not feel "equipped" to handle a sit down with the elders and the minister and as I look around, I see no friendly's in the midst. Afraid? Not at all! I have been up against way worse in my carnal walk. But, I have always had great patience...
I have read steadfastly concerning music, speaking in tongues and women in the pulpit. Also of pagan worship/holidays and Bible frauds but am lacking this whole rapture thing expoused by pentecostals and their ultimate knowledge of baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was told that without such a baptism, I would not be able to discern my reading of the Word. What do you know about this and are you aware of how the pentecostal movement began after the reformation? I unfortunately have to do battle with them also on a near daily basis. Thanks!
Re: I have been gone too long
|November 19 2004, 2:27 PM |
Thanking Ken Sublett for "guarding the gate" is like thanking the wolf for guarding the henhouse. I realize this response comes late, but I just read it today. Wolfslayer, if it isn't too late, I implore you to seek other information and consult Ken Sublett's other posts on this website before you jump to any conclusions. Please look at all the information with an open mind before you begin praising him as the fountain of all knowledge.
If you will read his countless posts on this site, you will see that he approaches everything with a closed mind. He uses personal insults and attacks and automatically condemns anyone who doesn't agree with him. The best advice I can give you is to read your Bible (compare and contrast translations--KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, etc.) with an OPEN MIND and then draw your own conclusion.
Jesus told the Pharisees, "Woe to you, Pharisees... hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you do, you make him twice as much as on of hell as you are!" Mr. Sublett is the very LAST person on earth who needs to be winning disciples!
|December 11 2004, 11:50 AM |
Andy, you describe Ken as "he approaches everything with a closed mind. He uses personal insults and attacks and automatically condemns anyone who doesn't agree with him." With those credentials Ken seems well qualified to now become a member of the staff at a ministry called Engedi, because you have given a perfect description of Engedi's chief spokesman, Dr. David Lawrence, of Lipscomb University. (see associated online sites.) Are you sure you didn't click on the wrong church (Smith Springs) and accidentally type in the wrong name?
Re: Hohenwald Church of Christ, Hohenwald, TN
|August 3 2004, 7:34 PM |
Did Jesus Dance?
|August 6 2004, 1:10 AM |
To my understanding, and no one will question it, Jesus is God, the Son and the Holy Spirit. As such, I can't seem to find where he fell to ground, danced, and spoke in tongues after his baptism. Also, besides the gift of language, I do not read anywhere how the Apostles were slain in the spirit. Walking, talking and living with Jesus I guess did not qualify them to experience the ecstacy. I guess I will continue to read in the early history books to see if any of the early church fathers witnessed it. Can't seem to find it in the Bible.
Jesus REFUSED to SING and DANCE
|August 6 2004, 11:42 AM |
Most new paganism fails to recognize that Israel rose up to PLAY at Mount Sinai. This was musical and therefore perverted worship of the Egyptian Triad under the image of the golden calf (calves). Steven confirms the prophets that God turned them over to worship the starry hosts. This included the sun, moon and known planets or wandering stars. This included Saturn whose name in Chaldee is 666. God gave them kings in his anger to carry out the captivity an death sentence imposed at Mount Sinai.
Donnie Cruz notes:
"There was also an extra song, a favorite "praise" song of Keith's and his musical group, with these words: "You have turned our mourning into dancing." This "worship" [?] song is taken from King David's personal experience. "THOU HAST TURNED FOR ME MY MOURNING INTO DANCING, THOU HAST PUT OFF MY SACKCLOTH, AND GIRDED ME WITH GLADNESS." (Psalms 30:11)
DANCING is one of the major issues with the Saddle Back church. However, we noted in our Strauss review which tries to FORCE the change agenda that dancing, leaping and hopping was a major part of always-perverted pagan worship.
You should know that this is a POEM and POEMS tend to be POETIC:
"Lord, by thy favour thou hast made my mountain to stand strong: thou didst hide thy face, and I was troubled. Psalm 30:7
"Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness; Psalm 30:11
TO THE END THAT my glory (lightness) may sing praise TO THEE, and not be silent. O Lord my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever. Psalm 30:12
Davis was not a public "praise leader" and the people's congregation never worshipped with "singing, dancing and instruments."
The word for dance is:
Machowl (h4234) maw-khole'; from 2342; a (round) dance: - dance (- cing).
"Dancing" is based on a disputed translation of the Hebrew term machowl, rendered as "dancing" in Psalm 149:3 and as "dance" in Psalm 150:4.
Some scholars believe that machowl is derived from chuwl, which means "to make an opening"--a possible allusion to a "pipe" instrument. Others see it as a lute because of its cheerful sound.
In fact this is the marginal reading given by the King James Version. Psalm 149:3 states: "Let them praise his name in the dance" [or "with a pipe," KJV margin]. Similarly Psalm 150:4 reads: "Praise him with the timbrel and dance" [or "pipe," KJV margin]. This marginal reading is in agreement with Psalm 149:3 or 150:4:
In Psalm 150 there are eight instruments: trumpet, psaltery, harp, timbrel, stringed instruments, organs, cymbals, clashing cymbals. The "pipe" is the only missing instrument. Therefore, the word DANCE has no place as the name of a musical instrument.
The Warrior's Dance
The Hebrew word mechowlah is translated seven times as "dance." In five of the seven instances the dance is by women who celebrate a military victory (1 Sam 18:6; 21:11; 29:5; Jud 11:34; Ex 15:20). Miriam and the women danced to celebrate the victory over the Egyptian army (Ex 15:20). Jephthah's daughter danced to celebrate her father victory over the Ammonites (Jud 11:34). Women danced to celebrate David's slaughter of the Philistines (1 Sam 18:6; 21:11: 29:5).
In the remaining two instances mechowlah is used to describe the naked dance of Israelites around the golden calf (Ex 32:19) and the dance of the daughters of Shiloh in the vineyards (Jud 21:21).
The Levitical choir was to be accompanied only by stringed instruments, the harp and the lyre (2 Chron 5:13; 1 Chron 16:42). Percussion instruments like drums and tambourines, which were commonly used for making DANCE music, were clearly omitted.
The trumpet was used only by the priests to gain attention. Some instruments were used AROUND the temple to give glory to the MONARCHY
The translation "dancing" is within a list of MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS most of which were NEVER ACCEPTABLE in animal sacrifices in the court of the temple. Since the LIST is a list of musical instruments, the Machowl must be a musical instrument. By analogy, the pipe is elsewhere defined by it being perforated.
We do not, in a religious sense, praise God on COUCHES (Psa 149:5) or "with a two edged sword in our teeth." Nor, do we smash the enemy's baby's heads out.
All of these are VICTORY over the enemy praises.
Therefore, the DANCE has place only among the children, women in secular frolics, prostitutes or celebrating victory over an enemy.
|August 6 2004, 7:50 PM |
I will question your "and no one will question it" statement. Are you saying that Jesus was both the Son and The Holy Spirit? Scripture says otherwise. No time to document now but needless to say, it does. If this is not what you are saying then could you clarify your statement.
|August 13 2004, 11:13 AM |
Sorry about the request for study resources being late. I would suggest that you go to the home page
and click on
LINKS to Biblical documents
This will link you to all of the important dictionaries, encyclopedias and historical literature. You can find here what you will not find in most of the universities.
When you find something you plan to use often, load it up and select it as
a BOOKMARK or FAVORITE.
That will allow you to call up the resource jiffy quick. I still intend to make a shorter list of resources but I find that I use a lot of this big list.
On the Home Page, the SEARCH THIS SITE (lower on left) will let you enter any keyword or phrase and I will have written or posted something about your topic of interest.
The Topical is a master index of about everything on my site: 200 plus topics and about 2200 documents or research papers. (still messy)
Hope this helps those having navigating problems.
Re: Hohenwald Church of Christ, Hohenwald, TN
|January 6 2006, 2:02 PM |
Some desperate housewife living off some church of Christ in Centerville CLAIMS that her DENOMINATION is not the same as the CHURCH OF CHRIST DENOMINATION in Middle Tennesse.
That means that she is living off the people in Centerville but is NOT a member of the church of Christ. She repudiates ALL of the principles of the church of Christ and uses the usual hireling-changeling mantra that YOU ARE LEGALISTIC if you follow the Bible.
She has been lied to by the desperate housewives from Hohenwald blaming this writer for the DISCORD they deliberately sowed in Hohenwald. She still claims friendships.
At the same time she works the Faithsite.com debate forum. I have respond to just a FEW of her slanders against "piney" whom everyone knows to be Kenneth Sublett. She may be the one whose Hohenwald "friends" told her that piney was the TOWN DRUNK.
I have linked her here requesting feedback from someone in CENTERVILLE who may be under the Purpose Driven Cult influence.
A new CLAIM bashing churches of Christ obviously to make people unhappy with the conservative church of Christ so they will JOIN their group is:
Striving and lying:
The Divorce rate in the Church in Tennessee I'm hearing is at 50% or more.
That would not surprise me because her HANDLERS in the NEW STYLE WORSHIP CULT loves to tell everyone that NOT using instrumental music or believing in Baptism CAUSES DIVORCE and MENTAL ILLNESS. That was part of the PRESSURE taught by Le Bon which I have posted and ADOPTED by Hitler. It was earlier used by Machiavelli followed by the CHANGE MOVEMENT apparently as a COLLEGE EXERCISE in mind control. It is a fact that mega-churches promoted by Shelly and adopted in Hohenwald ATTEMPTS to make radical changes and ADDS ministeries and COSTS to add more spiritual anxiety which Jesus died to destroy.
The Associated Press 12/30/99 1:31 AM Eastern
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) -- Baptists have the highest divorce rate of any Christian denomination, and are more likely to get a divorce than ATHEISTS and agnostics, according to a national survey.
The survey conducted by Barna Research Group in Ventura, Calif., found that 29 percent of all adult Baptists have been through a divorce. Among Christian groups, only those who attend non-denominational Protestant churches were more likely to be divorced, with a 34 percent divorce rate.
There is NO WAY to collect such data for churches of Christ. My own experiences around the country would say that Striving is just lying to BAD MOUTH churches of Christ which SHE CLAIMS is not her "denomination."
Because 75% of marriages are PERFORMED by preachers as a RELIGIOUS RITUAL that may explain why "churchers" fail worse than ATHEISTS. Maybe if Striving etal ceased the divorce rate would go down. I suspect that LOTS of divorces happen when Striving's preacher friends REPUDIATE what the Bible says about Divorce and remarriage.
Striving and lying: According to Kaioros Church planting, Tennessee is at zero growth although although the population has grown significantly in the last ten years (10-20%)
One of Striving's friend's church has hired a KAIOROS CHURCH PLANTING
"minister" and I believe the RESULT from all of the expenditure will be ONE CONGREGATION PER YEAR. These will be MISSIONAL CHURCHES which is a CULT.
See what Striving's mentor, Rubel Shelly, is promoting:
Just as the MENTOR of a Hohenwald fan, ACU's Carroll D. Osburn has taught that the "christian colleges" must train PROPHETS, CHANELLERS AND FACILITATORS" to go out and MAKE THE CHANGES to conservative churches of Christ.
The MISSIONAL church planting being taught at Rochester "restores" the five-fold SUPERNATURAL GIFTS of the original church. A planted church will have its OWN Apostle and Prophet.
entrepreneur / innovator - the apostle
questioner - the prophet
recruiter - the evangelist
humanizer - the pastor
systematizer - the teacher
1. it pushes us to see the function of these gifts in any church team.
Striving and her friends have seen the NEW STYLE WORSHIP heresy discord and destroy many churches of Christ and they have done ALL of the damage they can do with only a half dozen or so which have added instrumental music out of over 13,000 congregations. Therefore, they have INVENTED the word MISSIONAL
to make the FOOLS think that they are MISSIONARY. They are not: Rubel Shelly promotes the LOCATED MISSIONARY. If you following Striving's friends you will have YOUR OWN APOSTLE: like Rubel Shelly and John York, they will PARTNER with God to "work out their own salvation" which they interpret as a NEW SET OF SCRIPTURES.
The CULT insists that the members as "indiviiduals HAVE NO RIGHT to read, interpret or SPEAK the Word outside of the COMMUNITY"
which translates to COMMUNE. By using the FREEDOM they mean FREEDOM from Christ and the Bible but CAPTIVITY under disfunctional preachers who are EXCLUDED from the work of the church as are all of the OTHER parasites Striving's friend wants YOU to feed.
Striving and lying: At least 50%( I've heard up to 75% nationally- might be right, might not be) of all brought up in the Church here will eventually walk away from it. If these statistics are accurate , and I think the top two are , what does it reflect?
Because churches of Christ are NOT a denomination there is NO WAY Striving could know. The OLD rough estimate was corrected and the NEW estimate is that there are over 13,000 congregations where the OLD estimate was much higher. If you QUIT using preacher count and get your numbers honest that DOES NOT mean a loss of membership. Many of those who are presently LEAVING are leaving because of the WACKOS who have invaded the pulpits and their PUSH for growth and money which makes them a CULT. If you want to find the STRAYING SHEEP you have to look in HOME GROUPS which is the way it all began before striving's friends began building MEGA TEMPLES. About 9,000 church building closed down last year and people ARE NOT GOING TO support the Parasites anymore.
Those who RAN THEM AWAY now want MORE MONEY to RETAIN THEM. Striving's friends do it this way: "The RUN OFF the grey hairs and OWNERS of the church, infiltrate and DIVERT it into a THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMEN" and take the name of CHRIST off the sign. Therefore, the call ENTERTAINMENT ATTENDANCE "church growth" and get the fools to pay them for perverting the church.
That retention rate is MUCH higher than Jesus could muster because BEING A CHRISTIAN brings being "despised and rejected by men." Striving and her MERCHANDISERS want you to believe that BEING POPULAR is the way Christianity works. Just the opposite is true.
Anyway, we have seen that the CHANGE AGENTS deliberately lie to BAD MOUTH and bite the hand that feeds them to make people SO UNHAPPY with their old church that they will FALL like ripe pears into their grasping hands.
Purpose Driven Cult
|September 6 2006, 8:39 AM |
Please read the post on the Purpose Driven Cult here:
Change the names and you have Hohenwald: the guilty have commited the ONE sin that God hates--sowing discord among brethren.
Change the names and you have the story of Hohenwald except no one started a new church.
This mortal sin falls into Hebrews 6 and there is no more blood or grace left.
Re: Purpose Driven Cult
|February 5 2007, 9:39 PM |
Say it aint so!
Not Hole in the wall too!
If it can happen to Hohenwald, then it can happen anywhere!!!