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Anonymous
(Login ConcernedMembers)
ConcernedMembersChurchList
67.32.206.5

Re: The Problem with Lucifer...

December 17 2003, 8:01 AM 

The Luciferians know the name of the "one" that they worship.

Who are we to argue?

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
4.33.45.158

Re: Re: The Problem with Lucifer...

December 18 2003, 1:09 AM 

So you admit the information is false. Just because someone changed the meaning under the guise of a KJV translator...which in the future people took their false translation and turned it into a proper name.

The word Lucifer was later thought to be a proper name...long after the supposed sources on this site uses them to refer to music.

I will no longer post or read the drivel on this site. People were right...you're all nuts who need therapy.

 
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Sacred Cow
(no login)
68.52.185.199

Mooolelujah

December 25 2003, 1:39 PM 

Ken, Ken, Ken.
I do adore you so. It's intersting that you feel like you have been ordained to inform the past generations and generations to come of the evil that lerks around our church corners.


"So, I have to go on and on. Just say ZOE (Lucifer) and you define Otter Creek, Shelly, York, etal. Nuff sed?

There ARE new readers and OLD infidels so I have to repeat for each generation. Why do you singy-clappers say Lord lord (Hallelujah) 20 times?"

You see Ken, the problem is this. Well one of the problems that is, I know, and adore many friends who worship at the Creek. I'm sorry, but when I say or hear ZOE, I don't define them as Lucifer. Nuff sed? Of course not. You know it's not. You're a coward. With an intense blend of arrogance and ingnorance.

Are you so bold to know the hearts of so many that you have never met or worshipped with? Do you know my heart. I know, you're thinking I'm a coward too for describing myself as a sacred cow, and you're right, I fear if I were to reveal myself that it would only hurt our loving relationship.

Singy-Clappers. Right? Is that your lightening bolt to strike at my heart? Why do "we" say Lord, Lord 20 times? Shall I answer you. Here's just a few reasons to mention the Lord over and over again in a song of praise - if you hold the Old Testament as valid - you'll find ample evidence below.

Psalm 7:17
I will give thanks to the LORD because of his righteousness and will sing praise to the name of the LORD Most High. (He's always righteous - right?)

Psalm 9:1
I will praise you, O LORD , with all my heart; I will tell of all your wonders. (I can speak of his wonders without pausing - right?)

Psalm 9:2
I will be glad and rejoice in you; I will sing praise to your name, O Most High. (I'm glad, so I should rejoice)

Psalm 9:11
Sing praises to the LORD , enthroned in Zion; proclaim among the nations what he has done. (Proclaim to all nations what he has done? That could take a long time)

Psalm 21:13
Be exalted, O LORD , in your strength; we will sing and praise your might. (He is mighty)

Psalm 26:7
proclaiming aloud your praise and telling of all your wonderful deeds. (His wonderful deeds don't stop)

Psalm 30:4
Sing to the LORD , you saints of his; praise his holy name. (Does he have a holy name - yep he does)

Psalm 33:1
Sing joyfully to the LORD , you righteous; it is fitting for the upright to praise him. (Are you upright?)

Psalm 33:2
Praise the LORD with the harp; make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre. (Mooops, I bet this verse makes you sick to your tummy)

Psalm 35:28
My tongue will speak of your righteousness and of your praises all day long. (All day long? That's a lot)

Psalm 43:4
Then will I go to the altar of God, to God, my joy and my delight. I will praise you with the harp, O God, my God. (Mooops, I did it again)

Psalm 44:8
In God we make our boast all day long, and we will praise your name forever. Selah (All day long again?)

Psalm 45:17
I will perpetuate your memory through all generations; therefore the nations will praise you for ever and ever. (There are your generations and mine)

Psalm 47:6
Sing praises to God, sing praises; sing praises to our King, sing praises. (Sing praises - that's a good song)

Psalm 52:9
I will praise you forever for what you have done; in your name I will hope, for your name is good. I will praise you in the presence of your saints. (I will praise you forever? WOW!)

Psalm 61:8
Then will I ever sing praise to your name and fulfill my vows day after day. (Day after day? - see a pattern yet?)

Psalm 71:8
My mouth is filled with your praise, declaring your splendor all day long. (All day?)

Psalm 78:4
We will not hide them from their children; we will tell the next generation the praiseworthy deeds of the LORD , his power, and the wonders he has done. (And those generations again!)

This is just a few as you know. I'm sure you won't post this though.

Sounds to me like saying Lord Lord, 20 times doesn't cut it. All day long, forever, praising your name, epsecially to generations to come so that they'll remember his works and deeds, his power and wonders! Sounds to me like I have more than enough to be thankful for, day in and day out, in fact enough to last me a lifetime. Again, is 20 times enough, I doubt it. It's sad that you would be threatened by such praise.

You see this redundant material is requested and expected.

Your redundant material - it's a bit different to say the least.

You do remember Daivd don't you. A man after God's own heart. He made some mistakes. But he praised the Lord to the end of his days. In fact recorded most of what you read above.

Ken, you should try saying Lord Lord more than 20 times a day, it just might change your life. - But then again you'd have to start another web site and then all your "web friends" might be mad at you - right?

Just curious, are you mad because you hear us singy-clappers, repeat praises over and over again. What else should I be doing? How else should I be singing and praises the Lord. Please include instructions for me to praise - I and a few others must have missed something.

Sacred Praising Cow
Wishing you a Moooooey Christmas - Do you celebrate Christmas?

Moderator - Please approve my moooosage.



 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.120

Blasphemous use of the word Jehovah!

December 25 2003, 10:29 PM 

Now, singy clappy, all you have to do is to prove that David was a WORSHIP LEADER. He was the KING (if you remember the card classes) and with the COMMANDERS of the ARMY organized surplus Levitical Warrior Panic sounders (like surplus Phds) to give glory to the King and to the TEMPLE STATE which was a LIKE THE NATIONS pagan temple.

David only LED the congregation of the PEOPLE twice and he got so excited that he went naked with the camp following slave girls. He ROSE UP TO PLAY in the same sense that the Israelites engaged in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. The same word is used of Samson who GROUND in the king's house and that wasn't grinding CORN. Kno wat I mean?

What was said of David was said of the FIRST WAYS OF DAVID and not about his LATTER ways. If God approved him as a WORSHIP LEADER then why wouldn't He approve him as an adulterer, murderer and ALL of the sins. God had AMOS reprove David if you have ears.

Psalm 33 is the only INSTRUMENTAL PSALM which does not have some destructive or even hate or superstitious meaning. I have tabulated the Psalms and most are "singing" which was not four part harmony but probably a four note unison chant. Here is the table:

http://www.piney.com/MuArndt.html

NO singer and NO instrumentalists went into the Holy Place. This was typical of the Body of church of Christ with the bread, the menorah or the seven spirits of Christ the branch giving light and the INCENSE altar where we approach God in PERSONAL prayer and go boldly into the Throne Room. This is the ONLY place in a spiritual religion where we WORSHIP one at a time in darkness and quietness like the CLOSET Jesus commanded.

The singers and musicians were SERVING (meaning hard bondage and a word like Abaddon) the priests ONLY. The priests could not have survived the blood, urine, dung, guts, burning flesh and the bleeding TYPES of the innocent Lamb of God without a loud NOISE. Psalm 41 prophesied that Judas would try to musically mock (triumph over) Jesus but Jesus gave him the MARK (sop, like melody) of the SOP and caused him to SELF-DESTRUCT. Music came with Lucifer who IS ZOE and other names. The PRAISE word you love means to MAKE SELF VILE in the belief that God couldn't punish the INSANE or MAD in Corinth. Any time you see people silencing the songs and sermons of God through the Spirit of Christ you MUST be mad to think that you can get away with it when the UNIQUE worship word in the Spiritual kingdom is to GIVE HEED to the word and songs of Christ.

If a SINGER or MUSICIAN or a singy-clappy fellow ventured into the TYPE of the church of Christ he would be instantly executed. Not in the VILEST pagan temples did the MUSICIANS (the harem of the gods) ever enter into the holy precincts where their "gods" were believed to meet the priests. Not even in Jezebel's "church" where homosexuality bound the spirit and flesh together could a modern PRAISE SINGER enter into her temple or "church."

The PEOPLE were quarantined from the Temple when the sounders (not musicians) sounded. They were put OUTSIDE THE COURT. The "people's congregation" assembled as CALLED beginning as the Qahal or "church in the wilderness." Blowing the alarm trumpets and "making a joyful noise before the Lord" was OUTLAWED. That was the Levitical "Musicians" Warrior's chant. It was intended to turn the enemy into COWARDS. I think that this is still the PURPOSE: to silence those not willing to engage in "the idolatry of talent." MUSIC says to Jesus that the Psalms (commanded by Paul) inspired by the SPIRIT OF CHRIST are NOT good enough so WE have to mediate or lead the worshipers into the presence of God. That IS NOT WORSHIP: it is Anti-biblical and Anti-Christian worship found in all ancient pagan worship.

You have 100% of the Bible, church history, the Babylonian literature, the classical writers and denominational founders against you. They were ALL wise enough to be able to COMPREHEND that the words TEACH AND ADMONISH with the "inspired text" was NOT remotely related to even the simple MUSIC of the time. The singing and melody were BOTH understood to be IN THE HEART (remember Paul?). People were convinced that if you cannot COMPOSE a plan of salvation out of your head you assuredly cannot approach God without using the WORDS He supplied us to TEACH and COMMUNE.

What you guys are promoting is NOT CHRISTIANITY which makes DISCIPLES (you know, STUDENTS) and not RITUALISTIC performing artists to perform for the "audience" or even lead the "audience." YOU SIMPLY CANNOT JUSTIFY IT WITHOUT AGREEING WITH THE DLU GUYS AND "TAKE LIBERTIES" AND EVEN LIE ABOUT THE BIBLE.

If MUSIC (not a Biblical concept) doesn't condemn you the MASSIVE and deliberate sowing of discord, breaking up churches, families and bringing on the churches greatest TRIBULATION in the modern world will do it. It is all TRAFFICK which was what Satan tried in heaven and indwelling the Kings of Tyre and Babylon.

Ken

 
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Sacred Cow
(no login)
205.188.209.77

The Return of Moooooey Python

December 30 2003, 12:39 AM 

Ken,
You really shouldn't title your response with such a classic line from a Monty Python movie, you really lose the sense of seriousness after such an intro.

"Now, singy clappy, all you have to do is to prove that David was a WORSHIP LEADER. He was the KING (if you remember the card classes) and with the COMMANDERS of the ARMY organized surplus Levitical Warrior Panic sounders (like surplus Phds) to give glory to the King and to the TEMPLE STATE which was a LIKE THE NATIONS pagan temple."

You tickle me Ken. Prove that David was a WORSHIP LEADER? Shall I fall into such a feeble trap PHARISEE! You have already assumed far too much about me. You assume that I'm ready for or alreay have instruments in my church. I'm not and I don't. However, I don't share in your rediculous notions of instruments being of or from the devil himself. They are not and will not be the demise of the church. They're not of the devil, prove that God hates them, prove anything you say about instruments and stop with the stupid web links to nonsense.

"You have 100% of the Bible, church history, the Babylonian literature, the classical writers and denominational founders against you. They were ALL wise enough to be able to COMPREHEND that the words TEACH AND ADMONISH with the "inspired text" was NOT remotely related to even the simple MUSIC of the time. The singing and melody were BOTH understood to be IN THE HEART (remember Paul?). People were convinced that if you cannot COMPOSE a plan of salvation out of your head you assuredly cannot approach God without using the WORDS He supplied us to TEACH and COMMUNE."

Against me? Which Bible are you reading? The inspired text? Which one was that? Do you remember Paul? How can you quote him and not know him from his own words? You have no intention of teaching anyone material worth learning nor do you have a sense of what it is to commune.

I have asked you again and again to give an alternative to everything mentioned in this wasted space on the internet you call a web domain. Blasphemy you said? "David only LED the congregation of the PEOPLE twice and he got so excited that he went naked with the camp following slave girls. He ROSE UP TO PLAY in the same sense that the Israelites engaged in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. The same word is used of Samson who GROUND in the king's house and that wasn't grinding CORN. Kno wat I mean?"

You sound more like a dirty old man venting his tention, kno wat I mean?

So lets go to LaGard who you know so well. If youth ministers are taking money from honest evangelists and right beside us are pulpit ministers who are no more scriptural than we are, right along with church buildings, and comfortable pews, beautiful lighting, microphones, and yes song leaders, worship leaders what ever, shall I go on...You ask me to prove David was WORSHIP LEADER, I should know he was a KING from the card class right? I suppose card classes were power point presentations in your day right? Were card classes scriptural?

Jesus told them to destroy the temple and that he'd raise it up in three days. His body right?

Then there's your Paul, who you like to quote a bit; he said that our body was the temple right?

He goes on to say, honor God with our body then. Right?

Did they worship in the temple? Was it not a Holy Place? But yet, because of Jesus our body is the temple right? Therefore what Ken? Come on, didn't they teach you this in card classes?

Can I sit here and prove David was a worship leader? Well do you mean the posistion that we've created in our churches? Like communion leaders? In two catagories of course, those who serve and those who preside. Or do you mean was his body a temple and because of that his life was worship, therefore he is a worship leader and he has all the more reason to praise the Lord over and over again - just like you and just like me - are we not all worship leaders or am I just twisting words, proof-texting if you to make it say what I want it to? Uh Oh, what about women, are their bodies temples too? Then are they worship leaders by the way they lead and eximplify God through their temples?

Does your church have a song leader, those who lead in open prayer and do you have communion leaders? Do you have a preacher? Do you worship in church building? How is what you do any safer that what I do? What do you suggest Ken?

Do things change with time? Does worship change with time? You claim it doesn't and shouldn't. Remember: "If a SINGER or MUSICIAN or a singy-clappy fellow ventured into the TYPE of the church of Christ he would be instantly executed. Not in the VILEST pagan temples did the MUSICIANS (the harem of the gods) ever enter into the holy precincts where their "gods" were believed to meet the priests. Not even in Jezebel's "church" where homosexuality bound the spirit and flesh together could a modern PRAISE SINGER enter into her temple or "church.""

I would be instantly executed! Would you not? Probably not, you'd sell your soul for thirty pieces of silver so wouldn't be labled a singy-clappy fellow wouldn't you?

Do you chant in your worship service? Do things change with time? "Any time you see people silencing the songs and sermons of God through the Spirit of Christ you MUST be mad to think that you can get away with it when the UNIQUE worship word in the Spiritual kingdom is to GIVE HEED to the word and songs of Christ."

Do you sing the same songs that were chanted back then? Or do you sing the songs that many other writers besides that of the church of Christ brothers wrote? Is your song book an "only church of Christ song book?" O, song books...are they scriptural?

"MUSIC says to Jesus that the Psalms (commanded by Paul) inspired by the SPIRIT OF CHRIST are NOT good enough so WE have to mediate or lead the worshipers into the presence of God. That IS NOT WORSHIP: it is Anti-biblical and Anti-Christian worship found in all ancient pagan worship."

Where did you get this profound statement? PROVE ANY OF YOUR MATERIAL! You can't!

"What you guys are promoting is NOT CHRISTIANITY which makes DISCIPLES (you know, STUDENTS) and not RITUALISTIC performing artists to perform for the "audience" or even lead the "audience." YOU SIMPLY CANNOT JUSTIFY IT WITHOUT AGREEING WITH THE DLU GUYS AND "TAKE LIBERTIES" AND EVEN LIE ABOUT THE BIBLE."

"If MUSIC (not a Biblical concept) doesn't condemn you the MASSIVE and deliberate sowing of discord, breaking up churches, families and bringing on the churches greatest TRIBULATION in the modern world will do it. It is all TRAFFICK which was what Satan tried in heaven and indwelling the Kings of Tyre and Babylon."

Which guys am I? I am a DLU guy. However the only liar I see is the proof-texting, retired engineer, who is full of condemnation and the kind of discord that is specifically mentioned in our Bible. Music is not a Biblical concept? What part of your worship on Sunday morning is? Is Sunday night a Biblical concept, is Wednesday? Music is no more breaking up churches, and after all the family research I've done for years, it's certainly not breaking up familis - what a stupid comment. Just like we should out law guns because of what happened at Columbine right? Just like we should sue those who manufacture fertilizer becuause it's used in making bombs. You are truly a NUT-CASE. Man I'd love analyze your past, your parents, your family and your current state of mind. You are an incredible case study for research. Forget what I said about counseling, you've missed that opportunity, lets start with medication.

Just curious? Does worship change with time? Do you still sacrafice animals? How many animals were sacraficed in the temple? They were an offering to God right - a part of worship? Were more than 20 animals sacraficed in a day? Surely not. Surely there were church of Christ / Ken Sublet bi-laws that said you were only entitled so many.

Music is not the issue Ken. You have serious chip on your shoulder regarding music. The a drummer steal your first girlfriend. Or were you raised like Pavlov's dogs?

Who was Ivan Pavlov?


Ivan Pavlov was a Russian physiologist that is renowned for his landmark study on conditioning. He conducted this hallmark study during the twentieth century. The interesting thing about this study was the fact that Pavlov was not even studying the effects of conditioning when he launched the study.


He was actually studying the physiological effects of eating in the dogs. He began by studying digestion, but Pavlov began to observe that the salivation of the dogs was very curious. He would place meat powder or some other food morsel on the dog's tongue, waiting for the salivation to occur.


He began to see that the dogs were salivating as soon as he entered the room, which was before any food was even in sight. Since salivation in any animal is a reflex, Pavlov decided to probe deeper into the conditioning of the dogs. This later became known as classical conditioning.



I have heard about Pavlov's dogs. What is so significant about this study?


Pavlov's study is also known as Pavlovian conditioning. This study is one of the most used studies in classical conditioning. Conditioning is a type of learning. Basically, what this study proved was that the dogs became conditioned by Pavlov to have expectations. When he entered the room, the dogs expected food; therefore, they began salivating in expectation. After he noticed that the meat powder had this effect, he decided to try a different neutral stimulus.



What is a neutral stimulus?


A neutral stimulus is something that normally would not produce any salivation. Pavlov chose to ring a bell since ringing a bell would not normally produce salivation in the dogs.


Pavlov began ringing a bell before placing the meat powder or item on the dog's tongue. Each and every time that the bell was rung, meat powder or food was given to the dog. Pavlov repeated these experiments many, many times. Eventually, the bell alone was enough to make the dogs salivate. This proved that a neutral stimulus that elicited no response whatsoever from the dogs before was now causing a response- salivation.


What did this prove?


Pavlov's experiment proved that all animals could be trained or conditioned to expect a consequence on the results of previous experience. For example, a child that is always given a cookie by a particular teacher will begin to expect that cookie every single time that they see the teacher. If the teacher always says the word 'yummy' before giving the cookie, the child will become conditioned to expect the cookie after hearing the word. The children would even begin to salivate at the appearance of the teacher or the word yummy after repeated conditioning.

YOU HAVE BEEN WELL CONDITIONED KEN KEN.

IF YOU WANT TO HAVE KEN SALIVATE JUST RING HIS BELL.

MUSIC. MUSIC. MUSIC.

Sacred Cow Conditioned By Ken Sublet















 
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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.75

Psalm 78

January 26 2004, 11:34 AM 

Now I am sure that you are a preacher: you know, moolah.

n : informal terms for money [syn: shekels, gelt, dough, bread, dinero, lucre, loot, pelf, cabbage, kale]

Mollah \Mol"lah\, n. [Ar. maul[=a], commonly moll[=a]in Turkey.] One of the higher order of Turkish judges; also, a Turkish title of respect for a religious and learned man. [Written also moolah.]

I have picked out Psalm 78 although I could have picked Psalm 106 or Acts 7 which tell the same story. See how Rubel Shelly takes the condemnation and turns it into praise:

http://www.piney.com/WinRSPraise2.html

See also the Exodus as a pattern for worship and community (commune):

http://www.piney.com/WinRSExComm.html

See how Augustine and all lovers of the Bible saw Psalm 106:

http://www.piney.com/FathAugPsa106.html

Now, look at Psalm 78. This is my quick morning exercise just to let you see the whole psalm as THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST gave it to you to warn about musical worship:

http://www.piney.com/Psalm78.html

Remember that Psalms are divided into five books corresponding to the Torah and more. This is a POETIC version of the PROSE HISTORY. We know that the Jews began RECITING (not music) the PROSE history but later began to use the poetic version: poems tend to be poetic so watch out. The purpose was never ritual worship but to TEACH and ADMONISH. Only the Word as it has been delivered conveys the Spirit or Mind of Christ. When you read it it becomes the ORACLE OF GOD. "Talent" is useable ONLY in ministry or service or slavery on behalf of the destitute.

You will also remember that Jesus refused to speak to the Jerusalem "jews" who were infected by the Kenites or Cainites. He said that God had hidden truth by the use of parables FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That might give the Flat Earth Ministry pause. Now, Asaph says:

I will open my mouth in a PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old: Psalm 78:2

Parable does not mean MYTH but a mystery language which can only be grasped in the DARK and SILENT human spirit as it communes with God who IS all or "holy" spirit and WILL NOT DANCE with Jeff Walling and the Thespians who have taken over the temples.

Mashal (h4912) maw-shawl'; appar. from 4910 in some orig. sense of superiority in mental action; prop. a pithy maxim, usually of a metaphorical nature; hence a simile (as an adage, poem, discourse): - byword, like, parable, proverb.

Chiydah (h2420) khee-daw'; from 2330; a puzzle; hence a trick, conundrum, sententious maxim: - dark saying (sentence, speech), hard question, proverb, riddle.

Now, YOU have been suckered by the CONUNDRUM but those OF THE SPIRIT can instantly discern that Asaph was not COMMANDING a ritualistic PRAISE SERVICE. You were SUPPOSED to grasp that the nation of Israel forfeited the grace of God by MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai and for their whole lives. When people want to get your BODY to "worship" they HAVE NOT offered their body on the "altar" to be consumed so that they MAY worship God which happens ONLY in the new PLACE of the human spirit.

A holy spirit

is OUR spirit MADE HOLY only at baptism where we REQUEST A clear conscience or consiousness so that we can understand the deep, spiritual mysteries.

CHURCH of our times INTENDS to keep the truth of the whole Bible from their children because the "Devil made them do it." Here are some clues:

Which we have HEARD and KNOWN, and our fathers have TOLD us. Psalm 78:3

We will NOT hide them from their children,
shewing to the generation to come the praises of the Lord, [Gag! please don't see this as a Thespian worship ritual.]

and his strength,

and his wonderful works that he HATH DONE. Psalm 78:4

PRAISE is NOT singing erotic "songs" telling others about MY WONDERFUL experiences with God: Praise of Billy Bob Bumpkin says: "BBB makes the best hamburger in town."

For he ESTABLISHED a TESTIMONY in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he COMMANDED our fathers,
that they should MAKE THEM KNOWN to their children: Psalm 78:5

"That the generation to come MIGHT KNOW them,
even the children which should be born; who should arise and DECLARE them to their children: Psalm 78:6

If ANY of the BEAST (Zoe) churches had ever even read Psalm 78 and 106 and the account of the Mount Sinai event they WOULD NOT preach it as a PATTERN FOR CHRISTIAN WORSHIP AND COMMUNITY.

God is still HIDING truth by His permissive will in allowing the THESPIANS to do everything in their little pointy heads to KEEP you from ever hearing the story of the Old Testament. I say that you STILL cannot grasp that MUSIC or ritualistic PRAISE SINGING is one of the oldest, pagan, superstitions. In ALL of history the theatrical performers actually want you to believe that they can ASSIST God to keep failure away.

Rubel Shelly and Randy Harris promote the AZTEC PATTERNISM where the 52 year and 52 week JUBILEE prevented the failure of the Gods. Just like Purpose Driven the Aztec slippd in, planted a corn crop, so that when JUBILEE TIME came they could return and do a HOLOCAUST on the OWNERS. So what, they were willing to sacrifice up to 20,000 people during JUBILEE in order to CERTIFY themselves as the GOD SAVERS.

http://www.piney.com/WinAztec.html

Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual songs are NOT the produce of Zoe: they are a record to be TAUGHT to our children. That is why Paul said SPEAK to ONE ANOTHER. The purpose is to TEACH AND ADMONISH one another. History knows that all three forms are THE INSPIRED history frequently written in a poetic form to make LEARNING THE TEXT easier. If YOU could write your POETIC version then YOU could write your PROSE version and that is exactly what Rubel Shelly, Max Lucado etal CLAIM for themselves.

http://www.piney.com/Shelly-York-Narrative.html

Ask your preacher to explain the sequence: The Book of The Covenant, Rising up to PLAY in musical idolatry and The Book of The Law.

Ken Sublett


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 68.154.171.63 on Jan 26, 2004 2:05 PM


 
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John
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192.85.47.1

So is there really nothing out there?

December 16 2003, 8:47 AM 

I'm really looking for some good hard information about what goes on there.

 
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Kevin Hamm
(Login KevinHamm)
ConcernedMembersHillcrest
65.134.164.60

Some helpful links

December 20 2003, 10:41 AM 

John,

You may find these links helpful.

http://www.newleafbooks.org/BOOKS/C/church_flies.html

http://johnyork.faithsite.com/

http://ottercreek.faithsite.com/

The Otter Creek website is unavailable right now, but you might keep trying every now and then.

From their writings you might get an idea of what is going on at Otter Creek.

Kevin


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 68.19.199.216 on Dec 20, 2003 2:54 PM


 
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John
(no login)
192.85.47.1

Otter Creek Website

December 22 2003, 8:14 AM 

The Faithsite one doesn't work for some reason, but www.ottercreek.org does. That has a lot of interesting information. Thanks for the other ones.

 
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Kenneth Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.133

John O. York

December 22 2003, 11:48 AM 

The grumble at lipscombunderground is that being from OTTER CREEK trumps seniority and experience in assigning student leadership roles. John O. Yorks site at:

http://johnyork.faithsite.com/

Reveals the PATTERNISM of many churches of Christ which have the inside track to LIPSCOMB. Steve Flatt was, after all, a founding father of the Jubilee and became one of the members of the latter CORPORATION. Just because they bounce some false teachers who are TOO HOT TO HANDLE does not mean that they will not USE others who are more likely to attract than repel those who claim to still be "faithful." ACU still features Max Lucado.

First, John touts the JESUS PROPOSAL which is from a series of sermons by--Who? Why, by John O. York used by Rubel Shelly, which is TRAFFICKING in the sermons preached for pay--with or without a dispensation from the elders.

John York: "How do I make sense of Jesus going back and forth, back and forth between Galilee and Jerusalem in John's account

...when he NEVER goes to Jerusalem in Matthew, Mark, and Luke until the very end of his ministry?

...But that's NOT the WITNESS, the testimony John wants me to confirm.

What I am called to affirm with the witness

..of MY OWN LIFE is that AUTHENTICATING Spirit-presence

...that REVEALS ITSELF when I keep heaven's commandments here on earth, live the from-above life in my down-below setting.

Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: The Jesus Project:

Here is what God wants churches passionate about:

(1) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, (2) that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

"Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: Paul even uses a JEWISH LEGEND about the water actually following the people around in the desert

..to say that Christ himself was present with those people just like he is with the Corinthians. They were hemmed in on all sides by God and God-activity.

However B.S. (before shelly), Scripture continued to say:

.."And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 1Co.10:4

There is a lot more Otter Creek, Lipscomb, Woodmont Heresy here:

http://www.piney.com/RsJesusProposalI.html

There are three parts but they are all Post-Biblical, Post-modern and Post-Christendom. Everyone should grasp that you cannot MERGE WITH THE WORLD by becomming a UNIVERSITY without betraying your OLD, pre-theft owners. But, how many applauded as they saw the PREACHER FACTORIES being dragged into the woods by the very WOLVES wearing still-wet SHEEP'S SKINS?

Ken Sublett.

 
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Sacred Cow
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68.52.185.199

Moooonight Reading

December 25 2003, 1:44 PM 

Have you even read the Jesus Proposal? Or did the book just give you another reason to hack on those folks again? I'll give you props for at least getting their names right this time. Ken you really need a massage, or some aroma therapy - you seem so tense and stressed in all of your messages. Do you have mad-cow symtoms? You get that from eating your own king you know.
Enjoy the day Ken.

You're Friend
Sacred Cow - ard,

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.120

reading...

December 25 2003, 8:25 PM 

Rubel Shelly and John York "preached" these Bible-distorted messages. However, they claimed that the elders had given them permission to WRITE them on company time and then PUBLISH them. Scribes are linked with Pharisees and the SECTARIAN Hypocrites (singers, speakers, actors for pay) by Jesus.

Now, my little moonbeam reflecting Shelly Light from the ZOE group, in CONTRAST to all of the Slaves of the Watchtowers,I READ the sermons and then just place the straight stick of the Bible alongside the crooked paths of most sermonizers. You cannot HEAR or COMPREHEND in the presence of a confessed "charismatic" preacher. You cannot HEAR and do not PLAN to hear when the logical (spiritual) brain has been CLOSED UP by "music" which tickles all of your PLEASURE PALACES and so HURTS you that your body RUSHES to supply morphine-like endorphins to KILL THE PAIN with enough left over that the MUSICAL MEDIATORS and manipulative speakcers replacing Jesus Christ can sell you the idea that they JACKED YOU UP into the presence of the gods and you had a "knowing" experience with Him. That is Satanic (Luciferian) and VERY superstitious paganism. Sure, the MOST ENLIGHTENED urbans are the FIRST to fall into a totally CRUSHED charismatic brain.

Therefore, I posted a REVIEW of the preached "book" and repudiated the JESUS PROPOSAL long before it was being TRAFFICKED: and lots from all over the world have read them. Remember that Max Lucado confesses to finding a CATCHY THEME. Then, he buys up books on the subject and puts the stuff in a sqirmy way which appeals to those unable to read the truth. The JESUS PROPOSAL will already have had lots of advertising. You, know, like Jubilee promoted by the POPE.

I NEVER review anything which has not been PUBLISHED. I tell the TRUTH and you cannot and will not review my review and refute it without taking Shelly's advice to TAKE LIBERTIES with the old words of Jesus.

Show me a musical or charismatic performance so-called 'WORSHIP' service and I will show you where some of the COW-s of Bashan have promoted the NEW WINESKIN and music to STARVE the people of the WORD as it has been written. Don't depend on me, just read the sermons and you will find that they claim to be POSTMODERN which is post-Biblical and post-Christiandom.

If you love the Living Word you will love the Written Word. And that is why you are putting your trust in people who PUBLISH and sow discord all over the world.

If you think that testing the spirits and refuting what none of the TITHERS or GIVERS of wages can even HEAR in the aura of bigness, is wrong then just too bad, buster.

It is hard for these people to open their mouth without badmouthing "conservatives." The NEW STYLE Jubilee is BUILT ON THE FOUNDATION of JUDGEMENTALLY CREATING A NEW SECTARIANISM which would COLLAPSE without the non-instrumental churches of Christ to CONDEMN to hell. That foundation was laid when the conservative or Bible-based preachers would not ENDORSE Rubel Shelly's false teachings. My suspicion is that it is the most massive, expensive, divisive GET EVEN effort in church history against those who have FIRED the Grace-Centered stable. NO ONE would hire them so they are forced, like Max Lucado in San Antonia, to attempt to become the MOTHER CHURCH of the city. Certainly no Baptist would hire people so anti-Biblical with proven disloyalty for taking a wage to SUBVERT a peacable kingdom. The Disciples will USE the disloyal but they WOULD NOT put them on their RETIREMENT PLAN. After all, Jesus used a word which makes those who repudiate baptism as TREACHEROUS and as INFIDELS.

People who repudiate baptism FOR the remission of sins call God a LIAR. If they feel the NEED to get the tiny circle of PROMOTERS to push their silly books so that we will promote your books then A TINY FEW have the same right to say that IT IS ALL SCHOLARLY nonsense. In the Christian world of ETHICS, the VOCATIONAL teachers trump the GET RICH teachers who KNOW that TRUTH will not TRAFFICK.

It PEDDLES or TRAFFICKS because they know that the masses have been disabled by years of turning the SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE into "theaters for holy entertainment." I am truly sorry but I don't have the time or ability to write 5 second sound bytes for the CRIPPLED LAMBS.

The job of the LOCUSTS (musical performers) and fallen angels is to put ALL of the big church members to sleep so that they CANNOT hear the word. The HEARERS have already been driven out. There is NO MERCY to the LED any more than there is for the BLIND LEADERS. If a person CAN be sucked into this silliness you call "worship" they they are not, in the words of Jesus, OF THE TRUTH. "Believeth nots" are "baptized nots" because they HATE Spiritual truth.

Ken

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.8

P.S.

December 26 2003, 11:49 AM 

I just naturally get TENSE (past, perfect, future) when banditos break in and steal. I remember returning from church in Seattle one Wednesday night and recognizing that I had been burgled, got that tense feeling people describe as being RAPED. When the loving christians stole the church house of widows after I left I got that same FEELING of being raped. Seems the preacher, musicians and mother hen came to Jubilee and the Zoe group and learned how to GRADUALLY lie, cheat and steal to BURGLE a whole church: one of the FIVE out of 13,000 the ZOE or Lucifer group has been able to subvert.

God said something like "getting pregnant on straw

Now, they have hit little Hohenwald and all of a sudden they CANNOT speak the truth about any of the Bible. When people BURGLE the normal advice is to LEAVE rather than to fight. I picked the quietest place on earth to retire and THEY have been on the Jubilee, Purpose Driven and Promise Keeper's MORTAL ATTACK for the duration. Isn't there an end time statement which says that they seek to WEAR OUT THE SAINTS?

I am tense because the STAFF INFECTION has decided, advised by Rubel Shelly, to become LOCATED MISSIONARIES. Lord help us, some churches have hired MISSIONARIES IN RESIDENCE. The LABOR LADEN by the Jewish clergy on the people--used like pack animals--was and is "spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals."

CHURCH is the LARGEST dispenser of spiritual anxiety without which the AUDIENCE would not get suckered by the LAW OF GIVING and of TITHING. That is why CHURCHES are bringing down the wrath of the country on "christiaity."

Isaiah 33:10 Now will I arise," says the LORD."Now will I be exalted; now will I be lifted up.

Isaiah 33:11 You conceive chaff, you give birth to straw; your breath (SPIRIT) is a fire that consumes you.

That is the SPIRIT by which God BAPTIZES MOST while He baptizes a TINY REMNANT with A holy spirit ONLY at water baptism.

Isaiah said: "You get pregnant on chaff and bring forth straw." That eases my tension greatly. When I recognise that the FIRE SPIRIT comes out of the mouths of false teachers I just wait around for the HOLY FIRE the ACU guy and Zoe are calling down.

My mom said that I work so hard to complete every task because I was basically lazy. But, praise the Lord, I don't pay for no MUSICAL MEDIATORS to replace Jesus Christ NO MO, NO MO. That lets me sleep like a baby when I have rushed through the cities and dusted my feet and received my WAGE of being despised by the TRAFFICKERS.

Ken.

 
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Sacred Cow
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205.188.209.77

Tense is an UNDERSTATMENT

December 30 2003, 1:00 AM 

"My mom said that I work so hard to complete every task because I was basically lazy. But, praise the Lord, I don't pay for no MUSICAL MEDIATORS to replace Jesus Christ NO MO, NO MO. That lets me sleep like a baby when I have rushed through the cities and dusted my feet and received my WAGE of being despised by the TRAFFICKERS."

Now I'm beginning to see where your issues originated from.

Like you're rushing through cities dusting your feet. You're lazy remember and retired. So why rush anywhere?

Cry me a river KEN. You're no martyr.

 
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Sacred Cow
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68.53.147.176

Cannot Believe I Missed This Paragraph

January 23 2004, 3:21 PM 

"I just naturally get TENSE (past, perfect, future) when banditos break in and steal. I remember returning from church in Seattle one Wednesday night and recognizing that I had been burgled, got that tense feeling people describe as being RAPED. When the loving christians stole the church house of widows after I left I got that same FEELING of being raped. Seems the preacher, musicians and mother hen came to Jubilee and the Zoe group and learned how to GRADUALLY lie, cheat and steal to BURGLE a whole church: one of the FIVE out of 13,000 the ZOE or Lucifer group has been able to subvert."

The question is this: When will look at yourself in mirror and ask yourself whether or not you've crossed the line?

RAPED? How dare you even use such an analogy. I can't believe women anywhere who have read this material wouldn't let into you! Your "physical house" got broken into and you have the audacity, the boldness, to compare that temporary inconvenience with such an act as RAPE?

YOU CAN NOW RELATE TO THE TENSION PEOPLE FEEL AFTER BEING RAPED?

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND?

That's what I'm talking about Ken you write these things that are so completely tactless and inconsiderate (or just plain thoughtless).

HOW DARE YOU COMBINE DISCUSSION OVER YOUR DISLIKES WITH CHURCH - AND SOME HOW RELATE YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH A THEIF IN YOUR HOME TO THE FEELINGS A RAPE VICTOM HAS - HAVE YOU NO SHAME?

THEN YOU MENTION THE RELATIONSHIP OF GOOD CHRISTIAN PEOPLE WHO WORSHIP DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU DO (WHERE EVER IT IS THAT YOU DO WORSHIP) TO THE LIKES OF LUCIFER AND SOME HOW IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH SUGGEST THAT THEY HAVE RAPED AND BURGLERIZED THE CHURCH!

YOU HAVE SEVERE PROBLEMS KEN SUBLETT AND VERY WARPED MIND. YOU'RE SICK.


 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.81

Missed a lot!

January 24 2004, 2:53 PM 

The NEW STYLE WORSHIP PROMOTERS speak of ENTHUSIASM which means Enthus O mania or the madness of the sexual people who make you believe that they are bringing you into the presence of God.

Others suggest ENRAPTURING the spirit with song and sermon. Look closely and you will find that this means:

Enrapture \En*rap"ture\ (?; 135), v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Enraptured} (?; 135); p. pr. & vb. n. {Enrapturing}.] To transport with pleasure; to delight beyond measure; to ENRAVISH. --Shenstone.

"sat completely still, enraptured by the music"

Rape \Rape\, v. t. To commit rape upon; to ravish.

2: destroy and strip of its possession; "The soldiers raped the beautiful country" [syn: {despoil}, {violate}, {plunder}]

The VINEYARD mother of the NEW STYLE WORSHIP seeks to engage you in a SEXUAL-CLIMATIC "act of worship" with God.

http://www.piney.com/RmHymns.html

"There is no exception" to the rule that MUSICAL "WORSHIP" worked because it peddled the heresy that when you rise up, sing, dance and clap you are acting as the "harem of the gods."

You just wait until I tell you about:

Thespian which has ALWAYS meant Lesbian and is the MAJOR MOVER of "musical worship and drama" in the church and "christian colleges." And just you wait till I connect Thespis with Hypocrites which define a PERFORMING preacher or PHARISEE who claims some superior connection to God or the Word.

Sure, RAPED. If you wonder why a huge exodus occured down here in my little tribal thingy you must grasp that when males begin flinging and singing a cold chill runs up the backs of people and they do one of three drug-induced things caused by MUSIC: They FIGHT, FLEE or FEEL raped and love or flee for their souls.

Watch it when the same misleaders want to take YOUR children to WINTERFEST as the SHOW AND TELL of professional artists getting everyone HIGH enough to BUY by a mass movement which DRIVES the youngsters into the same EFFEMINATE mind in which Chris't Spirit CANNOT LIVE. Sure, you can make a musical or theatrical performance career out of lying about the church of Christ and training the youth to be DELIBERATE SOWERS OF DISCORD.

The same "spirit" which rapes helpless women rapes faithful men and women of the INNOCENCE of a loving church and they KNOW when they have been HAD. "Sorcerers" or theatrical speakers and singers have their place in the lake of fire along with the rapists.

Ken


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 68.154.171.63 on Jan 24, 2004 4:14 PM


 
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Sacred Cow
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205.188.209.77

Too Much Time on Your Hands?

December 30 2003, 12:55 AM 

"I NEVER review anything which has not been PUBLISHED. I tell the TRUTH and you cannot and will not review my review and refute it without taking Shelly's advice to TAKE LIBERTIES with the old words of Jesus."

How arogant. You'd refuted the book long before it was a book?

You don't tell the TRUTH. You tell Ken's Bitter Version of the TRUTH because you feel the world, people, and others close to you have made done-you wrong and haven't appreciated you like they should have.

I did review your review and I will refute it. And I'd take anyone's advice in taking liberties, long before taking your's!

Do you still attend Hohenwald Church of Christ? Are you still shut in? Just curious. How many people did you baptize this past year? I think for Shelly, it was close to 70.

Sacred Cow

 
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ANON
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66.20.107.226

TO SACRED COW...

January 28 2004, 1:15 PM 

I WOULD LIKE TO INFORM YOU MR. SUBLETT HAS NOT ATTENDED THE HOHENWALD CHURCH OF CHRIST, WHERE I ATTEND, FOR PROBABLY 2 OR 3 YEARS. HE HAS NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON, EXCEPT FROM A FEW INSIDERS WHO APPARENTLY ARE INFORMING HIM (THEY HAVE LEFT NOW.) YOU WILL NOTE HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY CURRENT ACTIVITY FOR OUR CONGREGATION, HENCE HE IS BATTLING WOODMONT HILLS AGAIN. MAY THE LORD HAVE MERCY ON HIS SOUL.

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.81

Furthermore...

January 28 2004, 5:33 PM 

Sacred, you should also know that the 340-350 body count when Mr. Sublett left is probably less than 200 today. So, lots of life-long members are NO LONGER THERE either. But, let me tell you something about a small TRIBAL TOWN: no one does NOTHING without everyone knowing about it.

Mr. Sublett saw the crash coming after PK96, "contributed" lots of money to the LOURDEE-eh in the face of STRONG opposition, Saw the CRASH hitting at the end of 97 AFTER the BUILDING PROGRAM as a step in the Purpose Driven Cult was about complete, began my WEB PAGE to fight the same SHELLY-NOSE-BUMPING in Seattle where they "lied, cheated, used the law and stole the church houses of widows." Mr. Sublett pushed a few buttons about PROMISE KEEPERS and the heretical JUBILEE and got the expected response. These relationships are "thicker than the blood of Jesus."

Mr. Sublett began to reach the WORLD in early 1998 and has about 4.5 million page hits (sermon listens) so far. An INSIDER says that my allerting the world to the TRUE misleaders helped EXPOSE' the Atonement-Denying Jubilee where they spent 1/4 million dollars to teach people to RAISE HOLY HANDS. Max Lucado's attempt to WASH AWAY baptism in 1997 (facilitated by Finto and some speaking in tongues) made a few gainsayers admit that THAT'S WHAT HE SAYS, ISN'T IT. Wall-uh, who could have ever doubted it.

Mr. Sublett attended for a time but had to FLEE the hand flinging singing and spit baptizing preaching, go to the foyer, turn off my hearing aids and STILL hear everything quite well. Mrs Sublett gave Mr. Sublett considerable trouble when I said "NOT ONE RED CENT" more. Wall-uh, Mrs Sublett tried to hang on but finally gave up and attended a little white church in the flood plains of my creek and has lived happily ever after. Mrs Sublett NOW feels fleeced and robbed. I was astounded about how deep her self-taught Bible knowledge went.

Mr. Sublett used the internet to PLOT a course for what would happen: Lynn anderson advises about 10 years for the serpent seed to hatch. Right on target, a new preacher HIRED by the Saddle-backed-kid while telling the flock "oh, he is just coordinating."

The little Red Riding Hood didn't tell the OWNERS that he didn't believe in baptism but who are the OWNERS to question the PK, Purpose Driven Cult DOMINANT PASTORS with WOODMONT'S garbage that the MINISTERS are best prepared to be the leaders and the elders are now JUST SHEPHERDS of the STAFF INFECTION? They even called themselves A Family of God, confessed in a sermon that "we are purpose driven" (the purpose became clear when the check cleared) and ERRECTED four Asherah poles which are PHALLIC SYMBOLS but the poles were symbols of FEMININE POWER.

Probably in late 1997 Mr. Sublett got overwhelmed with response from his web pages (200 major topics with over 2,000 research papers or reproduction of ancient documents.) It was not uncommon to get an e-mai reading: "I have to teach a class on Romans 6 in two hours: what do you have?" I have gone into all of the world which has sunlight or batteries while our children are effeminated from the cradle to the grave. Outsiders who move in claim THERE IS A GOAL TO KEEP EVERYONE IGNORANT. That defines A Cave of the Bear Clan. If you want to read about the Cave of Treasures here is how it works. This is one of 36 documents on my site which defines how SATAN used the YOUTH to subvert and pervert holy people with music.

http://www.piney.com/ApocCave.html

Mr. Sublett discovered that doing church is doing CIRCE or KIRKE meaning the holy whore of John's Patmos in MOST churches of Christ which have been Lucadoed or Shellited. Mr. Sublett discovered, further, that the TITHE repudiates Jesus Christ and the LAW OF GIVING is a Satanic lie when you cannot trust people. That is why Paul put about four pairs of hands on the BAG as it went to the DESTITUTES. There is no Act of Singing: Paul said TEACH with the WORD because external singing just ment reciting and external MELODY speaks of the bo of Apollo (Abaddon, Apollon) and his muses and the arrows shoot what the MUSES inspire.

Mr. Sublett learned that Jesus promised to be in the midst of TWO OR THREE gathered (synagogued) in HIS name where HE is the teacher. The "NOTHING BUT WORSHIP" coming out of Shelly and ZOE (the mother of the gods) is the prophesied-end time BABYLON WHORE (Rev 18).

Jesus WON'T be in the midst of two or three thousand gathered in the name of some CHARISMATIC MAN pumped up with MUSICA. Neither will I and most of the mature owners DRIVEN OUT by an unholy smell.

In the meantime, Ken doesn't e-mai, call, meet or stir up: the GUILTY PARTY always blames the victim for falling when shot. But, Mr. Sublett KNOWS more than the SHADOW DO. Don't forget it.

You will have to look at my web pages.


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 68.19.217.21 on Jan 28, 2004 5:51 PM


 
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Phil
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167.219.0.146

About those page hits

January 29 2004, 8:55 AM 

Ken, you said this:

"Mr. Sublett began to reach the WORLD in early 1998 and has about 4.5 million page hits (sermon listens) so far."

I'd be curious as to how many of those are repeat hits. I think you get a big one-off factor. People come here or piney.com and only see it once, then leave, never to return.

I also wouldn't assume that just because people come here that they agree or even want to agree with you. I come here a couple of times a day just to see what you or Donnie Cruz are going to say, much the same reason that some people listen to Howard Stern.

I'm a member at Otter Creek as well and have directed several people here to view what you've said, just to see what the other side of the issue says.

Just another alternate perspective.

 
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What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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