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Does anyone know how Kirk Nofsinger is associated with this movement/org

May 5 2005, 4:04 PM 

Does anyone know how Kirk Nofsinger (of the DFW area) is associated with this movement/org (ACU class of '77 -ex-Hilltop member at ACU)? He and I were good friends (dating back to York College days - class '73-'74) and I am concerned for him. See article

Content of article: Wednesday, October 27, 2004
Here's another picture from the weekend that my buddy, Kirk Nofsinger, took as the parade was coming to an end. Thanks, Kirk!!

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Re: Does anyone know how Kirk Nofsinger is associated with this movement/org

May 5 2005, 7:06 PM 


For goodness sake, don't take 2nd or 3rd hand information. If you know the guy, find him and ask him. And if he is involved, ask him why and what he thinks about it.

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Re:Re: Does anyone know how Kirk Nofsinger is associated with this movement/org

June 1 2005, 4:38 PM 

I would, but I have lost touch with him and have no way to touch base...

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An Otter Creek Member
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Preaching at OC

July 13 2005, 5:34 PM 

Hey, everyone!

Tim is preaching an incredible series this summer in the Gospel of John. Sunday's message was great!

If anyone wants to stop by for a visit, check out for directions. Service times are at 8:30am and 10:00am. We've got some great Sunday School classes going on during those times, as well.

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Ken Sublett
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July 15 2005, 12:16 PM 


Let me digress a bit: the real evil troublers within the church at this moment in time make their case that churches of Christ are based on TRADITIONALISM. They are especially sharp pointed in saying that NOT using special music or instruments is JUST YOUR TRADITIONS. This implies that the non-instrumental churches just INVENTED not using instruments to make trouble for others. Of course you have two situations: One is that they are terminally ignorant of a Bible and secular history associating music with Satan and evil religious institutions, or TWO: they are terminally evil and just don't care what the Bible says.

This, among many groups, seems to afflict the city churches or hicks who think that they are big time more than small and rural congregations. It can be an actual fact that at the intersection of Broad and Way you can have four community churches all trying to suck up the wandering sheep.

However, those who build a pagan-like mega temple and a pyramidal structure of "ministries" and hired ministers to make sure that YOU are kept busy all of your waking hours, DO NOT want to confess the TRADITIONS which makes their systems possible.

You can be a faithful church and finance the required functions and send out evangelists without a cult mind control system. However, you cannot operate those "theaters for holy entertainment" with thousands of "members" without some pretty evil violation of the Letter and Spirit of the New Testament.

One of those is a Located Preacher who has advanced to Senior Minister or Senior Pastor with the vocational deacons or "ministers" replaced by their buddies with a huge salary making the "organism" into an "organization."

Paul agreed that evangelists are worthy of their hire. However, all of the examples he used are the OPPOSITE of pompous professionals.

ALL of church history agrees that the "located priest" as performance preacher was a very early heresy.

Rubel Shelly defends the Located Missionary--meaning something like "located evangelist" meaning something like a "located Paul Revere."

The second "traditionalism" which they wink at is the Law of Giving. This is founded on a proof-text basis but it is DONE SO because they WANT THE MONEY. In my memory giving was a joy because you had "ownership" in the programs without which you are not a body of Christ.
    Beginning: Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 1 Cor 16:2 Ending
Now, this is not a church of Christ thingy. They all do it in one way or another and of course if it has no Biblical authority it is traditionalism. If you make it a Law of Giving then it becomes legalism.
    NOW concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 1 Cor 16:1
We know that Corinth had VOLUNTEERED so Paul is not establishing a law but establishing an order by which the gift would be collected BEFORE he got there.
    Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 1 Cor 16:2
I won't go into it here but in 2 Corinthians 8 and 9 Paul denies that it is a COMMAND. He also makes it clear that the collection should be made before he arrived because the pressure of his presence would be like extortion. Now, what can we say of those "churches" right now hiring a HUCKSTER to try to bleed the congregation to death so that they can build a BIGGER BARN?
    And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality [charis or grace] unto Jerusalem. 1 Cor 16:3
There is word definitions, examples in the classics and almost universal agreement that LAY BY HIMSELF meant just that: it did not mean in a collection plate because that would expose the money which Paul wanted protected by a GROUP of people who would, in a sense, grasp the bag in all of their hands and watch it like a hawk until it got to the elders to dispense to those suffering a FAMINE. So, no one in Corinth or the elders in Judea held OWNERSHIP of the money.

So, there is NO LAW OF GIVING. We owe those who sent out spiritual things and are now destitute. In church history we have actual examples which never mandated PROPORTIONAL GIVING where, they say locally, that a welfare lady should tithe. Rather, the understanding that when they assembled they did a check and identified the POOR which means DESTITUTE like prowling the garbage cans.

Those who PROSPERED gave free will to those who were DESTITUTE. That means:

All for the DESTITUTE but not one widow's mite for the INSTITUTE as a LAW.

Those who lay a guilt trip on you and have a dominant, non-participating body have all of the IMPORTANT marks of a cult. You are WORSE than an infidel if you give to those which no claim and deprive your own livelihood. You don't have the RIGHT to be a sacrificial giver if you have a family to support.

The THIRD bit of traditionalism which has been HONED TO PERFECTION is the use of any kind of complex harmony (organic instruments) or mechanical instruments. They WILL NOT give that up because all of history proves that they NEED it to keep their tottering tower of Babel and babbling from falling over. They have all of the Bible and most of church history declaring that it is a DESTRUCTIVE tradition and "musical praise with with or without instruments" is one of the oldest, most ignorant and most legalistic superstitions. This was the belief that you could make SPIRITUAL CHANGES with music and you could AID the gods to help prevent them from failing.

The FOURTH traditionalism is what fueled the Temple and the cathedrals: they were seen as TOOLS OF EVANGELISM. We don't need a command to get in out of the rain and snow but the trend has been to put most of the money into a THEATER because they see worship as something PERFORMED for the people.
    Nay, rather, to speak out more truly, the augurs, the dream interpreters, the SOOTHSAYERS, the prophets, and the PRIESTLINGS, ever vain, have devised these fables; for they,

      fearing that their own arts be brought to nought, and
      that they may extort but scanty contributions from the devotees,

    now few and infrequent, whenever they have found you to be willing that their craft should come into disrepute, cry aloud, the Gods are neglected, and

      in the temples there is now a very thin attendance. For ceremonies are exposed to derision, and the time-
      honoured rites of institutions once sacred have sunk before the superstitions of new religions.

    And men--a senseless race--being unable, from their inborn blindness, to see even that which is placed in open light,

    dare to assert in their frenzy
    what you in your sane mind do not blush to believe.
    (Arnobius Against the Heathen, Ante-Nicene Fathers, VI, p. 418).

When they do the surveys and put you under FUND RAISING PRESSURE just tell them that JESUS PAID IT ALL and not one widow's mite TO YOU I OWE. They will truly take away your child's health care money to fund the Towers of Babbling.

Spread the word: Let the LIBERTY BELL RING OUT.

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July 18 2005, 3:55 PM 

What does this have to do with Otter Creek or the Zoe Group?

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Ken Sublett
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Haven't U herd

July 18 2005, 5:24 PM 

Looks like another one in the CLUSTER.

I think that the message needs to go out to these poor souls that building BIGGER BARNS is not the plan. Furthermore, they need to be informed that there is NO LAW OF TITHING, NO LAW OF GIVING and the LAW OF PLEDGING that which you DO NOT HAVE is ANTI-BIBLICAL.

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i pray for you ken

July 20 2005, 11:15 AM 

i can't argue with you because you think you know everything, but just reading this website makes me very sad for you. i hope that you will one day attempt to unite the body of christ instead of trying to pick it apart and always be right.

today, i pray for you ken.

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July 20 2005, 1:59 PM 

What this is really about is judging a church without actually being a part of it.

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oh really

August 2 2005, 6:49 PM 

if that's the case then i'm gonna go cut out the books of first and second corinthians and the first few pages of revelation, o.k. w/ you ?

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Whatever you want...

August 3 2005, 8:30 AM 

Except that Paul had founded the church in Corinth and it was Jesus making the judgment on the churches in Revelation, so your argument doesn't really hold water in this case.

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August 4 2005, 7:17 PM 

Funny, I thought it was Jesus who established churches. So it was actually Paul? I thought Peter was the first Pope. And just how many years had transpired since Paul had attended any of their services there at Corinth? Is he like our elders, Once an elder ALWAYS an elder ///Once a member ALWAYS a member? Who's argument doesn't hold up???

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Ken Sublett
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Look to the Hills?

August 16 2005, 10:23 PM 

Matthew 23 has Jesus identifying the sectarian HYPOCRITES (performers) by quoting Isaiah and Ezekiel. Ezekiel makes it clear that the HYPOCRITES were people who had a BEAUTIFUL VOICE (sexual) and could play well on instruments. The message is that it was always the MARK of people who tried to silence the voice of God .

The question in Scripture: "Shall we look TO THE HILLS" meaning NO we shall look to Jehovah and not the gods of the hills. Therefore God left us a MARK to identify false agents of the wrong "gods."

Euripides defined the Bacchae which was the perverted Abomination of Desolation in the Temple in Jerusalem. The Jews hoped that Bacchus or Dionysus (the new wineskin god) would be the messiah. The clergy PIPED hoping that Jesus and the disciples would SING and DANCE the perverted Dionysus shuffle. Therefore, if we want to understand where Jesus is POINTING in parables to fool the fools we have to look the to the meaning of an always perverted priesthood.


To the HILLS! TO THE HILLS! fleet hounds [perverted priests] of madness, where the daughters of Cadmus hold their revels,
    goad them into wild fury [singing and clapping]

    against the MAN disguised in woman's dress, a frenzied spy upon the Maenads.
First shall his mother MARK him as he peers from some smooth rock or riven tree, and thus to the Maenads she will call, "Who is this of Cadmus' sons comes hasting to the mount, to the mountain away, to spy on us, my Bacchanals? Whose child can he be? For he was never born of woman's blood; but from some lioness maybe or Libyan Gorgon is he sprung." Let justice appear and show herself, sword in hand, to plunge it through and through the throat of the godless, lawless, impious son of Echion, earth's monstrous child!

who with wicked heart and lawless rage, with mad intent and frantic purpose,
    sets out to meddle with thy holy rites, and with thy mother's, Bacchic god, thinking with his weak arm to master might as masterless as thine.

    This is the life that saves all pain, if a man confine his thoughts to human themes, as is his mortal nature, making no pretence where heaven is concerned.
I envy not deep subtleties; far other joys have I, in tracking out great truths writ clear from all eternity, that a man should live his life by day and night in purity and holiness, striving toward a noble goal, and should honour the gods by casting from him each ordinance that lies outside the pale of right.
    Let justice show herself, advancing sword in hand to plunge it through and through the throat of Echion's son, that godless, lawless, and abandoned child of earth!
Appear, O Bacchus, to our eyes as a BULL or SERPENT with a hundred heads, or take the shape of a lion breathing flame! Oh! come, and with a mocking smile cast the deadly noose about the hunter of thy Bacchanals, e'en as he swoops upon the Maenads gathered yonder.


Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help. Psalm 22:11

Many BULLS have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round. Psalm 22:12



O house, so prosperous once through Hellas long ago, home of the old Sidonian prince,
    who sowed the SERPENT'S crop of earth-born men,

    how do I mourn thee! slave though I be, yet still the sorrows of his master touch a good slave's heart.

Ye SERPENTS, ye generation of VIPERS, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Matt 23:33
    Jesus' Term: Ophis seed of Echidna

    Euripides's Term: DRAKONTOS seed of OPHIS

How now? Hast thou fresh tidings of the Bacchantes
    The BACCHANTES are Bakchê , hê,

    A. Bacchante, A.Eu.25, S.Ant.1122 (lyr.), Ar.Nu.605, Pl. Ion534a, etc.: generally, Bakchê Haidou frantic handmaid of Hades, E.Hec.1077; b. nekuôn Id.Ph.1489 (lyr.).

    mainas , ados, hê, ( [mainomai] )

    A. RAVING, frantic, lussa v. l. in S.Fr.941.4; bakchê E.Ba.915 .

    2. as Subst., MAD WOMEN, [at Corinth] esp. Bacchante, Maenad, mainadi isê Il.22.460 , cf. h.Cer.386, A.Fr.382, S.OT212 (lyr.), etc.; of the Furies, A.Eu.500 (lyr.); of Cassandra, E.Tr. 173 (lyr.).

    3. = pornê, Poll.7.203 cod. A, Hdn.Epim.83.

    porn-ê, hê, A. harlot, prostitute, Archil.142, Ar.Ach.527, etc. (Prob.from pernêmi, because Greek prostitutes were commonly bought slaves.)

The LOOK TO THE HILLS and the BACCHUS or MAD WOMEN (in Corinth) scheme points directly to the MOCKING of Jesus by the SEED OF THE SERPENT which Jesus treated as literally true.


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Ken Sublett
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Look to the Hills

October 10 2005, 9:32 AM 

Haven't seen any stats on Look to the Hills' Gods this year? Anyone want to report?

I see the old Platonic Fallacy was discussed justifying the ARTS in worship. This is not pretty but I may post some data.

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Re: Look to the Hills

October 11 2005, 6:59 AM 

The conference was full. Signup had to be cut off at 1200

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Should Otter Creek even be a Church of Christ anymore?

November 22 2005, 8:39 AM 

I saw this article in the Nashville Tennessean newspaper yesterday.

Worshippers show gratitude for diversity

Separate churches raise same songs of thanksgiving in Ryman service

Staff Writer

A joyful noise rose through the Ryman Auditorium last night, as two distinctively different choirs melded into one.

In a pre-Thanksgiving service designed to bring congregations from different denominations, cultures and backgrounds together, a Baptist minister shared the microphone with a Nazarene minister, and a Church of Christ choir and a Baptist choir sang together.

And worshippers embraced the mixed service and congregation.

"A Christian is a Christian, it doesn't matter if you are black or white," said Pleasant Green Missionary Baptist Church member Dominique Haywood, 37. "Some people are going to be excluded from heaven. It won't matter if you are black or white."

The event, "Thankful We Stand," was a collaboration between TheOperation Andrew Group, a nondenominational outreach association that partners with churches from varying denominations, and the YMCA of Middle Tennessee. Both organizations want to erode racial barriers and foster greater diversity among congregations, organizers said.

"We tend to live in our comfort areas — black, white, Hispanic," said OAG president Charles E. McGowan. "We can walk away from this feeling how big God's church is and give expression to our unity."

The diversity was apparent throughout the service as young and old, black, white, Hispanic and Asian and even the hearing-impaired all praised God together.

As the two choirs from Otter Creek Church of Christ on Granny White Pike and Temple Baptist Church of King's Lane sang together, worshippers sang along or raised their hands to the heavens.

Jeanie Weems, 29, of Bellevue and a member of Otter Creek Church of Christ, said the interdenominational experience was the way things should be.

"It will help us grow in the future. It is a blessing to be around people who do things differently from the way we have done them," she said.

OAG was founded five years agoand has since teamed up with the YMCA of Middle Tennessee to promote interdenominational diversity and National Prayer Day.

Organizers believe the event's 800-plus attendance showed an interest in the community for diverse worship services. They said they plan to organize a similar service next year.

Phil Newman, vice president of communications for the YMCA of Middle Tennessee said the religious program married well with what the Christian organization tries to exemplify.

The Rev. Frank Lewis, of First Baptist Church of Nashville downtown, said the fellowship of worship should automatically bring believers together.

"God is using the churches to spread his love. Don't focus on what divides us," Lewis said. "Focus on the things that unite us."

Otter Creek has a choir? Fellowships other denominations? Why do they get to say they are a Church of Christ?

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R. R.
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Welcome to the new paradigm

November 22 2005, 2:52 PM 

This is what a few rogue church leaders think the future should look like for our fellowship. Did you happen to see the other article (front page of Tennessean, last week) where the Baptist are withdrawing their conference's support from their former univerity, Belmont.) You can't help but wonder if there will be a similiar report about Lipscomb in the coming years as this 'new' Church of Christ emerges?

This is what tolerance at all cost looks like, brother.

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They are wrong!

November 22 2005, 4:44 PM 

I read today that Otter Creek is fellowshipping other churches! Do they not know that this is like having sex with temple prostitutes? They are engaging in sexual acts with Molech and deserve to die a painful death! Death to all who go to otter Creek! Isn't that right Ken, they are whores of the church, blah, blah, blah! Whores and sluts. Church of Christ or hell!

Hey dude,
Talked with Jesus and he is still forgiving people! You are in luck. Hope to see you in heaven with the baptist, presby's, methodist, and muslims!


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Nation or Denomi-nations

November 28 2005, 7:58 PM 

Nothing says brotherly love quite like sarcasm.

I don't think the issue is as much the fellowshipping of denominations as much as it is trying to become like them. Was anyone there that evening at the Ryman to tell us how many songs were sung vocal-only?

This gathering featuring a Church-of-Christ Choir (can you spell O X Y M O R O N) sounds a lot like Israel near the end of Samuel's life when the people said "We want a king like the nations around us." Just make a couple of very minor changes and you get "We want to sing like the denominations around us." Coincidental or prophetic?!

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For Jack, Nov. 22

November 29 2005, 10:46 AM 

Jack if you think a C of C Choir is an unusual idea you need to visit the Otter Creek building on any Thursday night whenever Lipscomb U. is in session from about 8:30 to 10:00 pm. You'll get to hear a real live Church of Christ instrumental praise band, complete with drums, electric piano and guitars comprised mostly of musicians from Lipscomb. Do you know any other of our congregations offering its teens such a novel worship experience? Maybe there's a Methodist acappella equivalent service being offered out there somewhere.

Like I say, the Choir is only the tip of the iceberg.

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